Originally posted by Xasapis

I hope you realise that your whole argument collapsed when you mentioned "level grind". Levelling is also a big part of the game, the path is equally important to the level cap, if not more so. Unfortunately, some of us have been wired in such a way that we throw our free time at tedious levelling games and our excuse is that "the cap is where the real game is".

Yep, what I'm getting is that they are making the journey just as important the end. level 1-8 should be just as fun as level 50-60, or the end as an example. Playing an MMO should not be work, or a grind.

An entire MMO filled with tales like www.swtor.com/info/holonet/timeline/mandalorian-blockade-broken, I can't wait personally.

Bioware are already doing a great job at laying down the foundations for the story in TOR. Even the web comic they do is entertaining.

Originally posted by Kordac

An entire MMO filled with tales like www.swtor.com/info/holonet/timeline/mandalorian-blockade-broken, I can't wait personally.

Bioware are already doing a great job at laying down the foundations for the story in TOR. Even the web comic they do is entertaining.

Hey, I recognise that gravel voice! .. it's my favourite voiceover dude Lance Henriksen!

Now if they can bring in some more people from Mass Effect like Seth Green, Martina Sirtis, Jennifer Hale and Steve Barr .. that "fully voiced storyline" will be even more awesome!

 Oh hi. It's me, that guy who actually pays attention and appreciates the story in games. Screw you!

it is clear that no one cares about a story in a game

look at aoc it went with the whole we are putting storyline bs into the game and oh yeah it's going to be shutdown soon people dont want story they want sandbox with alpha classes

story is just something for rpers and there are way too few rpers now so they should make tor a pre-cu like game with a ton of pvp and unlockable classes

Originally posted by stillkillin

it is clear that no one cares about a story in a game

look at aoc it went with the whole we are putting storyline bs into the game and oh yeah it's going to be shutdown soon people dont want story they want sandbox with alpha classes

story is just something for rpers and there are way too few rpers now so they should make tor a pre-cu like game with a ton of pvp and unlockable classes

Last I checked, this isn't the only MMO coming out in the near future and it's the only one to focus on story and casual gameplay.  So why exactly are you so hell bent on dissing this one when there are others that meet your needs and have nice shiny new bulletin boards for you to lurk in.  You freaks act like it's the end of the genre if even one game comes out that doesn't fit your rose tinted view of old school MMO paradigms. 

Those of you who don't like the premise of this game, fine, grow up and move on.  Your opinions are not constructive and they will certainly not change the direction this game has already been set to.

Originally posted by Vrazule

Originally posted by stillkillin

it is clear that no one cares about a story in a game

look at aoc it went with the whole we are putting storyline bs into the game and oh yeah it's going to be shutdown soon people dont want story they want sandbox with alpha classes

story is just something for rpers and there are way too few rpers now so they should make tor a pre-cu like game with a ton of pvp and unlockable classes

 

Last I checked, this isn't the only MMO coming out in the near future and it's the only one to focus on story and casual gameplay.  So why exactly are you so hell bent on dissing this one when there are others that meet your needs and have nice shiny new bulletin boards for you to lurk in.  You freaks act like it's the end of the genre if even one game comes out that doesn't fit your rose tinted view of old school MMO paradigms. 

Those of you who don't like the premise of this game, fine, grow up and move on.  Your opinions are not constructive and they will certainly not change the direction this game has already been set to.

No no, don't you see? BioWare -OWES- him and his 250k friends (who in a singularily heroic campaign destroyed SOE utterly and completely) a pre-cu Star Wars game. Don't you see the logic in that? 

 Well, heck, if I was a crafty design officer at Bioware I would easily create a server for people like the OP. Just remove all dialouge and options and plop the player down in the game world. They can run around pvp each other, then bop to various areas with mobs waiting for players to level up with and drop loot.

North American server name: SAMEASOTHER MMOS

EU Server Name: DARKFALL

Problem Solved

Obvious troll is obvious.

But on a slightly different note, I feel that MMO devs need to focus on more important things, like game play, before they try and improve things like the storyline. If I'm just grinding my way to a serious lack of end-game content, I'm going to be very, very upset.

Originally posted by stillkillin

it is clear that no one cares about a story in a game

look at aoc it went with the whole we are putting storyline bs into the game and oh yeah it's going to be shutdown soon people dont want story they want sandbox with alpha classes

story is just something for rpers and there are way too few rpers now so they should make tor a pre-cu like game with a ton of pvp and unlockable classes

I think that's naive. There are multiple reasons AoC's high-water mark was much lower than expected: horrible initial performance, lack of content from the mid-game all the way to the endgame, no coliseum, nonexistent class balance, infrequent updates, and the list goes on and on, usually with different emphasis on different points based on personal preference. Hell, the game's setting, nudity, and ultra violence cost them 20% of their potential playerbase (women) before the thing even hit beta. It's currently bleeding players because it failed everyone in every area, however, not just because the first 20 levels were semi-instanced.

