Thats right, I just want to make it clear, I previously stated in a thread about 2 weeks back that Aion would by my last mmorpg ever. I promised this to freinds and family. That this would be the last mmorpg game I start or play. I still only play to play / start 1 mmorpg no matter what but It wont be Aion.

Unlike the majority of people who do not like aion and come here just to flame and troll I actually have something logical and coherent points to bring up. 

First of all I would like to get something out of the way. I was and still am for the most part a huge colossal Aion fan. I have a  poster of Aion which I got in Comic-Con last year in the Ncsoft booth. I had reserved two copies of the limited Edition version of Aion, I had began working with a friend on an Aion fan site in december of 2008, as well as with a online gaming community to join a legion all together as soon as Aion was released. I have been a member of Aion source site since early 2007. I have been eargerly waiting for Aion since 2007.  You could say I am about as big as a Aion fan could get...or was.

Im not going to sit here and say Aion is a bad game for this feature of FORCED open world PvP in order to progress, because it is not. It is still a great game that incorporates something totally original and unique into its game play that will be a huge draw to some players, but in my opinion it will be an even bigger barrier to get PvE oriented players, which many games have shown make up the majority of mmorpgs.

It is something different made for those players who want something like this.  Originally I was under the impression that Aion was a game that would cater to many different types of play styles. I have recently learned that this is not true at all. Aion is by far not catering to the PvE player. To progress in any meaningful way shape or form you will need to level, and as you level areas become open PK with you having no say in it. Most of the meaningful progressive quests in the game are in an area called the abyss which is also open PK.  The game does not provide a real in game choice for players who do not want to PvP to progress, it is built with PvP as a main point in progressing in mind.

I am happy about this at the same time I am very disillusioned.  I am happy for those players who finally get a game that has a good mix of PvE and PvP where they don't  just make PvP a back seat to PvE, and at the same time PvP incorporates a huge sum of a great storyline. This is amazing for those players who were waiting for something like this. I am sure a lot of people will be very happy to know that Aion is that game where PvP can actually help you progress as much if not more than PvE in story, lore, as well as gear.

To me this system just does not work well. I do not find any enjoyment at all in ruining another players gaming experience for my own humor, nor do I appreciate it when others do the same to me. I play games to have fun, not to be frustrated.

I hope that everyone here really enjoys Aion because it is an amazing game with great potential for its intended audience. In my China, and US beta weeks I have experienced things in Aion that no other mmorpg has even come close to acomplishing. Immersion unlike any I have ever seen, amazing storytelling and much more.

To a Long term PvE veteran like myself though Aion has been my biggest let down in gaming. In 15 years of gaming I have never felt as empty and disillusioned with any game as I do with Aion. It is not because of what it is not, it is not because I think the game is bad, its just the fact the game forces players to play the game in such a way that I know very well I do not enjoy.

As I stated in the beginning of my post, I had previously stated this would be the last EVER mmorpg game I buy and stick with, Well, I had been looking forward to it for 3+ years, I had worked on a fan site for it, I had joined the largest US community of Aion, I was already in a pre determined Legion community.... If all of that does not prove that I was a devoted Aion enthusiast I don't know what will. I just wish Aion gave me the option to enjoy the game the way I want to enjoy it, not force me into a pre determined play style that I despise.   An even bigger shocker is that I had no idea Aion was going to be a PvP based game until recently, I can't believe that in all those years of looking into Aion and in all those hours I spent on the beta testings, I never bothered to ask how the PvP would be until recently.  Guess a lot of that is really my own fault too :)

Well, I too am not a big PvP fan but I think I will wait and see how it all turns out but they do say fairly up front that it is a PvPvE game so I don't think anyone has deliberately mislead you about this.

Thanks for an obviously heart-felt post.

No PvP game will be for everyone, and I hope you find what you're looking for someday!

Ive seen posts that say just the opposite. That its going to be a carebear pve game so im not sure. From  what ive been reading it is possible to pve to level cap but ive only played to level 12 so i really dont know.

i recall your post 2 weeks ago, and I said it then, you seem too emotionally invested in MMO's so perhaps its better if you quit now.

You don't vow to people that you're going to play or not play a game, you just do or you don't.

All PVE games are really out of fashion atm, so it might be a while until the wheel swings around again and someone makes a pure PVE game.

Been reading some posts about pvp on Aionsource and with patch 1.5 there is supposed to be a lot of pve content introduced. Sounds to me like it will contain both play styles and its my opinion if it wants to be successful it will. 

