Originally posted by Gabby-air

The thing with free games is that they end up costing you more than what a sub based game would,

But studies show that a small percentage spend any money at all, so the above is false.

A regular free game wouldnt have any great support and would lack alot in content compared to a sub game and the community usually isnt all that great.

Please, show any research or statistics that back that assumption.

I would only reccomend free games to people that play 5 hours/week or people that can stand being way behind the spenders.

Or people that aren't obsessed with how much milk is in the next guy's glass.

Originally posted by Shard101

I hate them, they are unbalanced and to be competitive you need to spend alot more cash than you would in a P2P.

 

Sick of seeing them and hope this method dies.

Korea ,China and Japan need to learn how to make a MMO that doesn't revolve around a exp /hp potion.

If they made character customization content worth a damn people wouldn't need to spend 40$ in their Item Mall to make char look half way decent.

They have to add item malls because its the lazy way to add content into their bland worlds.

 

Only idiots continue to pay for these games through Item malls.

We in the west have seen NOTHING yet.  First, SOE opened exchange servers.  Now, some of their games are going item mall and future SoE will have have item mall of some form or another.  Turbine is introducing F2P and item mall to DDO this summer.  If that is successful, you will see item mall in LOTRO as well.  Two to three years from now, the majority of western MMORPGs will have item mall.  Ever been to a F2P WoW private server?  Blizzard even has item mall code in their game.  I believe that the days of the pure P2P games are nearly over as the F2P games in the east are proving king interms of revenue for their companies and for SoE. 

Yes and erm No.

Yes because you are guided into having to purchase from the item mall to continue playing (for gear and locked zones) and if pvp for that as players who have item mall gear have an easy time against players who dont.

No because you can play for free for so long (untill you get bored) and can also download for free too.

I myself still prefer and play the monthly subscriptional based games.

The general misconception that is often doen is, that you need to use the item mall, if you wan't to play the game. That's far from true, if you don't want to do PvP.

I've played Rappelz for a year, without spending a single cent in the item mall. It's absolutely no problem to do so, if you only play it for the PvE-part.

Atm I'm playing RoM, without spending a single cent in the item mall, and it's also absolutely no problem to do all of the PvE-content.

PvP however is something totally different in those item-mall based F2P-MMOs.

If I wan't to do PvPin RoM, then a full set of PvP-gear is easily exceeding the amount of money, that I'm paying for a full year subscription of EvE Online or WoW.

---

So in general I've no problem with F2P-MMOs and item-malls, aslong as I don't want to do PvP. For leveled PvP-MMOs, there's only one approach: P2P with a monthly subscription.

It's that easy.

Originally posted by Bastioni

Originally posted by Deathreat

Originally posted by Ozreth

Final Fantasy XIV will be leveless.

 

Sorry for going off topic, but where did you get his info at? You can PM me the response if you dont wanna post.

 

Oh, would like to know too. No levels would be cool.

Well, they've mentioned there won't be a normal "experience point system", and that character development will be, in part, through their use of weapons... which ones they use, etc. So... there may be "levels" of some sort, but not in the traditional sense necessarily. It might be more skill-based.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Shard101

I hate them, they are unbalanced and to be competitive you need to spend alot more cash than you would in a P2P.

 

Sick of seeing them and hope this method dies.

Korea ,China and Japan need to learn how to make a MMO that doesn't revolve around a exp /hp potion.

If they made character customization content worth a damn people wouldn't need to spend 40$ in their Item Mall to make char look half way decent.

They have to add item malls because its the lazy way to add content into their bland worlds.

 

Only idiots continue to pay for these games through Item malls.

 

There's such an amazing level of blind hatred for item malls - most of it based off complete misinformation - among the forumgoing subset of the MMO community. Heaven forbid you try one, have fun for 5 or 6 months and go on to the next one.... just like you would do with any other MMO,,,, but for free.

