Originally posted by girlgeek

Originally posted by bleyzwun

I have never given a damn about the story while in the game.  I have read about lore for Warcraft and Warhammer lore outside of the game.  The problem is the way the story is told in game.  I don't want to read all this text on a parchment for every quest I pick up.  I just want to get them and do them because if I read everything I will have wasted leveling time. 

Now if there were cut scenes and good voice acting instead of text, I could appreciate the story of the MMO.  At this point, though, I agree with the OP.  So far no dev has made an MMO where I actually want to read the quest.  I don't play games to read all day.  I can do that with books and most likely get a better experience out of it.  My problem is that we have the technology to have nice cut scenes (even with in-game graphics) and voice overs.  I'm sorry but running up to each quest giver to read a bunch of text is not fun. 

As long as the presentation of the stories are good, and not what we've been getting, I do give a crap about the story.  If it's text, then I could care less.  I have read some quests in MMOs, but for the most part I find what the objective is and do it.

 

/begin rant

And right THERE.....is why our MMOs are losing so much DEPTH.  The younger generation of gamers, (a) doesn't like to read, (b) doesn't really care much about story...they just want to KILL STUFF, and (c) is so fucking focused on LEVELING that the game may as well just give them a damn max level character to START with and blow off any gameplay that doesn't have to do with either killing NPCs or other players.

Why don't you people just go play an FPS?  That's the part of the game that matters most to you, after all.  Your primary focus is to get to max level so that you can kick ass and take names, and not much else really matters.

I think I would like to see an MMO made that requires age verification of being over the age of 40 to play, a desire for a deeply interwoven and engaging story, a love for reading, and some kind of test for patience, with an understanding of the cliche...."anything worth a squat is worth working for and worth waiting for."

/end rant

I didn't know I was in the younger generation.  I'm 28, almost 29...  You're over 40? That's great for you.  I'm happy you still play games.  Why would you assume because I just want to level quickly, that I am young, and just want to kill stuff? How many times can I level up doing the SAME QUESTS IN EVERY MMO without being bored?  I just want to get it out of the way. 

Sorry, I don't want to read the text.  It's a waste of time.  Most of the quests are bullshit.  "I have a rat problem, can you solve it for me?  Kill 20 rats and bring them to me."  People had to read text back then because the technology wasn't there yet.  It's almost 2010, man... get over it.

Originally posted by bleyzwun

Originally posted by girlgeek

Originally posted by bleyzwun

I have never given a damn about the story while in the game.  I have read about lore for Warcraft and Warhammer lore outside of the game.  The problem is the way the story is told in game.  I don't want to read all this text on a parchment for every quest I pick up.  I just want to get them and do them because if I read everything I will have wasted leveling time. 

Now if there were cut scenes and good voice acting instead of text, I could appreciate the story of the MMO.  At this point, though, I agree with the OP.  So far no dev has made an MMO where I actually want to read the quest.  I don't play games to read all day.  I can do that with books and most likely get a better experience out of it.  My problem is that we have the technology to have nice cut scenes (even with in-game graphics) and voice overs.  I'm sorry but running up to each quest giver to read a bunch of text is not fun. 

As long as the presentation of the stories are good, and not what we've been getting, I do give a crap about the story.  If it's text, then I could care less.  I have read some quests in MMOs, but for the most part I find what the objective is and do it.

 

/begin rant

And right THERE.....is why our MMOs are losing so much DEPTH.  The younger generation of gamers, (a) doesn't like to read, (b) doesn't really care much about story...they just want to KILL STUFF, and (c) is so fucking focused on LEVELING that the game may as well just give them a damn max level character to START with and blow off any gameplay that doesn't have to do with either killing NPCs or other players.

Why don't you people just go play an FPS?  That's the part of the game that matters most to you, after all.  Your primary focus is to get to max level so that you can kick ass and take names, and not much else really matters.

I think I would like to see an MMO made that requires age verification of being over the age of 40 to play, a desire for a deeply interwoven and engaging story, a love for reading, and some kind of test for patience, with an understanding of the cliche...."anything worth a squat is worth working for and worth waiting for."

