Network Sites: FPSguru.com RTSguru.com UnboundGamer.com
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Games:611  Guilds:3,081
Members:1,594,909  Online:0
Guests:0  Posts:4,848,090
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkfall Darkwind: War on Wheels Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Desert Operations Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eden Eternal Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elf Online Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire & State Empire Craft EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forsaken World Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Grand Chase Europe Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall Habbo Hotel Haven & Hearth Hedone Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero 108: Online Hero Online Hero's Journey HeroSmash Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Holic Online Hostile Space Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Infinity Infinity Iris Online Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia Online
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris Terra World Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Elder Scrolls Online The Legend of Ares The Matrix Online The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems There Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Toontown Online Top Speed Torchlight Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War U.B. Funkeys UFO Online Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Valkyrie Sky Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos Voyage Century W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WYD Global Wakfu War Rock War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warrior Epic WebLords Wild West Online WildStar WindSlayer 2 Wish Wizard 101 Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World War II Online World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Tanks World of Warcraft World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xiah Xsyon YS Online ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News Discussion  » General: MMO Underbelly: Progress In Open Chat?

9 Pages First « 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 » Search
166 posts found
  Piratess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/15/09
Posts: 40

7/06/09 3:27:43 PM#121
Originally posted by Sanya

My reaction to the person using the n-word was to simply hit ignore. As this thread is demonstrating, anyone using the word in casual conversation cannot be reasoned with or educated, whereas most of the people using 'gay' as an insult can usually be taught better manners. If not, well, the ignore function doesn't expire if you don't use it right away!

There's just no point in arguing with scum. Ignoring, and on private property such as an MMO server, banning, are the best options if education fails.

 

Scum?

You call people scum after you try and dictate what people say in open chat? The only education that people need ( for a game ) is this:

Learn to use the /ignore button, and learn not to get offended or "victimized" by a word.

A real journalist needs to be un-bias. You need to be fired.

PIRATESS
[Matriarch of Shadow of Apophis]

  djFEVA

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/09
Posts: 48

A no BS perspective

7/06/09 3:30:40 PM#122
Originally posted by Teiman

Is the discussion dead already? 

Can I talk?  I hate long threads.  I have skipped almost everything is said here, because I have no time to read 99993 post. 

All I have to say, Is that I have learn something on this thread from the guys that  defend the use of nigger and gay in normal conversations, like in a chat.  And I have learned nothing from the PC (Political Correct) camp 

 

 

 

I'd day don't worry about PC camp, because you are not there yet. Let's first worry about reading camp, so you'll actually learn of other people's opinions on the matter, and then attend writing camp, so other people can understand you.

The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.

  Wickedjelly

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 3382

The Dude abides

7/06/09 3:31:05 PM#123
Originally posted by Elikal

 You understand nothing. I can call myself an ass any day, but that doesn't give YOU the right to call me that.

...and you do?If so, you haven't shown it yet.  All you've proven is that regardless of one's orientation or ethnicity is that anyone can be just as likely to stereotype, prejudice, and jump to gross mischaracterizations.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Warsong

Novice Member

Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 581

www.piratelords.com

"To err is to
invite
retribution"

7/06/09 3:33:09 PM#124
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
Originally posted by Elikal

This is one of the most important articles written on this website.

Words are much more than mere than "breath in the air". Words offer the means to meaning. And they betray people, much more than they are aware. When someone does not know a word, he does not know the idea. We grasp the world by the words we give things. And never we betray ourselves more in the public as by the bad words and curses we use.

Often are such views bashed as PC and as censorship of so called freedom. But freedom ends where it harasses people, where it degrades the personal honor and intregrity of another. That is the foundation of every civilization. Without verbal respect, without care in words, there can be no peaceful society, and the internet must not become a morally devoid space, where rules of civilized behavior are null. Otherwise we open the door for barbarism and ethical decay.

 

We must care for the words we say! It is utterly foolish to claim, a person uses the word "gay" as negative and does NOT have some hate against gay people. Or as it may be with any other similar use of these words. That claims a totally wrong concept of empathy. Every halfway mentally sane person has the ability to feel how calling others in a degrading way hurt them. Everyone can feel that. So it is a lie to claim, that someone uses such words in harrassing ways and is not aware of it. They say "it is common used now". Well, since when is THAT an excuse? If rape or stealing becomes common, does that justify it? It does not take away the individual responsibility of a person A BIT, that someone else is doing that, too.

