I wouldn't recommend this game to anyone in its current state and having purchased it, I feel ripped off.

I think it's perfectly fair to trash the game - especially in these forums which inform potential customers of the real nature of the product.

I think Aventurine have made several critical errors which may doom the game.

But I also think they deserve a little credit.

There have been a number of mmos in the past decade that have made bold claims re revolutionary gameplay. Many never made it to release (eg. Wish, Dragon Empires). Some made it to release but minus any of the promised "revolutionary" features (eg. Vanguard). Most, like Darkfall, were released in an appalling unfinished state with the questionable expectation that consumers would be happy to pay for them.

Darkfall has undoubtedly missed the mark - no bullseye, and I'm not sure they've even grazed the target - but they took the shot. Even though the current product isn't exactly what they promised, I think the attempt is something that will ultimately benefit the industry.

out of curiosity, what were you expecting? WOW with full loot? did you research the game at all before buying? What game did you come from and what game are you going back to?

DF is a sandbox MMO with an emphasis on PVP and conquest, and that's exactly what it delivers. IMO.

Originally posted by javac

out of curiosity, what were you expecting? WOW with full loot? did you research the game at all before buying? What game did you come from and what game are you going back to?

 

DF is a sandbox MMO with an emphasis on PVP and conquest, and that's exactly what it delivers. IMO.

 Hmmm......maybe he read the Offical website and ended up expecting all those in-game features to be present, when in fact they were not. Ya know, I could see how that might disappoint someone that spent good money and then found out that the game was in fact incomplete.

I sure know that *I'd* be unhappy if that were the case....how about you?

And......well, you see, there's this problem with doing "research" of DF before buying....let's take these forums, for instance.

It's not uncommon to find *WILDLY* exaggerated claims by the games fans here, and a prospective buyer could certainly  be led  into thinking that the game was more complete ( or had a healthier population, for instance ) than is the truth.

Yeah.....it's a shame that a few of the game's fans  feel the need to frequently exaggerate things about this game to others.....almost like they were trying to coax the unwary into buying a game, where instead ,prospective players would be much better served by being told the truth, and having them wait six months until some of the games features are actually placed into the game.

Or the game goes under due to the dramatically dropping population.

Or a final thought, we could recommend that prospective players instead consider Mortal Online, they could look at all the evidence and maybe come up with a decision that won't leave them feeling cheated.

That'd be a nice change, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by Hammertime1

 

 [...]

Or a final thought, we could recommend that prospective players instead consider Mortal Online, they could look at all the evidence and maybe come up with a decision that won't leave them feeling cheated.

That'd be a nice change, wouldn't it?

 

That would indeed be a nice change and as nice as the features in MO may sound and as good as the communication between the devs and the playerbase is ... it has yet to prove itself to be a delivering and working game. I still have hope but after so many games that failed to hold it's promises like AOC, warhammer and (the worst of all) DF lately ... it's hard to keep up the good faith. :)

time will tell i guess!

Originally posted by Hammertime1

It's not uncommon to find *WILDLY* exaggerated claims by the games fans here, and a prospective buyer could certainly  be led  into thinking that the game was more complete ( or had a healthier population, for instance ) than is the truth.

 

Yeah.....it's a shame that a few of the game's fans  feel the need to frequently exaggerate things about this game to others.....almost like they were trying to coax the unwary into buying a game, where instead ,prospective players would be much better served by being told the truth, and having them wait six months until some of the games features are actually placed into the game.

Or the game goes under due to the dramatically dropping population.

 

Or a final thought, we could recommend that prospective players instead consider Mortal Online, they could look at all the evidence and maybe come up with a decision that won't leave them feeling cheated.

That'd be a nice change, wouldn't it?

one person's "awesome game" is another's piece of shit. the sooner you realise that the sooner you'll stop being so easily disappointed.

DF is my "awesome game", and frankly i hope people who aren't likely to enjoy DF don't try it.

as for research, no i meant reading something like the last 12 months of the developer journals, and looking at the mass of videos and screenshots that are out.

it simply amazes me that anyone could be naive enough to think that MO will magically release without the same collection of early bugs and "missing content" that DF released with. MO already has only a fraction of the content of DF now, and by the time MO actually releases DF will have had 6 full months of improvements and patches.

Im glad it's your awesome game but it was not as advertised.  It's incredibly drull props to those who play it tho your better than I am, im only 20% masochist :)

Lol.. Most of the features they promised are in the game, i dont get what you are complaining about.

Originally posted by javac

it simply amazes me that anyone could be naive enough to think that MO will magically release without the same collection of early bugs and "missing content" that DF released with. MO already has only a fraction of the content of DF now, and by the time MO actually releases DF will have had 6 full months of improvements and patches.

