Originally posted by andrelle

Originally posted by rikilii

Originally posted by Nicksd

WoW is just easy to get into, nothing more. The game itself is very lacking.

 

What exactly is it lacking?  List your top 5 features it should have, but doesn't.

 

Here's mine:

Housing

True PVP reward system (player looting)

items/gear that levels with you

Hero class (DK doesn't count - the idea is to champion your current toon)

Storyline that affects/changes the game world (example: current instances that evolve with each expansion)

These, to me, are very fundamental things that would provide the player with a better feeling of immersion in the game world. LOTRO does some of these. Why can't WoW?

1. Housing - I agree with this and I expect WOW to have it within the next year or two. The problem with housing is how detailed should it be and I think Blizzard wants a system far more than....buy a deed, have a house. I think it would be great to have to get the mats to build your house.

2. True PVP/Player Looting - Sorry, player looting will never happen. Is it any wonder that every MMO with player looting ends up failing miserably in recent years? This not something a large portion of the MMO community wants, it is just a loud portion of the MMO community.

3. Gear that Levels - This is kinda in WOW right now. You can get Bind to Account items with Badge loot at 80 and send it to an alt. it gains levels and stats as you do and even changes (leather to mail, mail/plate) as needed when your class gets an armor upgrade.

4. Hero class - I would love for a hero class to branch from your class but I think it would be even worse to balance. If you allowed a hero class for the Shaman, you would need a hero class for each spec (elemental, enhancement and resto) so it would be like 3 new classes. Balancing would be worse than it already is. I think they will do a Hero class for each type of class. The Dk is the tank/DPS one so I would expect a healing based one (like an ArchDruid), a melee/ranged one (Bucaneer type), a Dark magic one (Witch Doctor/Necro) and then a ranged caster one (some type of mage).

5. Quests that impact the world - Some do...well, as much as can be expected. To do this you really need to using instancing or phasing or something because it has to be done for every player. Then you have people complaining about too much instancing or phasing. You also will have people complain that it will be to solo based or single player based (ala SW:TOR). I can understand why Blizzard hasn't really done this yet but I think with the use of phasing in WOTLK alludes to more later on and maybe more of the "impact on the world" type of events.

Just my thoughts/opinions.

I think the only reason people talk about "wow killers" is due to subscription numbers.

As for the rest I really hate watching people judge games that you can't even play yet.  Its like writing a review of a film or novel before you watch it or read it.  (makes no sense). 

Also if you want to criticise games already out or not out yet you should really reconsider using comments about whining lol

Appart from that the term WoW killer does not equal WoW clone in my mind.  It simply has to draw an audience as big or bigger then WoW does, but it does not have to be a clone to do this.

I am seeing a lot of stuff being designed now that appear not to be designed anything like WoW that are going to be released in the next year that appear also to be AAA titles.   I think WoW has some competition coming and so that is why people are dubbing them as WoW killers but they wont be like WoW (one can hope) .

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

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Originally posted by Kyleran
WOW must never be killed.
Seriously, think of the type of people you know who still play WOW, would you really want them playing in your games?
Didn't think so.

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Yeah, because all the other MMOs have such greeeeeat communities.

 

All the WoW haters like to say that WoW has the worst community and is full of kiddies but turn a blind eye to how awful the community is in their favorite MMO.

I find this especially funny coming from an outspoken advocate of Eve(the real worst MMO community ever).

 /agree

The idea that World of Warcraft has some sort of horrible booger-ridden dirty diaper loud mouth baby QQ community is pretty laughable considering the amount of communities represented on this forum.  I've had worse experiences in other MMORPGs with elitism and childishness.  Age of Conan is a great representation, along with Anarchy Online and SWG.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

What is this fixation with Word of Warcraft?

Seems to be very popular, could explain the fixation.

why must it be killed beaten and mangled?

Not sure, but then again I only see wanna be gamers wanting it to be beat or mangeld.

And why in the world are so many companies focused on making thier own version ( to little to no success) of it?

Well it must be me, but I only see people with a certain playstyle that often will YELL WOW CLONE and I feel it has more to do with their playstyle then it has to do with the games itself.

It has amazing figures but I still Play Pen and paper RPG with 8 of my friends, and we have alot of fun, why must numbers dictate if a game is good or not?

For new people into games they pretend its a dedication of succes. While I will never disagree on WOW being a financial succes I personaly enjoyed the game for some time but to me it was not a succesfull game, see it's personal, just how it's personal that people ARE enjoying WOW.

5000-300000 people playing a game is still alot of people isent it? Also its not World of warcrafts foult that other companies lack the imagination to creat something uniq by themselfs.

The only thing I felt was unique with World of Warcraft was it's artstyle, the rest was far from being unique to me which is again personal and based on experiance in this genre.