By and large, the mayority of the society still is racist in it's core. I find that as a fact. People mask that, they behave and pretend to me modern, tolerant people. But in reality, the racism and sexism ("you fight like a girl" Few face the fact how bad such a statement in reality is!) are still part of many people's view. Against Jews, Blacks, Gays and others. For many tolerance is just a thin paper mask they wear, which breaks all to easy when they are aggravated, and then the ugly face of humanity shows. I have become fatalistic about this.

For me as a gay man, I have accepted the fact, that the majority of the especially male ppopulace will ALWAYS hate us. I don't think that will ever change. What remains for me is that word out of "V for Vendetta", which I greatly adore: "I don't understand why they hate us so much." For hate it is, no matter how they want to twist their words into triviality. Civilization is for most a thin layer under which hate and the sheer barbary of violence dwells.


 

Sorry you feel that way but for many of us that just simply isn't true.  I don't hate gay people.  Frankly, i don't care what sexual orientation you have.  Not simply because quite frankly it's really none of my business but also simply because what difference does it make to me as to what sex you're attracted to?

I have three gay friends and I can honestly say none of them are offended by those that use the "gay" term in the context presented initially in this article.  As I said before the one uses the term herself more than anyone else I know personally.  Thankfully, this discussion never comes up with them because they're more than comftorable being around me just as who they are as I am around them.  We talk about everything from relationships to what we think of the latest movie being hyped around town.  I'm not going to sit here and type everyone is that way because we both know that isn't the case but to think the majority of us hetero males hate you or wish you ill just isn't true.  Yes, there are those of us that are assholes.  There are also others of us that  don't care if you're gay or straight and can accept a person for who they are-not who we think they should be.

People's outlooks and perspectives on issues such as these are changing.  It certainly isn't happening as fast as I would like to see it but there has been change mostly for the better in these areas.  People, in general, would do a lot more to help change the atmosphere more by learning acceptance and understanding across the board rather than rehashing this me vs you mentality.  It does nothing but feed into the vitriol of prejudice that is still allowed to rear its ugly head from time to time.  Trying to say some hate filled person using a slanderous bigoted word is the same as saying a  catchphrase such as  "you throw like a girl", "that's so gay", or "girly man" is ridiculous.  They aren't the same and aren't used in the same connotation.  If you want to continue to think people that use those hate homosexuals or wish them ill then so be it.  Not going to change your mind just realize that, least from everyone I've ever known that says those things, you would be dead wrong.

 

 

People like you won't be educated. I stopped trying long ago. Pity is, you don't even realized the damage you do. Words are the beginning of everything.

It is why politicians start to call wars "incidents" and death "collateral damage".

Using bad words about minorities is the beginning of a road whose logical end is Auschwitz - the Concentration Camp. It is like boiling the frog. When you toss a frog into boiling water, he will jump out, but if you warm it gradually, he will stay until his death. Myth or not, this is what happens with the slow loss of empathy and civil behavior, and the internet is ripe with that. A small step, but the first taking away of respect is what opens the door to more. That is why we must fight those first breaks of civility before bigger steps follow. You fight issues when they are yet small.

That you gay friends dont say to you to find this offensive just proves how victimized gay people are, when they don't even allow themselves to realize their victimization. It is what victims often do. They deny reality and say "it isnt so bad".

It is YOUR lack of empathy that is the issue here, not their issue to tell you. Maybe you look inside yourself and ask yourself why you and the others are so apparently un-emphatic that you do no longer feel the damage you do to others, even when they say it to you.

OMFG saying "gay" does not victimize homosexuals, saying "nigger" does not victimize blacks, saying "cracker" does not victimize whites, saying "redskin" does not victimize me....I remember this BS a few years ago when a small movement wanted the name of the Washington Redskins changed because they claimed it to be offensive. I am one of those "Redskins" predominately speaking and I'm not offended. I am emotionally mature and rather zen about the "bla bla bla" of others IE I have a disposition and desire to be happy and not offended by BS.

Assaulting a homosexual with a broomstick makes him a victim, enslaving a black man makes him a victim, raping a white female makes her a victim and killing an indian makes them a victim.

