Originally posted by Zeppelin4

I have been looking for a new mmo the last two years. What I have found is just Wow clones with some minor vairations. Some focus on pvp more while others focus on pve more. Many seem to ignore crafting for the most part. :( What I see from all the reviews and forums is this game is no different then any other clone of the last few years except it seems to have more polish. But what do I know I have yet to play it. 0_0

in my opinion, Aion has a pretty robust crafting system and player market system. I would head over to aionsource and read up on it if you are interested. The crafted items at end game rival some of the abyss armors for certain builds, and crafting is not a given since there are chances to craft higher quality versions of the same armor.

Cheers!

Just be happy Aion even exists everybody! :P

We all love RPG's and need our fix. I personally have high hopes with Aion as it really does look like NCsoft is trying hard to improve the game and make it be as fun as they possibly can. Just look at the translated korean patchnotes, 1.1, 1.2 , now 1.3 with more PvE content as in instances and quests for people who don't wish to be in the abyss 24/7 resulting in more items of course, also more stigmas/slots, more manastones, crafting recipes etc. cant find the link for the 1.3 translation atm but you get the idea. Sure the game has already been out for a year in korea but thats a good thing, critical bugs, server stability, most major balance issues and all those tedious things are already worked out so now they can work on content as you can see with 1.3

As I recall it took blizzard sooo long for just 1 patch that actually had new content in WoW. Any early WoW player remember how long it took them for Maraudon? then Dire Maul a couple of months after that? Battlegrounds and MC followed and but it was very limited, laggy, loooong queue times for the BG's with no proper rewards or nothing. Dont get me wrong am not trying to compare the two games but if you think about it, you cant judge a MMORPG of this scale in a few short beta events.

Another point I'd like to make for the people saying this should be F2P, well with Aion you're not just paying for gameplay, you're also paying for art. For example it takes a great deal of creativity and developement time to come up with those giant Giraff Elephant things in the lvl 10 Asmodia town, the huge floating Stingrays, the character customization, animations, general world layout and small things like unique design of trees etc... those things are all top-notch and really do help to give you the feeling that you're playing something extraordinary. Now compare that to something like perfect world, Jade Dynasty or any of those F2P games with huge empty spaces and a thousand monsters that all look the same then think again :)

Thanks for reading.

OK, I'm not going to lie.  I'm far too lazy to read all 5 pages, but let me say this much:  It's tiresome hearing people talk about choices and customization for a character via talent trees or starting zones.

What I mean by this is that only the illusion of choice is there.  I'm going to use WoW as an example, because I have the most experience with it(4ish years).   With WoW, you can quest in different areas, etc.  But when it comes down to it, you are still going to kill a bunch of these and gather a bunch of those.  The only difference is really what you kill,  what you gather, and where you are(Forest vs barren land being a choice really does not make me feel any better about trying to level to cap again at all).  Yes, there are a few random different break of the mold quests, but not many.

As for talent trees, yea you have infinite possibilities with customization...Oh wait, no you don't.  If you aren't running a cookie-cutter spec, you are gimping yourself, and will most likely be spat on for it.  Any form of hybrid specs formed with player creativity are generally nerfed into the ground very soon after they are created.  While each class has 3 talent trees full of possibility, you still only have 2-3 actual VIABLE specs.  So the choices aren't so deep and amazing as people like to think.  It would be one thing if they perfectly balanced trees to be able to spend points in any way, but that is more or less impossible and people will always be pigeon-holed into certain specs.  Not to mention, because of the talent trees and Blizzards newfound inability to make good balancing choices, there can never be any form of real class balance in that game.

This isn't a flame on WoW btw.  I did enjoy playing it, but it got old.  But seriously, people need to stop acting like 'infinite possibilities' exist in so many MMO's.  In the end, the most optimal road will be the ONLY road most people take.  On a final note, this game is also new.  Better to see the developers start with little options and make said options very polished, instead of overwhelming themselves and ending up cutting and/or messing up half of the implemented game*Cough WAR cough*  They can always build on the game as they go, taking it one step at a time.  To be honest, I rather like that approach more then zerging badly done content.

Originally posted by Bastioni

Fair, if they can't make more than one race and don't have enough money then they should have made it F2P. Blizzard and Lotro, huge companies and IP can afford P2P and I think it's cool if they charge a monthly sub. 

Small Korean company which charges full price for a year old game in the West = ripoff sorry, has to be said.

The game is 59 EURO here in the store..hello?..insane.