/end rant

 

I didn't know I was in the younger generation.  I'm 28, almost 29...  You're over 40? That's great for you.  I'm happy you still play games.  Why would you assume because I just want to level quickly, that I am young, and just want to kill stuff? How many times can I level up doing the SAME QUESTS IN EVERY MMO without being bored?  I just want to get it out of the way. 

Sorry, I don't want to read the text.  It's a waste of time.  Most of the quests are bullshit.  "I have a rat problem, can you solve it for me?  Kill 20 rats and bring them to me."  People had to read text back then because the technology wasn't there yet.  It's almost 2010, man... get over it.

 

 

Or maybe TOR will address that problem since all the NPCs talk?  I'm cool with that.  I'm NOT cool with eliminating stories and lore from MMORPGs.

And yes, being that I'm about  20 years older than you and could be your mother....I consider you the "younger generation."  I'm sorry about that.  If you ask your mother, she'll probably say the same thing.  No offense, but...there are a lot of people my age and older that play and we have a right to have our preferences too.  Most of us that do still play, were part of the original MMORPG genre, like Ultima Online, Everquest and even the MUDs before them.  So yes....we probably have a different idea about how we like things.  I'm not at ALL resistant to new technology making games better.  I LOVE that!  But when you start talking about eliminating storylines and lore....yeah...I get a bit bitchy about that, considering that it's the basis for why we're even PLAYING the game. Your characters reason for even existing is that you're a part of that story unfolding. That is what the "RPG" part of MMORPG means.

But yes...if your complaint is just the time to read stuff...sure, cutscenes or talking NPCs are fine with me.  Heck even allow people to hit escape to get out of them if they want...just don't eliminate story from the genre.

You're probably not suggesting eliminating story...you just don't like having to read it.  I understand.  I don't have an issue with that.  I don't really think we probably disagree as much as it sounds like we do.

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by needalife214

Originally posted by Bintowe

Hehe.  I read the title, had a gut feeling I was going to think the OP was an idiot, and lo and behold!  My gut was right, once again.

Here's a newsflash for you...NO ONE CARES.  SWG was changed for a reason, and if you think they'd get anywhere NEAR WoW level with an SWG Pre-NGE style game, then you are an idiot.  I'm sorry, but no game company actually seeking profits is going to produce what you want.  There are plenty of games that have that sandbox style that just failed in the end...it's because you guys, as a demographic, are WAY too picky.  Things have to be JUST SO, and god forbid there be any changes at all, because then there will be mass unsubs.

Get over it, please.

 

lies SWg would be bigger and better if they left it alone...i could have been WoW and SWG side by side.....now its not   and yes most of us are still pissed...

 

 

STORY is big  play KOTOR    i want story i want starwars Op  don't play it if you don't want it

Naw, it was heading down hill back in 2004 after crap loads of people left shortly after publish 10.

I always love it when people who were there and aren't wearing rose colored glasses comes along to shatter the myth making by the SWG cult. I started in late 2003 and remember the mass exodus as well. I also remember the major complaint by those who left was that the game didn't feel like Star Wars and there wasn't anything for combat players to do after they had grinded their templates. I'm glad to see this game will have more things for combat players to do besides killing animals and changing templates.

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

lol

Ever since I found out about this game I hit KoTOR and about to start KoTOR II by next week.  Granted I'm sure the story won't matter for a good number of people who haven't played these games, but the market of SW fans is tremendous.  I think the main reason why people aren't so much concerned about the story now is because of the lack of tangible content being released.  People want to know how things like class, combat, ie the basic components of the player interaction within this virtual world.  The major concern is that once the player interaction components are revealed that it will satisfy the prospective community.  Its assumed that developers will create a story and experience that will accurately immerse the player in the Star Wars franchise.  But hey, I'm stating this from a person who cares more about MMO gameplay quality than background story, someone who is more concerned about RPing could put story as their primary concerns over that of gameplay.

That and there's always the possibility of hardcore SW fans who just want to play the new starwars game for the sake that its there.  I'm not going to knock SW:G, but if you removed the SW franchise from the game it might not have held up as long as it did on its gameplay quality alone....  But thats just speculative of course- I played for about two or three months and found the space simulations more rewarding so my view on the whole SW:G experience would be different to those who enjoyed the other features the game had to offer.  It goes without saying that it should serve a learning experience for the developers of SWTOR so they can figure what to do to make a more successful game.