 

Actually, I prefer to play a MMO that I can enjoy for years without feeling like it's "time to move on to the next one". I think that's part of the failure of MMOs nowadays... They're turning into a "fast-food" entertainment model. I'm surprised to hear that people are playing most new ones for more than a month or two, to be honest.
 

The problems I've seen with most Item Mall MMOs is two-fold:
- Most provide little more than grinding xp on mobs. The mobs are even set up in convenient little "pools" that rapidly respawn to make grinding on them even easier. I look for some interesting quest content and it always comes back to killing more of what I would have been killing anyway... just for more exp. Archlord, Shaiya, Last Chaos, Rappelz, Perfect World... every one I've tried has been the same. So one part of why I don't like them is simply because they provide only a sliver of what a good, well-rounded MMORPG should, IMO, and build an entire business model around it.

- The way they all are free to play at the most basic level, but if you ever want to be truly competitive, you're going to *have* to pull out the CC and pay up to get those HP and MP pots, so you can spam them during fights. You'll have to get those xp potions so you can level up faster and keep up with the competition... Not to mention gear, etc. etc. This is especially so in PvP... which - not coincidentally, I'm sure - most of the F2P/Item Mall MMOs I've tried have in some form or another.
 

My first issue with the shallow content aside, I agree with the comment that they can be played without an Item Mall if you're only PvE'ing. But for PvP... go to one with a monthly sub where all gear is available in-game and not determined by the limit on someone's credit card (figuratively speaking).
 

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Gabby-air

The thing with free games is that they end up costing you more than what a sub based game would,

But studies show that a small percentage spend any money at all, so the above is false.

Link to these studies please?

A regular free game wouldnt have any great support and would lack alot in content compared to a sub game and the community usually isnt all that great.

Please, show any research or statistics that back that assumption.

Please show any research or statistics that prove it false.

I would only reccomend free games to people that play 5 hours/week or people that can stand being way behind the spenders.

Or people that aren't obsessed with how much milk is in the next guy's glass.Z

Oh come on... Are you being glib here, or naive?

The sense of "competition" and "being as good as, if not better than everyone else" is part of why MMOs are successful. That's a pretty well known concept. Many people are competitive by nature. They *hate* knowing someone else has something they don't or is a higher level than them.  I see and experience it all the time.

A very competitive friend of mine for *years* would go crazy at how I was "so much farther ahead than him" in FFXI (truthfully I was only a few levels and maybe one or 2 ranks ahead.. but it was enough to bother him), and he would actually bring his PC into work to try and keep up. An extreme case, perhaps.. but it's just one example.

Also, people love to be able to show off their great gear, or demonstrate how they're a better player. Another person I knew used to proudly show off all his gear and declare himself a "god" in any MMO he was playing... counting himself (even without anything to back it up) as one of the best players in the game. Every time he got a new rare piece of gear, he flaunted it... Again... a bit sad (never understood why some people derive so much "self-worth" in pixels), but that's just one example.

Perhaps that don't apply to you.. I know it doesn't apply to me. However, the sense of competition and being superior to the next guy is a very prevalent thing in many people, in many ways... Sports, hobbies, etc. etc.

An old friend of my mom was ridiculous about it... If my mom bought a new stereo, she had to go buy the same brand, but the next model up.. and then gloat how "hers was better", because it had some extra gadgets that she'd never use anyway.

How many people bought PS2s or PS3s or Wii's.. not because they wanted them, but because they were "the thing to have" and they wanted to gloat to their friends who couldn't get one. I know of a few examples of that.

The list goes on... I'm sure you know several examples yourself, as would anyone here.

To knock it like it's some "fringe" thing for a player to be concerned with how well those around them are doing is, again, either disingenuous, or naive.

 

Not saying you're incorrect in the first two statements (because I don't have proof to say otherwise)... However, I always kinda chuckle when people cite "studies" and "statistics" to prove someone else wrong without actually providing links to those studies and statistics themselves.

