This game started out great and with each expansion pack it keep getting worse and worse.  But thats my opinion.

Each patch they make it easier for scrubs. Giving free epics away. Lower level mounts. Power leveling. Thanks Blizzard for screwing the game.

 The problem is that people on mmorpg.com represent the minority, and as a community we are completely wrong about what direction games like WoW should be developed.

Originally posted by Vrika

 The problem is that people on mmorpg.com represent the minority, and as a community we are completely wrong about what direction games like WoW should be developed.

^^^ QFT haha this made me chuckle because of how true it is. As much as we whine we are the minority. Kids like my brother ~15-16 years old never visits forums at all and are quite happy with the state of the game.

Every where else people are in favor of the game. This site basically has all those that dislike/hate WoW. This has been known for a while.

Originally posted by Apham

 

^^^ QFT haha this made me chuckle because of how true it is. As much as we whine we are the minority. Kids like my brother ~15-16 years old never visits forums at all and are quite happy with the state of the game.

The MAJORITY of Wow players are in the age of:

25 - 54 year olds.

reference: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/

Study of Nielsen in 2008/2009.  Study with 1.8 mullion US citizens.

So apparently members on mmorpg.com have NO clue what they are talking about :)))

Lucky for me, because I like WoW :)))

 And of course the 300 members logged in daily on these forums are a rare minority of mmorpg players. They are mostly (not all) bored with some games and are on the constant look out for a "new" game to appear.

The problem is they don't realise what it takes in resources to make a good new mmorpg these days and so hop from one game to another  without getting any (or hardly any) return. It's a no go for the industry either. Because each new game loses players faster than we can say the word "subscription".

That's not the fault of Blizzard. That's just the result of the personal perception of these posters on mmorpg.com which - of course - is meaningless when you consider what is needed to make good games that a lot of people simply like to play.

The worst what can happen is that some game designers actually would start reading these forums. It already started when the old president of FunCom began to compare the MMO's with food... Such silly statements (purely coming from forum trolls) actually resulted in one of the least succesful mmo's ever launched (AoC). Another example is M.J. who really thought everyone was bored of Wow (and so thought "everyone" was posting).

No Br. Spears is not an MMO and Wow is NOT specialised in fast food and 98% of Wow players simply like to play WOW...on their own schedule ... with or without breaks.

First lessons for mmorpg.com dwellers....

Of course WoW players don't come on the forums and complain because well.....they are playing WoW.   I just feel with the degrating difficulty of the game has reduced the game to a fraction of what it once was...in 3-4 years and after the next two xpacs (and blizzard promises 2 more xpac 1 to raise the cap to lvl 90 and the last ot finish it to lvl 100. but by then Blizzard will be ready to unleash their 2nd mmorpg.   So yeah I think every expansion pack drives more and more of their character base away.

Originally posted by graggok

This game started out great and with each expansion pack it keep getting worse and worse.  But thats my opinion.

your opinion will be the doom of us all...

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Apham

 

^^^ QFT haha this made me chuckle because of how true it is. As much as we whine we are the minority. Kids like my brother ~15-16 years old never visits forums at all and are quite happy with the state of the game.

The MAJORITY of Wow players are in the age of:

25 - 54 year olds.

reference: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/

Study of Nielsen in 2008/2009.  Study with 1.8 mullion US citizens.

So apparently members on mmorpg.com have NO clue what they are talking about :)))

Lucky for me, because I like WoW :)))

 And of course the 300 members logged in daily on these forums are a rare minority of mmorpg players. They are mostly (not all) bored with some games and are on the constant look out for a "new" game to appear.

The problem is they don't realise what it takes in resources to make a good new mmorpg these days and so hop from one game to another  without getting any (or hardly any) return. It's a no go for the industry either. Because each new game loses players faster than we can say the word "subscription".

That's not the fault of Blizzard. That's just the result of the personal perception of these posters on mmorpg.com which - of course - is meaningless when you consider what is needed to make good games that a lot of people simply like to play.

