It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

I happen to give a crap about story...

 The rest of your post was just a generic rant, they announced that they are doing 8 unique classes, cinimatic action oriented combat, and all the features found in the usual mmo, in addition to a great story and a world that can be influenced by your characters decisions.

 Nothing about what they are doing is cookie cutter, they absolutly dominated at e3. It sounds like you wanted to rant for the sake of ranting.

I happen to like classes

The reason why no one gives a crap about the story part is because it is by far meanless (you experience something, but it doesn't change anything for you... and you experience it over and over with your alts...  Whatever uniqueness it had is gone...)

So I actually think that with a heavier focus on story, we may see some interesting system developed and can be utilized in later MMORPGs...

So yeh, there are people who WANT to care about the story, and there are those who DO care aobut the story right now...

Don't speak for everyone unless you "know" everyone...  Thank you...

After all what is a paltry company like "BIOWARE" thinking!!!! They obviously have no clue what they are doing.  I think they should definetly listen to a random gamer who trolls boards....  Listen I am not saying i disagree with you but come one man give them a chance.  They aren't saying they are not going to touch on other areas of the game they are just adding a story to it that's all.  Let us face it that is what Bioware as a company does best.  I also want them to add more emphasis on other areas of the game and not get over indulgent with the story but i think at the same time it's refreshing.  At the same time I agree with you when working with one of the largest IPs to date and considering it is their first attempt at the mmo genre they reall need to hit on the core parts of the game first. 

All in all what im trying to say is don't jump the gun, and give them a chance.  I highly doubt Bioware is just throwing the rest of the game to the side and saying  "YES WE WILL JUST MAKE THE STORY REALLLLY INDEPTH AND NOONE WILL NOTICE THE REST OF THE GAME SUCKING!!"

p.s Yes i am a posting nub as I usually don't respond to posts that I feel dont need responses :P a.k.a FLAMES.

I too care about the story.  But if you look around the MMO world there are a lot of new games coming out.   So on top of the Dev team holding back info to keep us hooked, they are doing this also so that the other companys like blizzard, do not just  copy what Bioware is doing in their new mmo's.

As for PvP in this game, do not know what it is like but I am sure there will be a big system for it since the story you don't care about is mainly about the fight between Sith and Jedi.

So in short, WAIT TILL THE ****IN GAME IS OUT TO CRY ABOUT IT!!!

I want more Story.

I play RPG's for story, so it's about time an mmoRPG finally had one(although LOTRO and FFXI did a lot more in that aspect than any of the current or older MMOs).

Well in most games, story leaves tons to be desired, If they pull off what they have pitched us, this could make story in MMOs actually just as good in the single player RPG. It's like for years developers have focused so much on systems, loot , gear and balances that story took a back seat and people excepted that. BioWare actually has the cash flow and time to put equal focus on all areas, that's great that it's happening for a Star Wars MMO and not some other fantasy game I would never bother to try.

I care about story......dude   not all the people excited for this game are excited about another MMo....they could be Rpg fans or KOTOR fans.....

story is a big part of starwars!  I'm not in this for another game...im in this for starwars....yeah i want PvP which they have started they have...sure ill raid a bit...which they said they have..

What people need to get around their heads is that this wont be a normal MMo  THIS GAME  will be different. its a story driven  Rpg ...that will just happen to support thousands of player which you can group with to help you.

This wont be a log in do x quest and get y reward...this game is about your story, not just empty text boxes...This game will tell a story not a give a waypoint to get to the next town that has the same things as the last one....in depth story arcs bring a different demension into the game...one that can be played over and over again cause it will be different...not just a new starting area..

I'd rather make my own story.  I've read hundreds of novels over the years and if I wanted to read a book I would drive over to Borders or log in to Amazon and buy a few.

Now that said, I do appreciate good writing in mmo's.  It's nice having a well written story arc that leaves plenty of room for individual players to create their own stories. 

Sorry man, but without a story, you really don't have an MMORPG. I want a story and more of it, not less. I don't know where you got this idea people don't like stories, but your dead wrong my friend.

I like story.

Also like classes and levels. Guess to each his own.

Originally posted by Terranah

I'd rather make my own story.  I've read hundreds of novels over the years and if I wanted to read a book I would drive over to Borders or log in to Amazon and buy a few.

 

Now that said, I do appreciate good writing in mmo's.  It's nice having a well written story arc that leaves plenty of room for individual players to create their own stories. 

Well, you kinda do in TOR, though the story has been written, you can take different paths in that story. If you wanna make your own life and story in an MMO than I suggest you try this.  There is actually Star wars content in that, just gotta search for it.

Well I've only been on the MMO scene for about four or five years. But I've been a guild/clan/team leader for all those years. And I have heard pretty much the same thing from a lot of my members and I myself share their sentement.


We are fully sick of grind. BUT story would be a nice diversion to help sweep the numbers game under the rug. I think that story is obviously A weak point of MMO's but not THE weak point. I want to see less grind, less levels AND NO MORE NUMBERS. I don't want to be an accountant if I"m GETTING PAID TO SO WHY WOULD I WHEN I'M NOT.


