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6/17/09 2:19:09 PM#81
Originally posted by DeViLzzz2008
Don't think anyone is advocating endangering others while intoxicated. This is (and should be) illegal with ALL mind altering substances. On a side note, I'd say in general a person suffering from acute alcohol intoxication is a lot more impaired than a person suffering from acute cannabis intoxication. More aggressive, more irrational, AND suffering from more severe impairment of fine motor skills. On the other hand, the stoned guy probably IS more likely to eat all of your pop-tarts... so you have to take that into consideration. |
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Arbadacarba
 Novice Member
Joined: 7/30/07
All men are mortal. Socrates is mortal. Therefore, all men are Socrates. |
6/17/09 2:41:21 PM#82
Originally posted by DeViLzzz2008
You've seen what marijuana can do to a person? I think you are conditioned to think you know what marijuana does to people.
Super High Me documents Benson not consuming marijuana for 30 days and then smoking and otherwise consuming cannabis every day for 30 days in a row. To make sure alcohol wouldn't affect the results, he didn't drink for the two months he filmed the documentary. Benson took various tests to gauge his physical and mental health both after 30 days of not using pot and after doing so for 30 days straight. Benson's physician concluded that the effects on Benson's health from his use of cannabis were generally inconsequential. The greatest changes noted were in his weight (Benson gained eight pounds during his "high" month). His sperm count actually increased, contrary to the expectations of medical studies. In an ESP test, it's arguable whether his results were better or worse while high: His "sober" score was 1 correct guess out of 25, which is notably unusual. (His score while high was 7/25.) His overall score on an SAT test increased.
Sober High
The lobbyist have brain washed you into criminalizing a recreational, religious, spiritual, and medicinal substance (not to mention all the other applications) in favor of the conglomerates that would suffer finacial loses if said substance were legal. Humans' consumption of cannabis pre-dates history and most religions. Even US presidents grew and harvested marijuana before it was criminalized. "Make the most you can of the Indian hemp seed. Sow it everywhere."- George Washington
And about not being able to participate in everyday life while stoned: that is untrue. I'm always stoned (even now) and I function in society and I'm sure many people, whether you know it or not, do the same.
Let me reiterate a segment from the social aspect of my compiled compisition in my post above with an added link for reinforcement to it's arguement: "Unfortunately, every society in the history of mankind has had some form of mind-altering, sometimes addictive substances to use, to misuse, abuse or get addicted to, even bunnies. Get used to it. They're here to stay. So let's try to reduce those harms, and right now we couldn't do it worse if we tried."
"If all fossil fuels and their derivatives, as well as trees for paper and construction were banned in order to save the planet, reverse the greenhouse effect and stop deforestation; then there is only one known annually renewable natural resource that is capable of providing the overall majority of the world's paper and textiles; meet all of the world's transportation, industrial and home energy needs, while simultaneously reducing pollution, rebuilding the soil, and cleaning the atmosphere all at the same time... and that substance is - the same one that did it all before -- Cannabis Hemp... Marijuana!" - From the back cover of Jack Herer's The Emperor Wears No Clothes. |
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clwoods
 Novice Member
Joined: 10/20/08
People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent. |
6/17/09 2:55:42 PM#83
Originally posted by Enkindu
Don't think anyone is advocating endangering others while intoxicated. This is (and should be) illegal with ALL mind altering substances. On a side note, I'd say in general a person suffering from acute alcohol intoxication is a lot more impaired than a person suffering from acute cannabis intoxication. More aggressive, more irrational, AND suffering from more severe impairment of fine motor skills. On the other hand, the stoned guy probably IS more likely to eat all of your pop-tarts... so you have to take that into consideration. I don't mess with pop-tarts or hot pockets. Cool Ranch Doritos are another story...Katie bar the door if you have those lying around, I'd bomb a small village for Doritos. |
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6/17/09 2:56:59 PM#84
Originally posted by Arbadacarba
The undisputed truth. Great post.
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6/17/09 7:50:52 PM#85
Legalize it, tax it, cut spending, and use the revenue to pay down the deficit.