You know, there are instances if you truly cant stand being ganked once a day or so.

Aion is about as carebear as it gets for a P2P mmorpg. Maybe you should try free realms, http://www.freerealms.com/whatIsFreeRealms.vm

First of all you should not tell others they cannot have an opinion then go on to say yours is MORE constructive.That is a biased opinion right there.Even so,i do agree with you on the fact that forced PVP does not work,but not just in AION...ANY  mmorpg game for that matter.

People do not like aspects of games for a reason,because they believe it is a bad idea,at least for themselves.This of course does not mean it is bad for everyone.As for myself,when i bring up a flaw in a game, i do so because i feel it is a bad idea for the MAJORITY not just myself or a select few.A game can only exist when the majority of players are really happy with the game.PVP is one example that would most likely ruin a game experience for close to 50% of the players,even if they new there was PVP before they entered the game.

However on your post about PVP,this is one HUGE aspect i have eluded to in MANY posts,not even related to AION.

I have stated OVER AND OVER PVP does "NOT" work in ANY MMORPG.As soon as you bring PVP into the mix ,it is no longer a MMORPG,it is a FPS.You can NOT have the "role play" aspect in the game when someone else gets to determine what you do or do not do in the game,it does NOT match or mix.

I am glad that the OP at least comes out and states PVP is a fail,because many others wil lturn to cheating or finding other means to protect themselves from constant death.By letting the developers know and the "other" players know it is not something that works,we may get MMORPG's back to where they belong...as PVE games.

FFXI did it the right way,it made a totally PVE MMORPG,but still had a VERY good PVP system in place for those that agreed to do it.As was witnessed,VERY few took part in the PVP aspect,even though it was a very well setup system and was a fair system to boot.Maybe that is the problem with players today,they do not want PVP to be organized and fair,they want to be able to cheat or find an edge to give them the no risk reward.

PvP makes a mmorpg a FPS? I want w/e you're smoking!

PvP is what makes a game fun to me, AI is the same thing over and over when players are randomish...

Originally posted by Wizardry

First of all you should not tell others they cannot have an opinion then go on to say yours is MORE constructive.That is a biased opinion right there.Even so,i do agree with you on the fact that forced PVP does not work,but not just in AION...ANY  mmorpg game for that matter.

People do not like aspects of games for a reason,because they believe it is a bad idea,at least for themselves.This of course does not mean it is bad for everyone.As for myself,when i bring up a flaw in a game, i do so because i feel it is a bad idea for the MAJORITY not just myself or a select few.A game can only exist when the majority of players are really happy with the game.PVP is one example that would most likely ruin a game experience for close to 50% of the players,even if they new there was PVP before they entered the game.

However on your post about PVP,this is one HUGE aspect i have eluded to in MANY posts,not even related to AION.

I have stated OVER AND OVER PVP does "NOT" work in ANY MMORPG.As soon as you bring PVP into the mix ,it is no longer a MMORPG,it is a FPS.You can NOT have the "role play" aspect in the game when someone else gets to determine what you do or do not do in the game,it does NOT match or mix.

I am glad that the OP at least comes out and states PVP is a fail,because many others wil lturn to cheating or finding other means to protect themselves from constant death.By letting the developers know and the "other" players know it is not something that works,we may get MMORPG's back to where they belong...as PVE games.

FFXI did it the right way,it made a totally PVE MMORPG,but still had a VERY good PVP system in place for those that agreed to do it.As was witnessed,VERY few took part in the PVP aspect,even though it was a very well setup system and was a fair system to boot.Maybe that is the problem with players today,they do not want PVP to be organized and fair,they want to be able to cheat or find an edge to give them the no risk reward.

Yes i agree that forced PVP will not work in NA. I enjoy some PVP now and then but at the end of the day if the game is lacking in PVE elements it will be the first such game to succeed in the west.

I believe that the only game that has successfully concentrated on both pve and pvp is Guild Wars.    There is no need whatsoever to pvp if you do not want to.  Conversely, there is no need to pve if  you don't want to.  And, the pvp is not open world/full loot.  I believe the term is arena pvp of a variety of sorts (4 v4 random, 4 v 4 team, 8 v 8 Hall of Heroes, 8 v 8 guild v guild, and the never-ending battle between the Kurzicks and the Luxons on the Factions continent.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Wizardry

First of all you should not tell others they cannot have an opinion then go on to say yours is MORE constructive.That is a biased opinion right there.Even so,i do agree with you on the fact that forced PVP does not work,but not just in AION...ANY  mmorpg game for that matter.