The worst what can happen is that some game designers actually would start reading these forums. It already started when the old president of FunCom began to compare the MMO's with food... Such silly statements (purely coming from forum trolls) actually resulted in one of the least succesful mmo's ever launched (AoC). Another example is M.J. who really thought everyone was bored of Wow (and so thought "everyone" was posting).

No Br. Spears is not an MMO and Wow is NOT specialised in fast food and 98% of Wow players simply like to play WOW...on their own schedule ... with or without breaks.

First lessons for mmorpg.com dwellers....

 

the MAJORITY of Wow players are also casual gamers / have never played any other game on the entire planet ever since they were born...

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Apham

 

^^^ QFT haha this made me chuckle because of how true it is. As much as we whine we are the minority. Kids like my brother ~15-16 years old never visits forums at all and are quite happy with the state of the game.

The MAJORITY of Wow players are in the age of:

25 - 54 year olds.

reference: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/

Study of Nielsen in 2008/2009.  Study with 1.8 mullion US citizens.

So apparently members on mmorpg.com have NO clue what they are talking about :)))

Lucky for me, because I like WoW :)))

 And of course the 300 members logged in daily on these forums are a rare minority of mmorpg players. They are mostly (not all) bored with some games and are on the constant look out for a "new" game to appear.

The problem is they don't realise what it takes in resources to make a good new mmorpg these days and so hop from one game to another  without getting any (or hardly any) return. It's a no go for the industry either. Because each new game loses players faster than we can say the word "subscription".

That's not the fault of Blizzard. That's just the result of the personal perception of these posters on mmorpg.com which - of course - is meaningless when you consider what is needed to make good games that a lot of people simply like to play.

The worst what can happen is that some game designers actually would start reading these forums. It already started when the old president of FunCom began to compare the MMO's with food... Such silly statements (purely coming from forum trolls) actually resulted in one of the least succesful mmo's ever launched (AoC). Another example is M.J. who really thought everyone was bored of Wow (and so thought "everyone" was posting).

No Br. Spears is not an MMO and Wow is NOT specialised in fast food and 98% of Wow players simply like to play WOW...on their own schedule ... with or without breaks.

First lessons for mmorpg.com dwellers....

 

hehe, hope that never happens in larger scale.

have to say tho defending world of warcraft form ym side also, havent been playing since i clicked some toon to 80. and still i think im going to buy evrey expansion they bring i also enjoy it .  retired by meantime in Vanguard.

Originally posted by graggok

This game started out great and with each expansion pack it keep getting worse and worse.  But thats my opinion.

Amazing.  I never thought of it this way before?  Such a well articulated argument.  I mean you hit on sooo many different perspectives that I can't help but wonder if in fact you're onto something.

**edit for humor**

Bread is bad, each time they add a new flavor of bread it gets worse and worse.  But that's my humble opinion.

**end edit**

Note the missing of which "kind" of bread is bad, or which "flavor", also the absence of a possible suggestion as to what could be done about the dilapitated state of said bread.  Most importantly, does the original poster in fact continue to eat bread whilst hinting at the whether or not bread should even continue to exist?

Originally posted by Trunkoso

The problem is that blizzard hear every crybabies out there, instead of making a great mmo experience.

Takes one to know one.

Originally posted by snotgobb

Each patch they make it easier for scrubs. Giving free epics away. Lower level mounts. Power leveling. Thanks Blizzard for screwing the game.

Scrubs? Is this 2001, is TLC the top pop group? I suppose you wanted to seem cool by not saying "n00bs". How do you expect people to level through the same old content without a boost? Sure they need to learn their class, but it really doesn't take 80 levels of repetition to learn a WoW class.

As far as epics go, they're just items. They are, and will always be, given to those who invest time. At least by lowering time required to achieve these epics, they level the playing field somewhat. I mean to complain about WoW gear being too easy to get, you may as well say "I like being more powerful than everyone else based on my superior time sinking, rather than my skill."

what blizz is doing and is so far working is the Idea "Bring the Player not the class".