I lol`d!

Originally posted by javac

 

one person's "awesome game" is another's piece of shit. the sooner you realise that the sooner you'll stop being so easily disappointed.

 

DF is my "awesome game", and frankly i hope people who aren't likely to enjoy DF don't try it.

 

as for research, no i meant reading something like the last 12 months of the developer journals, and looking at the mass of videos and screenshots that are out.

 

it simply amazes me that anyone could be naive enough to think that MO will magically release without the same collection of early bugs and "missing content" that DF released with. MO already has only a fraction of the content of DF now, and by the time MO actually releases DF will have had 6 full months of improvements and patches.

1. that is ok, it's all about personal choice and preferance, so nothing to argue here

2. they won't, df already had enough bad publicity and the word of mouth hype that av relied and built on turned the opposite way, a reason why the shop is permantly open and the playerbase shrinks from day to day

3. you know, many of us followed this game for a few years and not only for the last 12 months - you know very well how much tasos lied and how they treat their loyal fans like a piece of shit, no matter what kind of interviews you pull up. also look at their website, there is NO EXCUSE for not updating at least the feature list, they trick people who don't have the background knowledge into this game with features that are simply not there, in many countries that is criminal behaviour / scam

4. who said in this thread that MO won't have any issues at launch? there isn't that much hype about MO like it was the case with DF, also the devs currently seem to be pretty honest about what will make it into the game and what not - communication with the playerbase you know, not deleting anything that is critique on their forum. not arrogant, immature nerd-talk and lying about the features or the state of the game like tasos did, what happened to all the features that were completed and working, tested by their "artificial intelligence" - what happened to the trial since the game was so polished and would "clearly speak for itself". so many beta players gave suggestions about what to improve and fix, so many in beta begged to delay the release since the game had fundamental flaws, they were ignored and sometimes even banned from their boards... guess they finally ran out of money and had to release since they didn't find anyone to further fund them.

would you have the same patience and tolerance for a company in rl that would treat you like that?

---

Originally posted by javac

out of curiosity, what were you expecting? WOW with full loot? did you research the game at all before buying? What game did you come from and what game are you going back to?
 
DF is a sandbox MMO with an emphasis on PVP and conquest, and that's exactly what it delivers. IMO.

---

Originally posted by javac

out of curiosity, what were you expecting? WOW with full loot? did you research the game at all before buying? What game did you come from and what game are you going back to?

 

DF is a sandbox MMO with an emphasis on PVP and conquest, and that's exactly what it delivers. IMO.

Ahh... I see you're still in step with the DF fanboy party line, javac...

The OP at no point bashes the game, he gives some fair criticism of it and then even gives AV credit in his post for at least taking a shot at something new and revolutionary (which is what they were hyping it as prior to launch)... He said nothing to warrant such a response from you.

Oh, but he made a big boo-boo, didn't he... He said critical things of it. So, predictably as always... a rabid fan had to immediately pounce on him for it.

You guys never cease to amuse me.

Originally posted by javac

out of curiosity, what were you expecting? WOW with full loot? did you research the game at all before buying? What game did you come from and what game are you going back to?

 

DF is a sandbox MMO with an emphasis on PVP and conquest, and that's exactly what it delivers. IMO.

Darfkall is not a sandbox MMO.  It was supposed to be, just like it was supposed to have many other features that never made it into the game (weather, player housing, maharim 4-legged run, etc...), but it's not.  I've refuted you,and others, on this point several times and I'll continue doing so when you make such ridiculous claims.  

Is Darkfall a sandbox?  No.  You truly can't do what you want in the game. Most fans will argue that in order for you to really accomplish anything and have fun in the game, you need to  join a clan and participate in all the cool big clan activities like sieges.  How is that sandbox?  In a real sandbox, ANY player--guilded or not--should be able to have fun doing just about anything!  Here's a scenario I gave in another thread:

If I want to set up a farmstead, I should be able to and I should be able to employ some hirelings to protect it.  Granted, somebody could still kill them, but doing so should have consequences, unless their of an opposing alliance.  The hirelings should provide some defense, though.  If a player of the same alliance kills my hirelings, they should be flagged rogue, just as if they had killed me.  Of course, all this is moot, since none of it exists...

