For most people who have tried out the Chinese or Korean beta or retail version, we have this huge grind beginning at level 20. It's not a grind where you kill monsters over and over again, but a grind where you have to do the same quest over and over again. What a drag...how boring.

Level 50 can take weeks or months for the casual.

We all know know the  Warhammer Online  scenario grind, the Aion quest grind, the Age of Conan level 70 to 80 Death  Master's Camp grind, Final Fantasy XI's level 12 to 75 grind. But, Aion has something next-gen.....

....at last version update 1.3....will have:

A. Battle-shugos

- This is supposed to be a fun leveling instance for people still stuck in the leveling stage of Aion. This instance will be designed like a ship with evolved Shugos that are hostile to the players.This instance is designed with casual players in mind and will contain many quests.

(Source: http://www.aionsource.com/forum/news-announcements/16696-content-update-1-3-semi-official-content-news.html)

Yup, NCSoft is working hard to rid the grind that is killing us all is these stereotype Asian Grinders.

Taking months to hit level cap I dont mind, actually I prefer it over WoW-type super fast leveling, but the leveling being boring I do mind.

WAR scenario grinding is the only welcome change since grinding other people is much more fun than grinding AI, be it quest or mobs. So the question is not if there will be grind or not, there will be, question is if it will be fun or not.

The only thing I am really afraid of is badgers, Aions grind didn't seem to trouble me to much, I have played much worse. However I am glad to hear they are giving us more opportunities to progress through the leveling proccess as painless as possible.

please don't call FFXI 12-75 a grind. I enjoy it more then playing wow from 1-80 and playing lineage 2 and Age of conan.

FFXI was never a grind to me when i get 14 levels a day and 7 more level the next day from 10 to 31 and 37 by 3rd day in 5 hour player time every day. Then its roughly 1 hour a level till 55 which takes 2-3 hours each to 75.

anyway back to the point.

How rough is the grind per level beyond 50?

It's really only a grind if you're not having any fun... imo

Who ever told you that lied. I'm level 35 in Chinese Retail. There is PLENTY of quest from 1 to 25 and there are hidden quest and quest on the other faction's world too. I think the only spike I hit was at 27-28, mainly because even though I know chinese, I'm not in my own community so getting help with the group missions is a bit fustrating.

what do you mean with "we have this huge grind beginning at level 20"

First of all, we have nothing. We can play Aion every two weeks for 3 days and that's it. None of us actually knows the beginning of level 20 of the finished game. The game isn't even out yet and and everybody is crying on the boards " weehhhhh Asian grinder QQ, it's not like WoW QQQQQQQQ"

Originally posted by Beber1

 

what do you mean with "we have this huge grind beginning at level 20"

First of all, we have nothing. We can play Aion every two weeks for 3 days and that's it. None of us actually knows the beginning of level 20 of the finished game. The game isn't even out yet and and everybody is crying on the boards " weehhhhh Asian grinder QQ, it's not like WoW QQQQQQQQ"

It's out in China and Korea.
I've played on the Chinese servers myself.
Riki has played more then me tho.
I only played to level 18.
So there are some of us here that do know.

I hear there is a area in around the 30s that had a dead area... but that was fixed in a patch.
I don't think the Chinese version got that patch yet, tho.

Syno has been saying this nonsense for awhile now, best just to ignore him.

Originally posted by Kuatosune

It's really only a grind if you're not having any fun... imo

Words to game by :D

If you have a look over at AionArmory, then there is no need for this thread.

The whole concept of complaining about grind is idiotic.  Even on a game that is easy and fast to level up such as WoW, most people that complain about grind are those who hit max level and quit the game once the raiding starts.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is that most people doesn't even understand what they want.

The truth of the matter is, most people doesn't really care about whether it is a grind or not to get to max level.  The real issue is with the current MMORPG's lack of creativity to make the grinding process more fun and less repetitive.  Grind is just an easy target for people to complain about without thinking past the surface of the problem.

Let's say there is this incredibly fun game, that have incredibly long grind to get to max level, however, the game is designed to make the players enjoy every single second of it, and minimize the amount of repetitive tasks.  However, the grind hater will always bitch about how long it takes to get to max level instead of focus on the fact that the grind is a mental state and not a game system.  It only feels like grinding if you don't have fun while leveling up, then why do you bother play a MMORPG?  You might as well play some other online game that doesn't involve character development at all. 