 

To Lynx, well "WSIMike" pretty much summed up what i was gonna say, gamers are usually competitive- they want to be the best. And about the statistics part well link to resource(ironic you talk about statistics without a resource then ask me for mine o.O}?and about free games not having good support, ive tried every single worth mentioning free game and my experience wasnt great and again yes some of the companies were really good but not all.

I don't see how I could be tired of them since I never play them.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Shard101

I hate them, they are unbalanced and to be competitive you need to spend alot more cash than you would in a P2P.

 

Sick of seeing them and hope this method dies.

Korea ,China and Japan need to learn how to make a MMO that doesn't revolve around a exp /hp potion.

If they made character customization content worth a damn people wouldn't need to spend 40$ in their Item Mall to make char look half way decent.

They have to add item malls because its the lazy way to add content into their bland worlds.

 

Only idiots continue to pay for these games through Item malls.

 

There's such an amazing level of blind hatred for item malls - most of it based off complete misinformation - among the forumgoing subset of the MMO community. Heaven forbid you try one, have fun for 5 or 6 months and go on to the next one.... just like you would do with any other MMO,,,, but for free.

 

Perhaps some people are actually informed and still dislike item malls.

It seems your entire argument for them is all the people that dislike item malls just dont' understand how great they are.

If 70% of people on this forum don't like them, perhpaps you should consider that it's possible some of those people actually understand how item malls work, and still don't like them?

Clearly if we don’t agree with you about RMT games (lets call a horse a horse not F2P), it must be because we don’t understand them. I played ‘Perfect World’, I have looked into the item shops of about 5 other top rated RMT games and I still think RMT is appalling.

You will find in life that the reason people disagree with you is not always a lack of understanding on their part. <rolls eyes>

Surely it can only be judged on a game by game basis?

I mean, I wouldn't compare Perfect Worlds item shop to Free Realms item shop, as the games are completely different.

Seems to me that the real complaint isn't the item shop or the nature of micro transaction purchases, but that the shops in general unbalance the game.

If we look at all the top free to play MMOs they are heavily skewed towards PvP, if you took PvP out of the equation, then does it matter what is sold in the shop? Assuming you can do all the content without the shop items, who cares if John Doe over there buys something from the shop? It doesn't directly impact on your enjoyment or ability to do the PvE content.

Now, with PvP this is obviously totally different, but we all know that in PvP players will do anything to win, that competitive nature is the sole reason items are in the shop, they know people will buy them to win. So the flaw is humanity not the game, it is cheap and dirty tactic to make money and it works exceptionally well, but if there wasn't so much potential to make money from it then they wouldn't do it.

RMT, item shops, whatever, is all here to stay, the market is there for it. We can merely hope that game designers can find a more profitable solution than cheap PvP knock-offs and appealing to the lowest common denominator in every free to play MMO.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Bastioni

Originally posted by Deathreat

Originally posted by Ozreth

Final Fantasy XIV will be leveless.

 

Sorry for going off topic, but where did you get his info at? You can PM me the response if you dont wanna post.

 

Oh, would like to know too. No levels would be cool.

Well, they've mentioned there won't be a normal "experience point system", and that character development will be, in part, through their use of weapons... which ones they use, etc. So... there may be "levels" of some sort, but not in the traditional sense necessarily. It might be more skill-based.

 

I wonder if it's anything like Final Fantasy Tactics.  A system where players equip weapons for abilities, master abilities, equip new weapon, repeat.  Unlocking new jobs would require the player to have a certain amount of job specific abilities mastered.  I wouldn't doubt it, since it's been done in other FF games.

On topic:  I don't have anything against item malls that only offer cosmetic items, like clothing.  Cash shops are no good if they sell exp potions, equips, areas, resets, etc.  Any game that has to sell EXP potions to be remotely interesting simply isn't worth playing.