On the subject of AoC and stories, I bought it because of Tortage (I liked most of what I saw there in the free trial), and canceled when the rest of the game proved to be almost nothing like it. That's not because I'm a roleplayer- I haven't roleplayed in about 15 years. It's because I'm a journey player; I make a character, grow that character, do everything I can find to do with that character (craft, explore, raise money, buy a house, decorate that house, quest, et cetera) until the level cap tells me I've reached a hard cap on my potential, then I reroll or move on. Story isn't just for roleplayers anymore than pvp is just for gankers or raids are just for leetfreaks.

For that matter, I don't think this game is just going to be  for the MMO crowd, either. Much like Blizzard, BioWare has a built-in fanbase to draw from. Any fan of PC or console rpgs is almost going to be obligated to try the game simply because nobody has integrated things like morals, ethics and consequences into gameplay quite like BioWare has. They're renowned not only for their stories, but for the freedom of choice they allow the protagonist to have. Quests and stories in MMOs are disliked and disregarded because they're a paint-by-numbers, makes-no-difference affair; that's not what BioWare does, which is why it just might work for them.

Originally posted by neosapience

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

But on a slightly different note, I feel that MMO devs need to focus on more important things, like game play, before they try and improve things like the storyline. If I'm just grinding my way to a serious lack of end-game content, I'm going to be very, very upset.

While I am very disappointed that they have indicated ther will be raiding in game.  I can only hope it will not be the focus of end game.  I'd rather see anything else get a greater focus, whether it be PvP or more questing or faction grinding or even just regular dungeons.  The last thing I want to see is raiders getting the only loot progression at end game.

I love a good story in a game. And it's even better if I get to go through a good storyline with my best friends. What happens when we finish the story? Well if there are interesting end-game things to do like Achievements or a good PVP system, then we will continue to play the game doing that until more story comes out. If not, well we will just play another game until the stroyline is pushed further.

To me, a game is like a huge interactive book where I get to be the hero, if the story sucks, I don't finish the book/game.

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

I happen to give a crap about story...

 The rest of your post was just a generic rant, they announced... all the features found in the usual mmo, in addition to a great story and a world that can be influenced by your characters decisions.

 Nothing about what they are doing is cookie cutter, they absolutely dominated at e3. It sounds like you wanted to rant for the sake of ranting.

Not to mention the fact that BioWare dominated at E3 this year based on a three-minute cinematic.

As to the statement posited in the thread's subject, I do happen to "give a crap about story."  I found the 'story' in WAR to be lacking (probably in favor of building their RvR system, which really didn't impress me all that much), I find the story in WoW to be lacking (though the mindless slaughter of NPCs is a great stress reliever :) ), and don't get me started on the myriad other games out there that have put the "I WIN" button ahead of compelling story and gameplay.

I still play KOTOR from time to time, and I have played that game through at least a half dozen times.  BioWare has built a rather solid reputation on their storytelling.  Just because a game has a good story, that doesn't automatically mean that the focus on telling a story that players will relate to comes at the expense of other aspects of gameplay.  Give them a chance or - and here's a novel concept - wait to actually play the game before ranting on histrionically about it. 

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

I agree 100%!!!    The people that disagree are too wrapped up in themselves to know what makes a game good.

Originally posted by ishist

I happen to like classes

 

True Story.

Originally posted by MarL

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

 

I agree 100%!!!    The people that disagree are too wrapped up in themselves to know what makes a game good.

And the people that agree are too wrapped up in themselves to think BioWare actually cares what you think makes a good game.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by Vrazule

Originally posted by stillkillin

it is clear that no one cares about a story in a game

look at aoc it went with the whole we are putting storyline bs into the game and oh yeah it's going to be shutdown soon people dont want story they want sandbox with alpha classes

story is just something for rpers and there are way too few rpers now so they should make tor a pre-cu like game with a ton of pvp and unlockable classes

 

Last I checked, this isn't the only MMO coming out in the near future and it's the only one to focus on story and casual gameplay.  So why exactly are you so hell bent on dissing this one when there are others that meet your needs and have nice shiny new bulletin boards for you to lurk in.  You freaks act like it's the end of the genre if even one game comes out that doesn't fit your rose tinted view of old school MMO paradigms. 

Those of you who don't like the premise of this game, fine, grow up and move on.  Your opinions are not constructive and they will certainly not change the direction this game has already been set to.

 

No no, don't you see? BioWare -OWES- him and his 250k friends (who in a singularily heroic campaign destroyed SOE utterly and completely) a pre-cu Star Wars game. Don't you see the logic in that? 

Of course they don't, because this game is STAR WARS.Therefore since their beloved holy grail was put out of its misery, every Star Wars themed MMO should try and emulate the biggest fail in the history of MMOs because well, IT WAS AWESOME and the hundreds of thousands who didn't like it and left just didn't understand its uberness. How can you not want 32 broken professions that are useless against the alpha class? How can you not want to grind hundreds of hours for that glow stick? Didn't you know? Games should be like a second job, not entertaining.. And story? We don't need no dang story. The greatest story ever told was of the hundreds of geeks who had no life and sat in front of their monitors grinding jedi just so they could pawn everyone. ;)

Originally posted by Jenuviel

I think one of the reasons story has seemed less important in MMOs is because you feel like you're just walking in the footsteps of the people who did that quest before you, the same quest hundreds of people behind you are going to do. When you're playing a single-player game, your "solo-ness" gives you enough suspension of disbelief (as far as the questing assembly line goes) to allow the illusion that you're the hero (or villain) to take root.