Originally posted by Neosai

The whole concept of complaining about grind is idiotic.  Even on a game that is easy and fast to level up such as WoW, most people that complain about grind are those who hit max level and quit the game once the raiding starts.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is that most people doesn't even understand what they want.

The truth of the matter is, most people doesn't really care about whether it is a grind or not to get to max level.  The real issue is with the current MMORPG's lack of creativity to make the grinding process more fun and less repetitive.  Grind is just an easy target for people to complain about without thinking past the surface of the problem.

Let's say there is this incredibly fun game, that have incredibly long grind to get to max level, however, the game is designed to make the players enjoy every single second of it, and minimize the amount of repetitive tasks.  However, the grind hater will always bitch about how long it takes to get to max level instead of focus on the fact that the grind is a mental state and not a game system.  It only feels like grinding if you don't have fun while leveling up, then why do you bother play a MMORPG?  You might as well play some other online game that doesn't involve character development at all. 

Quests in MMOs are all the same. They're boring fetch/kill tasks with nothing unique throughout. 

Why does grinding have to be a drawn out process? How about an MMO where leveling your character would take no more than twenty total hours? Instead of hundreds or thousands of unimaginative and repetitive tasks, we have a storyline like you'd find any singleplayer RPG with unique tasks, cutscenes and voice acting? 

Instead of spending so much time making text for hundreds of boring quests, designers could instead spend that time giving players an engrossing endgame.

There is no way to make grinding both take a long time and still stay fresh. There are only so many ideas and tasks you can put into a game before you run out.

Originally posted by Snievan

Originally posted by Neosai

The whole concept of complaining about grind is idiotic.  Even on a game that is easy and fast to level up such as WoW, most people that complain about grind are those who hit max level and quit the game once the raiding starts.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is that most people doesn't even understand what they want.

The truth of the matter is, most people doesn't really care about whether it is a grind or not to get to max level.  The real issue is with the current MMORPG's lack of creativity to make the grinding process more fun and less repetitive.  Grind is just an easy target for people to complain about without thinking past the surface of the problem.

Let's say there is this incredibly fun game, that have incredibly long grind to get to max level, however, the game is designed to make the players enjoy every single second of it, and minimize the amount of repetitive tasks.  However, the grind hater will always bitch about how long it takes to get to max level instead of focus on the fact that the grind is a mental state and not a game system.  It only feels like grinding if you don't have fun while leveling up, then why do you bother play a MMORPG?  You might as well play some other online game that doesn't involve character development at all. 

Quests in MMOs are all the same. They're boring fetch/kill tasks with nothing unique throughout. 

Why does grinding have to be a drawn out process? How about an MMO where leveling your character would take no more than twenty total hours? Instead of hundreds or thousands of unimaginative and repetitive tasks, we have a storyline like you'd find any singleplayer RPG with unique tasks, cutscenes and voice acting? 

Instead of spending so much time making text for hundreds of boring quests, designers could instead spend that time giving players an engrossing endgame.

There is no way to make grinding both take a long time and still stay fresh. There are only so many ideas and tasks you can put into a game before you run out.

I think that is a good idea and made a blog about 6 months ago about how game developers feel they need to make some of the time sink being the leveling and they didnt put anytime into the endgame b/c they spend alot of time on the leveling part of the game and then ran out of money then released the game with no endgame thinking they will be able to make it before people reaching the level cap. I feel they should make it so the leveling is quick and then focus all threir time and resources on endgame and pvp. We all know that alot of the mmo community only care about getting to that endgame content or getting started on pvp.

Originally posted by Snievan

Originally posted by Neosai

The whole concept of complaining about grind is idiotic.  Even on a game that is easy and fast to level up such as WoW, most people that complain about grind are those who hit max level and quit the game once the raiding starts.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is that most people doesn't even understand what they want.

The truth of the matter is, most people doesn't really care about whether it is a grind or not to get to max level.  The real issue is with the current MMORPG's lack of creativity to make the grinding process more fun and less repetitive.  Grind is just an easy target for people to complain about without thinking past the surface of the problem.

