There is a difference between legitimate time put into nm hunting, and time increased due to lax restrictions that could remove botting altogether.

They could make all drops r/e. Except drops from mobs in BCNMS etc, the difficulty involved in getting seals etc is more then enough to stop botters from using that as a means of getting sellable items. other drops that dont need to be r/e are ones droped from mobs that need r/e traded items... makes it a little mroe difficult for the bot but sellable to the public

there are methods that i can come up with in 1 minute that could greatly reduce the UNECCESARY timesink of any mmo... but as long as a game developer looks like they are tackling the issue well enough and the people are happy they dont want to change things that work to their benefit

there would be a lot more happy people willingly nm hunting and enjoying ff14 if they are smart enough to implement  simple masures, that do not detract from fun gameplay.

Personally think NMs was a giant waste of time when I played.  Besides teh problem of gil farmers botting and whatnot I always foud it quite stupid in the instance of lizzy's boots how such a low level item was THE item to have on (said applicable characters) 20 levels later.  Any such items should be very useful for a few levels but not so far into the future that you never have to really worry about geting new boots again.

You will never stop all botters, you will never stop gold/gil/whatever farming/selling.  But SE CAN lower the focus on such items where they're not trivial but not pivotal.  Yes NM drops were hard to get but it never took any real skill or effort other than racing against other players (and maybe a little luck of the drop) to gain the items.

SE should have NMs in their new game but they also shouldn't make them the only way to get "epic" items. The really good gear should come from group efforts or something that involves a little more skill than just waiting around in a zone for hours on end then racing to grab teh mob when it pops.

I would have liked to see all drops rare/ex.The problem is sellable items,the yare needed,so the use of seals and bcnms is a good alternative.The problem is that the RMT could still bot and get tons of seals and go that route for sellable items.

BTW it is MUCH easier to cheat in a bcnm setting than in the open,because noone can watch your actions.

I like the idea of items being rare but they were exploited by the massive botting 24/7 around the clock ,so soon the rare items were no longer rare.

Personally the whole system needs to be dopne with some thought .not a throw in that caters to cheating and botting.From my long experience over time, i fear that Square will do no different this time around in FFXIV,it will still be a haven for cheats.

Just read everything on here.. and have 2 things to say. 

First, I really hope Square is not really thinking of NOT having NM's.  I mean, I've heard they are changing a bunch of stuff already, and I know some people are not wanting a "rehash", but umm.. some things have/need to stay the same, or we are not playing FF anymore... we are just playing some MMO that was given the title FF.. imo anyways.

The second is really a questiong I guess.  Before the question though, I do want to point out that I am probly the biggest bot hater in the MMO world!  With that said, I also want to state that I am in no way great with what people can and cant do with a computer which brings me to my question.  Can't Sqare, or any other developer for that matter, make a system that detects 3rd party software.. I mean it just seems like something that wouldnt be that hard to do with all the technology we have today... and again I'm not super computer literate, just something I think wouldnt be to difficult.  Or can't they put in something that we have to accept before we would log in and that button disables anything else running on your computer besides the operating system and the game?

I have a feeling that people are going to write some flaming stuff that they need to have other stuff running for w/e reason, so my rebutal to you before you even type that stupid crap is this.  If you are on your dedicated time to play the game.. then play the game. In the world of MMO, I dont think you really need to be looking up stuff online or sending messages to other people.. or at least I dont want you in my party XD.  I mean I played FFXI on the PS2 so I didnt even have those options, and I was fine with that... when FFXIV comes out, I plan on playing it on a console.. PS3 if I have to.. but hopefully the 360. 

Point in that paragraph is to just stop people from replying in a way that I dont really care about.. I just want to know if it is possible to stop the botters in that way, nothing else.  The reason I want to know is because imo that would be a small sacrifice.  Or if they can detect 3rd party systems.. why they just dont do that.

Originally posted by Eagler777

Just read everything on here.. and have 2 things to say. 

First, I really hope Square is not really thinking of NOT having NM's.  I mean, I've heard they are changing a bunch of stuff already, and I know some people are not wanting a "rehash", but umm.. some things have/need to stay the same, or we are not playing FF anymore... we are just playing some MMO that was given the title FF.. imo anyways.

