Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Bodeus 

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So I agree with Silius another relaunch wouldnt make any difference. People left because they didnt like the game. either the games design or the games performance. So If the the design and performance are still bad enough to drive people away even from the recent IoD relaunch and media blitz then the game obviously will never been any better or more popular than it is.

 

I highlighted the part I especially agree with.

I really do think that when all is said and done, that people just didn't like the initial game design. Myself included. I had no intention of ever playing Vanguard short of just trying it out. I don't like forced grouping games and the whole retro gaming experience was intitially a turn off.

However, I recently tried it again because I just wanted to see the trial Island. I have to say that it was very polished and really got me to try different classes out.

...[CUT]...

This game will only get more players through a very slow word of mouth to only a small amount of players who have the patience and desire to play a game like this. Hopefully that will be enough.

 

 

I've cut down the quotes abit.

From my view, the trend that I have seen, I would like to add.

After IoD, especially somewhere beetween Q1-Q2  this year (2009), the game climbed well on Xfire. And, uhm, for Vanguard to do that... It was at position 160-170 from being 180-200. A former climb similar to that was during the first free month, that was before IoD though. But this climb was better then the christmas figures.

Also here on MMORPG the general feel against the game was quite abit more positive than 6-8 months before.

At this time I think the game recouped very well. It was gaining momentum.

On Halgar the lvl 1-10 population varied beetween 80-100 people, something it had not been at since the release of IoD. I remember the top I've seen was 130 players (I probably should check my post history.). The time beetween IoD and Q1/Q2 the population was 50-70 for lvl 1-10. For servers like Seradon it had most of the time 180+, alot of those times 200+.

SOE shoot their foot with the RMT shop. Now I don't think that the RMT changed anything to the game besides stirring up the players.

But today. Halgar has beetween 30-60 on lvl10, mostly in the lower regions of that and it have declined alot on Xfire.

 

So... No I do not agree with what you are saying. The game was received better after IoD. There was alot more players joining then what it is now. And by so there actually was a time not far ago where the design, performance and blah blah did not drive away people.

If, only, there have been a way to notice that the RMT did nothing for the game...

 

You are going to have to  point out where you don't agree because I don't exactly see where what you have said and what I have said are at odds.

The colored part of Bodeus posts say that IoD did not do much to change people opinion and help the population. It also say "still bad enough to drive people away" which at some point it actually was not. Maybe I choosed the wrong wording though and so affecting the interpretation, but at odds is a bit of a strong word to use.

If the game was doing better since IoD? (is that the new player isle?) then great. But that doesn't mean that they would have stayed once they got to the main part of the game. The main part of the game is a lot different, as you know, and not for everyone. As far as my experience on the new island, it was (and to some degree "is") still bustling. People grouping, running around, fighting for mobs, etc. But it is quite different from the main part of the game. I can easily see the game losing people who aren't prepared.

At some point they are leaving the Island, or leaving the game, and the figures during this period was raising. Now I noticed that I mixed up some of my details  timewise in my post, but still the main point in my post was simple that the first months of this year I felt the game gained momentum. Both population wise and forumwise. Especially a few months after IoD settled.

....[cut]...

As far as RMT, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the average person doesn't care. I'm sure there are a lot of gamers who come to forums who rage against that sort of thing and I completely understand why. However, the average person/player doesn't really post on forums, sometimes reads them and in many cases from what I've heard don't even know they exist. I'm sure they here that station exchange has been added and either say "hey that's great" or "ok, but I'm not going to take advantage so I don't care".

There was a distinct difference when it was announced and added. And well, that could very well be coincidential I would not dare to say I know. Anyway I have the same beliefs that you have here so in a way I'm not shure on which foot to stand. (Other than ofcourse that I think things looked quite bright a few months ago.)

I fall in the latter category as it does nothing for or against my play time. I log in, have fun and log off. I think there are a lot of people who just don't care or don't notice.

Yet, I still see posts where people complain about bugs here or some chugging there which shows me that they are truly having issues, are rather unforgiving of what might be considered minor inconveniences or they truly are having technical issues as it seems that some machines just dont' like Vanguard, no matter how powerful they are.