Let's say there is this incredibly fun game, that have incredibly long grind to get to max level, however, the game is designed to make the players enjoy every single second of it, and minimize the amount of repetitive tasks.  However, the grind hater will always bitch about how long it takes to get to max level instead of focus on the fact that the grind is a mental state and not a game system.  It only feels like grinding if you don't have fun while leveling up, then why do you bother play a MMORPG?  You might as well play some other online game that doesn't involve character development at all. 

Quests in MMOs are all the same. They're boring fetch/kill tasks with nothing unique throughout. 

Why does grinding have to be a drawn out process? How about an MMO where leveling your character would take no more than twenty total hours? Instead of hundreds or thousands of unimaginative and repetitive tasks, we have a storyline like you'd find any singleplayer RPG with unique tasks, cutscenes and voice acting? 

Instead of spending so much time making text for hundreds of boring quests, designers could instead spend that time giving players an engrossing endgame.

There is no way to make grinding both take a long time and still stay fresh. There are only so many ideas and tasks you can put into a game before you run out.

Did you even bother reading what I wrote?  I simply point out the problem that, being drawn out is not the problem here.  How to keep people entertained during the drawn out process of playing is key to a good game.

There is no need for the RPG factor is the game is all about endgame.  Sure, engrossing endgame is wonderful, however then why bother with the 12 hours of leveling up/skill up etc.  Why not just give you the endgame character the moment you create any character.  That was a pretty self defeating logic on your part.  The truth here is no developer have put enough work into the process of game play to reach endgame that is entertaining and not repetitive.

You said there is no way to make the process eaching max level take a good time and still stay fresh? I am sorry, I got 11 designs that says other wise.  If you want I'll even show you some of those ideas.  Variety you only need a small amount when it comes down to it, the problem is to make the player feel like they are not repeating the same thing when you combine them together.  There is also no rule that says engrossing endgame and fun "level up" process can't be both fun.  In fact, a great game need to have both, not just one or the other since that is basically current MMORPG industry.

Wouldn't an online multiplayer shooter or action game suit you better?  You know like ones you can customize so you can PRETEND you are playing an MMORPG.  Since it seems like that is what you wanted.

Originally posted by Neosai

Originally posted by Snievan

Originally posted by Neosai

The whole concept of complaining about grind is idiotic.  Even on a game that is easy and fast to level up such as WoW, most people that complain about grind are those who hit max level and quit the game once the raiding starts.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is that most people doesn't even understand what they want.

The truth of the matter is, most people doesn't really care about whether it is a grind or not to get to max level.  The real issue is with the current MMORPG's lack of creativity to make the grinding process more fun and less repetitive.  Grind is just an easy target for people to complain about without thinking past the surface of the problem.

Let's say there is this incredibly fun game, that have incredibly long grind to get to max level, however, the game is designed to make the players enjoy every single second of it, and minimize the amount of repetitive tasks.  However, the grind hater will always bitch about how long it takes to get to max level instead of focus on the fact that the grind is a mental state and not a game system.  It only feels like grinding if you don't have fun while leveling up, then why do you bother play a MMORPG?  You might as well play some other online game that doesn't involve character development at all. 

Quests in MMOs are all the same. They're boring fetch/kill tasks with nothing unique throughout. 

Why does grinding have to be a drawn out process? How about an MMO where leveling your character would take no more than twenty total hours? Instead of hundreds or thousands of unimaginative and repetitive tasks, we have a storyline like you'd find any singleplayer RPG with unique tasks, cutscenes and voice acting? 

Instead of spending so much time making text for hundreds of boring quests, designers could instead spend that time giving players an engrossing endgame.

There is no way to make grinding both take a long time and still stay fresh. There are only so many ideas and tasks you can put into a game before you run out.

 

Did you even bother reading what I wrote?  I simply point out the problem that, being drawn out is not the problem here.  How to keep people entertained during the drawn out process of playing is key to a good game.

There is no need for the RPG factor is the game is all about endgame.  Sure, engrossing endgame is wonderful, however then why bother with the 12 hours of leveling up/skill up etc.  Why not just give you the endgame character the moment you create any character.  That was a pretty self defeating logic on your part.  The truth here is no developer have put enough work into the process of game play to reach endgame that is entertaining and not repetitive.