I walk down the sidewalk with my wife and someone tells her "nice ass"....some guys would fight over this because they manage their emotions like a child would......But I reply with "why yes it is, thx for noticing" and we are happily on our way rather than in front of a police car having to explain why there is some guy on the ground with a broken nose and ribs. My EMPATHY just saved that guys life.

  tmr819

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/07
Posts: 304

7/06/09 3:38:34 PM#125

One of the best things about MMOs--WoW, LorRO, etc.--is that you can turn off chat and play in blissful virtual "silence", which is what I do 99.99% of the time.

It isn't necessarily that the chat is offensive; I just find it very distracting and, yes, occasionally, annoying. The only time I use chat is for Guild Chat and in-party chat. Otherwise, no.

I keep waiting for Blizzard (or some MMO developer) to offer "silent servers", wherein players can only communicate using in-game emotes -- much the way Horde and Alliance sometimes communicate in WoW now. I would really like that.

I just find that most in-game (general/OOC) chat is either too inane for words or completely irrelevant to me and thus distracting, so I turn it off. Problem solved.

  Bakgrind

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/06
Posts: 255

vincere aut mori

7/06/09 3:40:52 PM#126
Originally posted by Teiman

Is the discussion dead already? 

Can I talk?  I hate long threads.  I have skipped almost everything is said here, because I have no time to read 99993 post. 

All I have to say, Is that I have learn something on this thread from the guys that  defend the use of nigger and gay in normal conversations, like in a chat.  And I have learned nothing from the PC (Political Correct) camp 

 

 


 

I myself was going to write some thing along the lines of what you have said. But you said it with four lines that was taking me 2 paragraphs to write :P  Except to say that this thread is full of fail. This reminds me of something I used to hear  as a kid growing up from my mom and dad. If you have nothing better to say, say nothing at all. And in this case create a bad topic that could be loosely defined as personal agenda  for flame bait.  I come here to read and discuss about one thing... Games. Even though the content of the post does take place in games there are mechanics to deal it with. It's called  block or ignore. I think we all know how to use that.

 

 

  User Deleted
7/06/09 3:55:24 PM#127

If anyone would like to share their opinion of Sanya's absolutely brilliant social commentary with the owner of this site, they may like to send a note to admin@mmorpg.com

  Micro_angel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/29/04
Posts: 89

7/06/09 3:59:38 PM#128
Originally posted by Dana

"join my guild or we will rape you.”

 

Oh yeah thats nice! nothing makes me happier than login into a mmo and laughin at this kind of jokes in the chat.

  User Deleted
7/06/09 4:12:53 PM#129

Some random rules from the RoC Miss Sanya should take a moment to read:

MMORPG.com is a site to discuss massively multiplayer online roleplay gaming. While users are encouraged and permitted to use our Off-Topic forum to discuss real life and non-MMORPG gaming, threads concerning sensitive subjects such as religion, politics, or ethics may be locked or deleted if determined out of hand by the MMORPG.com moderator staff.
 

Posting excessive negative comments or baiting others to respond in a negative manner is considered trolling on the MMORPG.com forums.

  User Deleted
7/06/09 4:35:47 PM#130

Good article.

  giggal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/04
Posts: 104

7/06/09 4:50:36 PM#131

reading over most of the posts i thought it was a general racists/homophobes/bigots in chat groups, but it comes across that it is much more emotionally rooted.

People use the Nword to ilicit a responce that responce may be position or negative, however they feed on the negative more than the positive. Likewise using the words gay or rape or so forth. Like a litteral vampire they crave the negativity they generate.

And so we end up with the situation where someone who truely might feel offence from a word gives these people a negative responce. which is why when the term "Nvidia is gay" was used people asked why are they happy and so forth, which was a positive responce people didnt find it offensive and so it was rendered null in the terms of the chat group, and so people moved on. However the Nword triggered such a negative outcry that it succeeded in what it planned on doing. If people did the same to the Nword as they did to the gay word it wouldnt be such an issue. It would had shown a maturity we dont normally see from games.

I think now that if someone responded to me "hey nword whats up" i may be more inclined to accept it in the term it is used, not as an offensive term aimed at the black comunity but instead used as the rappers and pop idols use it as a term of endearment, im sure some will find it offensive but i hope those that understand this would accept that the person using it is either, 1 black or 2 ignorant of the terminoloy. Likewise using the word gay in the same concept.

I never think personal attacks on other people or people quoting massive blocks of text should the poster should sit back and consider "is that person attacking me with a knife and i have to defend myself with a shotgun". no they are typing on a forum from the otherside of the planet (possibly) and ill never actually meet them so who cares what they type.

