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7/06/09 3:27:43 PM#121
Originally posted by Sanya
Scum? You call people scum after you try and dictate what people say in open chat? The only education that people need ( for a game ) is this: Learn to use the /ignore button, and learn not to get offended or "victimized" by a word. A real journalist needs to be un-bias. You need to be fired. PIRATESS
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7/06/09 3:30:40 PM#122
Originally posted by Teiman
I'd day don't worry about PC camp, because you are not there yet. Let's first worry about reading camp, so you'll actually learn of other people's opinions on the matter, and then attend writing camp, so other people can understand you. The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are. |
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7/06/09 3:31:05 PM#123
Originally posted by Elikal ...and you do?If so, you haven't shown it yet. All you've proven is that regardless of one's orientation or ethnicity is that anyone can be just as likely to stereotype, prejudice, and jump to gross mischaracterizations. 1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical. 2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself. 3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose. |
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Warsong
Novice Member
Joined: 12/03/05
www.piratelords.com "To err is to |
7/06/09 3:33:09 PM#124
Originally posted by Elikal
People like you won't be educated. I stopped trying long ago. Pity is, you don't even realized the damage you do. Words are the beginning of everything. It is why politicians start to call wars "incidents" and death "collateral damage". Using bad words about minorities is the beginning of a road whose logical end is Auschwitz - the Concentration Camp. It is like boiling the frog. When you toss a frog into boiling water, he will jump out, but if you warm it gradually, he will stay until his death. Myth or not, this is what happens with the slow loss of empathy and civil behavior, and the internet is ripe with that. A small step, but the first taking away of respect is what opens the door to more. That is why we must fight those first breaks of civility before bigger steps follow. You fight issues when they are yet small. That you gay friends dont say to you to find this offensive just proves how victimized gay people are, when they don't even allow themselves to realize their victimization. It is what victims often do. They deny reality and say "it isnt so bad". It is YOUR lack of empathy that is the issue here, not their issue to tell you. Maybe you look inside yourself and ask yourself why you and the others are so apparently un-emphatic that you do no longer feel the damage you do to others, even when they say it to you. OMFG saying "gay" does not victimize homosexuals, saying "nigger" does not victimize blacks, saying "cracker" does not victimize whites, saying "redskin" does not victimize me....I remember this BS a few years ago when a small movement wanted the name of the Washington Redskins changed because they claimed it to be offensive. I am one of those "Redskins" predominately speaking and I'm not offended. I am emotionally mature and rather zen about the "bla bla bla" of others IE I have a disposition and desire to be happy and not offended by BS. Assaulting a homosexual with a broomstick makes him a victim, enslaving a black man makes him a victim, raping a white female makes her a victim and killing an indian makes them a victim. I walk down the sidewalk with my wife and someone tells her "nice ass"....some guys would fight over this because they manage their emotions like a child would......But I reply with "why yes it is, thx for noticing" and we are happily on our way rather than in front of a police car having to explain why there is some guy on the ground with a broken nose and ribs. My EMPATHY just saved that guys life. |
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7/06/09 3:38:34 PM#125
One of the best things about MMOs--WoW, LorRO, etc.--is that you can turn off chat and play in blissful virtual "silence", which is what I do 99.99% of the time. It isn't necessarily that the chat is offensive; I just find it very distracting and, yes, occasionally, annoying. The only time I use chat is for Guild Chat and in-party chat. Otherwise, no. I keep waiting for Blizzard (or some MMO developer) to offer "silent servers", wherein players can only communicate using in-game emotes -- much the way Horde and Alliance sometimes communicate in WoW now. I would really like that. I just find that most in-game (general/OOC) chat is either too inane for words or completely irrelevant to me and thus distracting, so I turn it off. Problem solved. |
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7/06/09 3:40:52 PM#126
Originally posted by Teiman
I myself was going to write some thing along the lines of what you have said. But you said it with four lines that was taking me 2 paragraphs to write :P Except to say that this thread is full of fail. This reminds me of something I used to hear as a kid growing up from my mom and dad. If you have nothing better to say, say nothing at all. And in this case create a bad topic that could be loosely defined as personal agenda for flame bait. I come here to read and discuss about one thing... Games. Even though the content of the post does take place in games there are mechanics to deal it with. It's called block or ignore. I think we all know how to use that.