You said there is no way to make the process eaching max level take a good time and still stay fresh? I am sorry, I got 11 designs that says other wise.  If you want I'll even show you some of those ideas.  Variety you only need a small amount when it comes down to it, the problem is to make the player feel like they are not repeating the same thing when you combine them together.  There is also no rule that says engrossing endgame and fun "level up" process can't be both fun.  In fact, a great game need to have both, not just one or the other since that is basically current MMORPG industry.

Wouldn't an online multiplayer shooter or action game suit you better?  You know like ones you can customize so you can PRETEND you are playing an MMORPG.  Since it seems like that is what you wanted.

I would like to see some of the ideas posted b/c Ive played just about everything from you just grind from lvl 1-cap and grinded quests from 1-cap and also a mix. Also have played games that have pvp that helps you level. I feel every game is suited to someones needs or likes. Also the 11 ideas that you have may not be good for a few people or even most of the community but I will tell you be prepared when posting them for flaming. The MMO community imo is one of the most opinionated group which is good b/c it helps better the game industry. And you never know if you post them, maybe a dev or a low budget game dev will look at it and say that is a great idea lets try it.

Originally posted by Snievan

Originally posted by Neosai

The whole concept of complaining about grind is idiotic.  Even on a game that is easy and fast to level up such as WoW, most people that complain about grind are those who hit max level and quit the game once the raiding starts.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is that most people doesn't even understand what they want.

The truth of the matter is, most people doesn't really care about whether it is a grind or not to get to max level.  The real issue is with the current MMORPG's lack of creativity to make the grinding process more fun and less repetitive.  Grind is just an easy target for people to complain about without thinking past the surface of the problem.

Let's say there is this incredibly fun game, that have incredibly long grind to get to max level, however, the game is designed to make the players enjoy every single second of it, and minimize the amount of repetitive tasks.  However, the grind hater will always bitch about how long it takes to get to max level instead of focus on the fact that the grind is a mental state and not a game system.  It only feels like grinding if you don't have fun while leveling up, then why do you bother play a MMORPG?  You might as well play some other online game that doesn't involve character development at all. 

Quests in MMOs are all the same. They're boring fetch/kill tasks with nothing unique throughout. 

Why does grinding have to be a drawn out process? How about an MMO where leveling your character would take no more than twenty total hours? Instead of hundreds or thousands of unimaginative and repetitive tasks, we have a storyline like you'd find any singleplayer RPG with unique tasks, cutscenes and voice acting? 

Instead of spending so much time making text for hundreds of boring quests, designers could instead spend that time giving players an engrossing endgame.

There is no way to make grinding both take a long time and still stay fresh. There are only so many ideas and tasks you can put into a game before you run out.

The issue isn't if they are all the same or not. Its whether YOU as a player enjoy the game or not.   I've never considered any quest a grind. I enjoy them.  The missus just LOVES killing the same mobs over and over, to her, that is where she has fun.  To me, I think its a grind. To her, quests are a grind.   Ultimately, your opinion on a grind isn't the same as  someone elses so why do people keep bringing up posts like these? 

As for an engrossing endgame... For whom?   What could be Fantastically interesting to you or I could be the worst tripe to  99.99999% of the gamers out there.  And.. As much as it may be interesting to the few,  Designers are in it for a living so look to pleasing the many.

Originally posted by beauxaj

Originally posted by Snievan

Originally posted by Neosai

The whole concept of complaining about grind is idiotic.  Even on a game that is easy and fast to level up such as WoW, most people that complain about grind are those who hit max level and quit the game once the raiding starts.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is that most people doesn't even understand what they want.

The truth of the matter is, most people doesn't really care about whether it is a grind or not to get to max level.  The real issue is with the current MMORPG's lack of creativity to make the grinding process more fun and less repetitive.  Grind is just an easy target for people to complain about without thinking past the surface of the problem.