You don't know jack about MMOs, all your posts in this threads are completely ridiculous. Comparing a PvE game with a PvP one based on faction warfare..... Stating NCsoft is a SMALL company.

Just no. lol.

Originally posted by Wingma

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by zymurgeist 

It's an obstacle but it's one that can be overcome. Diablo was an exceedingly shallow game. So much so that many refuse to call it an RPG at all. Yet it was very popular and had great replayability. It really depends on things like the community that develops in and around the game. Most people play to be with their friends. Simple games can be fun too.

 

There's a difference, Diablo didn't try to portray an elaborate story or environment, Diablo didn't come out and say "our story is awesome, bla bla bla....bull". NCsoft does, all the trailers NCWest brings out are about the "story" which is as shallow as Hello Kitty. All the movies from gametrailers which are used as promotional material also try to suggest the game is from the West and that somehow the West influenced the game or had Western designer, it didn't, it was a total Korean project, I think that's quite unfair and dishonest,..whatever.

If that were Aion's only problem, if only..the world is full of empty spaces and the cities are just empty everywhere, shallow, unfinished and missing life. It doesn't deserve to be an AAA title, because it isn't.

 

What's ironic is that this image looks exactly like Silvermoon... Which also begs the obvious, most MMORPGs have these empty aspects anyway.

Either way, WoW is so shallow now days that you can't even splash if you tried it out. All the old world stuff is still there and still quite deep, everything else however is made up of Commander Blizzard telling you where to go in a purely linear game. MMORPGs are all empty now days, there isn't any point in arguing whether or not Aion will be empty since empty is what defines the genre atm.

How do you define what shallow and what is not? Last time I checked the Lich King saying 'hey, adventure!' in half the easy-arsed instances and in most of the major questlines is shallow and you might as well reward me for moving two steps forward like Free Realms.

What makes Aion so much better then all the other rubbish out there? Meh, I'll save my judgement for the moment.

Actually very good points Wingma, just goes to prove that others are the "$oE" of post quality and critiques.

Originally posted by Vendayn

I forgot about Eve Online in my list...not sure how I did that. Thats a sandbox, and is a success...but it seems more of an exception than the rule. And Runescape is a sandbox browser game...free to do as you wish, and that is a really popular game too.

So yeah, guess sandbox games can be popular...a lot of themepark MMOs have failed as well (AoC/WAR etc).

 

I started playing MMOs when Ultima Online was released. Sandbox games can be a great success if done right, but they need to be quality games from the start.
 

As for your list:

 - Auto Assault:     never tried that. Just driving around in cars shooting each other didn't seem too exciting

 - Saga of Ryzom:  never tried it because I did not like the races. They looked too weird.

 - Vanguard:    did try it and it could have been a big success but SOE messed it up with a premature launch / bugs / bad performance and not giving it enough focus after launch. Games need to work flawlessly as much as possible when they are released to build a big playerbase right from the start and they need to run on a wide range of Computers..

SWG:   tried it in beta but I don't remember why I never played the release version  I think it was kind of boring and had some bugs.

Tabula Rasa:  tried it, but boring again

EvE:   I've played EvE for quite a few months over the years and I think it is a decent game, but in the end it was feeling too much like work and my Avatar being a ship wasn't so great either. Would probably be a much greater success if it would give you a human avatar that could walk around in stations and ships, plus it would be more exciting if it would be more simulation like. (Board your ship, go to the cockpit, press a lot of buttons, fly your ship). And yes, I know theres a story around the clones and being one with your ship. Still it just tries to cover whats missing.

I'm currently waiting for Mortal Online beta. Maybe StarVault can pull off a good sandbox game even though they are a indy developer.

Nerver give up hope

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by Bastioni

Fair, if they can't make more than one race and don't have enough money then they should have made it F2P. Blizzard and Lotro, huge companies and IP can afford P2P and I think it's cool if they charge a monthly sub. 

Small Korean company which charges full price for a year old game in the West = ripoff sorry, has to be said.

The game is 59 EURO here in the store..hello?..insane.

 

You don't know jack about MMOs, all your posts in this threads are completely ridiculous. Comparing a PvE game with a PvP one based on faction warfare..... Stating NCsoft is a SMALL company.

Just no. lol.

NCsoft is small compared to Blizzard, SoE (Sony) and Turbine. No need to throw a fit.

Originally posted by Bastioni

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by Bastioni

Fair, if they can't make more than one race and don't have enough money then they should have made it F2P. Blizzard and Lotro, huge companies and IP can afford P2P and I think it's cool if they charge a monthly sub. 