Case in point,  this morning I did some more exploring and found a completely empty clan hamlet, at which I could do pretty much nothing.  I couldn't steal anything from their unprotected bank.  I didn't have a siege hammer, so I couldn't start knocking down walls, I don't belong to a clan, so I couldn't declare a war against them (if I could, it would give them a 4 hour window to prepare), etc....  So, basically, I wandered into an empty village and couldn't do squat.  That's entertainment...  I should have been able to kill their NPCs (or at least die trying), break into their bank, set fire to their buildings, etc...,  I shouldn't have to be in a clan in order to do any of these things (some of which you can't do, like rob the bank, even if you're in a clan).  If the empty hamlet belonged to my race/alliance, there should be consequences to my actions (except maybe robbing their bank, if I'm a good thief - how would they know it was me?).  If it belonged to another faction, I should get alignment points for causing mayhem there.

• Can I build a house? No
• Can I set up a farmstead or mine? No
• Can I have my own store, either brick-and-mortar or online? No - I can only spam the trade channel.
• Do I have to be in a group in order to kill most mobs?  Yes
• Can I rob an unprotected bank? No
• Do I have to be in a clan in order to  particpate in most activies (sieging, building, etc...)? Yes 
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city anywhere they want?  No
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city any way they want? No

So, what are the sandbox aspects of Darkfall?  Crafting?  Politics? That's it?  Those mechanics exist in most other games, too, and done better (auction houses or individual shops, for example).

I'm starting to think Aventurine's definition of sandbox is "game that's not finished yet"

~Ripper

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by Hammertime1

It's not uncommon to find *WILDLY* exaggerated claims by the games fans here, and a prospective buyer could certainly  be led  into thinking that the game was more complete ( or had a healthier population, for instance ) than is the truth.

 

Yeah.....it's a shame that a few of the game's fans  feel the need to frequently exaggerate things about this game to others.....almost like they were trying to coax the unwary into buying a game, where instead ,prospective players would be much better served by being told the truth, and having them wait six months until some of the games features are actually placed into the game.

Or the game goes under due to the dramatically dropping population.

 

Or a final thought, we could recommend that prospective players instead consider Mortal Online, they could look at all the evidence and maybe come up with a decision that won't leave them feeling cheated.

That'd be a nice change, wouldn't it?

 

one person's "awesome game" is another's piece of shit. the sooner you realise that the sooner you'll stop being so easily disappointed.

 

DF is my "awesome game", and frankly i hope people who aren't likely to enjoy DF don't try it.

 

as for research, no i meant reading something like the last 12 months of the developer journals, and looking at the mass of videos and screenshots that are out.

 

it simply amazes me that anyone could be naive enough to think that MO will magically release without the same collection of early bugs and "missing content" that DF released with. MO already has only a fraction of the content of DF now, and by the time MO actually releases DF will have had 6 full months of improvements and patches.

MO has less features than flyable boats and spam left cick run in a circle zerg combat? I can't immagine a game havin less than both of Darkfalls features.
 

Originally posted by rhinok

 and couldn't do squat.  That's entertainment...  I should have been able to kill their NPCs (or at least die trying), break into their bank, set fire to their buildings, etc...,  I shouldn't have to be in a clan in order to do any of these things (some of which you can't do, like rob the bank, even if you're in a clan).  If the empty hamlet belonged to my race/alliance, there should be consequences to my actions (except maybe robbing their bank, if I'm a good thief - how would they know it was me?).  If it belonged to another faction, I should get alignment points for causing mayhem there.

• Can I build a house? No
• Can I set up a farmstead or mine? No
• Can I have my own store, either brick-and-mortar or online? No - I can only spam the trade channel.
• Do I have to be in a group in order to kill most mobs?  Yes
• Can I rob an unprotected bank? No
• Do I have to be in a clan in order to  particpate in most activies (sieging, building, etc...)? Yes 
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city anywhere they want?  No
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city any way they want? No

So, what are the sandbox aspects of Darkfall?  Crafting?  Politics? That's it?  Those mechanics exist in most other games, too, and done better (auction houses or individual shops, for example).

I'm starting to think Aventurine's definition of sandbox is "game that's not finished yet"

~Ripper

 

Solo-friendly doesn't equal sand-box.  Do you have to be in a clan to participate in sieging... gosh I sure hope so, because a 1 man siege will look quite silly.  UO would answer most of those questions you asked in a similar way, and it was still very much a sand-box.  I think that on a scale from Dropped-into-a-completely-empty-world-total-anarchy-clusterf*** and Follow-the-sheeple-in-front-of-you, Darkfall is infinitely closer to pure sand-boxism then 90% other games on the market.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by javac

out of curiosity, what were you expecting? WOW with full loot? did you research the game at all before buying? What game did you come from and what game are you going back to?

 

DF is a sandbox MMO with an emphasis on PVP and conquest, and that's exactly what it delivers. IMO.