 

We'll have to wait and see if BioWare is able to achieve this same thing when our characters are surrounded by dozens of other players waiting to do the same quests we are, some of them talking sports, some doing /Wookie_Dance_7 in a Jawa's face. The interviews seem to at least make it clear that they're aware of the problems players tend to cause for one another when it comes to questing and immersion, but we won't really know if their solutions will work or not until we have a chance to play the game. Like most things, I suspect it'll largely come down to personal preference in the end.

I'm sure there are others in this thread, but I just want to thank you for a reasonable response to the topic and issues raised. I get so sick of seeing people attacked for hating/loving something about MMO's.

Seriously guys, he was ranting because Bioware has been promoting "the story" so much he's sick of it...why? because he doesn't care about the story as much as other aspects of MMORPG's. There are a lot of people that would agree with him and a lot that will disagree. Discuss the topic if you will, but please leave out the "stfu, gtfo, don't buy it," and etc...unless you are getting paid to respond that way by Bioware--then I can understand.

As for me, I'll take a wait and see approach. I'd like for the story to worthy of praise, but my only experience with MMO's was SWG. Honestly I hardly ever read the text in game--quests, or missions, were just a means to an end--if you want this special item or whatever, you did a certain mission from some  npc or something...I was more interested in interacting with other players or gaining xp. The only story I would read is when they added something to the game and it was in the notes or something. So I'm rather curious if Bioware will be able to make the story matter when MMO's are mostly about interaction with other players to me.

Originally posted by ScoutMastr

 I'm sure there are others in this thread, but I just want to thank you for a reasonable response to the topic and issues raised. I get so sick of seeing people attacked for hating/loving something about MMO's.

Seriously guys, he was ranting because Bioware has been promoting "the story" so much he's sick of it...why? because he doesn't care about the story as much as other aspects of MMORPG's. There are a lot of people that would agree with him and a lot that will disagree. Discuss the topic if you will, but please leave out the "stfu, gtfo, don't buy it," and etc...

Speaking only for myself, if the OP had chosen to pursue a path of "I would like to know more about the other aspects of this game besides the story; let's have a reasonable discussion about that," I would have been happy to have such a discussion.  However, the OP came across in a manner which indicates that his preference is the only one that matters.

Certainly, there will be those who agree with the OP and those who disagree.  Personally, I place a high value on "the story," which is why I enjoy playing LoTRO.  I do not expect that everyone will place the same value on various aspects of gameplay that I do (For instance, I could give a rip about PvP - my interests lie primarily in graphics quality, actual gameplay mechanics, the story, and the crafting), but I am very much inclined to tell someone to eff off when they present themselves in a manner that indicates that they have absolutely no respect for the idea that everyone places different value on different aspects of the game.

I actually hope that the OP and others who do not place the same value on the story that I do will at least give the game a try.  It's quite possible that they - and I - will not like the game when it is released.  But the fact is that right now, we really do not have enough information about this game to start "ranting" about anything.  The game is still in development and will be for some time.  In my admittedly limited experience with MMOGs (I have only been playing MMOs for about 5 or 6 years.  Compared to many folks who post here on this site, that's not very much at all.), the best way to express one's concerns while a game is still in development (or even after it launches, to be honest) is to become a member of that game's community and calmly and rationally explain your position on that game's community forums.

While the saying goes "you can get more with a kind word and a two by four than you can with just a kind word," sometimes the two by four really is not necessary. ;)

EDITED: Bloody laptop keyboards.

Originally posted by ScoutMastr

  Seriously guys, he was ranting because Bioware has been promoting "the story" so much he's sick of it...why? because he doesn't care about the story as much as other aspects of MMORPG's. There are a lot of people that would agree with him and a lot that will disagree. Discuss the topic if you will, but please leave out the "stfu, gtfo, don't buy it," and etc...unless you are getting paid to respond that way by Bioware--then I can understand.

When Twilight came out i didn't imidiately go on movie boards ranting about how this tweenie bopper shit should never have been made and how this is so not a real vampire movie true to the vampire lore. I simply chose not to see it because i had no interest in it.

When AoC was released i knew the game would suck for me having been in beta and tried the combat system i did not like at all. Did i go to the AoC boards to start making posts how aweful this game was after release? No i simply just avoided the title and played something else

When SWG came out and i tried my friends account i knew the game was not for me for a lot of reasons coming from EQ. Did i go to the boards ranting about the things i disliked about SWG? No i simply avoided the title

I think you get the point by now.

If you read about something that is a deal breaker for you then let it go.

There is absolutely no reason to rant over a game you have spent ZERO money, time or effort on. Not every game released has to cater to you or the OP. Nobody is forcing anybody to spend money on this title, which makes a rant about it idiotic. If you don't like a product then don't spend money on it and move on.

Why spend a second of your life complaining about things that is completely within your control to avoid. It's wasted effort but to each it's own i guess.