Small Korean company which charges full price for a year old game in the West = ripoff sorry, has to be said.

The game is 59 EURO here in the store..hello?..insane.

 

You don't know jack about MMOs, all your posts in this threads are completely ridiculous. Comparing a PvE game with a PvP one based on faction warfare..... Stating NCsoft is a SMALL company.

Just no. lol.

NCsoft is small compared to Blizzard, SoE (Sony) and Turbine. No need to throw a fit.

Cant recall any game from SoE or Turbine getting more than 2M subscribers, like L2, L1 and Aion have been doing.

Originally posted by Vendayn

people WANT linear and the same.

 

No, people want a fun and engaging gaming experience. You can have 10 starting areas, but if their all boring with the grinding of the same rats for 10 levels whats the point (e.g. EQ)?

Aion is fun and the complete gaming package, thats why it will be a massive success.

Originally posted by Bastioni

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by Bastioni

Fair, if they can't make more than one race and don't have enough money then they should have made it F2P. Blizzard and Lotro, huge companies and IP can afford P2P and I think it's cool if they charge a monthly sub. 

Small Korean company which charges full price for a year old game in the West = ripoff sorry, has to be said.

The game is 59 EURO here in the store..hello?..insane.

 

You don't know jack about MMOs, all your posts in this threads are completely ridiculous. Comparing a PvE game with a PvP one based on faction warfare..... Stating NCsoft is a SMALL company.

Just no. lol.

NCsoft is small compared to Blizzard, SoE (Sony) and Turbine. No need to throw a fit.

I'd have to be angry to throw a fit, I'm having more of laugh really. What you've said is so way off it's a bit funny.lol

XD

I don't see the big deal with race, considering you can create your character to look like pretty much anything you want.  Unless you are talking about specific racial abilities, which once again brings you to the table of  "Race X is the best for class Y."  It's not a huge addition to gameplay because most good players will pick the statistically best race for the class they pick.  Once again, you feel like you have choices, but in reality you don't unless you want to purposely gimp yourself.  The only way to alleviate that is to homogenize the crap out of all of the races.  Then you'd just have no purpose in even making variety in racial selection aside from looks(Which once again, character customization more then makes up for).

Originally posted by Bastioni

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by Bastioni

Fair, if they can't make more than one race and don't have enough money then they should have made it F2P. Blizzard and Lotro, huge companies and IP can afford P2P and I think it's cool if they charge a monthly sub. 

Small Korean company which charges full price for a year old game in the West = ripoff sorry, has to be said.

The game is 59 EURO here in the store..hello?..insane.

 

You don't know jack about MMOs, all your posts in this threads are completely ridiculous. Comparing a PvE game with a PvP one based on faction warfare..... Stating NCsoft is a SMALL company.

Just no. lol.

NCsoft is small compared to Blizzard, SoE (Sony) and Turbine. No need to throw a fit.

You know... you are only enforcing and reinforcing what they said by saying that right...?

The only thing big about SOE is the stigma attached to them.

The only thing big about Blizzard is their brand name.

The only thing big about Turbine is the IP behind their games.

As for customization in the game, like many have said, the character customization covers it. You want a gnome/dwarf/kid? Make one. You want an Orc? Make one. You want to play as Arthas/Piccolo/<insert famous person or anime character>? Make them.

Originally posted by JudgeRoyBean

Aion appears to be very linear. 

Aion classes are perceived as being shallow.

Aion appears to be very linear with no diversity to the leveling process.
Aion's approach, in regards to class depth, seems to be shallow and simplistic.

This is not a flame of NCsoft or Aion, as I intend to play when released.  Aion is my new hope for great PvP.
But, as a long term MMO player, is there any validity to my perception?
 

For the sake of brevity I figured I would chime in on your points.

I agree Aion is a linear game.  With that said... How many mmos aren't linear in some form or fashion?

I agree with your initial assesment on the classes, I was surprised to find that regardless of your side that each side had essentially the same choices.  I guess since you can't read the devs mind as to why they opted for this I thought about the PVP aspect and balance.  If you are all playing similar classes it will help maintain a flow of a battlefield and possibly avoid a "class" warfare...  How many pvp battlefields are dominated by a specific class that tends to crush the opposition?  I'm witholding further judgement to we will see how it works out with later developments through the levels, it could actually prove to be interesting.