Originally posted by Frostbite05

what blizz is doing and is so far working is the Idea "Bring the Player not the class".

Exactly, it's intended for you to be able to say to your friend " Hey, we're going to X tonight, wanna come along?" instead of "Hey, we're going to X tonight, too bad you're not class Y"

Yea, my friend has played WoW as his first MMO, he's starting to hate the game because its become alot easier then it was before.  He says he can't play any other MMO's because it has to be like WoW.  I'm like "thats sad".  He blames the standard WoW gave. 

I guess this would be WoW's advantage for doing most things right at first.  New MMO players are expecting WoW's level of design to other MMO's.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Apham

 

^^^ QFT haha this made me chuckle because of how true it is. As much as we whine we are the minority. Kids like my brother ~15-16 years old never visits forums at all and are quite happy with the state of the game.

The MAJORITY of Wow players are in the age of:

25 - 54 year olds.

reference: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/

Study of Nielsen in 2008/2009.  Study with 1.8 mullion US citizens.

So apparently members on mmorpg.com have NO clue what they are talking about :)))

Lucky for me, because I like WoW :)))

 ... yadda yadda blahblah ...hic

Same old madness over and over and over.

WHO OR WHAT in the name of god made such an absurd survey. Was it straight away financed by Blizzard marketing section? No doubt about that, with their 40$ mil budget solely for marketing.

Is relevant the age you sign up at your account? WoW is a payed game, you have to have a credit card or buy these game cards. Undoubtedly majority of all these accounts were made by the childrens' parents. What 14 year old KID HAS ITS OWN CREDIT CARD? Is relevant an internet survey where most of the players just use a higher age than they really have? You believe all shit happened to be placed somewhere on a blog and even dare to use it as a source. Unbelievable.

interesting theory, however the eventuality of it is blizzard will be the death of wow, when they've decided it's been milked enough and prepare the next big thing. 

I love to hate on WoW, I love to play WoW, but then I also love vanguard.  Where does that put me on a chart? :P

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Apham

 

^^^ QFT haha this made me chuckle because of how true it is. As much as we whine we are the minority. Kids like my brother ~15-16 years old never visits forums at all and are quite happy with the state of the game.

The MAJORITY of Wow players are in the age of:

25 - 54 year olds.

reference: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/

Study of Nielsen in 2008/2009.  Study with 1.8 mullion US citizens.

So apparently members on mmorpg.com have NO clue what they are talking about :)))

Lucky for me, because I like WoW :)))

 ... yadda yadda blahblah ...hic

 

DID you even bother to read the study in pdf you posted? It's radiculous.

"For electronic measurement of PC games, the Nielsen MegaPanel® sample of more than
185,000 US tracked PC’s is used. The software based metering technology allows for individual
programs to be identified. When a program is run on a PC, the program name as well as the
person(s) using the PC is collected by the meter."

Did they also study how many kids have their own computers? Did they study that families might have just one computer. Are they tracking it down who is logged in what account? There's no mention about that. The PDF is unprofessional and there's no reason to believe the data at all unless you would want to see such results.

The question is: what is this Nielsen company and who pays their bills? 

<Mod Edited>

Now I dont think everything blizzard is doing is perfect but some of the things people complain about astounds me.

Mounts at level 20. HOW  IS THIS A PROBLEM the worst thing about the game is running for half an hour at level 20 through a zone 4 or 5 times as large as it needs to be to head off to the next part of the game. So, they are finally fixing this. HOORAY! I am glad. If this makes you quit, then well good. Blizzard made the zones big because they thought they would have a lot of returning players at level cap with mounts etc. They worked out this isnt the way it goes down, and because they cant just shrink the zones, they came up with a working solution and are fixing it. Crazy I know! I mean imagine if instead of granting earlier mounts and opening up more flight points, they just shrank loch modan, and then where the big black hole where it used to join wetlands is, just make a teleporter, or better yet one weird long step which kinda warp-boosts your character to wetlands. yeah thatd make sense I wonder why they didnt do that?