I think life is full of choices and you can either make the choice to fuel fires or you can just accept that some people have different views than others, we arnt all the same and we have all grown up in different circumstances and even different countries / cultures. i would never dream of aproaching a black dude and saying "whats up nword" (i cant even type it im that indoctrinated) i just couldnt see me doing it even if i knew them and they said it was alright i still wouldnt.

Like wise someone who has grown up in a comunity where its normal would see my responce as probbly bizare and strange. Lets all remember we are humans and the internet has provided us to meet and greet with cultures and people from all over the globe.

We dont all think the same.

  Egamst3k

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/08
Posts: 61

7/06/09 4:51:57 PM#132

Words are purely, completely, and utterly subjective. Meaning is interpreted by the receiver, and is affected by social context and expected intent. Basically, words mean whatever the listener/reader believes they mean.

The astute transmitter learns to navigate expected context and subjective interpretation, making sure that their intended message is as close as possible to the interpreted one.

The idiotic transmitter will assume that their form of communication, with its purely subjective qualities, is best and/or that it should be tolerated merely because they're using it. There's nothing that says subjective interpretations must be equally treated, and they often aren't.

Humans are finicky and often cowardly beings. The younger, in general, the more cowardly. Anonymity gives them false courage, but lock them in a room with the people they have issues with, and suddenly their vim and vigor disappear in favor of excuses and accusations. It becomes dangerous if it persists into old age, where ignorance of the subjectivity of interpretation leads to miscommunication or laziness.

Is language evolving? Yes. However, acceptable language is determined by the majority power (quite a lot like most other things), and oddly enough - just because you have the right to free speech, doesn't mean you won't get severely punished for it if it pisses off those in power. Is it unfair? Well, that assumes fairness is obtainable. It's not. History has always been written by the victors, and those in power will always make the rules. Hierarchies have always existed, and will always exist.

So, in relation to language - it just depends where you are and who you're dealing with. As I said before, anonymity (and lack of immediate recourse) makes for a lot of idiots in MMOs who feel like it's fine saying whatever they want. Practically speaking, they are fine - if there's no one to punish them, then habits will not change. However, another danger of the practice is that once something becomes a habit, it leaks into other areas of your life subconsciously. I guarantee you, you will never be hired for a 6-figure salary if you ever use the word "Gay" or "N*****." It won't happen. You'll be stuck at McDonald's bitching about the cost of gas. Try using either one on a grad-school application; same thing will happen. You'll be put in the "Rejected" pile so quickly they won't have time to look at your credentials (unless, of course, it's a constructive abstract dealing with the flamboyancy of either term in an education light - but that's a different context). Most people know this. When it matters, when your livelihood depends on you not being a jerk, most people will opt for the easiest route to their goal.

Those that row against the flow, and have been successful doing so, have done so in an extremely calculated manner so as to talk in the language of the majority power while also introducing new ideas. Those are the smart people.

Others are monumental idiots.

Yes, I am an English Major.

  Piratess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/15/09
Posts: 40

7/06/09 5:28:52 PM#133
Originally posted by Zorvan

Some random rules from the RoC Miss Sanya should take a moment to read:

MMORPG.com is a site to discuss massively multiplayer online roleplay gaming. While users are encouraged and permitted to use our Off-Topic forum to discuss real life and non-MMORPG gaming, threads concerning sensitive subjects such as religion, politics, or ethics may be locked or deleted if determined out of hand by the MMORPG.com moderator staff.
 

Posting excessive negative comments or baiting others to respond in a negative manner is considered trolling on the MMORPG.com forums.

 

Exactly right.

PIRATESS
[Matriarch of Shadow of Apophis]

  jdilling00

Novice Member

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 24

7/06/09 7:28:30 PM#134

Having read most of what is posted on mmorpg for a few years, I have to say that your collum on the industrys inner workings is the best of a reasonably good bunch. Mmorpg should sell another ad and give you a raise.

  majinant

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/17/07
Posts: 370

7/06/09 7:37:09 PM#135

I could sware that this artical was writtin to incite flaming.

