Originally posted by Alxgranger

Originally posted by Vallkyra

 I'm actually enjoying the middle ground, not to mention the PvP all the way through to make it interesting.

 

PVP all the way through is only fun if its pplat or around your lvl, but like every game you're gonna have the losers who jsut HAVE TO gank and grief on lowbies to feel better about themselves, cuz they indeed suck at PVP themselves.

Indeed, I got to see some of this in the CN Retail, but in our version they will have put in anti griefing methods that punishes you everytime you pick on someone 5? or 10? levels under you.  Keep doing it and you'll lose spawn points in enemy realms and be weakened to the point they'll kill you easily.  Think of it as a PvP based rez sickness related to griefing.

To be completely honest, I think grinding sometimes can help a game and community.  I look at the old days of EQ.  Very few classes could solo effeciently, there werent many quests, and the main source of leveling was to group and grind certain monsters or camps. 

I think what they did with EQ was real good.  Leveling was extremely slow, but getting items for your current level actualy lasted and was worth getting.  Not like wow where the weapon you just found is outdated and no good 30 minutes later when your already 2 levels higher.  When you had to group to level you actualy got to know your group, chat and have a good time.  I certainly didnt mind sitting in the same spot with a group of friends for 4 hours killing the same Tigers/birds/rhinos/etc. 

Today, you find a group for an instance, its over in under 30mins and thats it.  Usualy if you die, someones a newb, leaves group etc etc.  I cant count the amount of times ive done 25man VoA Emalon with a Pug and after the first wipe 10 people leave.  What they need to do is make grinding worthwhile like EQ did.  For anyone that doesnt know what im talking about.  EQ had many camps and zones where you could sit and grind with a group and farm a named monster that could spawn for GREAT loot for your current level.   Leveling took MUCH longer then anything in wow.  I remember it taking about 8 hours or more at the Sarnak Fort to go from about 24 to 25.  There were 50 levels at that time. 

So my point is,  games like WoW made it way to easy to level has ruined what true MMOs should be like.  Grinding really isnt bad if its done correctly.  Now i dont mind Solo play,  but like EQ it should be far slower and more difficult to do.  Id rather Grind then do millions of pointless quests.

Originally posted by sbfbeef

To be completely honest, I think grinding sometimes can help a game and community.  I look at the old days of EQ.  Very few classes could solo effeciently, there werent many quests, and the main source of leveling was to group and grind certain monsters or camps.

Sounds like a horrible and extremely limiting gaming experience.

Originally posted by sbfbeef

To be completely honest, I think grinding sometimes can help a game and community.  I look at the old days of EQ.  Very few classes could solo effeciently, there werent many quests, and the main source of leveling was to group and grind certain monsters or camps. 

I think what they did with EQ was real good.  Leveling was extremely slow, but getting items for your current level actualy lasted and was worth getting.  Not like wow where the weapon you just found is outdated and no good 30 minutes later when your already 2 levels higher.  When you had to group to level you actualy got to know your group, chat and have a good time.  I certainly didnt mind sitting in the same spot with a group of friends for 4 hours killing the same Tigers/birds/rhinos/etc. 

Today, you find a group for an instance, its over in under 30mins and thats it.  Usualy if you die, someones a newb, leaves group etc etc.  I cant count the amount of times ive done 25man VoA Emalon with a Pug and after the first wipe 10 people leave.  What they need to do is make grinding worthwhile like EQ did.  For anyone that doesnt know what im talking about.  EQ had many camps and zones where you could sit and grind with a group and farm a named monster that could spawn for GREAT loot for your current level.   Leveling took MUCH longer then anything in wow.  I remember it taking about 8 hours or more at the Sarnak Fort to go from about 24 to 25.  There were 50 levels at that time. 

So my point is,  games like WoW made it way to easy to level has ruined what true MMOs should be like.  Grinding really isnt bad if its done correctly.  Now i dont mind Solo play,  but like EQ it should be far slower and more difficult to do.  Id rather Grind then do millions of pointless quests.

You should play EQ now. It's drastically different. Leveling in EQ now is pretty quick before level 50. Game is still a blast though, especially with the better UI.

So far in aion I never had to ''just go kill shit mindlessly to level my toon'' . I have leveled by quests mostly which opens up the story arch of whats going on in the lands, of course one could just kill shit to level, but why would they want too, theres always a reason to kill shit and a story behind what yer doing, this is why I love Aion so far.