The second is really a questiong I guess.  Before the question though, I do want to point out that I am probly the biggest bot hater in the MMO world!  With that said, I also want to state that I am in no way great with what people can and cant do with a computer which brings me to my question.  Can't Sqare, or any other developer for that matter, make a system that detects 3rd party software.. I mean it just seems like something that wouldnt be that hard to do with all the technology we have today... and again I'm not super computer literate, just something I think wouldnt be to difficult.  Or can't they put in something that we have to accept before we would log in and that button disables anything else running on your computer besides the operating system and the game?

I have a feeling that people are going to write some flaming stuff that they need to have other stuff running for w/e reason, so my rebutal to you before you even type that stupid crap is this.  If you are on your dedicated time to play the game.. then play the game. In the world of MMO, I dont think you really need to be looking up stuff online or sending messages to other people.. or at least I dont want you in my party XD.  I mean I played FFXI on the PS2 so I didnt even have those options, and I was fine with that... when FFXIV comes out, I plan on playing it on a console.. PS3 if I have to.. but hopefully the 360. 

Point in that paragraph is to just stop people from replying in a way that I dont really care about.. I just want to know if it is possible to stop the botters in that way, nothing else.  The reason I want to know is because imo that would be a small sacrifice.  Or if they can detect 3rd party systems.. why they just dont do that.

Simple answer is no.Square nor any other developer has shown any proactive measures towards anti cheat.It is ALWAYS up to the user to report cheating or in Squares case,the now TASK FORCE,does most of the work for them.The problem is that a task force does not monitor bots/pos/speed cheats.All they do is monitor gil going to and from players.

Unless all changes take place server side,you will not have a perfect anti cheat game.Punkbuster seems to be a decent anti hack program,but since developers will not pay to use it,it shows how little resources they dedicate to anti cheat.

To really catch the cheats,a games code would have to be written by some amazing thinkers.They would have to have code that rewrites itself,changes binaries often.There would have to be dedicated GM's for EACH server that are constantly monitoring cheating.There needs to be separate IN GAME buttons to report cheating for Bots,separate buttons to report POS/speed cheats,and there needs to be NO wait time for action on these matters.I do not see Square meeting ANY of the criteria,so expect more of the same broken economy and a broken game.

You can try to enjoy the game and ignore the cheating,but after a while you realize it affects your game a lot and really ruins the design and game experience,so much so that you often decide to quit.I am really sick of PLAYERS having to do al lthe work for the developer,they need to show some effort if they expect us to pay to play their games.Who knows by time FFXIV comes out ,i may still decide to play ROM as it is free.Sqaure had better show me they are taking a true stance against cheating and show some effort in doing so.I can easily afford to pay Square whatever amount to play their game,but out of spite ,i will not pay them anything if i do not like their effort.

Of course SE can spend a little more thought on the issue... we would all expect them to. But it's not going to stop botting and stuff.

Botting is not likely to go away, but se did ok on FFXI.  hopefully better on ffxiv

I would hope the HNM window to be shorter.  3 hours window is just too much, not even counting khimaira type window.

As for the drop rate.  Hopefully they raise it at least a little bit.  if they don't change the system all together.

Well then if your telling me its possible, but might cost a little money.. then I dont see why they dont do it.  For instance.. its been awhile since I actually looked at the price, but I think FFXI was $11.95 a month?  Ok, now I dunno there were like 500k players? Well to be 100% honest I would pay an extra $2 or so a month to have them employ people that are always monitoring and coming up with ideas and w/e you said.  I mean, $2 as a person is a small amount.. by 2 X 500,000,  thats an extra $1,000,000 per MONTH they could use to pay for this to happen.. and lets face it.. its just a game, but it could help people out there that are looking for work, and we would get to actually play a game the way its supposed to be for once.

I just hate botters... do these people not understand that they destroy games.. or do they just not care? 

Id pay more to have a bot free game.

Originally posted by Bellarion

Id pay more to have a bot free game.