As a fellow long term MMO player I can say that I shared many of your initial observations.  However, I think there is definite potential with the game as dispite it's simplistic appearance I think it's potential is good.  I was impressed with the smoothness of the first beta weekend and having been in several "beta" phases it was the best experience I've had to date.  I certainly look forward to exploring this game through further beta weekends and expect to be playing it upon release.

Originally posted by Ephimero

The people stating Aion is F2P quality is hilarious, considering the releases of war and AoC, filled with glitches, bugs, annoyances, lack of content, lack of endgame, lack of advertised features, etc.

Ephimero, You seem to be a person with good knowledge about AION and I usually respect that from you. However, I don't think you are being fair here.

AION was released with just as much missing contents as the other games. At release, above level 30, quests are just simply missing. Per level, you can only have roughly 20% exp from quest at 30ish to 10% exp or less from quest 40ish. You have to grind the rest out.

They simply couldn't balance the stigma system so they dumped it down to what you have now which is pitifully shalow compare to what they used to have in beta.

There are also a lot of bugs, gliches and exploits as well. PvE contents are just missing. One instance for mid level and a couple more for end-game. PvP end game wasn't really balance well resulting in a lot of ping-pong neft bat swingings. PvP rewards also did not get balance well resulting people trading kills to farm Abyss point to get PvP gears. Defending fortresses are completely meaningless...

That sort of stuffs and they were going on for months before they got fixed and more contents wasn't added until like 5 months after release.

Originally posted by Thachsanh

Originally posted by Ephimero

The people stating Aion is F2P quality is hilarious, considering the releases of war and AoC, filled with glitches, bugs, annoyances, lack of content, lack of endgame, lack of advertised features, etc.

 

Ephimero, You seem to be a person with good knowledge about AION and I usually respect that from you. However, I don't think you are being fair here.

AION was released with just as much missing contents as the other games. At release, above level 30, quests are just simply missing. Per level, you can only have roughly 20% exp from quest at 30ish to 10% exp or less from quest 40ish. You have to grind the rest out.

They simply couldn't balance the stigma system so they dumped it down to what you have now which is pitifully shalow compare to what they used to have in beta.

There are also a lot of bugs, gliches and exploits as well. PvE contents are just missing. One instance for mid level and a couple more for end-game. PvP end game wasn't really balance well resulting in a lot of ping-pong neft bat swingings. PvP rewards also did not get balance well resulting people trading kills to farm Abyss point to get PvP gears. Defending fortresses are completely meaningless...

That sort of stuffs and they were going on for months before they got fixed and more contents wasn't added until like 5 months after release.

I think you're the one being unfair here, comparing the release of Aion with AoC for instance.

-Just as much missing content?

This was only the tip of the iceburg as far as AoC was concerned. Along with missing content, you could actually count the number of quests that worked after level 40 on your hands, not to mention the terrible mob pathing, ridiculous crafting system, worse performance ever client wise, extremely bad optimization for most PCs, lag spikes, severely lacking itemization, useless skills that don't work, clunky UI, lack of a pvp system, keeps/siege warfare that doesn't work, raids that don't work, coupled with content that was promised and wasn't delivered at launch by FC. AoC was a trainwreck, and that's the reason it lost more than 70% of it's initial subs in a couple of months, as the patches were appalling and broke even more of the game instead of improving it.

-There are also a lot of bugs, gliches and exploits as well

A lot? hardly. Again you're being extremely harsh on the game. I'm interested in knowing what sort of bugs and glitches you mean, as I've hardly seen any, and NONE that are game breaking. It has some then? Big deal!

I only know of ONE exploit, the one you mentioned, which has already been fixed, care to inform me about the other 'lots' of exploits?

You label him as being unfair, and straight after it you compare one of the worst launches in MMO history, to one of the best. Talk about being a hypocrite.

Originally posted by Electriceye

I think you're the one being unfair here, comparing the release of Aion with AoC for instance.

-Just as much missing content?

This was only the tip of the iceburg as far as AoC was concerned. Along with missing content, you could actually count the number of quests that worked after level 40 on your hands, not to mention the terrible mob pathing, ridiculous crafting system, worse performance ever client wise, extremely bad optimization for most PCs, lag spikes, severely lacking itemization, useless skills that don't work, clunky UI, lack of a pvp system, keeps/siege warfare that doesn't work, raids that don't work, coupled with content that was promised and wasn't delivered at launch by FC. AoC was a trainwreck, and that's the reason it lost more than 70% of it's initial subs in a couple of months, as the patches were appalling and broke even more of the game instead of improving it. 