Let's say there is this incredibly fun game, that have incredibly long grind to get to max level, however, the game is designed to make the players enjoy every single second of it, and minimize the amount of repetitive tasks.  However, the grind hater will always bitch about how long it takes to get to max level instead of focus on the fact that the grind is a mental state and not a game system.  It only feels like grinding if you don't have fun while leveling up, then why do you bother play a MMORPG?  You might as well play some other online game that doesn't involve character development at all. 

Quests in MMOs are all the same. They're boring fetch/kill tasks with nothing unique throughout. 

Why does grinding have to be a drawn out process? How about an MMO where leveling your character would take no more than twenty total hours? Instead of hundreds or thousands of unimaginative and repetitive tasks, we have a storyline like you'd find any singleplayer RPG with unique tasks, cutscenes and voice acting? 

Instead of spending so much time making text for hundreds of boring quests, designers could instead spend that time giving players an engrossing endgame.

There is no way to make grinding both take a long time and still stay fresh. There are only so many ideas and tasks you can put into a game before you run out.

 

The issue isn't if they are all the same or not. Its whether YOU as a player enjoy the game or not.   I've never considered any quest a grind. I enjoy them.  The missus just LOVES killing the same mobs over and over, to her, that is where she has fun.  To me, I think its a grind. To her, quests are a grind.   Ultimately, your opinion on a grind isn't the same as  someone elses so why do people keep bringing up posts like these? 

As for an engrossing endgame... For whom?   What could be Fantastically interesting to you or I could be the worst tripe to  99.99999% of the gamers out there.  And.. As much as it may be interesting to the few,  Designers are in it for a living so look to pleasing the many.

I would like to see the grind as an endgame content like lets say how FFXI, there is alot to do endgame wise, you have compains, raids or lets say WOW for another example, they dont think you need to grind either as much or they would have made DK's start at 1. Now that could have been too so they didnt have to spend as much time on creating gear for them in the lower lvl instances but still you only have to lvl 25 lvls to get to cap and then you start your grind in the endgame content like Raids, rep, achievements, 5 man groups, farming, etc. I just see more people staying with games that you put the grind part of the game in the end of it instead through the lvling process and then you have to do it again at the end. Another pro to making it faster lvling and doing the grind at the end of the game is, I have started playing a game that my friend said "hey come over to my game and play", then I do but he is lvl capped and doing all the end game content. How many times have you quit the game b/c your friend is too busy to help get you where he is, I have. Wouldnt it be great if you didnt have to do months of grinding to get where you buddy is but you only have to level maybe 3-4 weeks and then you are ready to do stuff you rguildies or friends?

To me the grind begins after level cap and you decide to roll an alt.  Even with different starting areas its not long before they end up in the same place to continue onward. Bree in LOTRO, in WOW for me it was STV be it horde or alliance. First time through i enjoyed it as i like questing and discovering new areas. After capping my main and reaching Bree, STV or whatever the place may be in a given game with an alt ,is when it goes downhill for me.

I really haven't been bothered by it, I think mostly because I actually find the combat fun.

Yes, it's the same as every other static target number pressing MMO out there, but the animations and battles are just plain fun, in my opinion. Heck, this is the only game that I've ever hoped for a knockdown so I could see my toon do that nifty jump flip thing from the ground.

Originally posted by Syno23

For most people who have tried out the Chinese or Korean beta or retail version, we have this huge grind beginning at level 20. It's not a grind where you kill monsters over and over again, but a grind where you have to do the same quest over and over again. What a drag...how boring.

Level 50 can take weeks or months for the casual.

We all know know the  Warhammer Online  scenario grind, the Aion quest grind, the Age of Conan level 70 to 80 Death  Master's Camp grind, Final Fantasy XI's level 12 to 75 grind. But, Aion has something next-gen.....

....at last version update 1.3....will have:

A. Battle-shugos

- This is supposed to be a fun leveling instance for people still stuck in the leveling stage of Aion. This instance will be designed like a ship with evolved Shugos that are hostile to the players.This instance is designed with casual players in mind and will contain many quests.

(Source: http://www.aionsource.com/forum/news-announcements/16696-content-update-1-3-semi-official-content-news.html)

Yup, NCSoft is working hard to rid the grind that is killing us all is these stereotype Asian Grinders.

From what I understood the China version was 2 versions behind the Korean, and in those 2 updates they addressed a lot of those issues adding dungeons and many more quests.