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tvalentine
 Advanced Member
Joined: 4/01/06
“The things you own end up owning you.” -Tyler Durden |
6/17/09 8:17:10 PM#86
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
QFT, i wonder if it will ever happen in our life time
Playing: EVE Online |
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6/17/09 8:17:14 PM#87
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Word. |
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I used to think no, but three huge factors might change that. 1) Money rules everything. Right now, the United States needs money. States, towns and cities need money. When people need money they will do things they thought they'd never consider before. This is the biggest factor imo. 2) States approving medical marijuana. When enough states legalize the medical application of it, everyone will know SOMEONE who uses marijuana then, even more than now. They will realize that these people aren't "druggies" or criminals.. they are their neighbors, friends, and relatives. Once that stigma comes off, the 50s mindset people die, and the next generation (who are 10 now) grow up, it will be normal. 3) The immediate adverse impact it will have on criminals/drug lords. When you remove marijuana as the biggest moneymaker dealers have, they will take a huge hit. Most people in jail right now for drugs are in for marijuana. Take this away, dealers make less and there is less crime committed automatically. |
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grimweeper
 Novice Member
Joined: 4/06/04
Never take life seriously you cant get out of it alive. |
6/17/09 11:29:15 PM#89
Originally posted by zchmrkenhoff Ok ill be completely honest before i start. i read everything before this post and nothing after so dont flame me if what im saying has already been said.
Alcohol cannot be abused? are you fucking kidding me? so im guessing AAA is just a club everyday drinkers like to attend to meet people like them? get real and passed the ignorance, everything from porn to food can be abused. What about the engineer or doctor that smokes while off work? let me guess you think its impossible, well let me tell you alittle secret, theres many professionals using it right now you would never be able to tell though. Why? because you cant get passed the stereotype of all the lazy bastards living with their parents, the truth is you know someone that smokes pot their just not open with it because of the implications it could have with all the other aspects of your life, if someone knew you smoked pot you would loose your job and everything just like the saying goes "Ive never had a problem with drugs, Ive only had problems with the police". Ivy league schools have the highest drug problem... just alittle bit of useless knowledge...
As for drugs mutating society into scum and not accomplishing anything, well then i guess you can just stop listening to every type of music you own because it was most likely created by junkies. Oh and did you know the declaration of independence was written on hemp paper? or that George Washington had a hemp/marijuana plantaion? Please stop looking at all the fuckups around you and start questioning what you are taught. And now for the spiritually closer to earth part ... until you try them dont say anything because you clearly dont know. They can be life changing for the better or for the worse it all depends on the person. Placing us in a fantasy is just plain stupid, people know more about what their doing on marijuana then they do while drunk and makes you think alot harder about various subjects. Human beings with genuine creativity dont need drugs? Who are you to judge who has true creativity, maybe it is unlocked by a mind altering substance... also there are many reasons for trying drugs, more than you can imagine and basing all your arguments on preconcieved ideas that were taught to you in DARE does not work on the internet where people can actually think for themselves. Ill let you in on a little secret too, the people you think are high might just be morons that are completely sober or people that were dumb to begin with and drugs acdelerated their declining in life.