 

Yeah no doubt I would to.. I was just giving an example that even an extra $2 a month would give them alot of money to deal with the issue.. and I strongly feel that anyone that is not a botter would agree. 

Originally posted by Eagler777

Originally posted by Bellarion

Id pay more to have a bot free game.

 

 

Yeah no doubt I would to.. I was just giving an example that even an extra $2 a month would give them alot of money to deal with the issue.. and I strongly feel that anyone that is not a botter would agree. 

I agree

I agree with every one's points. NM are a great addition to the game and aside from the good drops it was a pivotal aspect that drove players out of the cities and into the expansive world. Its nice when you die and a raise walks by on their way to a spawn location, and they help you out. So to an extent it un-congested the world and spread the population of low level and high level players.

Not all good gear dropped from NMs, the point systems from Assault and Campaign allowed players the ability to acquire gear that was good gear and it removed the system that HL end game LS suffer from, where as the time placed into a completing goals where not so evenly distributed when it came to looting. I liked this aspect of the game and they could just expand the points accusation to all the content in the game. It makes more sense that you go off and kill a NM for points and trade the points in to acquire gear.

Originally posted by Stilla119

 

 

I agree with every one's points. NM are a great addition to the game and aside from the good drops it was a pivotal aspect that drove players out of the cities and into the expansive world. Its nice when you die and a raise walks by on their way to a spawn location, and they help you out. So to an extent it un-congested the world and spread the population of low level and high level players.

Not all good gear dropped from NMs, the point systems from Assault and Campaign allowed players the ability to acquire gear that was good gear and it removed the system that HL end game LS suffer from, where as the time placed into a completing goals where not so evenly distributed when it came to looting. I liked this aspect of the game and they could just expand the points accusation to all the content in the game. It makes more sense that you go off and kill a NM for points and trade the points in to acquire gear.

Dynamis Guilds operated this way anyways, as Dynamis was flawed and unbalanced. Players were forced to produce a points system to even out the awards, why SE didn't see that players were correcting a problem in the system is beyond me but in the future they should reflect upon player generated content such as point systems to correct the game.

Ewww Stilla I have to disagree a little bit.  The way dynamis items were distributed was the opinion of the people that were in that particular group... I do not under any circumstance want anyone to tell me or force me to do things a certain way.. having options is having freedom, which is fun.  For example.. maybe there are 5 PLD going into the dynamis we are doing, and we get the PLD drop.  Ok, now 4 of the 5 either have the item, or have better stuff so dont want it.. and the 5th dont have enough of these points that you are suggesting "Square makes them get" so "we dont have to correct it", then you tell me what happens to that item?  Someone that is not even a PLD gets it? and they have to use points on it they didnt want to?  Or maybe you are suggesting it just goes to waste?

The same goes for NM's.  I don't understand why some of you people don't even see what your saying.. you want a "point" or whatever for killing an NM instead of a drop?  First of all, that system would be completely flawed.  How would you determine what amount of points you would get for killing an NM?  How about killing something like Serket, and lets say its worth 30 points, now most people would take a few members at least to get the spawn and safety in killing it.. so a 5 member group would get 6 points each.. and someone that kills lets say Dune Widow, 3 times in 3 hours and is worth say 5 points each time, that person would have a much easier job and get 15 points. I'm sorry too, we all know some jobs were better than others for soloing.. so is it fair that an RDM or NIN could solo Serket, and I couldnt?  I could go on and on but I dont feel like it right now.  What you people need to realize is that NM's are not the problem.. the botters and gil sellers and w/e were the problem, so come up with ideas to change what is broke, not change things that are not broke hoping the broken item is also fixed when you replace the item that was fine all along.

I wanted to add something also... I am not a person that likes to camp NM's all day all the time, feels like a waste of time to me.. but in my FFXI days, I actually was just passing through and killed Leaping Lizzy one day and got the boots... I want that option... and chance at luck, keeps things interesting.  If it had been done by points.. I would have gotten a point or something which would have been pretty much worthless.. which is another good point... some NM's would never even get killed because it just wouldnt be worth it really.