I personally like the idea of the game being story based. The OP says everyone hates classes, levels, grinding, etc. If that were true, no one would playing MMO's since almost ALL of them have these things.

Originally posted by law573

I personally like the idea of the game being story based. The OP says everyone hates classes, levels, grinding, etc. If that were true, no one would playing MMO's since almost ALL of them have these things.

except for the ones that dont that is

Newschool vs Oldschool. Boring if you ask me.

Oh, and I'lle take a storyline over mindless killing any day.

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with ME. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what I have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. I hate classes, I hate levels, I hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address my personal complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, I have been asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that because I believe that "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR have failed, that would send a message, but no. Alas I continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues I have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless to me.

Newsflash jackasses, I am not upset with lack of story, I am upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

Fixed. I think you forgot to check with all of us before you decided to speak for us.

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with ME. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what I have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. I hate classes, I hate levels, I hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address my personal complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, I have been asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that because I believe that "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR have failed, that would send a message, but no. Alas I continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues I have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless to me.

Newsflash jackasses, I am not upset with lack of story, I am upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

 

Fixed. I think you forgot to check with all of us before you decided to speak for us.

he may not speak for everyone, but i think its fair to say that he does voice concerns that more than a few players have about the game. but there is a simple answer, if the game is no good, just dont buy it, if Devs arent willing to learn lessons from other MMO's then so be it, AoC, DDO, E&B, WAR, just because a game has a good idea behind it, doesnt mean it will be a success, for Bioware this could be a defining moment, or just another footnote on a steadily lengthening list.

I never knew the "G" in MMORPG sttod for generalisations....

Just so we are clear, I am absolutly interested in storylines and lore in MMo's game. I think the whole graphics apsect is self defeating - I will not stay with a game because it has slightly better rendered trees than the last one, nor am I particularly resigned by defeating orcs, fairies and bloody dragons for teh rest of my life. In fact, the games I have enjoyed playing, and stayed with the longest, have in my opinion facets that many other games should take note of and I think / hope that SWTOR will build on:

WOW; Not a graphics demo but has strong lore and storylines to back up the "kill 10 / Fetch 10" grind

Eve; Great graphics but minimalist in design; Storylines you make yourself

EQ2: Great Lore

So, I am more than happy to stand out from the "nobody gives a cttrap about story" - for me its one of the most engaging aspects of the game.

I agree with the OP  while story is a good fluff and is important. Its not going to keep people playing for 1+ years.

And I disagree with half of you.   MMORPGS arnt about story just like there not about grind or crafting its about A Community (all those features just help the community to form and to grow).

Single player games do just fine in the Story department. Its not like I need to pay 15 a month and play with thousands of people so I can play a Co-Op SP game.

Thats why WAR had subs drop so bad. It was just PvP and just like Bioware seems to be doing except with story.  Mythic hyped pvp with the added oh we will have features like the rest of the market does. Just like Bioware.  But one trick games dont keep people paying for months.

Ive been around to long in this genre to be blinded by dev hype.  If a developer hypes one feature thats usualy all they have to brag about.   And that one fearute is story.   Most gamers I know dont even read the story and that goes for SP games too. Jeez whats next a MMOG with innovative fishing as its selling point.

In all the forums i visit and all the general chats i had to stomache. I have never seen a large group of gamers complain about story. Or fishing for that matter.

How many times do devs say a sp game will take 80+ hours to finish yet it takes most a 3rd of that to finish.  How long do you think itll take mmog gamers to burn thru it? I dont mean the "casual" gamers who play for 2 months then unsub. Im talking about the ones that sub for a game for years.

Do i Like story and lore in MMOGs hell yes.  But im not short sighted enough to think itll hold peoples interest for years.

And alot of you fans are going to end up screwing over Bioware by giveing them the impression that the market only cares about story.   Theres more to a mmog than just mission runing and because there new to this market you should let them know that.

