WOW Suprising!!

I don't know why this reminds me of Richard Garriot leaving Tabula Rasa a few months or weeks before its demise announcement... might just be paranoia though...

 I don't see this as a bad thing. Bioware makes great games. They are working on one MMO now, SWTOR, and are rumored to be working on a Neverwinter Nights MMO. Granted they have no completed MMO's but they do have a great track record for building RPG's. 

[quote] Mark Jacobs, the former CEO and General Manager of Mythic, has left the company as of June 23rd, 2009[/quote]

This made my day. I've seen game producers with big egos ... Mr. Jacobs' ego, on the other hand was simply above and beyond. I would cringe my teeth every time I would hear him "addressing" the player base. Every single one of his statements had a sense of self-importance beyond belief. So, yeah perhaps a little shadenfreude.

As for BioWare + Mythic ... it sucks be working for either of them. Knowing how hamfisted EA is, wouldn't doubt the do away with 50% of their personnel and screw upcoming games like SW:TOR and make them WoW clones.

Peace.

Mark Jacobs sold his soul and his company downriver to EA. At the time he said it was to better produce the game with EA's resources . He didn't fool anyone, it was all about the money. Now that you got fired was it worth it ? Your name is forever shamed buddy.

My only hope is this will improve Warhammer. I still can't play the game much at all and really want to like it. T4 advancement (gear or renown) in oRVR is almost non-existent and CC is just making the game not fun.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by Lobotomist

RIP Bioware, and Mythic

 

? 

Maybe Mythic, but not sure how this negatively affects Bioware.  Mythic probably could have used better guidance from the beginning on this game.  I can't see how this would be anything less than positive as I thought they did a pretty poor job on many element of WAR anyway.  It's not like they could make it worse with different oversight.....

As I posted in another related topic.

 

When Mythic and EA joined forces. There was a talk how Mythic will never actually have to report to EA. That they are as independent as it gets.

How independent Mythic were , is quite obvious by now.

When WAR failed to meet EA expectations Mark Jackobs was let go. And leader of completely different studio was appointed as Mythic leader.

(And note Mythic is MMO studio, Bioware is single player RPG studio. As much i love Bioware and Ray Myzuka. Giving lead of studio with one destinct style to a person dedicated to completely different style of gaming - is bad.)

 

So now is Ray Myzuka time to make cash cow for EA.

If he fails , he can allready see what happened to his predecessor ( and many before: Garriot , Molyneux ...)

 

Let me use old saying

Bioware is now : A king for a day, and fool for a lifetime

 

Sad day indeed

 

I've never really been one to agree with Lobo.  Yet I find what he said above, very much along same thinking path I was on.  While War didn't live up the hype around it.  You only have to look at DAOC to see that Mythic was a capable company. (Minus ToA Expansion for DAOC)  I always hoped they would do a DAOC 2, but then they were "aquired" by EA, and I pretty much kissed that dream good bye.

I know EA is all about making money, like a good company is supposed to be.  I just really dislike them, for the way they handle things.

It looks like WAR gets to join the ranks of Tabula Rasa, Vanguard and Age of Conan.   All those games had their head developers canned after the games did not perform as well as expected. 

In this post-WoW era one has to wonder if those expectations by publishers are realistic, but frankly none of those recent games including WAR have really measured up when it comes to simply being FUN.  I've been following WAR since it's development but at this point and I thought the game might be something worthwhile at first, but now I find myself unwilling to play anymore. 

After playing the Land of the Dead update, the change of Mythic leadership is hardly surprising.    This vaunted update does little to improve the game.  It introduces more needless mechanics - yet another money system, yet another zone control system.  Instead of streaminlining their mechanics Mythic has gone the Microsoft route and piling up more junk into their code rather than making systems that are intuitive and functional. 

Even worse, Land of the Dead just introduces more timesinks and pushes the focus away from the main thing I found entertaining in the game, the Scenarios.  People here rag on Scenarios but frankly, open RvR was seldom as entertaining in WAR.   It was mostly a timesink.    Players wasted time waiting for objectives to flip, wasted time whacking on keep door over and over and over, wasted time running all over zones filled with switchbacks and deadends.   Wasting time is fine for MMO hardcore players who expect that sort of thing.  The rest of us don't pay to waste our time.

Worse still, open RvR in WAR only works when there are enough players on the server, in the right zone, at the right time.    My ability to enjoy the game should not be totally dependent on other players, even in a MMO.    The lack of decent PvE content with horrible quest writing and design insured that there was little else to do besides PvP.

I wish this news was surprising, but it's not.   It is a cautionary tale for Bioware.   But there is one big difference between Muzyka and Zeschuk.   They are not MMORPG developers like Garriott, McQuaid, Godger and Jacobs.   They didn't make games based on concepts like tedious timesinks and overly complicated, non-intiutive mechanics.     Instead Muzyka and Zeschuk made games that were compelling and FUN *first* then decided to go into the MMORPG space.    

Maybe that's what's needed in this post-WoW era of MMORPGs.    Because using old-school developers who can't let go of the tedious mechanics that drove away gamers for a decade before WoW certainly hasn't seemed to work. 