Next up, oh yeah POWER LEVELLING. You mean, how they're keeping it so that no matter how many levels there are, you can still get to the latest content without sandpapering off your face? Cheers. Or, that, how because levelling used to take so long for the majority of the players, theyd buy services? Right. Are you angry because you are chinese? Blizzard designed the level grind under the impression that long levelling time = learning your class. They realized this is wrong and changed it. So we are to laud blizzard for improving the game?

GOLD/DAILIES aaah yes now dailies are cheap content, I will admit this, however nobody in the history of EVER has given a better solution. The only solution ive ever seen is 'grind mobs for 5 days for gold' ! I loved hunting those 3 mobs in that tower which dropped crusader. That was the best! Atleast blizzard have provided a lot of FUN with their GRIND. You know, like the bombing and the flying the planes and the all out war and the gargoyles and the digging and the sieging and the tournament and the black knight questline or the festivals because juggling fire knives is totaly unfun right? or the maypole dancing or the beer drinking or the valentines day or the childrens week and way too fucking much to mention. The idea IS NOT that you do all 25dailies a day, but that out of the 40-50 available you pick the ones you like the most (for me its the shozlazar and logging camp (grr cant remember name) because they are varied, intersting and bound to give a few frost lotus on my travels)

Achievements - theres this whole funny charade over the idea of achievements being lazy cop outs for extra content. Well lactually do you remember when raiding had the dificulty options of hard. Yeah achievements are hard mode raiding in the old style. Non achievement versions of fights are the easy mode for people who previously could not see raids. You have no right to exclusivity and blizzard has, on many occasions through wrath, explained where the door is if you disagree. Then I see these same people who moan about achievments refuse to do them,...isnt this admitting you're a bit shit at the game?

WELFARE EPICS! OMFG this subject makes me laugh, a lot from deep down inside of me. OK explain to me, right, when the next set of gear comes out (next raid and dungeon) where exactly is this sub par gear going to beat the new stuff? ITS NOT. IT NEVER HAS. IT NEVER WILL. SOoo...theres a few just under raid level BOE epics a raider can buy and give to his friends/alts.

What they do do, however, is make it so that there is less need to do the same ol same old which is now 6months old. YOu know how before everyone had 1 character only because it was too ardous? (yes i am aware of the circle jerking idiot who will claim he has 7 pre TBC 60s and shit like that, no lifers are the exception that provesthe rule) now we actually have some choice. Most people I know have a dps char and either a healer or a tank. some people use dual specs to cover all 3 bases. OH MY GOD DUAL SPECS ITS LIKE THEY WANT YOU TO HAVE FUN. Yeah lets go back to the old days where the main tanks not logging on/being around meant that th whole nights plan was out the window, instead of mr B logging his alt tank, handily helped along to raiding by some WELFARE LEWTS!!!!1! and actually getting to raid.

The game used to offer serveral ways to play which were all mutually exclusive. IE on a given night it felt like I could either raid, herb, daily, rep up, or dungeon. With wrath I can still do all of those, however I can sweep round my dailies while herbing, getting into a little pvp (i travel the well flown routes for more pvp) get some rep while doing so and then pop into a raid having my gold for the night, flasks/materials from the herbing ready and have a very good time.

All blizzard has done is to make the serperate parts of the game much more cohesive and actually now lets me play with my friends on more occasions. Yes raiding is a little bit easier, no I did not hope to be working on Yogg already however out of 4 years its been the best 5 months out of them all. There is hard stuff. There are fights which require perfect co-ordination, if you say there arent then you simply cant be playing the game, or play it on easy mode and pretend you're amazing because that's the closest you can get.