Originally posted by sbfbeef

...So my point is,  games like WoW made it way to easy to level has ruined FOR ME what true MMOs should be like...

Talking in absolutes is fun, eh?  Grind can be ok if it is made to feel necessary for the concept/storyline of the game.  You kill a certain number of the enemy, you are contributing to the war effort.  If you kill a certain number of vermin, you are protecting travelers in the forest, or you are collecting ingredients for a potion.  If the stuff you are killing is a challenge(ie NOT boars), that works. 

Grind for sheer leveling is only if you are someone who sits in front of the comp playing the game 6-10 hours a day, 5-7 hours a week, with a bad skin condition and belly cheese/anorexic build("LIVE TO WIN!  YEAH!").  Other people, the casual players who are 99.9 percent of the gamers(read: not you), prefer to feel like they are a part of a world or journey.  Grinding to level is not fun unless you are ADHD, in which case, you have my sympathies.  If a person wants grind, they can go into data entry or one of a jillion other jobs.

Of course, that is my opinion, not an absolute.  OT, I don't see grind in Aion, and from what I have seen from the Korean/Chinese players, they have added more quests/plot lines to eliminate the grinding aspect.  I'm not afraid of any grind in this game.  They have done a good job of making all the quests/missions feel relevant rather than work.  After all, a game is made for us to have fun, right?

i played wow for 4 years, It took me 3 weeks to hit max level in WoW when it first came out... but 4 months just to finish my teir 1 set, and 2 months alone doing black rock just to get dal rends.

I played lineage for 3 years, same time as i played wow, took me 2 years to get to level 70, never really hit max level in lineage 2, wasnt a need too, i could still do everything, siege, pvp, party, etc.

SO whats teh real difference? Everyone is obsessed with getting to the max level as fast as possible, but the only reason to want to do that is to be able to take part in everything the game offers. If you can party , pvp and rvr in the abyss around lets say, 25, will you still be in a rush to grind to max level, is your goal to play the game or to see how fast you can blow through the content?

The only time you should be concerned about the grind is, if there is another expansion coming out that improves on the end game and yous till havent made it to the endgame yet.

It's numbing to see how many people, instead of playing the game, want to spend tens or hundreds of hours on one monotonous task that anyone who could slide their face across the keyboard could accomplish.

And you guys actually call this shit content. 

I guess I'm unique in this thread in that I don't believe that I should be required to do a chore before I'm able to access what I already paid money for.

As long as the gameplay is fun and I'm enjoing the game, then nope not scared of the grind.

re Snievan: several people, including me, said that.  You are not a unique snowflake.

Originally posted by haggus71

re Snievan: several people, including me, said that.  You are not a unique snowflake.

I don't care if I feel like I'm part of the world or not. I don't care about contributing to whatever effort is at the center of the game. 

I could only believe that if I let myself believe it, and I'm not going to even pretend I care what's going on or the story behind it.

So while we might share some similarities in our views, they're not the same, because I don't think something as disengaging as standard MMO grind is okay in any way.

Originally posted by Snievan

Originally posted by haggus71

re Snievan: several people, including me, said that.  You are not a unique snowflake.

I don't care if I feel like I'm part of the world or not. I don't care about contributing to whatever effort is at the center of the game. 

I could only believe that if I let myself believe it, and I'm not going to even pretend I care what's going on or the story behind it.

So while we might share some similarities in our views, they're not the same, because I don't think something as disengaging as standard MMO grind is okay in any way.

If you dont  like questing or story perhaps RPG's arnt for you.  Ive never understood the mad rush to level cap myself but if its PVP your after maybe Warhammer would be a good game for you but i doubt it as im sure you will find plenty to cry about in that game as well. The only game your interested in is the trolling game but even that you do not play very well.

Originally posted by wrongfeifong

please don't call FFXI 12-75 a grind. I enjoy it more then playing wow from 1-80 and playing lineage 2 and Age of conan.

FFXI was never a grind to me when i get 14 levels a day and 7 more level the next day from 10 to 31 and 37 by 3rd day in 5 hour player time every day. Then its roughly 1 hour a level till 55 which takes 2-3 hours each to 75.

anyway back to the point.

How rough is the grind per level beyond 50?

When the hell did that happen? God I remember grinding for DAYS to level..