Here is where i get personal though. Im sick and tired of everyone telling me im a piece of shit and dont help society because i do drugs. I was inducted into the national honor society, volunteered countless hours to tutoring and helping the community, and am going to a fairly good college with a good reputation. Former teachers and employers have told me i have a great work ethic and am on my way to success along with having a great resume. The valedictorian of my class smoked massive weed. But why is it that if anyone found out i smoke pot my life would be ruined? This is complete bullshit, why can you go home and get wasted every night but i cant go home and smoke a joint? Marijuana prohibition is based on ignorance and propoganda, its starting to get rediculous.   |
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6/18/09 5:50:54 AM#90
I have read as much of this thread as I could to get the jest of the common arguments. There were too many so I skipped. Here are my thoughts... Federal medical acceptance is a must IMO. I have a friend. His whole life he played by the rules and did the high on life thing. He earned a BS while working full time. He didn't do drugs except for alcohol his whole life (alcohol is not an indepenent thing to drugs, it is a drug, just a legal drug). He was so successful with his positive attitude on life he had more friends than you can imagine. I of course am one. When he drank he was always responsible and did not drive. He also was a happy drunk. He never got angry or became the ugly drunk. Many times he would not drink and be the designated driver. He at the time had perspective. If I used past tense it is not because he is dead. I mention past tense for the way he was and what was sadly and wrongly taken from him. Back in 2006 he and some friends had fun on a weekend night. I was not there; I got to hear about the aftermath. He was the designated driver that night. His friends were all legally drunk. He was doing his job and keeping them safe. All were happy. He was driving his friend's car. The rule was the DD doesn't have to clean vomit out of his own car so one of the drinkers gives up his to the DD to drive. He was driving them home. He was obeying traffic laws especially the one that if the light is green you proceed. He was in flowing traffic going through the green light. As he did so a car doing 25MPH over the speed limit ran her red light and t-boned their car. The impact happened right where my friend was sitting. The driver's position. The whole ambulance thing happened. The cops came. The cops determined everything my friend said happened...happened. They drew his blood as part of the investigation; 0.00 BAC. The person that hit him was a woman that had warrents for drugs and missed court dates. They blood tested her; she was positive for...drum roll...COCAINE. She was whacked out of her mind on cocaine and alcohol. She also didn't have a pot to piss in and was sent to jail on her warrents. She was driving without insurance. The woman and my friend's passengers all had walk away injuries; meaning if it happened on a deserted road with no phone they could have walked to get help. I think the worst injury they had was a broken arm. My friend the driver...his mid back was nearly sheared by the lateral impact he received. He was doing the right thing and he was the worst hurt. He tried to sue the woman. There was nothing to sue. Before anyone says "sue happy" read on. He had emergency surgery. He was released. He was not right at all and at the time of release he was told he would need more from a specialist. I ran into him at work and it was obvious there was something wrong. He was on prescribed pain meds by then but they didn't help. He told me his story. He was placed on light duty at work. About two weeks later he was in the hospital for the second corrective surgery. After that he was placed in a detatched outpatient clinic to recover. They replaced a vertebre with synthetic, placed four pins and fused part of his back. I went to visit him during most of it when I could. We laughed, played video games, and I even brought him some special videos for him to watch. I got to meet more of his family that visited at the same time I did. After he was released he was placed into observational and more handicapped friendly housing. I helped him with his things and getting him setup there. In the end when he was settled he told me something. He told me of all his friends he had I was the only one that came to visit him in the hospital; not even the ones he was driving that night. Today three years later his condition has only deteriorated. He walks with a cane and often uses a wheel chair. He can move his legs but can't tell where they are in three dimensional space without looking at them. Legally he can drive, but all the prescription drugs he takes for pain precludes him from doing so. He was let go from his job after he was about to enter the executive training program with his BS degree. He almost completely relies on others for most of his daily life. Because of the pain he can only stand for 5~10 minutes. He can only sit up for 30~45 minutes. Otherwise he is laying down flat. He sleeps 16 hours a day. He went from a robust 210lbs to about 160. All physical activity is limited especially with the ladies. Because he can't do anything he started developing bloodclots in his legs and has suffered a stroke. They caught it in time and it was minor. But the doctors told him it may get worse. He has grown dependent on all the prescription pain meds. His tolerance continues to grow to them. The stroke happened in early March 09. He was getting desperate. There are problems