-There are also a lot of bugs, gliches and exploits as well

A lot? hardly. Again you're being extremely harsh on the game. I'm interested in knowing what sort of bugs and glitches you mean, as I've hardly seen any, and NONE that are game breaking. It has some then? Big deal!

I only know of ONE exploit, the one you mentioned, which has already been fixed, care to inform me about the other 'lots' of exploits?

 

You label him as being unfair, and straight after it you compare one of the worst launches in MMO history, to one of the best. Talk about being a hypocrite.

 

I am not trying to compare the launch of the 2 games. I am just pointing out that AION at release did have a load of issues as well and missing contents IS one of them. It is being address by NCSoft at the moment, but at release, AION did miss a lot of contents. Acknowledge it.

No, I don't think AION is F2P quality. But it's not the best thing since slice bread either. Know the game for both its good and bad. Otherwise, you just a blind fanboi who zealously defend anything about AION.

As for exploit, just because YOU don't know does not make it so. There are many safe spots, especially in instance where you can just stand there and kill without ever being hit (only certain classes, but yah). Then there are the one allow you to level to max in an incredibly short time... You could argue that those kind of things happen in every game but the point is AION has them too. So, don't make it sounds like AION is the god send kind of game without any serious bugs, gliches because unfortunately, it does have them.

Originally posted by Thachsanh

Originally posted by Electriceye

I think you're the one being unfair here, comparing the release of Aion with AoC for instance.

-Just as much missing content?

This was only the tip of the iceburg as far as AoC was concerned. Along with missing content, you could actually count the number of quests that worked after level 40 on your hands, not to mention the terrible mob pathing, ridiculous crafting system, worse performance ever client wise, extremely bad optimization for most PCs, lag spikes, severely lacking itemization, useless skills that don't work, clunky UI, lack of a pvp system, keeps/siege warfare that doesn't work, raids that don't work, coupled with content that was promised and wasn't delivered at launch by FC. AoC was a trainwreck, and that's the reason it lost more than 70% of it's initial subs in a couple of months, as the patches were appalling and broke even more of the game instead of improving it. 

-There are also a lot of bugs, gliches and exploits as well

A lot? hardly. Again you're being extremely harsh on the game. I'm interested in knowing what sort of bugs and glitches you mean, as I've hardly seen any, and NONE that are game breaking. It has some then? Big deal!

I only know of ONE exploit, the one you mentioned, which has already been fixed, care to inform me about the other 'lots' of exploits?

 

You label him as being unfair, and straight after it you compare one of the worst launches in MMO history, to one of the best. Talk about being a hypocrite.

 

 

I am not trying to compare the launch of the 2 games. I am just pointing out that AION at release did have a load of issues as well and missing contents IS one of them. It is being address by NCSoft at the moment, but at release, AION did miss a lot of contents. Acknowledge it.

No, I don't think AION is F2P quality. But it's not the best thing since slice bread either. Know the game for both its good and bad. Otherwise, you just a blind fanboi who zealously defend anything about AION.

As for exploit, just because YOU don't know does not make it so. There are many safe spots, especially in instance where you can just stand there and kill without ever being hit (only certain classes, but yah). Then there are the one allow you to level to max in an incredibly short time... You could argue that those kind of things happen in every game but the point is AION has them too. So, don't make it sounds like AION is the god send kind of game without any serious bugs, gliches because unfortunately, it does have them.

Where in my post did I say that it DOESN't have any issues? I asked a serious question about the glitches/bugs, it wasn't sarcasm. I never said it was perfect and that it was the god send of mmos, neither that it's the best thing since sliced bread, don't say extreme things like that lol. I might not even buy the game once it releases here.

Fact remains that, at launch, it was NOWHERE near as incomplete, unpolished, buggy, glitchy as other games, especially AoC. It has it's fair share of problems, nowhere near as much as you're making it out to be, and they're getting fixed really fast. If a lot of the stuff was game breaking, then subs WILL suffer, a game is a game, doesn't matter whether it's in an Eastern market or a western one. Only the mob grinding point of view differs. If Aion had anything like the AoC launch, it would have suffered immensly, and not steadily growing, even 7 months after it's launch.

The guy above you was refuting the 'F2P' tag. I agree with him that it's laughable considering AoC and other games such as VG launched not so long ago and where reaally poor, not even worthy of the 'F2P' tag.

Westerners are getting an updated version, 1.2 most likely, so all the talk about Aion's launch is irrelevant. In the west at least, it's going to have most probably the most polished launch of an MMO ever. That's what you need to worry about.