Originally posted by Djfusion

Originally posted by wrongfeifong

please don't call FFXI 12-75 a grind. I enjoy it more then playing wow from 1-80 and playing lineage 2 and Age of conan.

FFXI was never a grind to me when i get 14 levels a day and 7 more level the next day from 10 to 31 and 37 by 3rd day in 5 hour player time every day. Then its roughly 1 hour a level till 55 which takes 2-3 hours each to 75.

anyway back to the point.

How rough is the grind per level beyond 50?

 

When the hell did that happen? God I remember grinding for DAYS to level..

I'm playing now too and the leveling is A LOT easier then it used to be. It is about one hour per level now.

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by Djfusion

Originally posted by wrongfeifong

please don't call FFXI 12-75 a grind. I enjoy it more then playing wow from 1-80 and playing lineage 2 and Age of conan.

FFXI was never a grind to me when i get 14 levels a day and 7 more level the next day from 10 to 31 and 37 by 3rd day in 5 hour player time every day. Then its roughly 1 hour a level till 55 which takes 2-3 hours each to 75.

anyway back to the point.

How rough is the grind per level beyond 50?

 

When the hell did that happen? God I remember grinding for DAYS to level..

 

I'm playing now too and the leveling is A LOT easier then it used to be. It is about one hour per level now.

75/37 rdm/whm, Never left qufim go figure.

I played Lineage 2 for 3 years, I don't think I'm afraid of Aion grind.

Originally posted by Vallkyra

75/37 rdm/whm, Never left qufim go figure.

Never left Quifim? What?

XD

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by Djfusion

Originally posted by wrongfeifong

please don't call FFXI 12-75 a grind. I enjoy it more then playing wow from 1-80 and playing lineage 2 and Age of conan.

FFXI was never a grind to me when i get 14 levels a day and 7 more level the next day from 10 to 31 and 37 by 3rd day in 5 hour player time every day. Then its roughly 1 hour a level till 55 which takes 2-3 hours each to 75.

anyway back to the point.

How rough is the grind per level beyond 50?

 

When the hell did that happen? God I remember grinding for DAYS to level..

 

I'm playing now too and the leveling is A LOT easier then it used to be. It is about one hour per level now.

Any PvP in that game yet? I remember trying the game a long time ago and altough a bit too dependant on you having a group I thought it was a solid MMORPG. However the lack of PvP completely turned me of.

i honestly like the slower lvling anymore, tho when i first played a faster lvling game (wow) i loved the fact i could solo or me and my gf could duo without lfg for hours. but its gotten stale, i've noticed we don't get to know people like we did back in the ol group grind games.we'd bs while we grind mobs ect, and in dungeon setting things aren't laid back enough to just bs as you go.hell there is usually very little talking in a dungeon run.

Aion isn't group forced but it goes alot faster with atleast one more, i get group invites quite often for a quest i could solo but would take me alot longer if i did and prolly die a few times doing it.invites from complete strangers hell usually by chinese and we don't know what each other is saying but we just link quests we're on and we get on teh same page easliy. tho i use a free translator from the net and i'll say something,translate it to chinese and crt/v it into group chat. would be nice if i could copy what they say and translate it.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Snievan

Originally posted by haggus71

re Snievan: several people, including me, said that.  You are not a unique snowflake.

I don't care if I feel like I'm part of the world or not. I don't care about contributing to whatever effort is at the center of the game. 

I could only believe that if I let myself believe it, and I'm not going to even pretend I care what's going on or the story behind it.

So while we might share some similarities in our views, they're not the same, because I don't think something as disengaging as standard MMO grind is okay in any way.

If you dont  like questing or story perhaps RPG's arnt for you.  Ive never understood the mad rush to level cap myself but if its PVP your after maybe Warhammer would be a good game for you but i doubt it as im sure you will find plenty to cry about in that game as well. The only game your interested in is the trolling game but even that you do not play very well.

I don't care about the story of MMOs because they're never presented well, not because I don't like RPGs in general. Like I said before, you get story through the tedious quests you're expected to grind through and when I've been asked to kill ten of this creature for the 100th time, I don't care enough to read the text anymore.

I'm playing Warhammer right now, actually. Since I can level through PvP rather than standing a single spot killing thousands of NPCs, it's bearable.

The mad rush to level cap is because if you want to PvP, you're going to be at a disadvantage against other players, you won't have unlocked the full potential of your class and you won't have access to the actually challenging, indepth quests and content at the endgame.