with his health care insurance and they are dragging their feet on another surgery. He talked to his doctor. His doctor said he could not prescribe any higher of his existing pain meds. There was no other legal proceedure at that time they could do. My friend had done his own research and asked about...maryjane. The doctor said he could not prescribe it because he lives in Arizona. My friend found it and tried it. It was cheaper than alcohol relative to length of effect. Alcohol he can't drink because of interaction with prescribed meds. It reduced his pain a lot. He instantly became more mobile. He can now actually eat more. He sleeps less and is more active. He is also less depressed about his condition. Not because of the drug, but because he can do more in his life and do it longer. He doesn't have to spend as much of his time staring at the ceiling or trying to sleep to not stare at it. Where he lived in Arizona USA he could not live with his family and get what was helping him legally. He made a choice. He moved to California in part because it could be prescribed. He now like others only has to worry about the Federal laws. Something I'm told local police in California are not as active in enforcing there when a doctor prescribes. He is still taking a chance though. I miss being able to see my friend. I anticipate there may be those here that may think I am emotionally comprimised by my experience. I would agree except... In the 1980s before med maryjane was in any state as a prescription I saw it amongst my classmates. What is on the college campus in my town, I could find it if I want it and it is not med MJ. It is the illegal import stuff. MJ is the easiest illegal drug for a person to make; easier than alcohol...easier than meth. You plant a seed and give it no more care than a house plant. People grow it on farms and in hydroponics even in the USA. It grows year round because it is a weed, not a seasonal plant. You do not have to worry about botched synthesis like alcohol or meth that could overdose, poison, or kill a human being. The people that use it recreationally do it ANYWAYS regardless of the law. They grow it ANYWAYS regardless of law. They did so long before any state legalized it for medical ANYWAYS. The argument that med MJ will harm others because it makes it more available is flawed because the others that want it for recreational use are doing it ANYWAYS. Nothing we can do will stop them if they want it. Stopping those that have a real MED use for it for the sake of those that are doing it ANYWAYS is useless to that goal. Why?...because they are doing it ANYWAYS. They (whomever they are) will always do it ANYWAYS. It has been illegal for a long time; longer than I have been alive and it was done ANYWAYS. There are people in this world be it from cancer, people like my friend, AIDS, and a bunch of other medical conditions that live their lives in misery. Misery they didn't seek, but found them ANYWAYS. Many of them don't have much time left on earth. If it was your son, your brother, your wife, or your mother can you honestly say you would deny them something that could help them cope and help them to live the best life they can before they die. Would you let them live a life in pain or misery to spare recreational users from what could help your loved one when the recreational user now does it ANYWAYS. Who are you really helping. What will your opinion be if you ever have to go through chemo or sleep 16 hours a day because of pain? For the record I will say I have never done an illegal drug. I have never tried MJ and have no recreational desire to. I do want it available not only for those that can benift from it it now. I want it available for my benifit medically if the day ever comes I have cancer or anything else it's benifits exceeds is risks medically. Even just to make life managable from pain. For the record my friends scenario above was not real. It was given as an example how Med MJ is not cut simple. The main point is that those that use recreationally use it ANYWAYS. Banning med use for rec user's sake IMO is usless because it was always the most available drug. Many it could help are being asked to suffer for the ANYWAYS. This link is to a "drug war" documentary on youtube. I ask any who say "you admit your scenario is fake therefore your opinion has no merit" to watch it. In the video they talk about many things. If for the recreational arguments you want to ignore them I say cool. But there is two medical MJ stories in it related to cancer. One is about a child. The other is an adult that receives MJ from the USA Federal GOV for free and will do so for the rest of his life. It is broken up into four parts. Please watch them all to find the med stories as well as the ANYWAYS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvqLZTuHRo8 I could write more. I could write about the bad I've seen with others. My brother was one. He died when he was 38 years old. He couldn't even remember where he lived at the time. He did use MJ. That wasn't the drug that hurt him. It was Meth. MJ wasn't the gateway drug for him. It was alcohol. I understand the anti-drug arguments and see the merit in them; even if I may disagree I see the merit. But like anti-biotics, vaccinations, or any other currently legal prescribed drug MJ has a benifit that outways the risks for some. The fact some may use it for other purposes doesn't change this. Especially when they do it ANYWAYS. "Suddenly, thousands of Trekies whose heads are full of facts of things like the stardate when the Cardassians farted on Deep Space nine are irrlelevant." - hardcoremoviecritic |
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6/18/09 10:56:41 PM#91