People do not like aspects of games for a reason,because they believe it is a bad idea,at least for themselves.This of course does not mean it is bad for everyone.As for myself,when i bring up a flaw in a game, i do so because i feel it is a bad idea for the MAJORITY not just myself or a select few.A game can only exist when the majority of players are really happy with the game.PVP is one example that would most likely ruin a game experience for close to 50% of the players,even if they new there was PVP before they entered the game.

However on your post about PVP,this is one HUGE aspect i have eluded to in MANY posts,not even related to AION.

I have stated OVER AND OVER PVP does "NOT" work in ANY MMORPG.As soon as you bring PVP into the mix ,it is no longer a MMORPG,it is a FPS.You can NOT have the "role play" aspect in the game when someone else gets to determine what you do or do not do in the game,it does NOT match or mix.

I am glad that the OP at least comes out and states PVP is a fail,because many others wil lturn to cheating or finding other means to protect themselves from constant death.By letting the developers know and the "other" players know it is not something that works,we may get MMORPG's back to where they belong...as PVE games.

FFXI did it the right way,it made a totally PVE MMORPG,but still had a VERY good PVP system in place for those that agreed to do it.As was witnessed,VERY few took part in the PVP aspect,even though it was a very well setup system and was a fair system to boot.Maybe that is the problem with players today,they do not want PVP to be organized and fair,they want to be able to cheat or find an edge to give them the no risk reward.

Yes i agree that forced PVP will not work in NA. I enjoy some PVP now and then but at the end of the day if the game is lacking in PVE elements it will be the first such game to succeed in the west.

Why do I feel you're saying that because the game isn't 100% PvE oriented?

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Wizardry

First of all you should not tell others they cannot have an opinion then go on to say yours is MORE constructive.That is a biased opinion right there.Even so,i do agree with you on the fact that forced PVP does not work,but not just in AION...ANY  mmorpg game for that matter.

People do not like aspects of games for a reason,because they believe it is a bad idea,at least for themselves.This of course does not mean it is bad for everyone.As for myself,when i bring up a flaw in a game, i do so because i feel it is a bad idea for the MAJORITY not just myself or a select few.A game can only exist when the majority of players are really happy with the game.PVP is one example that would most likely ruin a game experience for close to 50% of the players,even if they new there was PVP before they entered the game.

However on your post about PVP,this is one HUGE aspect i have eluded to in MANY posts,not even related to AION.

I have stated OVER AND OVER PVP does "NOT" work in ANY MMORPG.As soon as you bring PVP into the mix ,it is no longer a MMORPG,it is a FPS.You can NOT have the "role play" aspect in the game when someone else gets to determine what you do or do not do in the game,it does NOT match or mix.

I am glad that the OP at least comes out and states PVP is a fail,because many others wil lturn to cheating or finding other means to protect themselves from constant death.By letting the developers know and the "other" players know it is not something that works,we may get MMORPG's back to where they belong...as PVE games.

FFXI did it the right way,it made a totally PVE MMORPG,but still had a VERY good PVP system in place for those that agreed to do it.As was witnessed,VERY few took part in the PVP aspect,even though it was a very well setup system and was a fair system to boot.Maybe that is the problem with players today,they do not want PVP to be organized and fair,they want to be able to cheat or find an edge to give them the no risk reward.

Yes i agree that forced PVP will not work in NA. I enjoy some PVP now and then but at the end of the day if the game is lacking in PVE elements it will be the first such game to succeed in the west.

 

Why do I feel you're saying that because the game isn't 100% PvE oriented?

I have no idea. I played Warhammer and enjoyed the PVP until i found that its all it had to offer. I also did quite a bit of PVP in WOW but enjoyed the PVE as well. But believe what you will, if its forced PVP it will not do well here. 

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Wizardry

First of all you should not tell others they cannot have an opinion then go on to say yours is MORE constructive.That is a biased opinion right there.Even so,i do agree with you on the fact that forced PVP does not work,but not just in AION...ANY  mmorpg game for that matter.

People do not like aspects of games for a reason,because they believe it is a bad idea,at least for themselves.This of course does not mean it is bad for everyone.As for myself,when i bring up a flaw in a game, i do so because i feel it is a bad idea for the MAJORITY not just myself or a select few.A game can only exist when the majority of players are really happy with the game.PVP is one example that would most likely ruin a game experience for close to 50% of the players,even if they new there was PVP before they entered the game.

