I have no problem with NC using Gameguard.

I know none of you care, but I felt like saying it.

Originally posted by vendolis

 

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Originally posted by Ephimero
Do you really need netlimiter while playing? I havent used that software ever, so can't tell you if aion's version supports it, what I can tell you is that I don't need it while playing Aion.

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No I do not need it while playing. And I gladly tell NetLimiter to shut down before I play, but that is not enough. Even killing the netlimiter tasks in the task manager is not enough. You have to either uninstall it, or to disable the service and then restart the computer.

So the way of how GameGuard works makes it hard in my case to run it at all.

 

I'm not familiar with netlimiter.  What does it do exactly? 

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by xenex413

GameGuard does not cause as many problems as people whine about here, but it also doesn't offer any real protection for the game either, there's many by passes to completely disable Game Guard in many games out there so that people can use bots and hacks in those games that are "protected" by game guard, so basically there's no point to have it but there's also no harm in having it, it is all mental and like someone said most of the time something to make the "Big Suits" in a company feel safe.

 

An average user, who bought his computer from Best Buy, will probably not have any serious issues with Gameguard. However, people who utilize their computers for other things besides Facebook and porn may run into some complications.

For example, during the last play test, the game would not load because I had left uTorrent running. It also prevented some of the buttons on my G15 keyboard from working. Besides the fact that it would randomly stall on updating and would force me to reload the game.

I do not have a problem with hack detection software. I had no issues with Blizzard's software--it wasn't noticeable at all. On the other hand, Gameguard is annoying, invasive and prevents me from running certain software. Not to mention that it is completely useless.

I remember how Blizzard caught a lot of flack when they added their anti-cheat software to WoW. The funny thing is though that their anti-cheat engine actually works and runs virtually undetected. On the other hand, in Aion, we get an invasive root kit which doesn't even work and we get appologists trying to excuse it.

I ran Utorrent and had no problems at all.  I ran the game on 3 systems, one at work, through various firewalls and antivirus programs.  No issues at all.   Perhaps the instability is inherent in your own system.

I think you're also forgetting the lawsuits involved in Blizzards Warden software and how invasive it was to begin with.

 

Yes, I'm sure that's what it is. Maybe my i7 920 is not good enough for Gameguard? Either way, who cares? Every other piece of software runs flawlessly, except for Gameguard.

Look, the fact of the matter is that Gameguard simply does not work. Since it does not work, I fail to see why it is even being bundled with the game. Unless it is going to used by NCSoft as an excuse to not enforce their EULA. I mean it worked it Lineage II, right? Right?!

As for Warden, besides it's invasiveness, not once had it prevented me from using any software I needed to while I was playing WoW.

  Yes, you're cool cuz  you have an i7.  You're everyone's hero now.  Is that what you're looking for?

The FACT of the matter is, you're expecting us to take your word for it.  The FACT of the matter is, it works just fine for me.  The FACT of the matter is, you're just looking for something to bitch and complain about.  And hell, if Gameguard servers to keep whiners out of the game, then it seems to be working just fine.  If it stops other nefarious activities, then that is just a bonus.

Yes, that is exactly what I was looking for, thank you.

The FACT of the matter is that I don't expect you to take my word for anything. All I am doing is relaying my experience and sharing my opinion on a message board. Besides, you can find more people with similar problems just by searching for Gameguard on Google.

The FACT of the matter is that Gameguard is useless and causes problems for some people. It's obvious that you do not share my opinion. Either way, good luck with your root kit. =)

 

Hey, maybe if you keep repeating the same thing over and over and calling it a root kit people will start believing you.   Good luck with that.

It is a root kit.

not getting Aion due to game guard.  Any software that takes actions without my knowledge is called a virus in my book.

I already boycott Maxis due to their whole Spore three times install bull crap and i am pretty sure the lack of me as a customer is bringing the company to its economic knees......  What do you mean their doing find?!  LIES!

Well until the gaming comunity as a whole acts against intrusive, retarded, and invasive Digital Rights software/ anti cheat software they will just get more invasive, intrusive and retarded.  But most people don't care about them.  Alternatives to combat piracy and MMO cheating are out there but they are just too expensive and the truth is that cost would be passed on to us.  I myself hate things like this and all i can do is not deal with them by not buying it.  NO matter how badly i want to play Sims3 i wont be.  Sad really will just have to spend more time with the family and in the outdoors... o wait thats not sad :)

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Originally posted by madeux
The Devs at NC seem to think it serves a purpose for them, otherwise they would not be using it.  If they really thought it would hurt their income, they wouldn't be using it.  Sorry, but I trust their opinion far more than I trust yours. 

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First I do not want anyone to trust my opinion. I want to state my opinion so others can take a informed choice about if they want to make with it. They can not do it if they don't know what it means.