Most people don't even know why Drugs were banned in the first place. One reason was taxes, but there is an obvious fix to that, legalize the farming and production and tax it... The Main reason was people becoming hooked in the opium dens and becoming lethargic and obliterating all personal ambition, this in turn kills the economy. No ambition = More unemployment (by choice) = Less income tax coming in = terrible economy. Marijuana obviously wouldn't be as detrimental but would in essence do the samething. It goes back to the Chinese Opium Dens in California and the first drug ban. I forgot the particular President involved, but he took advice from someone who told him that if the US wanted to be a true superpower they needed to ban drugs. Might have been a Pre-WWI president, Nixon, or LBJ i forget. |
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6/19/09 9:51:33 AM#92
Two Points: 1. While I am not thoroughly versed on the particulars, one of the major reasons cannabis was made illegal was due to pressure from lobby groups heavily invested in cotton. This was in the early part of last century, and in fact cannabis was legal for a while while alcohol was not. Hemp growers were able to demonstrate that they could make some high quality cloth, and the cotton group sought out the marijuana connection as a selling point to the politicians to lobby for it to be made illegal. Never mind that this ignored the fact that that type of hemp plant has less than 1% THC in it, and it would require smoking pounds of the stuff to catch a buzz. 2. I recently saw a commercial done by the government that basically said "if you are buying drugs, you are supporting organized crime". News flash: make it legal, and most will happily buy it at a licensed store rather than from Bob the dealer. Wanna wipe out the deficit? Think of the potential taxes. |
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6/19/09 10:25:54 AM#93
I hope it stay illegal so I can continue buying it for 20$ for 3g. Meh even if it become legal ill still buy it on the black market. |
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6/19/09 1:06:54 PM#94
Originally posted by LeKinK
And hopefully get arrested for it.
I'd turn you in on my way to buy my own weed from a licensed dealer. |
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6/19/09 1:20:28 PM#95
Originally posted by Sabiancym
And hopefully get arrested for it.
I'd turn you in on my way to buy my own weed from a licensed dealer.
Lol, that's low. If the black market is cheaper, that means the government is doing it wrong. If so, why support a crap system? But of course, you want the government to hold your hand even if it crushes it along the way. Here's to hoping you get what happens to people that rat others out :) |
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6/19/09 1:45:29 PM#96
Originally posted by Sabiancym
And hopefully get arrested for it.
I'd turn you in on my way to buy my own weed from a licensed dealer.
And I would not mind at all Jery, weed is not a priority for the police over here anyway. The worst they will do is take it from my hand and smoke it for themselves. |
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So you'd rather purchase illegal marijuana which you know the profits go to drug dealers, cartels and possibly terrorists who do nothing to help you while causing hundreds of thousands of citizens smoking it to recieve jail time and records than: - buy it legally from the state/federal governments who would then use the money to help pay down the national debt, reduce other crime and make us stronger on terrorism and coincidentally, help you?
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6/19/09 2:54:05 PM#98
Originally posted by popinjay
LOL All the weed smoked here come from here, not some imaginary cartel on the other side of the planet. Ever heard theses word: "Québec gold"? It refer to the hugemongus amount of weed here and they are not from any criminal organisation anymore, its from any regular joe who want a little side line. Almost all of them are non violent and by that I mean you never hear anyone being beaten up by a "pot" organisation. The big criminal deal with coke, not pot. edit: And like I said above no one will get in trouble for 20$ of pot. This is the world I live in, I am not American |
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6/19/09 3:13:52 PM#99
Originally posted by LeKinK
You are drastically underestimating the manufacturing capabilities of US businesses. There is no reason at all why weed won't be cheaper than tobacco. In fact is is safe to say it could be waaaaay cheaper, as weed doesn't require additives or chemicals when preparing it for sale. If a large conglomerate like Phillip Morris got involved with manufacturing joints or other means for smoking, the price will be dirt cheap, and only idiots would stay int he black market.
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6/19/09 3:17:43 PM#100
Originally posted by Dis_Ordur
You are drastically underestimating the manufacturing capabilities of US businesses. There is no reason at all why weed won't be cheaper than tobacco. In fact is is safe to say it could be waaaaay cheaper, as weed doesn't require additives or chemicals when preparing it for sale. If a large conglomerate like Phillip Morris got involved with manufacturing joints or other means for smoking, the price will be dirt cheap, and only idiots would stay int he black market.
Yes, if it's cheaper to get it legaly all is fine. But right now I get it raw, not transformed in joint so I'll wait and see. |
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