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7/06/09 3:55:24 PM#127
If anyone would like to share their opinion of Sanya's absolutely brilliant social commentary with the owner of this site, they may like to send a note to admin@mmorpg.com |
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7/06/09 3:59:38 PM#128
Originally posted by Dana
Oh yeah thats nice! nothing makes me happier than login into a mmo and laughin at this kind of jokes in the chat. |
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7/06/09 4:12:53 PM#129
Some random rules from the RoC Miss Sanya should take a moment to read: MMORPG.com is a site to discuss massively multiplayer online roleplay gaming. While users are encouraged and permitted to use our Off-Topic forum to discuss real life and non-MMORPG gaming, threads concerning sensitive subjects such as religion, politics, or ethics may be locked or deleted if determined out of hand by the MMORPG.com moderator staff. Posting excessive negative comments or baiting others to respond in a negative manner is considered trolling on the MMORPG.com forums. |
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7/06/09 4:35:47 PM#130
Good article. |
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7/06/09 4:50:36 PM#131
reading over most of the posts i thought it was a general racists/homophobes/bigots in chat groups, but it comes across that it is much more emotionally rooted. People use the Nword to ilicit a responce that responce may be position or negative, however they feed on the negative more than the positive. Likewise using the words gay or rape or so forth. Like a litteral vampire they crave the negativity they generate. And so we end up with the situation where someone who truely might feel offence from a word gives these people a negative responce. which is why when the term "Nvidia is gay" was used people asked why are they happy and so forth, which was a positive responce people didnt find it offensive and so it was rendered null in the terms of the chat group, and so people moved on. However the Nword triggered such a negative outcry that it succeeded in what it planned on doing. If people did the same to the Nword as they did to the gay word it wouldnt be such an issue. It would had shown a maturity we dont normally see from games. I think now that if someone responded to me "hey nword whats up" i may be more inclined to accept it in the term it is used, not as an offensive term aimed at the black comunity but instead used as the rappers and pop idols use it as a term of endearment, im sure some will find it offensive but i hope those that understand this would accept that the person using it is either, 1 black or 2 ignorant of the terminoloy. Likewise using the word gay in the same concept. I never think personal attacks on other people or people quoting massive blocks of text should the poster should sit back and consider "is that person attacking me with a knife and i have to defend myself with a shotgun". no they are typing on a forum from the otherside of the planet (possibly) and ill never actually meet them so who cares what they type. I think life is full of choices and you can either make the choice to fuel fires or you can just accept that some people have different views than others, we arnt all the same and we have all grown up in different circumstances and even different countries / cultures. i would never dream of aproaching a black dude and saying "whats up nword" (i cant even type it im that indoctrinated) i just couldnt see me doing it even if i knew them and they said it was alright i still wouldnt. Like wise someone who has grown up in a comunity where its normal would see my responce as probbly bizare and strange. Lets all remember we are humans and the internet has provided us to meet and greet with cultures and people from all over the globe. We dont all think the same. |
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7/06/09 4:51:57 PM#132
Words are purely, completely, and utterly subjective. Meaning is interpreted by the receiver, and is affected by social context and expected intent. Basically, words mean whatever the listener/reader believes they mean. The astute transmitter learns to navigate expected context and subjective interpretation, making sure that their intended message is as close as possible to the interpreted one. The idiotic transmitter will assume that their form of communication, with its purely subjective qualities, is best and/or that it should be tolerated merely because they're using it. There's nothing that says subjective interpretations must be equally treated, and they often aren't. Humans are finicky and often cowardly beings. The younger, in general, the more cowardly. Anonymity gives them false courage, but lock them in a room with the people they have issues with, and suddenly their vim and vigor disappear in favor of excuses and accusations. It becomes dangerous if it persists into old age, where ignorance of the subjectivity of interpretation leads to miscommunication or laziness. Is language evolving? Yes. However, acceptable language is determined by the majority power (quite a lot like most other things), and oddly enough - just because you have the right to free speech, doesn't mean you won't get severely punished for it if it pisses off those in power. Is it unfair? Well, that assumes fairness is obtainable. It's not. History has always been written by the victors, and those in power will always make the rules. Hierarchies have always existed, and will always exist. So, in relation to language - it just depends where you are and who you're dealing with. As I said before, anonymity (and lack of immediate recourse) makes for a lot of idiots in MMOs who feel like it's fine saying whatever they want. Practically speaking, they are fine - if there's no one to punish