I waited for a long time for this game to come and then notice that it will give me problems playing it. I am quite pissed about it... and I wish I would have a way to tell the devs that I am.

And for the trust of a system.. take a look at the 'Spore' copy protection incident. It took some people to speak up to end the stupid way this thing was going. And yes.. Aion will get my negative vote on Amazon. It is the only way to voice an opinion in this kind of economy.

Originally posted by madeux

I ran Utorrent and had no problems at all.  I ran the game on 3 systems, one at work, through various firewalls and antivirus programs.  No issues at all.   Perhaps the instability is inherent in your own system.

I think you're also forgetting the lawsuits involved in Blizzards Warden software and how invasive it was to begin with.

I never tried Lineage 2... so I played it earlier this year.  Gameguard was at the time disabling basicly every Anti Virus on the market.  They would not work properly until you rebooted the computer.

This issue was fixed before Aion pre-view.  This second preview I saw no issues with Gameguard and if that continues, I will have  issue with its use.

The first pre-view it worked fine on Friday but on Saturday/Sunday people with 64 bit OS (xp/vista/) were being dumped out of the game.  This due to a gameguard update... (as stated this was fixed by the second preview).  It appeared they didn't update it to provide a 64bit solution.. so you couldn't fix it on the user end.  Well I fixed it by booting off my XP drive...

I've never had issues with my firewall and Gameguard.  /shrug

I just think ignoring the issues that GameGuard has a history of.. is as annoying as people whining.  In fact its more annoying..

Originally posted by madeux

The Devs at NC seem to think it serves a purpose for them, otherwise they would not be using it.  If they really thought it would hurt their income, they wouldn't be using it.  Sorry, but I trust their opinion far more than I trust yours. 

Going back to this for a minute. I do not think that it is up to the developers themselves. NC Soft is a big corporation and someone, somewhere at the top on the NC Soft's food chain signed a contract with INCA and the developers are powerless to stop it. In truth, developers rarely make these decisions.

Whether or not it actually works makes absolutely no difference. It was a business descision done at a corporate level.

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Originally posted by madeux
I'm not familiar with netlimiter.  What does it do exactly? 

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Netlimiter is a Network Monitor. It shows you all the Programs on your system that have open Ports to the network and measures their amount of data down to the actual connection level.
It has a Firewall in it (which I do not use). But especially it can assign a bandwidth limit and grand to any level you can see in there. This means I have a download running in the browser and do not want it to take more than 50kbs .. I put it in there and only this connection is pulled down without interference with the rest of my browser. Or if I have a stream running and I want to have it 500kbs at all times and block all other applications to interfere with it I can grand it the line speed (given that the server allows it).

The way it was used to cheat in games was (to my limited information). You pulled down the speed of the line that much that you already passed a wall before the collision was set in. So you got to places where you where not supposed to be. I do not know which games it where and so on, but that is what I found out when I had problems with CoS.

Millions of people are playing Aion without issues. After seeing the rate of failure vs non failure of GG in this forum, one would think the game would have 20k subs tops.

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Originally posted by Dog6880
NO matter how badly i want to play Sims3 i wont be.

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Actually Sim3 was an example where they cut down the copy protection to CD-Checks (which are annoying but bearable). Only the download version has the full activation suite. They kind of learned from Spore and cut down their effort there.

Ive never had issues with any game scanners at this point.

All you have to do  is look at the cheating going on in Darkfall to see that there is a need for game companies to protect thier game.  Adventurine is taking a hit from it moneywise (but that isnt entirely the problem).

Not all the programs are perfect, but i believe that we do need them in place.

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Originally posted by Ephimero
Millions of people are playing Aion without issues.

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Yep .. most of them play in PC bangs I guess where the computers are mainly used to play games.

yeah just read up on sims3 seems it gets bad reviews from people who think sims2 is better, no DRM is suppose to be on it other then disk in drive and key type.  Glad to see that enough people complaining about 3 installs and thats it type of DRM worked.  I will watch Maxis and give em a second chance if i see that trend continue.

Originally posted by Ephimero

Millions of people are playing Aion without issues. After seeing the rate of failure vs non failure of GG in this forum, one would think the game would have 20k subs tops.

Listen, I'm pretty sure that most people are not experiencing any serious issues with Gameguard and some that are experiencing issues, either don't know what causes them or aren't aware of them.

However, there is a significant number of people who are experiencing issues with Gameguard and these people should not be ignored. I wouldn't mind putting up with certain issues if Gameguard actually prevented hacking and botting. But it doesn't! There is no reason to bundle it up with the game if the only thing it acomplishes is annoying some of the users.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ephimero

Millions of people are playing Aion without issues. After seeing the rate of failure vs non failure of GG in this forum, one would think the game would have 20k subs tops.