However on your post about PVP,this is one HUGE aspect i have eluded to in MANY posts,not even related to AION.

I have stated OVER AND OVER PVP does "NOT" work in ANY MMORPG.As soon as you bring PVP into the mix ,it is no longer a MMORPG,it is a FPS.You can NOT have the "role play" aspect in the game when someone else gets to determine what you do or do not do in the game,it does NOT match or mix.

I am glad that the OP at least comes out and states PVP is a fail,because many others wil lturn to cheating or finding other means to protect themselves from constant death.By letting the developers know and the "other" players know it is not something that works,we may get MMORPG's back to where they belong...as PVE games.

FFXI did it the right way,it made a totally PVE MMORPG,but still had a VERY good PVP system in place for those that agreed to do it.As was witnessed,VERY few took part in the PVP aspect,even though it was a very well setup system and was a fair system to boot.Maybe that is the problem with players today,they do not want PVP to be organized and fair,they want to be able to cheat or find an edge to give them the no risk reward.

Yes i agree that forced PVP will not work in NA. I enjoy some PVP now and then but at the end of the day if the game is lacking in PVE elements it will be the first such game to succeed in the west.

 

Why do I feel you're saying that because the game isn't 100% PvE oriented?

I have no idea. I played Warhammer and enjoyed the PVP until i found that its all it had to offer. I also did quite a bit of PVP in WOW but enjoyed the PVE as well. But believe what you will, if its forced PVP it will not do well here. 

Im not trying to diss your statement about NA's preferences, I don't know them, and I don't think any mainstream MMO game has done PvP well enough to see what those preferences are.

What Im trying to figure out is why you relate PvP with lacking PvE, guess you've been spoiled by previous games, but I don't think it's fair to state Aion lacks PvE elements.

I enjoy pvp when i choose to play it but if its forced on me to progress then i will choose another mmo,simple as that.

From my understanding, the "safe zones" aren't really safe except maybe for the starter (1-10 zone). After that you can get ganked if the opposing side tries hard enough to get there?

Once you get to 25-30 or so, all zones are basically FFA PVP. There are no safe zones.

And while the PVE content is there and you can get to max level PVE'ing, it is much slower and much more of a grind with loot that pales in comparison to PVP loot.

Please, by all means, correct me if I am wrong (I honestly just repeating what I have read and its a good chance I misunderstood it).

Originally posted by templarga

From my understanding, the "safe zones" aren't really safe except maybe for the starter (1-10 zone). After that you can get ganked if the opposing side tries hard enough to get there?

Once you get to 25-30 or so, all zones are basically FFA PVP. There are no safe zones.

And while the PVE content is there and you can get to max level PVE'ing, it is much slower and much more of a grind with loot that pales in comparison to PVP loot.

Please, by all means, correct me if I am wrong (I honestly just repeating what I have read and its a good chance I misunderstood it).

First 20 levels are PvP safe unless you are premature leaving those safe areas before you're meant to. Then, at 20, you get rifts, which spawn every 2 hours allowing 50 enemies inside your area. That PvP is indeed forced if you are unfortunate enough to be in the enemy's path or near the rift entrance.

The PvE gear (craft/drops) is pretty competitive, and, in some cases, even better than abyss gear due to certain bonuses such as attack speed, which isn't found in abyss gear. Abyss gear is so wanted because it has more manastone slots and percentual bonuses which affect exclusively during PvP, for example, 10% PvP attack bonus. If you are a PvEr, Abyss gear isn't really the best for you.

The Abyss is a free for all pvp area where both factions meet, filled with PvP plattforms and some PvE encounters, you're not forced to go there by any means.

So, the only forced PvP you'll get in Aion is the one I exmplained of my first paragraph, if you are next to a rift when it spawns, or if the enemys group is strong enough to survive on hostile lands and reach your cities/instance entrances.

Gotta add: Rifts are limited by level ranges, so a level 50 cant go through a level 20 rift. Also, if someone is successful through rifts and gets to kill many people, his name will be broadcasted and his position will show up on the map, after certain ammount of kills he will start getting debuffed.

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by templarga

From my understanding, the "safe zones" aren't really safe except maybe for the starter (1-10 zone). After that you can get ganked if the opposing side tries hard enough to get there?

Once you get to 25-30 or so, all zones are basically FFA PVP. There are no safe zones.

And while the PVE content is there and you can get to max level PVE'ing, it is much slower and much more of a grind with loot that pales in comparison to PVP loot.