 

Good job!

  whatamidoing

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/09
Posts: 169

7/06/09 9:23:55 PM#136

"When you say someone who is physically weak “throws like a girl,” that you got a good bargain by “Jewing the seller down,” and that something contemptible is “gay,” your speech reflects at best the result of a sick, bigoted culture. At worst your speech is saying you are sick and bigoted."
 

Is this a joke? If I want to say "something is 'retarded' or 'gay'" in the privacy of my own home or with people I know and won't take offense to it, I will. I'm smart enough to have something called tact. You trying to completely eradicate such sayings that YOU deem to be offensive and that are not "politically correct" is, to phrase is like you, naive at best and dillusional at worst. It's laughable that you even consider someone saying "you throw like a girl" to be sick and bigoted...Whatever, no use in trying to persuade you, you're just an ignorant girl who throws like a gay retarded jew. < how's that for you! can't wait to be banned because im sick and bigoted...lol

  //\\//\\oo

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/17/04
Posts: 2810

"The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity."

-The Lord of Darkness from Legend

7/06/09 9:47:33 PM#137

According to her profile, she's 11 years old; you guys were all just trolled by an 11 year old.

Oh, sorry for derailing, let me get back on topic: You gay retarded fags were all just mentally raped by an 11 year old.

/sarcasm

This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

  7jax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/29/09
Posts: 2

7/06/09 9:51:43 PM#138
Originally posted by Egamst3k

Words are purely, completely, and utterly subjective. Meaning is interpreted by the receiver, and is affected by social context and expected intent. Basically, words mean whatever the listener/reader believes they mean.

The astute transmitter learns to navigate expected context and subjective interpretation, making sure that their intended message is as close as possible to the interpreted one.

The idiotic transmitter will assume that their form of communication, with its purely subjective qualities, is best and/or that it should be tolerated merely because they're using it. There's nothing that says subjective interpretations must be equally treated, and they often aren't.

Humans are finicky and often cowardly beings. The younger, in general, the more cowardly. Anonymity gives them false courage, but lock them in a room with the people they have issues with, and suddenly their vim and vigor disappear in favor of excuses and accusations. It becomes dangerous if it persists into old age, where ignorance of the subjectivity of interpretation leads to miscommunication or laziness.

Is language evolving? Yes. However, acceptable language is determined by the majority power (quite a lot like most other things), and oddly enough - just because you have the right to free speech, doesn't mean you won't get severely punished for it if it pisses off those in power. Is it unfair? Well, that assumes fairness is obtainable. It's not. History has always been written by the victors, and those in power will always make the rules. Hierarchies have always existed, and will always exist.

So, in relation to language - it just depends where you are and who you're dealing with. As I said before, anonymity (and lack of immediate recourse) makes for a lot of idiots in MMOs who feel like it's fine saying whatever they want. Practically speaking, they are fine - if there's no one to punish them, then habits will not change. However, another danger of the practice is that once something becomes a habit, it leaks into other areas of your life subconsciously. I guarantee you, you will never be hired for a 6-figure salary if you ever use the word "Gay" or "N*****." It won't happen. You'll be stuck at McDonald's bitching about the cost of gas. Try using either one on a grad-school application; same thing will happen. You'll be put in the "Rejected" pile so quickly they won't have time to look at your credentials (unless, of course, it's a constructive abstract dealing with the flamboyancy of either term in an education light - but that's a different context). Most people know this. When it matters, when your livelihood depends on you not being a jerk, most people will opt for the easiest route to their goal.

Those that row against the flow, and have been successful doing so, have done so in an extremely calculated manner so as to talk in the language of the majority power while also introducing new ideas. Those are the smart people.

Others are monumental idiots.

 

This!  Egamst3k has it exact.  I believe that is the point that Sanya is trying to make in the article that everybody seems to be trying to ignore.  Take the article from a different perspective of somebody in the Customer Service position and it does make sense that you have to please the majority.  And seeing that some words, even if they have evolved in meaning (somebody mentioned gay in an earlier post as changed in meaning...it hasn't really) CAN be acceptable in your groups/circle of friends.  However, in the majority of the population, in public, it might not be.  So the best thing people can do, which is what I believe Sanya to be aiming for in this article, is that while you can talk in /whisper, /group, ventrilo or teamspeak in any manner you wish with your friends and guildmates, you should have a publicly civil tongue when you are in the presence of others.  This way you can't really offend them, or if you did not purposefully using words that are easily able to use in offensive; and you show a more intelligent side to yourself, because the person speaking like "yo n*gga, i gots me that new item so imma wreck sh*t now" isn't going to sound the brightest person in the world.

  whatamidoing

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/09
Posts: 169

7/06/09 11:49:43 PM#139
Originally posted by 7jax
Originally posted by Egamst3k

Words are purely, completely, and utterly subjective. Meaning is interpreted by the receiver, and is affected by social context and expected intent. Basically, words mean whatever the listener/reader believes they mean.