 

Listen, I'm pretty sure that most people are not experiencing any serious issues with Gameguard and some that are experiencing issues, either don't know what causes them or aren't aware of them.

However, there is a significant number of people who are experiencing issues with Gameguard and these people should not be ignored. I wouldn't mind putting up with certain issues if Gameguard actually prevented hacking and botting. But it doesn't! There is no reason to bundle it up with the game if the only thing it acomplishes is annoying some of the users.

All of those issues can be easily fixed by reporting them to the ones in charge, instead of creating thousands of posts complaining about it in a forum they won't read for sure. Show me one example of someone being ignored after reporting a gameguard issue in the proper plattform and I'll join your cause.

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Originally posted by Ephimero
Show me one example of someone being ignored after reporting a gameguard issue in the proper platform and I'll join your cause.

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I reported several to Spellborn Inc. and never got any help apart from to uninstall NetLimiter (Not an option as you might guess). I also opened a case on nProtect and only got the answer to contact the distributor of the game. (Not realy much help.)

EDIT: And it did cost me about 2 days of searching and so on to find the issue and the 'solution'.

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Ephimero

Millions of people are playing Aion without issues. After seeing the rate of failure vs non failure of GG in this forum, one would think the game would have 20k subs tops.

 

Listen, I'm pretty sure that most people are not experiencing any serious issues with Gameguard and some that are experiencing issues, either don't know what causes them or aren't aware of them.

However, there is a significant number of people who are experiencing issues with Gameguard and these people should not be ignored. I wouldn't mind putting up with certain issues if Gameguard actually prevented hacking and botting. But it doesn't! There is no reason to bundle it up with the game if the only thing it acomplishes is annoying some of the users.

 

All of those issues can be easily fixed by reporting them to the ones in charge, instead of creating thousands of posts complaining about it in a forum they won't read for sure. Show me one example of someone being ignored after reporting a gameguard issue in the proper plattform and I'll join your cause.

I think that we're talking about two different things here. So I will attempt to explain my point in a different way.

Gameguard does not work. It does not prevent botting. It does not prevent hacking or exploiting. It is very easily turned off, bypassed and tricked.

Besides the fact that it does not work, the software also causes problems for some users. Yes, we can report issues to INCA or NCSoft and maybe they will get fixed in a month or two... However, since the software does not do what it is designed to do, why do we even need to deal with it?

To summarize:

Gameguard doesn't work and causes problems. Please remove.

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Originally posted by heartless
To summarize:
Gameguard doesn't work and causes problems. Please remove.

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All the point there is to it. :-)

Second option is to make GameGuard realy work ... would make Lineage 2 a wonderful game. (As it was in beta )

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by korat102

Originally posted by xenex413

GameGuard does not cause as many problems as people whine about here

 

The fact that it doesn't cause YOU  problems doesn't mean that it's fine on everybody elses machines. And is it really necessary to use the word 'whine' to put down anybody who has a view that's different to yours?

 

A whine by any other name would still be just as annoying.  Instead of critisizing him for using the word, why speak out against the plague of whiners that are overrunning these forums?

So now we have whines about those who whine about the whiners? The fact remains that gameguard can and does cause various problems. Windowz is unstable enough as it is, without poorly coded apps like gameguard.  As I stated, its more like a bandaid, than any real solution. Its to make the suits feel "secure" without spending the time and money to actually write secure code.  Of course, when they do get hacked(and they do...), then they blame their tech staffs and cover it up.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by vendolis

madeux or heartless, do you see a real positive effect of GameGuard? That it runs on your system is nice, but does not help anyone but you. (I avoid saying that it 'works'.)
Does it do its written Job (From the nProtect Website) :

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Game Security solution for game companies to protect their games from hacks such as information theft, speed hack, memory edit, macros, BOTs, DLL injections and other threats.

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Does Lineage II have no problem with Bots and information theft? Does it help on any of the other games that use it?

If not, why bother with installing a software that makes only one possible customer not buy the system? Isn't the best way to minimize "the outflow of incomes and assets" (as nProtect states) designing your game the way that it is not that vulnerable to this kind of things?

And don't you think that informing the customer of such a system should not be mandatory before he buys it?
(Even on with a microwave you are informed not to put living animals into it.)

 

The Devs at NC seem to think it serves a purpose for them, otherwise they would not be using it.  If they really thought it would hurt their income, they wouldn't be using it.  Sorry, but I trust their opinion far more than I trust yours. 

Its NOT the Dev's at NC... Its the SUITS. You do understand the difference? ^^  Most of the Dev's I've spoken with over the years despise apps like gameguard.  Its the suits who think its the greatest thing since sliced bread. Why? because of the smoke and mirrors they have been sold on. In reality gameguard is easy to bypass, and each new addition is cracked within hours(if not minutes) of release.  That is the fact that the Dev's understand, and the suits seldom if ever will.