I just hope this makes developers realize that they need to innovate and create new ways for players to have fun, rather then just copying everything Blizzard does.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

It looks like WAR gets to join the ranks of Tabula Rasa, Vanguard and Age of Conan.   All those games had their head developers canned after the games did not perform as well as expected. 

In this post-WoW era one has to wonder if those expectations by publishers are realistic, but frankly none of those recent games including WAR have really measured up when it comes to simply being FUN.  I've been following WAR since it's development but at this point and I thought the game might be something worthwhile at first, but now I find myself unwilling to play anymore. 

After playing the Land of the Dead update, the change of Mythic leadership is hardly surprising.    This vaunted update does little to improve the game.  It introduces more needless mechanics - yet another money system, yet another zone control system.  Instead of streaminlining their mechanics Mythic has gone the Microsoft route and piling up more junk into their code rather than making systems that are intuitive and functional. 

Even worse, Land of the Dead just introduces more timesinks and pushes the focus away from the main thing I found entertaining in the game, the Scenarios.  People here rag on Scenarios but frankly, open RvR was seldom as entertaining in WAR.   It was mostly a timesink.    Players wasted time waiting for objectives to flip, wasted time whacking on keep door over and over and over, wasted time running all over zones filled with switchbacks and deadends.   Wasting time is fine for MMO hardcore players who expect that sort of thing.  The rest of us don't pay to waste our time.

Worse still, open RvR in WAR only works when there are enough players on the server, in the right zone, at the right time.    My ability to enjoy the game should not be totally dependent on other players, even in a MMO.    The lack of decent PvE content with horrible quest writing and design insured that there was little else to do besides PvP.

I wish this news was surprising, but it's not.   It is a cautionary tale for Bioware.   But there is one big difference between Muzyka and Zeschuk.   They are not MMORPG developers like Garriott, McQuaid, Godger and Jacobs.   They didn't make games based on concepts like tedious timesinks and overly complicated, non-intiutive mechanics.     Instead Muzyka and Zeschuk made games that were compelling and FUN *first* then decided to go into the MMORPG space.    

Maybe that's what's needed in this post-WoW era of MMORPGs.    Because using old-school developers who can't let go of the tedious mechanics that drove away gamers for a decade before WoW certainly hasn't seemed to work. 

ORVR would be fine if it was 1 zone to fight over back and forth, not 3. The constant oh look Order is in this zone lets go to another zone where theres no one to fight crap. 1 area not 3 is the answer. Pve in those areas fine but just scrap the 3 zones and city fight, have 1 big frontier with say5 keeps , and go back to DAOC rules, whoever owns 3 of 5 keeps owns LOTD. Their whole system is whacked. I hated trying to find a fight, flying all over the place, only to get to the fight and everyone crying, WE CAN T TAKE THIS THERES RESISTANCE. Oh well I ll return if they did this, which I ll say will be never.

I am both shocked and appalled! <end sarcasm> MJ finally leaving, was a long time in coming. He was not the right person to lead such a well known IP. Ray will do a much better job, as he has with Bioware. Hopefully now WAR will get back to it's roots. Although that will be the epic story-full of drama and suspense, in itself. Might even have some TOR worthy explosions along the way. EA has a way of doing that with their properties. Has been that way for the past 12 years, at least. It will probably stay that way- at least until Paul Barnett leaves too.

Hopefully Dave Jones, over at RTW, will do a better job at keeping EA to just making box art and supplying shelves. We shall see though...

Originally posted by Roin

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by Lobotomist

RIP Bioware, and Mythic

 

? 

Maybe Mythic, but not sure how this negatively affects Bioware.  Mythic probably could have used better guidance from the beginning on this game.  I can't see how this would be anything less than positive as I thought they did a pretty poor job on many element of WAR anyway.  It's not like they could make it worse with different oversight.....

As I posted in another related topic.

 

When Mythic and EA joined forces. There was a talk how Mythic will never actually have to report to EA. That they are as independent as it gets.

How independent Mythic were , is quite obvious by now.

When WAR failed to meet EA expectations Mark Jackobs was let go. And leader of completely different studio was appointed as Mythic leader.

(And note Mythic is MMO studio, Bioware is single player RPG studio. As much i love Bioware and Ray Myzuka. Giving lead of studio with one destinct style to a person dedicated to completely different style of gaming - is bad.)

 

So now is Ray Myzuka time to make cash cow for EA.

If he fails , he can allready see what happened to his predecessor ( and many before: Garriot , Molyneux ...)

 

Let me use old saying

Bioware is now : A king for a day, and fool for a lifetime

 

Sad day indeed

 

 

I've never really been one to agree with Lobo.  Yet I find what he said above, very much along same thinking path I was on.  While War didn't live up the hype around it.  You only have to look at DAOC to see that Mythic was a capable company. (Minus ToA Expansion for DAOC)  I always hoped they would do a DAOC 2, but then they were "aquired" by EA, and I pretty much kissed that dream good bye.

I know EA is all about making money, like a good company is supposed to be.  I just really dislike them, for the way they handle things.