 

Ahh... I see you're still in step with the DF fanboy party line, javac...

The OP at no point bashes the game, he gives some fair criticism of it and then even gives AV credit in his post for at least taking a shot at something new and revolutionary (which is what they were hyping it as prior to launch)... He said nothing to warrant such a response from you.

Oh, but he made a big boo-boo, didn't he... He said critical things of it. So, predictably as always... a rabid fan had to immediately pounce on him for it.

You guys never cease to amuse me.

Anytime someone throws a IMO in the end of their opinion they gain credibility and can not be considered a fanboy

Originally posted by javac

out of curiosity, what were you expecting? WOW with full loot? did you research the game at all before buying? What game did you come from and what game are you going back to?

 

DF is a sandbox MMO with an emphasis on PVP and conquest, and that's exactly what it delivers. IMO.

After 8 years of development, and developers saying that they can do it better than the AAA houses. I think people were expecting a complete, finished, and polished sandbox game. This is not what we got.

Lets all be honest. as far as features go, DF has failed to deliver! simple fact. What AV have done though is made a solid core to thier game that works. For gamers that do want something different and dont mind a hell of a grind, open loot etc then is there anything better out there? ( EVE does not fix all btw :) ) but people are right to be upset with AV,

But as for sandbox def....wasnt sandbox idea this? A box full of sand that you have to use your imaginaton and find things to do! it's turned in the last 6 months to this " pandora's box...open it up and find everything you ever wished for so you can do whatever you want" No sandbox is a box full of sand...ie nothing in there to do other than amuse yourselves..just like ryzom etc....oh and although DF isnt a traditional sandbox..it's closer than any other fantasy game at the min.

But OP you have hit it right there friend. AV missed the mark. But please do us so called fanboys a favour and explain what AV have done right as some of still love the game :) i simply still can't find any other game that can keep me interested, and although DF isn't feature complete...what features are there work fine and present me with a lot of fun! so both sides need to start being honest :) fans tell em as it is...tell them whats good but admit that things are missing are Av dropped the ball. Haters, tell people why the game is bad by all means but theres no need to say the game is broken, as it simply isn't....missing features are not broken they are missing.

Come on gamers lets start to help each other and get this site out of the gutters! we are the ones that put it down there so it's up to us to get it back out! lets get rid of this "mmo cesspit" tag that we have earn't this site!

Darkfail fans  Just consitently confuse sand box with litter box, which is what AV created.

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Darkfail fans  Just consitently confuse sand box with litter box, which is what AV created.

Case in point! these are the comments we need to stop! what is the point of it other than getting post count up? it adds nothing to any disscusion and just gives other sites a chance to smile at us! surely you have more to offer than that friend.
 

Why is Darkfall a litter box? tell potential buyers why they shouldnt buy the game or why you think they shouldnt.

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by javac

out of curiosity, what were you expecting? WOW with full loot? did you research the game at all before buying? What game did you come from and what game are you going back to?

 

DF is a sandbox MMO with an emphasis on PVP and conquest, and that's exactly what it delivers. IMO.

• Can I build a house? No
• Can I set up a farmstead or mine? No
• Can I have my own store, either brick-and-mortar or online? No - I can only spam the trade channel.
• Do I have to be in a group in order to kill most mobs?  Yes
• Can I rob an unprotected bank? No
• Do I have to be in a clan in order to  particpate in most activies (sieging, building, etc...)? Yes 
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city anywhere they want?  No
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city any way they want? No

I'm starting to think Aventurine's definition of sandbox is "game that's not finished yet"

~Ripper

 

I'll be another to say that DF is not a true sandbox.  But it is the most compelling and freedom of tethered coded static environment available, where players influence the game-play environment and take on the roll of a mob which are hard-coded into most games for combat and gain.

This is not a solo game, never has been designed that way, or thought about changing their core dynamic in that direction for years.  DF is a purely social team-oriented, guild-centric game where you play the politics and diplomacy against the backdrop of small bands of players with the freedom to influence your game-play.

I agree that what would compel many to continue would be non-instanced player housing;but then again, there isnt an mmo that offers it.  But to think that there should be some safety of having a farmstead without being influenced by the player-driven ecosystem is outrageous, though you can have a farm within a hamelt.

So, while DF offers the greatest dynamic mmorpg to date within a player-centric ecosystem, you touch on a few things that no mmorpg has such as...

>player housing.

>brick and mortel store.

>robbing a bank.

>building a hamlet in any conceivable location.

. . . .and claim that those are the reasons why you wont leave your pve-centric, themepark game?  Alrighty then.