IDK, if a player has been hunting AF in Dynmais for a year and for reasons out of their controll the AF never drops or there was a error within the LS and or the party and the Item was given to the wrong player and/or the AF was lost, that player is screwed.  How much time is an acceptable amout of time to get AF.  If the Dynamis system awarded points, ( much like the Dynamis LS do now,)  the player could have purchased the AF from an NPC with their points, call it a last chance to gain such gear prior to quiting the Dynamis LS, and possibly the game.

Haha dude, your talking about completely changing the way an entire system works, and taking away our options because of your lack of skill and/or organization.  The only way those things could/would happen is if you and your entire group are not paying attention and are not organized enough to know who should be getting what.  I mean, even your system is flawed.  In dynamis right now, you could get lucky and get 5 drops in the first 5 mins in dynamis, its happened, and the drops help keep it exciting.  With your system, what you have to win to get a point? And how many points would you need for an item? I mean otherwise if you get points just for going, then anyone who is rich could just spend the 1,000,000 every 3 days and never have to even kill anything and still get points.  Furthermore, SE should only have to do so much, and let us, the people, decide how items are going to be distributed, if you dont like how the shell your in is doing it.. go somewhere else or start your own shell with your own rules.  Seriously, why are you all about having our options taken from us?  Have you been to jail and liked it or something? >.>

I dont think its necessary to get worried about FF14 till it comes out. Then we can all love it or hate it. People did play FFXI for years, often tediously, and never did get their AF2... I think that the price could have been changed earlier to 500k and the times allowed changed from 3 days to like 1 and a half.  People still wouldn't have their AFs in huge quantities because of all the hardships that go into getting it aside from the price and times.  But I have recently decided to let FF11 be FF11 and wait untill FF14 comes out to judge it. Im sure Ill be pleased.... 9 years is a lot of experience.

Originally posted by Eagler777

Haha dude, your talking about completely changing the way an entire system works, and taking away our options because of your lack of skill and/or organization.  The only way those things could/would happen is if you and your entire group are not paying attention and are not organized enough to know who should be getting what.  I mean, even your system is flawed.  In dynamis right now, you could get lucky and get 5 drops in the first 5 mins in dynamis, its happened, and the drops help keep it exciting.  With your system, what you have to win to get a point? And how many points would you need for an item? I mean otherwise if you get points just for going, then anyone who is rich could just spend the 1,000,000 every 3 days and never have to even kill anything and still get points.  Furthermore, SE should only have to do so much, and let us, the people, decide how items are going to be distributed, if you dont like how the shell your in is doing it.. go somewhere else or start your own shell with your own rules.  Seriously, why are you all about having our options taken from us?  Have you been to jail and liked it or something? >.>

Um yeah I am talking about changing the way the entire system works. Its not because I lack skill and/or organization. I would go on but I would rather have a conversation with someone who doesn't attack my screen name, I played for 5 1/2 year I understand the concepts in the game. I hope you enjoy FFXIV, who knows we might be in the same LS where you can try to belittle me there as well. Go off with your bad self, much props, you get a big "E" for effort.

Well, getting back on topic a little bit, I was just sitting here actually thinking about my times camping NM's.  I don't know if it was my natural bad luck or what but if I was forced to make a guess, I'd say I got about 15 drops out of like 1,000 NM's killed through out my entire FFXI time.  I don't think that is very good XD.  Thats just regular NM's I've killed solo, not the gods and kings and stuff.. and not the 100% drop items.  So, I think they shoud maybe up the rate a bit.. or maybe somehow do it secretly individualy based.  Of course better for thiefs, but around the same percentage of drop items aquired by everyone, because I'm sure there are people out there that have got probly 15 drops out of 100 instead of 1,000 >.>  I don't know, just sitting here thinking on the keyboard!

In order to compete with other games in the market now, I think SE will make it a little less tedious. Grind is not really all that bad, in hindsight I like it. It is a very FF thing to do, and FF game takes 80-100 hours or whatever... it is only logical that an FF MMO should take years,... but they need to work on ironing out the "tedious"... im sure they can.