Really, I don't see the point of this post. Are you trying to show some kind of superiority or something?

Anyone is free to try this regardless of your "hardcore" label.

Ya, players can potentially be ganked anywhere, but not even the devs want the game to turn into an all out "fragfest" as they say, as you can see by their intentions of putting in a fairly harsh PK penalty.

FFA, full loot isn't all that hardcore when items are fairly unvaluable.

I'm sure anyone who is even remotely interested is aware of the FFA nature of the game, and it's their call if that's something they want to partake in, so don't come around here acting like you're some kind of hardcore overlord or some BS.

I think the OP is well intended but think I understand the disconnect here.    At the core he appers to be trying to make the point that when a game tried to be open and allow players freedom within a game where PvP "is" a key element, it has traditionally run in to major problems the more it uses code to control behavior.     The Karma system proposed in MO is an example of that.   So it's a concern, that 's all, not a "you MO fans are not hardcore enough"; just a concern over the development decisions of the game, and how it just may pan out contrary to what the code intends.    Outcome and intent are often out of synch when ideas go from paper to live.

Lineage ][  is used a lot as an example of how a Karma system with strict penalties on reds works.   I love Lineage ][, am not a chaotic player, and having played it for years will tell you it absolutely does not work.    What it does is force PvP to either be Guild vs Guild, or only take place during sieges.   This is "not" a bad thing, but also is not open PvP as some suggest.    Why is that an issue then?    It is an issue, because people always have, always will, and in Lineage ][ continue to find ways to use the Karma system as a form of griefing, the polar opposite of what it was intended for in the first place.   Sorry, would love to explain, but that is a few pages in itself.

Now here is where the OP may have experienced some confusion and concern.   If you look at the Faq, it says..

Q: What is Mortal Online?
A: Mortal Online is a first-person MMORPG in an open player-controlled fantasy game world for the PC. Player versus Player (PvP), or rather Player to Player interaction plays an important part in Mortal Online as trading, learning, combat, rumors and alliances are largely dependent on communication between players.

Q: What is the PvP like in Mortal Online?
A: Our game differs from most other MMORPG’s in the way that it is based on PvP and player interaction – the PvP is not a feature added on top of “the real game�. This means that Mortal Online is played on PvP servers only. Your chances of success in the real-time combat are based on your skills as a player, however character skills and equipment is of course an important factor to victory as well.

Ok, then we learn of the karma system, and in a PvP thread on the official forum, Bigg answers the question pretty well.

[quote=Bigg;359560]You should be able to kill anyone at anytime. Sometimes there will be consequences sometimes not. If you do not wish to become a murderer, kill those who are, kill players your guild is "at war" with, kill others who are harming your religions *god*. Kill those who are in your territory. There will be MANY reasons to PVP without pk/griefing. The end result should be few people killing others "for the hell of it" and a lot of people killing to accomplish player goals.[/quote]

No one is trying to rain on your parade.  We are just having a discussion, and while on paper much of this makes great sense; in practice is another story.          The have your cake and eat it to type of attempt being made here "may" work, and may not.   Never under-estimate the tenacity of players that want the freedom to attack or befriend who they wish, contrary to what the code imposes, to the point, that may just render the code feeble.   If that happens, the community will likely voice requests for harsher game code, and history is forced to repeat itself; ie  Trammel.

It's just discussion with very valid concerns.

As a huge fan of PvP MMO's, this will be the first game I've not pre-ordered to try and get in to its beta, and that's why I'm even posting the above.  I hope those of you that do get in, may find some thing of value in what I've said, and can help to focus in al the game mechanics to ensure it is as well thought out and many steps in front of the player game mecahnics wise, than previous games  have been.

-CC

It's amusing how people who were fanatically defending darkfall not long ago invade this forum... could it be that their perfect game is not so perfect after all?

What happened in darkfail, that the game was a massive pvp fragfest, happened because that was the only possible activity in the game. PvP without any kind of meaning, reason, just a big Unreal Tournament with swords. All the features that were promised on the website, the huge list that would have made the game a MMORPG, were mostly ditched.

If MO doesn't make the same mistake, and includes all the features listed and NEEDED to make a "sandbox" MMORPG, which means not only providing the sand, but also the tools to shape it, it will be a MMORPG and not a simple PvP zerg fest, it will be the successor of UO and not a dull, empty game where only one play style is viable.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

It's amusing how people who were fanatically defending darkfall not long ago invade this forum... could it be that their perfect game is not so perfect after all?