Originally posted by Daffid011

It find it really conflicting when someone says soe "saved" vanguard.

 

Sure they rescued it from closing down, but beyond that it feels more like they pulled it from the ash pile to pillage subscribers for EQ2 and the better developers and then kicked it to the curb. 

 

 

(Agree)

I'm shure that Sigil would have brought, at least, Vanguard to the point it is today. It isn't SOE that fixed up the game it still is former Sigil people that is working on it. Maybe SOE saved it in a sence that, I don't know, better leadership. And as you said they saved it in the sence they bougth it. But that would not be SOE that would be Smed.

Originally posted by Orphes

As far as RMT, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the average person doesn't care. I'm sure there are a lot of gamers who come to forums who rage against that sort of thing and I completely understand why. However, the average person/player doesn't really post on forums, sometimes reads them and in many cases from what I've heard don't even know they exist. I'm sure they here that station exchange has been added and either say "hey that's great" or "ok, but I'm not going to take advantage so I don't care".

There was a distinct difference when it was announced and added. And well, that could very well be coincidential I would not dare to say I know. Anyway I have the same beliefs that you have here so in a way I'm not shure on which foot to stand. (Other than ofcourse that I think things looked quite bright a few months ago.)

Oh, I wouldn't doubt that the game lost players because of the station exchange. Now, if they come back... well that's another thing.

I think players who rage against RMT should also realize that all popular games have RMT. The difference is whether or not it comes from a secondary company or the company that creates/publishes the game.

So if some players just refuse to play a game that incorporates RMT are they also extending that decisioin to games that have secondary market support? I don't exactly see a difference in the end result which is that someone is paying money for goods and services and is getting them. That end result is that someone is still getting things for cash and didn't have to take part in the game that rewarded those things.

Now, for a PvE game it is really less of a big deal in my opinion. It's when there is pvp or some sort of competition that I think it becomes a huge issue.

IN any case I hope that the people who left because of the Station Exchange will at some point reconsider.

Originally posted by Daffid011

It find it really conflicting when someone says soe "saved" vanguard.

 

Sure they rescued it from closing down, but beyond that it feels more like they pulled it from the ash pile to pillage subscribers for EQ2 and the better developers and then kicked it to the curb. 

I dont think that SOE only bought the game to siphon players to EQ2, BUT even if they did it didnt work.      EQ2 is in the same shape at least populationwise as Vanguard. Sure Eq2 has more servers and more over all players but they are all mostly end game level. 10-60 is just as tedious and hard to get consistant groups as Vanguard.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Orphes

As far as RMT, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the average person doesn't care. I'm sure there are a lot of gamers who come to forums who rage against that sort of thing and I completely understand why. However, the average person/player doesn't really post on forums, sometimes reads them and in many cases from what I've heard don't even know they exist. I'm sure they here that station exchange has been added and either say "hey that's great" or "ok, but I'm not going to take advantage so I don't care".

There was a distinct difference when it was announced and added. And well, that could very well be coincidential I would not dare to say I know. Anyway I have the same beliefs that you have here so in a way I'm not shure on which foot to stand. (Other than ofcourse that I think things looked quite bright a few months ago.)

Oh, I wouldn't doubt that the game lost players because of the station exchange. Now, if they come back... well that's another thing.

I think players who rage against RMT should also realize that all popular games have RMT. The difference is whether or not it comes from a secondary company or the company that creates/publishes the game.

So if some players just refuse to play a game that incorporates RMT are they also extending that decisioin to games that have secondary market support? I don't exactly see a difference in the end result which is that someone is paying money for goods and services and is getting them. That end result is that someone is still getting things for cash and didn't have to take part in the game that rewarded those things.

Now, for a PvE game it is really less of a big deal in my opinion. It's when there is pvp or some sort of competition that I think it becomes a huge issue.

IN any case I hope that the people who left because of the Station Exchange will at some point reconsider.