EA will screw over Bioware if it means theyll get a quick buck out of box sales.  Did i hear right did they put Mythics hype master on this project?

When people dont care about the Story and Lore of an MMO, you get Warhammer. I dont think even the table top people read those quests or gave 2 flying chickens about its story since it was set in "an alternate timeline" meaning everything never happened and nothing that does happens will ever lead to anything else.

I'll be playing for the story, i enjoyed kotor and kotor2, i like progressive questing and feeling like im part of somthing big and awesome. I dont want to play another Warhammer.

Originally posted by ImixZinz

When people dont care about the Story and Lore of an MMO, you get Warhammer. I dont think even the table top people read those quests or gave 2 flying chickens about its story since it was set in "an alternate timeline" meaning everything never happened and nothing that does happens will ever lead to anything else.

 

I'll be playing for the story, i enjoyed kotor and kotor2, i like progressive questing and feeling like im part of somthing big and awesome. I dont want to play another Warhammer.

Uhh  WAR didnt fail because of a lack of story.   It had the same story and quest like any other MMOG.   The reason most didnt like the PvE cause it was more theme park than WoW.

The land was small and the mobs were cramed into each other like individual rides at theme park. And there version of a dungeon was nothing but 3 steps that was about getting the most points so you could get some loot. 

I actualy went to a real dungeon in WAR, non pq dungeon and it was weak. Took like 30 seconds and didnt get anything for it (had a full warband so thats why it was easy).  It was like three mobs then the Boss in a tiny cave it was pathetic.

But WAR wasnt about PvE it was PvP to bad that was just as bad as PvE.   See Mythic did the same thing bioware is doing  There focusing on a gimmick hoping itll make there game the best thing.

Dont fall for the EA hype machine.    Other games have focused on storys and lore.  Ya I know they say its better and its new and fresh.  Mythic said the same thing.

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

so don't play the game.

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

I like story.  And so does Pete.

Originally posted by BluePlayD-oh

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

 

I like story.  And so does Pete.

KOTOR was a great RPG because the story was really good, unliike many RPGs, AND hte story mattered, you ended up light side or dark side, and got a different outcome. Well, the same outcome but it felt different.

That's what TOR has the possiblity to do.

1. Make a good story for a change from most of the crappy MMORPGs storylines.

2. AND the story actually matters because your decisions send you in different directions.

Add some good RvR style PvP between Sith and Jedi, and that works for me.

 Take out story and you might as well no longer call it a RPG.

Wtf? Have people forgotten what RPGs are? Do really they just want the pewpewpew, one-shot kills and the reasonless grind for leveling and gear?

The problem in MMOs isn't the story, but how insignificant the story is made. You read a wall of text for a quest, to only find yourself never seeing anything related to that quest anymore after you do it. That kind of story sucks.

When a game wants us to quest to exterminate or reduce a monster X population from an area, I don't want to see anymore or not as many monster X after I complete the quest, otherwise what is the point?

When a game wants us to quest to kill an enemy leader, he's supposed to be dead, right? Not respawn seconds later, along with all his gang.

MMOs need to develop their dynamics - for now quests are just like a way to direct your leveling grind with the advantage you have something to entertain you for that specific quest. I want to do quests to help that village, to change the world. How do you do that without instancing? No idea, I'm not the technology expert, it's just something developers should improve to create a whole new degree of purpose to quests.

The story in LOTRO was awesome.  The instances really helped the immersion.

If you want no story with anime-style characters crapping all over themselves, try WoW.

Originally posted by fartking7

The story in LOTRO was awesome.  The instances really helped the immersion.

If you want no story with anime-style characters crapping all over themselves, try WoW.

there is certainly a story being told in WoW, just very few people actually care realize it.

in a nutshell, the 'invasion' of northrend by the horde and alliance, many quests, the 5 man dungeons...all lead to the reason why things are happening - an ancient god escaping its prison, which is the last boss of the current highest tier raid. now that this has been dealt with, the argent crusade has set up camp in icecrown, preparing for the eventual assault on icecrown citadel (which will be represented by the next few tiers of raids).  it is all happening for a story driven reason.

i agree that lotro did a great job of continuing the story basically from level one to max, with their book quest lines.