The astute transmitter learns to navigate expected context and subjective interpretation, making sure that their intended message is as close as possible to the interpreted one.

The idiotic transmitter will assume that their form of communication, with its purely subjective qualities, is best and/or that it should be tolerated merely because they're using it. There's nothing that says subjective interpretations must be equally treated, and they often aren't.

Humans are finicky and often cowardly beings. The younger, in general, the more cowardly. Anonymity gives them false courage, but lock them in a room with the people they have issues with, and suddenly their vim and vigor disappear in favor of excuses and accusations. It becomes dangerous if it persists into old age, where ignorance of the subjectivity of interpretation leads to miscommunication or laziness.

Is language evolving? Yes. However, acceptable language is determined by the majority power (quite a lot like most other things), and oddly enough - just because you have the right to free speech, doesn't mean you won't get severely punished for it if it pisses off those in power. Is it unfair? Well, that assumes fairness is obtainable. It's not. History has always been written by the victors, and those in power will always make the rules. Hierarchies have always existed, and will always exist.

So, in relation to language - it just depends where you are and who you're dealing with. As I said before, anonymity (and lack of immediate recourse) makes for a lot of idiots in MMOs who feel like it's fine saying whatever they want. Practically speaking, they are fine - if there's no one to punish them, then habits will not change. However, another danger of the practice is that once something becomes a habit, it leaks into other areas of your life subconsciously. I guarantee you, you will never be hired for a 6-figure salary if you ever use the word "Gay" or "N*****." It won't happen. You'll be stuck at McDonald's bitching about the cost of gas. Try using either one on a grad-school application; same thing will happen. You'll be put in the "Rejected" pile so quickly they won't have time to look at your credentials (unless, of course, it's a constructive abstract dealing with the flamboyancy of either term in an education light - but that's a different context). Most people know this. When it matters, when your livelihood depends on you not being a jerk, most people will opt for the easiest route to their goal.

Those that row against the flow, and have been successful doing so, have done so in an extremely calculated manner so as to talk in the language of the majority power while also introducing new ideas. Those are the smart people.

Others are monumental idiots.

 

This!  Egamst3k has it exact.  I believe that is the point that Sanya is trying to make in the article that everybody seems to be trying to ignore.  Take the article from a different perspective of somebody in the Customer Service position and it does make sense that you have to please the majority.  And seeing that some words, even if they have evolved in meaning (somebody mentioned gay in an earlier post as changed in meaning...it hasn't really) CAN be acceptable in your groups/circle of friends.  However, in the majority of the population, in public, it might not be.  So the best thing people can do, which is what I believe Sanya to be aiming for in this article, is that while you can talk in /whisper, /group, ventrilo or teamspeak in any manner you wish with your friends and guildmates, you should have a publicly civil tongue when you are in the presence of others.  This way you can't really offend them, or if you did not purposefully using words that are easily able to use in offensive; and you show a more intelligent side to yourself, because the person speaking like "yo n*gga, i gots me that new item so imma wreck sh*t now" isn't going to sound the brightest person in the world.


 

Yes, it's called tact. Nobody should go out of their way to offend somebody or say things that they know will piss people off but the reality is you can't stop that from happening, short of killing them or putting them in prison. That being said, in terms of an MMO community since that's what we're talking about here. If someone breaches the ToS then ban them because they breached the terms of service, don't try to push on them your moral beliefs because it's not your place. Now when talking about real life, take things on a case by case basis. Sometimes people are simply kidding around. Should we burn all the movies and books that have used "language" in a non politically correct way even if they're simply kidding around? If not then I don't think we should go about eliminating it from real life.

So yes, people should ideally be tactful and yes people should be allowed to kid around as well. Eliminating freedom of speech is a heavy price to pay for not offending some people.