What happened in darkfail, that the game was a massive pvp fragfest, happened because that was the only possible activity in the game. PvP without any kind of meaning, reason, just a big Unreal Tournament with swords. All the features that were promised on the website, the huge list that would have made the game a MMORPG, were mostly ditched.

If MO doesn't make the same mistake, and includes all the features listed and NEEDED to make a "sandbox" MMORPG, which means not only providing the sand, but also the tools to shape it, it will be a MMORPG and not a simple PvP zerg fest, it will be the successor of UO and not a dull, empty game where only one play style is viable.

If you are talking to me, feel free to apologize.     How can you categorize me as "invading a forum" I've made one post in?

My comments were reasonable, articulate and a genuine attempt to explain, totally not deserving of the childish defensive angst you are now throwing my way.      I go to the trouble to write all that above, and this is all you can come up with?   Shame on you.   Please stop baiting.

Korrigan, any truely open FFA Game is a Fragfest to you.   It's not your style of gam; we've established this in the past,, but why you just can't leave it at that I don't know.   You like games where sides are determined by game code.   We've discussed this before, so naturally DFO wouldn't be for you.   That doesn't make it a fragfest, just a game that's not for you and one you are not willing to put the effort in to developing political relationships that draw more definition within the game "by players".

I come here in a mature manner in an attempt to try and add to the discussion, that I see sinking in to name calling.  What do you do, but just add fuel to the fire.      Well done.   I got nothing out of what you posted except the desire to flame, bait and argue.

-CC

Ah yes, I forgot that pointing out the weaknesses and flaws of your favorite game was considered "name calling" by you, even when I do it on a non-darkfall forum. My bad. I will still keep on giving my opinion, though, even if you dislike it. Specially HERE, on the MORTAL ONLINE forum, which is not the annex of the darkfall forum.

Just the crafting system of MO dwarfs the whole DFO game. To the opposite of tasos and company, the developers here humbly admit that there are elements missing in their game, and aren't arrogantly pretending it's the best and most complete thing since sliced bread. And as a bonus, they moderate their forums and won't accept that their community turns into a forumfall 2. Just the difference of attitude of the devs make MO a more pleasant place to be for me.

 I love the tears. PvP wouldn't be fun without them. 

So please everyone come and play, we won't bite I promise. This is a casual carebear game for all the family I promise!

Korrigan - Are you preordering MO?   I hope so, and if so, look forward to when you stop wasting time talking about a game you haven't played in over 5-months, to actually provide information on MO, a game we really know nothing about but what the developers have choosen to share.    I genuinely look forward to when the NDA is lifted.    Me, I wouldn't go near this promise of greatness with a ten foot pole "until" I know a lot more about it, if it actually works, and you know, all the little details web sites don't share.

Cheers -CC

I don't even know why you would play this game, chinacat, as you are totally satisfied with DFO and are praising the new additions in the "oh so great" expansion. The day you quit DFO for MO will be the proof that DFO wasn't actually the "oh so great" game you try to make us believe it is for ages now, with a total disrespect for the opinions of people who dare to disagree.

@chinacat:

Korrigan may well have been referring to you, but his comments about  "invading" from the Darkfall forum also apply to -zeno- (the OP).  In your case, I at least understand your point, while zeno's  comments are more along the lines of randomly thrown insults.  From reading zeno's other posts, I doubt that you're right about open PVP degenerating into a frag-fest and flagging/karma systems being counterproductive. Or at the very least if that is his point, he is VERY bad at making his point.

-zeno-  is pretty clearly a big fan of Darkfall, and likes to criticize MO (criticize may be a stretch).  On this forum he has started this thread and  "Is it me, or does the official forum sound like a fairy tale".  Meanwhile, on the Darkfall forum today he posted "Smooth launch! Good job AV", and "Official Darkfall NA Torrent link".

Originally posted by Variant13

When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk"

You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore".

These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it.

Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke)

FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore")

Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.

Nicely said.

I love the 'hardcore' crowd.  It makes me smile every time they say they want a 'hardcore PvP' game - because those games have been available for years.
But they don't play those games - or when they do - they don't stay.
Because 99% of them are all talk.
What they want is an "I win" button.  And that's fine while they are winning - but the first time they get hit themselves they run away with their tail between their legs.

I thought Darkfall was the promised land?  What happened?