Station Exchange at least in regards to Vanguard has made NO impact. Go and search whats offered BY OTHER PLAYERS at the exchnage. Last time I looked there was a handful of plat for sell(at prices higher than most goldsellers) and just a handful of character for sale( alot of them stupid stuff like below lvl 20). So anyone who used the Station Exchange as an excuse to leave Vanguard was already looking for ANY excuse to leave.

Originally posted by Nizur

 

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Originally posted by Bodeus

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Originally posted by Nizur
Sounds like their dev team is really tiny. It's cool to see they've got updates to diplomacy in the works, as well as some other updates, but they look to be stretched really thin. People handling more than one aspect of the game and so on.
The more I read about it, the more I'm convinced SOE is intentionally letting VG whither. It's been mentioned here, in the game and in this interview that a lot of people working on and playing the game consider it to be the real EQ2. It's more like EQ than SOE's EQ2. Instead of embracing this sentiment and investing time, resources and money into VG, SOE snaps it up and does nothing with it. SOE needs to pull their heads out of their asses and realize what they've got.

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LMAO i just love how Vanguards lack of success is everyones and everythings fault except the game.

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So even with a good development team and money to back everything up, you don't think VG would be a better game?

probably could !but sony has big financial issue and vanguard is the last of the issue they got in their mind ,right now sony is probably serching for ways to cut cost everywhere ,same for blizzard (reason being activision lack of success ,blizzard as to back activision up witch im sorry to say hurt blizzard money account)

so when you cut cost, cut cost, cut cost  the game suffer .and its not gona be just eq,eq2,vanguard .every piece of sony will be hurt because of cost cutting.every game maker that tried to cut corner or cost in game go hurt very bad in the end                        you cant make a pizza with a dime ,and thats exactly what sony is trying to do

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Orphes

As far as RMT, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the average person doesn't care. I'm sure there are a lot of gamers who come to forums who rage against that sort of thing and I completely understand why. However, the average person/player doesn't really post on forums, sometimes reads them and in many cases from what I've heard don't even know they exist. I'm sure they here that station exchange has been added and either say "hey that's great" or "ok, but I'm not going to take advantage so I don't care".

There was a distinct difference when it was announced and added. And well, that could very well be coincidential I would not dare to say I know. Anyway I have the same beliefs that you have here so in a way I'm not shure on which foot to stand. (Other than ofcourse that I think things looked quite bright a few months ago.)

Oh, I wouldn't doubt that the game lost players because of the station exchange. Now, if they come back... well that's another thing.

I think players who rage against RMT should also realize that all popular games have RMT. The difference is whether or not it comes from a secondary company or the company that creates/publishes the game.

So if some players just refuse to play a game that incorporates RMT are they also extending that decisioin to games that have secondary market support? I don't exactly see a difference in the end result which is that someone is paying money for goods and services and is getting them. That end result is that someone is still getting things for cash and didn't have to take part in the game that rewarded those things.

Now, for a PvE game it is really less of a big deal in my opinion. It's when there is pvp or some sort of competition that I think it becomes a huge issue.

IN any case I hope that the people who left because of the Station Exchange will at some point reconsider.

I think you are over simplifying the situation to unrealistic measures.  There is so much difference between eula breaking rmt and company sponsored rmt.   

Company sponsored RMT not only encourages more people to partake, but it also changes the design goals of a company.  It is a conflict of interest, because they make more money by withholding content from the players and instead selling it as an after market addon.  Something as slight as reducing AA experience (just for example) can push more people towards buying xp potions to supplement what was once a pure in game effort.  It is a huge conflict of interest when companies start to cross that line, even if the results are not as obvious as buying an uber set of armor (which is something soe is considering).  There are far to many factors that are in control of the game company that affect their revenue from rmt to not pose a conflict to good game design (fun first). 

Vanguard was the wrong game for station exchange anyhow considering the playerbase.  Kind of like buying shoes for cat.

Hey guys, I just wanted to stop in and mention that if you guys have any questions about Vanguard or any SOE games please reply to the article in my original post or feel free to bring it up in our forums and we will do our best top get them addressed(by speaking to SOE directly).

Thanks!