1. Other Devs should stop looking at WoW as a frame of Refrence when they make games AGREE, but I do feel that it's more the people trying to play games that keep refering to WOW more so then developers do, in any case WOW is popular so we are bound to hear someting about it.
2. People should just lay of the WoW hate, if the game was so bad it would not get 10m + subs now would it? Anyone able to HATE a game should stop playing all together and find him/herself another hobby.
3. stop whining on other games that do try to be diffrent, but might not have the budget, if you belive in the Idee and keep on subscribing they might actually get better. 

Games that you might want to suport instead of bashing on WOW:

• Pirates of the Burning Sea ( fun game I think) Didn't like it, which DOES NOT mean the game sucks, it just means I didn't like it. Then again you won't really see me bashing any game.....for the new gen gamer when he or she dislikes something they whole game must suck for anyone else trying to play game X
• Age of Conan ( also a decent game when the bugs have been hammerd out) Played in beta, squased some bugs, played from release till about 2 months but didn't encounter much bugs and those I did encounter never broke my gameplay, ended the game cause overall it was to much combat to little world feel.
• Lotro ( this game is going okey but it could do mush better) Was in CB and OB, but OB even bought the game on release but never got to install it, as from what my experiance taught me in beta is that it wasn't the right game for me, in a way I felt it looked to "sweet" for my taste, but can definitly understand and see why many do enjoy the game.
• EvE ( just keeps getting biger and biger nothing will stop this game hehe) Love many feature's in EVE but really dislike the ofline training while the game supports allot of freedom, I felt to confined in being a spaceship only, will definitly try it again once Ambulant or what it's called gets released.....one day.
• Champions online ( with a positive comunity this game can go a long way) Not sure as nothing much atracts me about Champions online, again thats personal as I don't have any bakcground connection with the serie, I just have a different view on what I would like to see as a superhero MMORPG, I will however be trying/playing DCUO, mainly due to the familiarity, but again am not seeing it as a MMORPG, but more as a Action Online Game.
• Star trek online ( Might be the next big space MMO who knows, but it wont be perfect at the start so give it your suport) Definitly gonna give the game a try, just wished it was developed by those who are developing it, then again it's far to early to speculate and we'll see in time, hope it's good, but with IP's like this I want to live in that universe and am afraid it will be to much of a game to create that feel, again personal.......

All games listed above are good enough to play and some of them are truly brilliant. I say give them a chans for the first time or rejoin them and give them suport because then and only then Can they grow and become even better.

On the other hand games the realy deserve to tank are: RULE 3?????

• Warhammer online (WAR) a wow clone, lets hope this one dies, it is a realy boring game, with bad game design. also I hate EA. I tested in beta, played at release, it didn't fit my playstyle, but never the less I can understand those who enjoy the game, that mention of WOW clone is created by a persons playstyle. Geuss many just don't know the Warhammer universe..... 
• Star wars the Old Rebublic ( I hate EA did I mention that, plus I like the old Star Wars movies, the new shine stuff Is just Blehhe....) I am very intrested into what Bioware will manage with their first MMO, more so then the game being a Star Wars game, while I am a Star Wars fan, but again for a MMO with a well known IP I want to live in that universe, but will play it anyway...regardless.........
• Jumpage Evolution ( tries to be an Easy EVE or something, never liked cloners...) Yeah imagine more space MMORPG, like developers want to try something different? you forgot your own rule 3?, oh sure call it a EVE clone, while the game seems nothing like EVE at all, which can be good/bad.
• Aion ( Korean, bot, exploit grindfest, lets hope this one stayes where it belongs in Korea and Asia.....) You might not like it, I myself have hardly looked into it due to it being fantasy based, but do you really have such a limited view or playstyle on games in this genre?

Originally posted by retrospectic

I find it odd that you ended this post with such negative critiques.  Especially since you put some games above that are not even out and seemed to give them positive reviews.  If you hate EA I find it really interesting that you seem to be a fan of Fun Com.

 

First of Retrospectic thank you for answering my post. I liked that you took your time reading it. And you put forward some good points.

Now to answer why I ended it with some negative critiques is that I personaly think EA has screwed up alot of games. And they are in my opinion more focused on the $$$ then on actually making a good games. And Im not a big fan of Fun Com but at least they tried to make a few innovation with both Anarchy online and Age of Conan. EA Mythics warhammer on the other hand was one of the most mediocre games Iv played in a long while. And I have little to no hope that EA Bioware is going to pull of anything spectacular with The old Rebublic.

My post was also directed towards those people that hate WoW, but always end up Bashing the other games they try. They trash WoW but they cant seam to find any game that is good enough for them. That is why I asked Why must WoW be Killed, what is the fixation with this game, and why do Developers cave in and try to make games that resemble it.