What makes us hardcore is not that we're killers, but that we're flagged vulnerable to killers. We play the same carrot-stick game as the rest of you, but you only have to contend with robots who are designed from birth to die for your entertainment and vindication. Some of you have serious problems with the notion of fighting opponents that can defend themselves, or heaven forbid pick their battles and surprise you when you'd prefer to be doing something else.

None of this would matter much, and no one would consider themselves hardcore - because for many years we didn't - were it not for the fact that some of you are so grotesquely addicted to the thrill of murdering stuffed animals, and take such pride in the imaginary treasure rationed to you from your designated vending machines, that you not only become angry at a surprise attack by a human opponent but have long since ceased to question whether this is a rational response. You even base your purchasing decisions on this and grant it more weight than the setting of the game, the pacing of its action, or the quality of its writing.

We didn't used to get a thrill out of sneaking up on you and giving you a scare, and we didn't used to hope it bothered you. Hell, we would go hours at a stretch without even considering violence against another player. But now it's different! Now, if I see you hunting in a ruin, and it looks like I can get the jump on you, I'm going to do it. And it's not because I'm mean or because my penis is so small; it's because either you're insane and an asshole, or you're going to enjoy it and we're going to become friends.

I like to think that at the end of the day most of you aren't half as horrid as you let on, and that we'll all have a jolly laugh about these things sometime soon.

I agree with Einexile, if you hate being picked on, stick to playing tetris.

Part of my attraction towards MO is the PvP element - the eagerness to try it first had. I lingered on a WoW PvE server long enough. Time to move on, get my ass kicked and make new friends to stalk others with.

And if you like PvE but you also feel the urge to try MO, do like me: forget they're players; pretend others around you are hostile NPCs and try to outsmart them in combat. It would be like playing Mount&Blade on Difficult setting. This way you'll not be so taken back and shy away from combat.

I admit I`m a bit anctious about being corpse-stalked and picked on and ganked every other two minutes but I`m more than willing to get over it and improve my skills, specially when MO combat model is twitch-based.

See you on the killing fields!

/R.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

I don't even know why you would play this game, chinacat, as you are totally satisfied with DFO and are praising the new additions in the "oh so great" expansion. The day you quit DFO for MO will be the proof that DFO wasn't actually the "oh so great" game you try to make us believe it is for ages now, with a total disrespect for the opinions of people who dare to disagree.

I have no plans to play MO, and you would have known that if you bothered actually reading my posts (#62) instead of just reacting to the fact I posted.  

If I ever do play it, it will be the reason I currently play DFO, Lineage ][, Sacred 2, and Pre-Ordered AION.  I like to play games I enjoy, and don't limit myself to just one.       I can't even venture a guess on MO.    It appears from all the YouTube video and official web site stuff I've seen, it is in a very under-developed state.    One can only hope your tenacity to be critical and that same quality others here share, in addition to the pre-order funding of the dev. of the game, will help the developers during the remaing construction of the game prior to its release.   The more good games there are out in the market, the happier I am.

One thing you can be certain of, is if I am not playing MO, I will not be spending time on the MO forum pissing in other people's cheerios, as you and so many others seem to relish in doing with DFO.

-CC

Originally posted by ChinaCat 

One thing you can be certain of, is if I am not playing MO, I will not be spending time on the MO forum pissing in other people's cheerios, as you and so many others seem to relish in doing with DFO.

-CC

Oh yes, it's clearly not what you are doing right now... pot calling the kettle black, heh?

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by ChinaCat 

One thing you can be certain of, is if I am not playing MO, I will not be spending time on the MO forum pissing in other people's cheerios, as you and so many others seem to relish in doing with DFO.

-CC

 

Oh yes, it's clearly not what you are doing right now... pot calling the kettle black, heh?

Uh, no.    What I did was post on this thread how often "code" can have the opposite effect it was designed for.   I shared that my take-away from the YouTube videos and Official site info. seems like MO is not very developed.   I could be wrong, but wrong or right doesn't speak to how the game is, or will be.     I'll see what more people have to say when the NDA gets lifted and more info. becomes available.     This isn't "Pot calling kettle".    I hope for the best for MO, and that is the polar opposite of you crusading against DFO, a game you are totally unfamiliar with except your memories of beta.   Look at your signature here "I was a Darkfall beta tester, and that saved me from giving $50 to fund another MMORPG failure."     You are alone on the stove I'm afraid.

-CC

Darkfail 2.0.  Now with MOAR unwanted self importance, DX 1341234124 enabled graphics, and less carebears.