I actually have a couple posts about this in the general forum. One is about starting a gamer advocacy group against developers. I'm also in the process of developing my own games. So if anyone posting here would like to know more about that, please send me a PM, my team currently has a few openings and WE'RE ALL GAMERS LIKE YOU.


Anyway, I agree that Bioware may be tripping here with the story part, but I'll say this: There are a LOT of people waiting for that game. If it turns out to be another SWG, then we'll all be leaving within the first year. And the game will be dead in 2 years. Because few if any people are going to put up with that cock-block bullshit.


So...anyone want to make games with me? Haha, send me a pm.

Are you crazy?  So basically you want another grind?  I hate to tell you this, but there are plenty of those already.  Thank you, Bioware, for once again thinking outside the box and trying to make something with a story.

It's because of the story aspect that I'm looking forward to TOR. It's because of the story millions bought, played and loved the KOTOR games. It's because of the story they want KOTOR3 made.

Ask almost anyone who played FFxi and they will tell you they loved the missions that advanced the story through the game. Square only really dipped thier toe in though as you had huge leveling gaps between the missions at times. I t was still a great feature though and integral to that game's success I think. Bioware is taking it to the next level, or at least trying to.

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

Never played a game like Asheron's Call did you?  I, for one, DREAM of having a story again.  In AC I wasn't one of the few who broke the first Winter event, but after it, I tell you what , I sure as SH*T helped with the other events when they were rolling out after that.  Helping to take out Spires, Olthoi invasion et al, when you helped out you HELPED out and the world bloody changed. When a Spire went down it stayed down. you weren't going to do it on another character... EVER.   Please Bioware, make the story important again.

Ok, this is simple, if you dont like it and dont want to play a story based mmo gtfo.  They are going to make it anyway.  If you dont like it dont play it. And thanks for your opinion.  Because, I fore one, am looking forward to it.  It will be a nice change. 

Story is my favourite part of a single-player game, and has been sorely lacking in the MMO genre.

TOR's story element is probably going to be a gimmick to "end-game" players who prefer to do things like raid and PvP after reaching the maximum level. They'll do the story as they level and then get on with their preferred playstyle. More power to 'em.

But for casual, solo-oriented alt-o-holics like me, Bioware is promising never-before-seen replay value by giving every class its own completely unique storyline. The only way that they could possibly interest me more would be if the collectors edition came with a free working lightsaber.

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

I find story in a MMO very important. It is the main reason why I play single player RPG's. And the main thing that MMO's still lack. Classes, skillsystem, both systems can be crap and can be very good. On their own they wont hold my attention that very long. Unless it is in a MMO with a very immersive world and better yet a great story.

I find it so bloody retarded that some other player  thinks to know what I like as customer. Stfu already or just talk for yourself.

Yeah..um...right...story is meaningless. When I go to the movies....I buy the ticket and then play video games in the lobby until the last ten minutes. It's all about the endgame. Books?....what the hell is a book?

Originally posted by Terranah

I'd rather make my own story.  I've read hundreds of novels over the years and if I wanted to read a book I would drive over to Borders or log in to Amazon and buy a few.

 

I see the reasoning there, but if it were true, nobody would be watching movies. In filmmaking history, there have been people who believed that going the drama route would amount to merely copying theater, and that films should be more than drama, or stories.  

So from what I see here, there are a lot of people who just don't see computer gaming as a storytelling medium. Why not? The whole adventure and RPG genres thrive on stories - and computer gaming is surely not averse to telling them. I do read a lot of books and watch a lot of movies and I can honestly say some of the story moments in computer games rank up there with the good novels and movies: Planescape: Torment, Dreamweb, Sanitarium, The Longest Journey, Baldur's Gate 2 have many moments of brilliance in this regard. 

As for MMOs, I would agree the genre up to now is quite weak as far as storytelling goes. Even a game like LOTRO, which makes some smart use of instancing to progress the story, is quite flat when you compare it to any of the games mentioned above.

For me, this weaknessup to now makes Bioware's goal of making storytelling work in an MMORPG even more interesting. Sure, they can fail miserably, but how do you achieve something exciting without risking making a fool of yourself? :)

Usually what makes me quit most mmos is the lack of story and how it is presented, so I am happy they are focusing on that.  And the combat sounds awsome from what people said in E3.

Personally a story is what makes a game so interesting. Some of the long quest chains in wow that were not just kill x type boar, now kill y type boar, the ones that went across zones and gave lore, with a story, were great.

I am glad you just wish to run up to a NPC, click it, instantly get a quest, no info or anything, kill something, return to it, and get generic sword x, and move to the next npc.  That sounds pretty fun to me too! Gosh what was I thinking for wanting a story, for wanting to have the gameplay have a feel to it.

I am sure you can find a game just like that out there though.

 I disagree with the OP completely.

On another note ... he says failures such as AoC and Warhammer.  True those 2 are not bragging 11 million players but they are not failures.  Nothing has to be as successful as WoW to not be a failure.

I believe story is what you make of the games, however to have a company such as Bioware bring their expertise to the table is a good thing.  Maybe it will fail, maybe it will be as large as anything before it.  Either way, Bioware is bringing something to the genre that I am excited about.