them, then habits will not change. However, another danger of the practice is that once something becomes a habit, it leaks into other areas of your life subconsciously. I guarantee you, you will never be hired for a 6-figure salary if you ever use the word "Gay" or "N*****." It won't happen. You'll be stuck at McDonald's bitching about the cost of gas. Try using either one on a grad-school application; same thing will happen. You'll be put in the "Rejected" pile so quickly they won't have time to look at your credentials (unless, of course, it's a constructive abstract dealing with the flamboyancy of either term in an education light - but that's a different context). Most people know this. When it matters, when your livelihood depends on you not being a jerk, most people will opt for the easiest route to their goal. Those that row against the flow, and have been successful doing so, have done so in an extremely calculated manner so as to talk in the language of the majority power while also introducing new ideas. Those are the smart people. Others are monumental idiots. Yes, I am an English Major. |
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7/06/09 5:28:52 PM#133
Originally posted by Zorvan
Exactly right. PIRATESS
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7/06/09 7:28:30 PM#134
Having read most of what is posted on mmorpg for a few years, I have to say that your collum on the industrys inner workings is the best of a reasonably good bunch. Mmorpg should sell another ad and give you a raise. |
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7/06/09 7:37:09 PM#135
I could sware that this artical was writtin to incite flaming.
Good job!
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7/06/09 9:23:55 PM#136
"When you say someone who is physically weak “throws like a girl,” that you got a good bargain by “Jewing the seller down,” and that something contemptible is “gay,” your speech reflects at best the result of a sick, bigoted culture. At worst your speech is saying you are sick and bigoted." Is this a joke? If I want to say "something is 'retarded' or 'gay'" in the privacy of my own home or with people I know and won't take offense to it, I will. I'm smart enough to have something called tact. You trying to completely eradicate such sayings that YOU deem to be offensive and that are not "politically correct" is, to phrase is like you, naive at best and dillusional at worst. It's laughable that you even consider someone saying "you throw like a girl" to be sick and bigoted...Whatever, no use in trying to persuade you, you're just an ignorant girl who throws like a gay retarded jew. < how's that for you! can't wait to be banned because im sick and bigoted...lol |
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//\\//\\oo
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 4/17/04
"The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity." -The Lord of Darkness from Legend |
7/06/09 9:47:33 PM#137
According to her profile, she's 11 years old; you guys were all just trolled by an 11 year old. Oh, sorry for derailing, let me get back on topic: You gay retarded fags were all just mentally raped by an 11 year old. /sarcasm This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed. |
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7/06/09 9:51:43 PM#138
Originally posted by Egamst3k
This! Egamst3k has it exact. I believe that is the point that Sanya is trying to make in the article that everybody seems to be trying to ignore. Take the article from a different perspective of somebody in the Customer Service position and it does make sense that you have to please the majority. And seeing that some words, even if they have evolved in meaning (somebody mentioned gay in an earlier post as changed in meaning...it hasn't really) CAN be acceptable in your groups/circle of friends. However, in the majority of the population, in public, it might not be. So the best thing people can do, which is what I believe Sanya to be aiming for in this article, is that while you can talk in /whisper, /group, ventrilo or teamspeak in any manner you wish with your friends and guildmates, you should have a publicly civil tongue when you are in the presence of others. This way you can't really offend them, or if you did not purposefully using words that are easily able to use in offensive; and you show a more intelligent side to yourself, because the person speaking like "yo n*gga, i gots me that new item so imma wreck sh*t now" isn't going to sound the brightest person in the world. |
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7/06/09 11:49:43 PM#139
Originally posted by 7jax
This! Egamst3k has it exact. I believe that is the point that Sanya is trying to make in the article that everybody seems to be trying to ignore. Take the article from a different perspective of somebody in the Customer Service position and it does make sense that you have to please the majority. And seeing that some words, even if they have evolved in meaning (somebody mentioned gay in an earlier post as changed in meaning...it hasn't really) CAN be acceptable in your groups/circle of friends. However, in the majority of the population, in public, it might not be. So the best thing people can do, which is what I believe Sanya to be aiming for in this article, is that while you can talk in /whisper, /group, ventrilo or teamspeak in any manner you wish with your friends and guildmates, you should have a publicly civil tongue when you are in the presence of others. This way you can't really offend them, or if you did not purposefully using words that are easily able to use in offensive; and you show a more intelligent side to yourself, because the person speaking like "yo n*gga, i gots me that new item so imma wreck sh*t now" isn't going to sound the brightest person in the world.