The game is no longer the obscure basement dwelling fatty bombatty spotty nerdgasm it used to be. Now its fun! Hooray for fun! I like fun! Yes, it is ladies and gentleman, grown up from the days of loot lagging across an entire zone just because somebody whispered you as you were bending down. Shall we go back to 1.3? Really? It was really hardcore! It was clear which parts of the game werent fun and never would be. Blizard is on a revolving fixation process and each iteration they get cloer and closer to perfection, all the while the same sad people call doom and forecast death apon all idiots who dare play such a fun game. Original wow laid out many grand concepts, tweaked with fun in mind, from then til TBC they tried to re-iterate the raiding process into a more streamlined process which was easier on the formation side. With wrath they again improved apon this. 3.2 they have another slightly tweaked iteration of the raiding model. I fully exect it to nail it really.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Apham

 

^^^ QFT haha this made me chuckle because of how true it is. As much as we whine we are the minority. Kids like my brother ~15-16 years old never visits forums at all and are quite happy with the state of the game.

The MAJORITY of Wow players are in the age of:

25 - 54 year olds.

reference: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/

Study of Nielsen in 2008/2009.  Study with 1.8 mullion US citizens.

So apparently members on mmorpg.com have NO clue what they are talking about :)))

Lucky for me, because I like WoW :)))

 ... yadda yadda blahblah ...hic

 

DID you even bother to read the study in pdf you posted? It's radiculous.

"For electronic measurement of PC games, the Nielsen MegaPanel® sample of more than
185,000 US tracked PC’s is used. The software based metering technology allows for individual
programs to be identified. When a program is run on a PC, the program name as well as the
person(s) using the PC is collected by the meter."

Did they also study how many kids have their own computers? Did they study that families might have just one computer. Are they tracking it down who is logged in what account? There's no mention about that. The PDF is unprofessional and there's no reason to believe the data at all unless you would want to see such results.

The question is: what is this Nielsen company and who pays their bills? 

Nielsen is one of the major survey companies in the US. They are primarily known for their television ratings (who watched what and how long). They are a well respected company and have been in the survey/measuring business for a very long time.  A sample of 185,000 is a large sample for the study as well. Comparitively, Gallup, the best polling company dealing with surveys in the US can get an accurate measure of the entire US voting population with only a survey of 1500 persons.

As to the disucssion, the MMO forums here are full of elitist people who know more (or think they no more ) about the MMO genre than they really do. This includes me too. This was okay and fairly accurate when the genre was very insular and there were few games. However, WOW is a cultural phenomenon and, at this point, explaining its success takes more than a few trolls/fanbois on a set of MMO forums.

A large percentage of WOW players don't care about sandboxes, other MMO's, and have not been in the MMO market for a long time; therefore, it is impossible for a bunch of elitist MMO fans to fully understand the appeal of WOW. As it has been said, most people who comment in these forums regarding WOW are either frustrated or angry with Blizzard. And this is why they get so upset when real world statisitcal proof is offered that counters their negative views.

I did not talk about WoW at all. I refuse to believe a survey claiming that majority of video gamers are girls aged 25-52. That's just ridiculous.

Originally posted by Thillian

I did not talk about WoW at all. I refuse to believe a survey claiming that majority of video gamers are girls aged 25-52. That's just ridiculous.

Then don't believe it, it doesn't make it any less true.

I will believe neilsen's ratings and surveys over the opinions on a forum everyday. And if you prefer, you can go to the neilsen site and get more information on their methodology.

Its statistics like this that indicate a changing MMO market and why some games are succeeding well and others are falteringly badly.

EDIT: Actually, the report says the majority of PC gamers are female. That includes all types of gaming including games like Freecell, Solitaire, and Pogo games in addition to MMO's.

The reason for the increase in PC usage is that consoles have increased in their usage and console gaming is mainly where the male audience has gone lately. If you look at the top titles for consoles (other than some Wii games), they are usually FPs types games which are dominated by males.

---

Originally posted by graggok
So yeah I think every expansion pack drives more and more of their character base away.

---

Pretty much shows how accurate you are.

each xpac makes the game seem more and more socially exceptable. Before this took place you were basically a loser for playing any MMO. Times sure have changed.