Originally posted by Bodeus

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Orphes

As far as RMT, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the average person doesn't care. I'm sure there are a lot of gamers who come to forums who rage against that sort of thing and I completely understand why. However, the average person/player doesn't really post on forums, sometimes reads them and in many cases from what I've heard don't even know they exist. I'm sure they here that station exchange has been added and either say "hey that's great" or "ok, but I'm not going to take advantage so I don't care".

There was a distinct difference when it was announced and added. And well, that could very well be coincidential I would not dare to say I know. Anyway I have the same beliefs that you have here so in a way I'm not shure on which foot to stand. (Other than ofcourse that I think things looked quite bright a few months ago.)

Oh, I wouldn't doubt that the game lost players because of the station exchange. Now, if they come back... well that's another thing.

I think players who rage against RMT should also realize that all popular games have RMT. The difference is whether or not it comes from a secondary company or the company that creates/publishes the game.

So if some players just refuse to play a game that incorporates RMT are they also extending that decisioin to games that have secondary market support? I don't exactly see a difference in the end result which is that someone is paying money for goods and services and is getting them. That end result is that someone is still getting things for cash and didn't have to take part in the game that rewarded those things.

Now, for a PvE game it is really less of a big deal in my opinion. It's when there is pvp or some sort of competition that I think it becomes a huge issue.

IN any case I hope that the people who left because of the Station Exchange will at some point reconsider.

Station Exchange at least in regards to Vanguard has made NO impact. Go and search whats offered BY OTHER PLAYERS at the exchnage. Last time I looked there was a handful of plat for sell(at prices higher than most goldsellers) and just a handful of character for sale( alot of them stupid stuff like below lvl 20). So anyone who used the Station Exchange as an excuse to leave Vanguard was already looking for ANY excuse to leave.

That is somewhat incorrect.  I signed up and didn't know about the RTM stuff.  When I found out, I almost cancled before even finishing the download of the game.

Simply put:  Every big city has drug problems but they don't go opening up vendor stands to sell the stuff themselves.

So no, I don't see an exodus of folks due to this as "any excuse".  They see the trend the company is following and decide not to support that type of activity.  Myself, I stuck around and saw how big a flop it was and decided I'll keep playing and I've enjoyed the game a great deal.

Unlike most who post here, I'm not too worried about its future.  SOE has it in "self maintenance" mode as in it pays for its own future.  As a newer player, I have 2 years of existing game content to play before hitting "max level" and starting to worry about running out of things to do.  That'll last me quite a while with the diversity of activities in the game.

Now if I'd played since beta days, I might bemoan the lack of more content flowing out every couple months and an ever expanding world but coming in at this point...  There are mass activities for me to do.  Plenty of folks for me to game with when I want and tons of stuff for me to deal with solo.  The world is vast and I've had a heck of a fun time exploring it and crafting items for my guys to use -- including 6 server first discoveries and 3 world first discoveries while crafting things my guys use (the game tracks that stuff and lets you know when you make something nobody else has made and the like).

Bugs get fixed.  Not as fast as some games but I go back in gaming far enough to be able to point out bugs that were in EQ at ship that still exist and the like.  It'd be nice if there were more subscribers to pay for more developmenet but, again, there are tons of things for me to do right now so... I'll stick around a while and have fun playing.

Originally posted by Eleazaros 

Simply put:  Every big city has drug problems but they don't go opening up vendor stands to sell the stuff themselves.

Some countries do(legalise it), and some movements wants the drug to be legal to make the illegal issues and consequences less of an impact.

Originally posted by Bodeus

Originally posted by Nizur

 

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<snip>... If a product is half-baked, is it the products fault or the people who launched the product?

 

Its the fault of people who wasted time, resources and money during development with relationship drama and drug use.

Exactly,

Only the idea of costs to trully revamp the character models and their animations is reason enough for SOE to let it wither and die.

Not to mention the sheer inconsistency in gameworld design. One moment you walk into a beautiful designed zone and the next one makes your stomach turn.

To revamp that and bring everything in line to make it consistent, will cost even more.

Not to mention that Silius is litterly destroying the game piece by piece with each craptastic update.

Cheers