Yes, it's called tact. Nobody should go out of their way to offend somebody or say things that they know will piss people off but the reality is you can't stop that from happening, short of killing them or putting them in prison. That being said, in terms of an MMO community since that's what we're talking about here. If someone breaches the ToS then ban them because they breached the terms of service, don't try to push on them your moral beliefs because it's not your place. Now when talking about real life, take things on a case by case basis. Sometimes people are simply kidding around. Should we burn all the movies and books that have used "language" in a non politically correct way even if they're simply kidding around? If not then I don't think we should go about eliminating it from real life. So yes, people should ideally be tactful and yes people should be allowed to kid around as well. Eliminating freedom of speech is a heavy price to pay for not offending some people. Edit: I don't think she was trying to say that in order to please the majority we should act with manners while in public chat for instance (although this is probably not a bad idea). To me, she seemed to have some deep personal problems with people who use this "politically incorrect" language AT ALL. As in, no matter where you say it. Her point was that she was surprised to see people defending what in her mind was the right way to act and what to say in an MMO community or for that matter online community. It's exactly that though, in her mind. The issue here is if you disagree with her you'd surely get a large cup of haterade shoved down your throat. She seems to think her point of view should be held by everyone in society and we should all adopt the politically correct mindset and act like robots in order to wash away the influence of a "bigoted" society. Only problem is a) that would be boring and b) it's never gonna happen! It's human nature and the anonymity of the internet just brings out the worst in us. Human nature hasn't changed since, well, forever, so it's not going to change anytime soon =) |
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Warsong
Novice Member
Joined: 12/03/05
www.piratelords.com "To err is to |
7/06/09 11:55:34 PM#140
Originally posted by 7jax
This! Egamst3k has it exact. I believe that is the point that Sanya is trying to make in the article that everybody seems to be trying to ignore. Take the article from a different perspective of somebody in the Customer Service position and it does make sense that you have to please the majority. And seeing that some words, even if they have evolved in meaning (somebody mentioned gay in an earlier post as changed in meaning...it hasn't really) CAN be acceptable in your groups/circle of friends. However, in the majority of the population, in public, it might not be. So the best thing people can do, which is what I believe Sanya to be aiming for in this article, is that while you can talk in /whisper, /group, ventrilo or teamspeak in any manner you wish with your friends and guildmates, you should have a publicly civil tongue when you are in the presence of others. This way you can't really offend them, or if you did not purposefully using words that are easily able to use in offensive; and you show a more intelligent side to yourself, because the person speaking like "yo n*gga, i gots me that new item so imma wreck sh*t now" isn't going to sound the brightest person in the world. Wait.....<blinks>.....you are proposing a conformity to the masses even though some would strongly disagree with the masses???? If people always rolled over and did this we wouldn't have ended slavery when we did (if ever..who knows). How very seriously IRONIC. |