Edit: I don't think she was trying to say that in order to please the majority we should act with manners while in public chat for instance (although this is probably not a bad idea). To me, she seemed to have some deep personal problems with people who use this "politically incorrect" language AT ALL. As in, no matter where you say it. Her point was that she was surprised to see people defending what in her mind was the right way to act and what to say in an MMO community or for that matter online community. It's exactly that though, in her mind. The issue here is if you disagree with her you'd surely get a large cup of haterade shoved down your throat. She seems to think her point of view should be held by everyone in society and we should all adopt the politically correct mindset and act like robots in order to wash away the influence of a "bigoted" society. Only problem is a) that would be boring and b) it's never gonna happen! It's human nature and the anonymity of the internet just brings out the worst in us. Human nature hasn't changed since, well, forever, so it's not going to change anytime soon =)

  Warsong

Novice Member

Joined: 12/03/05
Posts: 581

www.piratelords.com

"To err is to
invite
retribution"

7/06/09 11:55:34 PM#140
Originally posted by 7jax
Originally posted by Egamst3k

Words are purely, completely, and utterly subjective. Meaning is interpreted by the receiver, and is affected by social context and expected intent. Basically, words mean whatever the listener/reader believes they mean.

The astute transmitter learns to navigate expected context and subjective interpretation, making sure that their intended message is as close as possible to the interpreted one.

The idiotic transmitter will assume that their form of communication, with its purely subjective qualities, is best and/or that it should be tolerated merely because they're using it. There's nothing that says subjective interpretations must be equally treated, and they often aren't.

Humans are finicky and often cowardly beings. The younger, in general, the more cowardly. Anonymity gives them false courage, but lock them in a room with the people they have issues with, and suddenly their vim and vigor disappear in favor of excuses and accusations. It becomes dangerous if it persists into old age, where ignorance of the subjectivity of interpretation leads to miscommunication or laziness.

Is language evolving? Yes. However, acceptable language is determined by the majority power (quite a lot like most other things), and oddly enough - just because you have the right to free speech, doesn't mean you won't get severely punished for it if it pisses off those in power. Is it unfair? Well, that assumes fairness is obtainable. It's not. History has always been written by the victors, and those in power will always make the rules. Hierarchies have always existed, and will always exist.

So, in relation to language - it just depends where you are and who you're dealing with. As I said before, anonymity (and lack of immediate recourse) makes for a lot of idiots in MMOs who feel like it's fine saying whatever they want. Practically speaking, they are fine - if there's no one to punish them, then habits will not change. However, another danger of the practice is that once something becomes a habit, it leaks into other areas of your life subconsciously. I guarantee you, you will never be hired for a 6-figure salary if you ever use the word "Gay" or "N*****." It won't happen. You'll be stuck at McDonald's bitching about the cost of gas. Try using either one on a grad-school application; same thing will happen. You'll be put in the "Rejected" pile so quickly they won't have time to look at your credentials (unless, of course, it's a constructive abstract dealing with the flamboyancy of either term in an education light - but that's a different context). Most people know this. When it matters, when your livelihood depends on you not being a jerk, most people will opt for the easiest route to their goal.

Those that row against the flow, and have been successful doing so, have done so in an extremely calculated manner so as to talk in the language of the majority power while also introducing new ideas. Those are the smart people.

Others are monumental idiots.

 

This!  Egamst3k has it exact.  I believe that is the point that Sanya is trying to make in the article that everybody seems to be trying to ignore.  Take the article from a different perspective of somebody in the Customer Service position and it does make sense that you have to please the majority.  And seeing that some words, even if they have evolved in meaning (somebody mentioned gay in an earlier post as changed in meaning...it hasn't really) CAN be acceptable in your groups/circle of friends.  However, in the majority of the population, in public, it might not be.  So the best thing people can do, which is what I believe Sanya to be aiming for in this article, is that while you can talk in /whisper, /group, ventrilo or teamspeak in any manner you wish with your friends and guildmates, you should have a publicly civil tongue when you are in the presence of others.  This way you can't really offend them, or if you did not purposefully using words that are easily able to use in offensive; and you show a more intelligent side to yourself, because the person speaking like "yo n*gga, i gots me that new item so imma wreck sh*t now" isn't going to sound the brightest person in the world.

Wait.....<blinks>.....you are proposing a conformity to the masses even though some would strongly disagree with the masses???? If people always rolled over and did this we wouldn't have ended slavery when we did (if ever..who knows).       How very seriously IRONIC.

9 Pages First « 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 » Search