Please, by all means, correct me if I am wrong (I honestly just repeating what I have read and its a good chance I misunderstood it).

 

First 20 levels are PvP safe unless you are premature leaving those safe areas before you're meant to. Then, at 20, you get rifts, which spawn every 2 hours allowing 50 enemies inside your area. That PvP is indeed forced if you are unfortunate enough to be in the enemy's path or near the rift entrance.

The PvE gear (craft/drops) is pretty competitive, and, in some cases, even better than abyss gear due to certain bonuses such as attack speed, which isn't found in abyss gear. Abyss gear is so wanted because it has more manastone slots and percentual bonuses which affect exclusively during PvP, for example, 10% PvP attack bonus. If you are a PvEr, Abyss gear isn't really the best for you.

The Abyss is a free for all pvp area where both factions meet, filled with PvP plattforms and some PvE encounters, you're not forced to go there by any means.

So, the only forced PvP you'll get in Aion is the one I exmplained of my first paragraph, if you are next to a rift when it spawns, or if the enemys group is strong enough to survive on hostile lands and reach your cities/instance entrances.

Gotta add: Rifts are limited by level ranges, so a level 50 cant go through a level 20 rift. Also, if someone is successful through rifts and gets to kill many people, his name will be broadcasted and his position will show up on the map, after certain ammount of kills he will start getting debuffed.

Thank you for the expanation. That begs a few question though about the rifts:

1. Are the players coming through the rifts timed in their adventure or are they there until beaten?

2. Do you get NPC's to help you out or guards that get progressively stronger to help you get rid of the invaders?

3. Are the rifts related to the zone in levels.....like battlegrounds in DAOC? Say you are in the 20-30 leveling area. Are the players coming through between those levels or can you have max levels come through?

Again, just curious because I think the issue of forced PVP is a serious one and one that many are interested in.

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Wizardry

First of all you should not tell others they cannot have an opinion then go on to say yours is MORE constructive.That is a biased opinion right there.Even so,i do agree with you on the fact that forced PVP does not work,but not just in AION...ANY  mmorpg game for that matter.

People do not like aspects of games for a reason,because they believe it is a bad idea,at least for themselves.This of course does not mean it is bad for everyone.As for myself,when i bring up a flaw in a game, i do so because i feel it is a bad idea for the MAJORITY not just myself or a select few.A game can only exist when the majority of players are really happy with the game.PVP is one example that would most likely ruin a game experience for close to 50% of the players,even if they new there was PVP before they entered the game.

However on your post about PVP,this is one HUGE aspect i have eluded to in MANY posts,not even related to AION.

I have stated OVER AND OVER PVP does "NOT" work in ANY MMORPG.As soon as you bring PVP into the mix ,it is no longer a MMORPG,it is a FPS.You can NOT have the "role play" aspect in the game when someone else gets to determine what you do or do not do in the game,it does NOT match or mix.

I am glad that the OP at least comes out and states PVP is a fail,because many others wil lturn to cheating or finding other means to protect themselves from constant death.By letting the developers know and the "other" players know it is not something that works,we may get MMORPG's back to where they belong...as PVE games.

FFXI did it the right way,it made a totally PVE MMORPG,but still had a VERY good PVP system in place for those that agreed to do it.As was witnessed,VERY few took part in the PVP aspect,even though it was a very well setup system and was a fair system to boot.Maybe that is the problem with players today,they do not want PVP to be organized and fair,they want to be able to cheat or find an edge to give them the no risk reward.

Yes i agree that forced PVP will not work in NA. I enjoy some PVP now and then but at the end of the day if the game is lacking in PVE elements it will be the first such game to succeed in the west.

 

Why do I feel you're saying that because the game isn't 100% PvE oriented?

I have no idea. I played Warhammer and enjoyed the PVP until i found that its all it had to offer. I also did quite a bit of PVP in WOW but enjoyed the PVE as well. But believe what you will, if its forced PVP it will not do well here. 

 

Im not trying to diss your statement about NA's preferences, I don't know them, and I don't think any mainstream MMO game has done PvP well enough to see what those preferences are.

What Im trying to figure out is why you relate PvP with lacking PvE, guess you've been spoiled by previous games, but I don't think it's fair to state Aion lacks PvE elements.

Im basing this on what ive read here and on Aionsource. Ive played in this weekends beta and have enjoyed it a lot. But from what ive been reading everything changes at level 25 and it becomes a PVP game with nothing to PVE but grinding.