You are both assuming that WAR was going to be this great game but EA came in and turned it into a mess.  We have very little real world examples of a development companies "second" MMO being any better than their previous MMO's. 

Again I don't see how this hurts either company.  WAR needs a direction change, any change IMO could only help the game as they really can't make any parts worse.  And I don't see how any point has been made that this somehow "hurts" Bioware as the previous poster implies......

We'll see how it turns out. Remember, MJ was there for DAoC, too. But everyone makes mistakes.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by Lobotomist

RIP Bioware, and Mythic

 

? 

Maybe Mythic, but not sure how this negatively affects Bioware.  Mythic probably could have used better guidance from the beginning on this game.  I can't see how this would be anything less than positive as I thought they did a pretty poor job on many element of WAR anyway.  It's not like they could make it worse with different oversight.....

As I posted in another related topic.

 

When Mythic and EA joined forces. There was a talk how Mythic will never actually have to report to EA. That they are as independent as it gets.

How independent Mythic were , is quite obvious by now.

When WAR failed to meet EA expectations Mark Jackobs was let go. And leader of completely different studio was appointed as Mythic leader.

(And note Mythic is MMO studio, Bioware is single player RPG studio. As much i love Bioware and Ray Myzuka. Giving lead of studio with one destinct style to a person dedicated to completely different style of gaming - is bad.)

 

So now is Ray Myzuka time to make cash cow for EA.

If he fails , he can allready see what happened to his predecessor ( and many before: Garriot , Molyneux ...)

 

Let me use old saying

Bioware is now : A king for a day, and fool for a lifetime

 

Sad day indeed

 

ToA 2 anyone? :(      I'll enjoy WAR until they break it though unless I spend too much time playing Elements ;)

Originally posted by Deto123

ORVR would be fine if it was 1 zone to fight over back and forth, not 3. The constant oh look Order is in this zone lets go to another zone where theres no one to fight crap. 1 area not 3 is the answer. Pve in those areas fine but just scrap the 3 zones and city fight, have 1 big frontier with say5 keeps , and go back to DAOC rules, whoever owns 3 of 5 keeps owns LOTD. Their whole system is whacked. I hated trying to find a fight, flying all over the place, only to get to the fight and everyone crying, WE CAN T TAKE THIS THERES RESISTANCE. Oh well I ll return if they did this, which I ll say will be never.

That could be one method.   Except the WAR game engine can't handle the numbers of players who gathered in T4 zones to defend Keeps.   One single zone would certainly be crashing all the time.  

I want to add that I tried the Land of the Dead again this evening and there was an improvement on my server now that people are engaging in PvP again rather than focusing only on the LOTD or rushing to capture the opposite side's empty cities when only one side could access the new  zone.     I've found several decent improvements I did not notice at first (like more inventory space) and while I may get burned, I've changed my mind and decided to keep trying the game and see how the new expansion pans out.   

Whether the new management by Bioware results in even more changes will also be something to see.  

Quoting Alienovrlord, "open RvR in WAR only works when there are enough players on the server, in the right zone, at the right time. My ability to enjoy the game should not be totally dependent on other players, even in a MMO. The lack of decent PvE content with horrible quest writing and design insured that there was little else to do besides PvP."

The WAR MMO was a brilliant concept.  I stuck with the game through Alpha and Closed Beta (and I returned even after the "Holiday Break" during which the game was on hold and testing had stopped until further notice).  But the reasons Alienoverlord mentions above, along with my distaste for the WoW graphics (the MMO game imersion just didn't feel like Warhammer to me),  are the main reasons why I never committed to the retail box purchase of WAR.  I was certain these problems would cause huge issues with the playability of the WAR MMO when it went live and they did.  Most are still problematic.

Continuing to quote Alienovrlord, "I wish this news was surprising, but it's not. It is a cautionary tale for Bioware. But there is one big difference between Muzyka and Zeschuk. They are not MMORPG developers like Garriott, McQuaid, Godger and Jacobs. They didn't make games based on concepts like tedious timesinks and overly complicated, non-intiutive mechanics. Instead Muzyka and Zeschuk made games that were compelling and FUN *first* then decided to go into the MMORPG space."

The "good doctors" (BioWare's Muzyka and Zeschuk), among other things, are first and foremost all about the story.  The "fun first" is not that complicated and not at all hard to understand -- it's simply following a proven method of  "RPG" storytelling that we've seen BioWare develop since Baldur's Gate.  It's what labeled BioWare a success with EA, LucasArts and, of course, hobbyists.

With MJ gone, expect major changes (for the better) with WAR -- it's no longer MJ's ego running a puppet show.  Mythic is a good company which will only get better now.

We've all seen disenchanted folks diss EA but, IMHO, in this case, it was time for MJ to go and the restructuring cannot help but strengthen and improve all facets of their operation.

*warf* mais que dimais huuruu

Originally posted by pandrax

Originally posted by ProfRed

Really sad news...

 

..........For BioWare....  I would not want to be merged with mythic. Ah well.. things like this happens, I don't see why they didn't just get rid of mythic all together though.

Mythic has solid coders.  Warhammer runs smooth, graphics (for what they are) run well.  The content designers probably need to go, though :P