Any mmo's with good balancing? Almost every thread you read about have someone somehwere saying what TERRIBLE balancing it has.

Eve, UO, Star Wars pre NGE.. there are others.  Because none of them have classes.  Classes were invented by the D&D people, no one else.   All the great fantasy books don't have classes. 

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Eve, UO, Star Wars pre NGE.. there are others.  Because none of them have classes.  Classes were invented by the D&D people, no one else.   All the great fantasy books don't have classes. 

not true....

SWG was horribly imbalanced.....Melee was HORRIBLY imbalanced (TKM/Swordsman/Fencer) were the I WIN BUTTONS for a huge amount of time, then the mind wars (sniper/cm) ruled supreme.

anarchy online has very good class balancing. not much to say on that subject, but the classes are very well balanced. they're just suited to different styles of gameplay.

Define "balance".

Most games have balanced classes. Simply every class has it strengths and weakness.

Also people (usually noobs, idiotas and of that sort) who play games and often lose in pvp or just see someone doing something better will scream that classes isnt balanced even though it is their fault they lose. Yes I agree there sometimes overpowered classes but game devs usually fix them.

Another thing is what balance you mean? You want any class be able to kill another? Or looking for usual: archers kill mages, mages kill warriors, warriors kill archers type? Or maybe some sort of other balance?

I pay much attention to balance when I play games and I think the best I've seen yet is in Guild Wars. It ain't perfect but it sure comes close. It would be incredibly naive to say that a game X has "perfect" balance. It's also easy to test out other people's builds because you can roll a lvl20(max lvl) PvP character at any time.

Balance is not so important in PvE games as proven by D&D.

Well, Vanguard definitely has good class balancing. Note however it is a PvE game.

In a PvP game, getting a good class balance is a tad problematic. Its getting easier if you go for Group PvP, but single classes are a nightmare to balance for each other.

For example healers. In my first MMO, Lineage 2, healers where pushovers. No defense, no offense, and what they had in healing was not compensateable.

In my second MMO, Vanguard, healers are solo kings and rulers of PvP. Thats because they arent as good as others, but are getting like 60% or more of the defense and offense of others, plus their healing.

Games with fewer classes tend to have better balance, LotR was a good example before they added two classes for no reason.

But class issues tend to come and go, but will you still be playing in 3-6 months time once it is remedied?

The Chinese version of Aion Online actually has very well balanced classes. As soon as the North American version catches up (2 patches to go) I'm sure it will have excellent balance as well.

Originally posted by RandomSanity

The Chinese version of Aion Online actually has very well balanced classes. As soon as the North American version catches up (2 patches to go) I'm sure it will have excellent balance as well.

Group balanced, though, 1v1 still has some rough corners to polish even in 1.2, but the good thing is that every class has their role in group PvE and in group PvP and all of them are certainly useful.

If you want balance play a FPS.

The quest for "balance" has killed many games and specifically SWG.

Good MMO have always had UNbalance.

You were forced to group to balance it out.

The current attitude of trying to balance each and every class hurts games tremendously.

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Originally posted by Valeran
If you want balance play a FPS.
The quest for "balance" has killed many games and specifically SWG.

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Not sure what alternate dimension you come from to think all FPSes are magically balanced. :P Every FPS has different weapons. The better FPSes have different roles to play, and some even have asymetrical sides (Quake Wars).

More on topic, I always considred late-Burning Crusade WOW to have particularly solid class balance -- but it's probably colored by the fact that all three specs of the class I played (shaman) were finally viable in PVE, where I spent most of my time.

Originally posted by Axehilt

 

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Originally posted by Valeran
If you want balance play a FPS.
The quest for "balance" has killed many games and specifically SWG.

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Not sure what alternate dimension you come from to think all FPSes are magically balanced. :P Every FPS has different weapons. The better FPSes have different roles to play, and some even have asymetrical sides (Quake Wars).

More on topic, I always considred late-Burning Crusade WOW to have particularly solid class balance -- but it's probably colored by the fact that all three specs of the class I played (shaman) were finally viable in PVE, where I spent most of my time.

pretty sure I didn't say all.

Atlantica Online has the most ballenced classes ever. Since it is a turnbased game you all have the same stats and everything. Its the fairest game out there. Id check it out.

What is Atlantica Online? It is a fast growing, fast paced, MMORPG turn based game that requires alot of stratagy and planning.

Asheron's Call has no class-  you choose from there.  they have plenty choice what u prefer and they all pretty balanced skill damage and sort.

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

Great Group PvE balance, every class has its pros and cons. Also great raid balance; all classes wanted for raids.

Not very balanced for Solo PvE though, and PvP balance is quite frankly nonexistent.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Eve, UO, Star Wars pre NGE.. there are others.  Because none of them have classes.  Classes were invented by the D&D people, no one else.   All the great fantasy books don't have classes. 

If you have no classes, exactly the same problem appears with skills. One skill will be too strong and the other to weak.

And in my experience, having no skills just means players make up their own, and thanks to the limits of skillbased systems end up with less classes than classbased games.

Only solution is to not have skills either. Thats when you end being a roleplaying game.

Originally posted by Adamantine

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Eve, UO, Star Wars pre NGE.. there are others.  Because none of them have classes.  Classes were invented by the D&D people, no one else.   All the great fantasy books don't have classes. 

If you have no classes, exactly the same problem appears with skills. One skill will be too strong and the other to weak.

And in my experience, having no skills just means players make up their own, and thanks to the limits of skillbased systems end up with less classes than classbased games.

Only solution is to not have skills either. Thats when you end being a roleplaying game.

 

Generally speaking, with no classes players graviate towards a few specific "optimal" builds...until the developers nerf the skills that make them OP'd.

And point of order, while they might not be called 'classes', EVE definitely clearly defines roles for each ship type, and you have somewhat traditional roles such as Tanks, DPS'ers, Healers, Buffers, Crowd Control, Scouts etc.

And like most MMO's one vs one, each ship has advantages and disadvantages, and there is no single ship that wins every time in every situation. Balance is only achieved in group fighting, typical of most other MMO's.