I agree with you Retrospectic that its probably the Mighty Dollar that make it this way.  But if more people that so loudly advocate its WoWs demise put thier time into suporting more Independent Developers, we might realy see some changes in the genre.

ps: The games I listed was my personal opinion, I think some games are more promising then others and some deserve more respect then they have got.

I'm looking forward to SWTOR and TSW.

I usually play what is fun and then move on/take a break to try something else that I think seems fun.
I played WAR for awhile, I thought it was fun for the most part, after awhile the poor coding and general stiffness started to pluck my nerves. I'm not trying to compare it to WoW or anything, but for the type of game they were trying to create, it seemed they could have done better in executing the freedom and taken away alot of the clunky character movement. However that was only a sliver of what I think went wrong with the game.

I liked Conan for awhile, I decided it wasn't the type of game to make me linger around much longer, Probably because the only thing anyone wanted to do on my server was PVP in the chasm. (Literally, I couldn't find groups for anything else.)

I was on WoW since Beta, it was very ugly during those stages and come launch, it didn't start out with half a million subs, it takes time, love and the tears of broken marriages to create a harbinger.

I can go on for awhile, all the way back to UO and NWN, but few people remember those.

I continue my quest for fun, even if it is for few months at a time, I eventually return to play when I feel like it.

No, no, no. WoW must be beaten, then killed, preferably with a wooden stake.

Seriously though, why wouldn't you want to play something better than WoW?

WoW must be destroyed because it's the champion of all MMOs. And every champion must be brought to their knees and have them beg for their lives. It's not because WoW sucks, it's because we humans KNOW that we're capable of making an MMO lightyears better than WoW. Okay, yes, WoW does suck. Just like everything else here on earth, it gets old, and we need something new about every 3 years or so. Not 5.  Aion and other games that might be coming out soon, may not become as big as WoW, but people are looking for something that will get their mind off it. So just like the Roman Empire, the Greeks, and Atlantis, and whatever big empire there was in history, WoW must fall. That's just how things work here on earth. And one more thing...........Happy 4th of July everyone! God bless America!

Originally posted by graggok

because I want my soul back.

ROFL.

Only upset ex-players want it killed. No one else cares.

Originally posted by jjjk29 

  Companies like SoE are out there to make money.  And they are making alot of money.  There are still alot of players on EQ and SWG, Vanguard, and the other games under SoE.  But they are just making games to make money, which is why they dont really care if they go in and change the combat system of the already perfect SWG combat system (2004).

Companies like Blizzard, Turbine, Mythic, et al are out there to make money, too. Otherwise, why would they be in the business? SOE must be doing something right in the eyes of its continuing subscribership, otherwise they'd do something different. SOE is a popular whipping post in MMOland, but they're obviously successful nonetheless.

ALL businesses are in it for the money. Otherwise, they'd not be businesses but non-profit organizations. This little fact seems to escape quite a few people.

Originally posted by jonrd463

SOE is a popular whipping post in MMOland, but they're obviously successful nonetheless.

Not really, all their games have very low populations. Everquest / Everquest 2 and Vanguard are dead games.

Everquest + Everquest + Vanguard have maybe 100k players left, spread out over 40 or so servers. That is less than some F2P games.

If you watched Fan Faire a few weeks ago, you would know SoE isn't doing too well. Especially Everquest is doing very bad, there won't be a full epxansion again, only upgrades to the current game, Underfoot will come out in the form of upgraded content.

I believe Everquest and Everquest 2 have less than 50k players each, EQ maybe 20k.

Originally posted by Bastioni

Originally posted by jonrd463

SOE is a popular whipping post in MMOland, but they're obviously successful nonetheless.

Not really, all their games have very low populations. Everquest / Everquest 2 and Vanguard are dead games.

Everquest + Everquest + Vanguard have maybe 100k players left, spread out over 40 or so servers. That is less than some F2P games.

If you watched Fan Faire a few weeks ago, you would know SoE isn't doing too well. Especially Everquest is doing very bad, there won't be a full epxansion again, only upgrades to the current game, Underfoot will come out in the form of upgraded content.

I believe Everquest and Everquest 2 have less than 50k players each, EQ maybe 20k.

Well, if that is the case, they'll need to do some changes to attract and retain subscriptions or get out of the MMO business. Either way, their bottomline goal is no different than any other company's. It comes down to a question of effectiveness. Treat your customers right and they'll continue to be customers and you'll continue to make money. Treat them wrong and the customers will go away.

Blizzard, et al may have a better finger on the pulse of their playerbase, but make no mistake, they're just as motivated by the money as Sony.

Well there are a lot of people on here who think they ‘beat’ their solo games. That makes them think you can ‘beat’ a MMORPG by getting top level. So the next step in their faulty logic is that you can beat and kill the game itself.

The MMO industry is not like solo player games, hell any kind of online gaming is not even like solo games. Once people have some more life perspective beyond the latest ‘beat them up’ they don’t see things in just that way any more.