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In this latest interview, MMOGamer has sat down with Star Wars: The Old Republic Lead Game Designer, James Ohlen and Lead Writer, Daniel Erickson to discuss some aspects of the game we've not heard too much of yet. For example, there are some wondering about how such an epic story driven game with no repeat content across classes is going to handle grouping. When asked about this in the interview, Lead Game Designer, James Ohlen responded:
For the full interview, head over to MMOGamer. Michael "MikeB" Bitton |
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6/12/09 4:24:21 PM#2
Every time a read a new chunk of info about this game, it gets worse. Hey, at least all the special needs children out there who wanted an MMO just for them will have this one. It will hold your hand and guide you through every moment!
FREEEEEDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM!! (William Wallace style)
And here we have one of the fundamental problems with MMO developers today. Just read this quote: "We always talk about the four pillars that create RPGs: You’ve got exploration, you’ve got progression, you’ve got combat, and you’ve got storytelling." Whatever happened to the REAL 4th pillar in MMORPG's known as COMMUNITY? Progression should NOT be a pillar of the game. It should be a hidden aspect that no one pays much attention to. A behind the scenes game mechanic. Like Dana Massey mentioned in the latest article; one of the problems with modern MMORPG is that people care too much about levels and progression and the content isn't important. Completely backwards. What level are you in Fallout 3? What? You don't know and don't care because you are having fun without worrying about levels? Hell you say! G A M I N G . O N L I N E . S I N C E |1995| |
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6/12/09 4:40:07 PM#3
I realize a lot of times that these MMO website interviewers have to polish knob to get these interviews, but can we not at least ask a couple hard questions?? That was 4 pages of Bioware saying "Story, Storytelling, Story, story, STORY!!, story, oh and this will be like KOTOR (hint: story)." Can we not ask about crafting or other non-combat features? Can we not ask how the game mechanics will support people who don't really care much about the story? There is a game outside the story/quests, right? Can we ask if there will be vast, wide open areas to be explored? Are they planning to add space combat in the future? Stop throwing these guys cream puffs. This in depth interview really did not tell us anything new. I don't think they have much else to reveal exept the remaining classes and locations. G A M I N G . O N L I N E . S I N C E |1995| |
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JYCowboy
 Advanced Member
Joined: 1/11/05
SWG: Jess Youngstar(CIA)-Ahazi |
6/12/09 9:59:49 PM#4
It sounds to me that a great portion of their resources is building multiple paths for this giant "Chooose your Adventure" book. I'm sure it will be grand with all the cinematics, VO and unique experiances but at the cost of community building? I will refrain from making a judgment as we have not heard how much depth there is on the other "Pillars" of this game. Exploring could be good or not, Progression should be(as previously stated) un-nocticed and Combat hopefully be good. Combat sounds intersting from these guys but will it carry over to non-story content? Meaning can I confront multiple enemies and still stand my ground? I watch with peaked interest. |
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therain93
 Advanced Member
Joined: 11/01/06
"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation." |
6/12/09 10:23:34 PM#5
Perhaps Bioware is simply emphasizing the exploration of branching storylines rather than pieced-together 3d assets.... Re-subscribing to City of Heroes? Get a bonus FREE 500 Points for the Paragon Market (a $6.25 value) using codes found in this thread here. --------------------- |
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6/12/09 10:28:42 PM#6
Originally posted by MindTrigger It would still be impossible to beat Fallout if you were always level 1. So yes, progression is involved very much. |
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6/12/09 10:51:08 PM#7
Originally posted by NecroHelium It would still be impossible to beat Fallout if you were always level 1. So yes, progression is involved very much. Of course it is, but it isn't in your face all the time, and you aren't running from quest to quest as fast as possible so you can level up and get to end-game content. It's completely different. G A M I N G . O N L I N E . S I N C E |1995| |
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6/12/09 10:55:14 PM#8
Originally posted by MindTrigger Of course it is, but it isn't in your face all the time, and you aren't running from quest to quest as fast as possible so you can level up and get to end-game content. It's completely different. And have you played TOR yet to say its not EXACTLY the same as what you described for Fallout??? No, you haven't, and considering they keep on talking about the story, if that's what you play it for, the progression isn't going to matter nearly as much as in other games because instead of waiting for that new force power, you are trying to find out where to find the bad guy who blew up your planet. Stop doomsaying based on speculation. |
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6/12/09 11:08:14 PM#9
Originally posted by NecroHelium Of course it is, but it isn't in your face all the time, and you aren't running from quest to quest as fast as possible so you can level up and get to end-game content. It's completely different. And have you played TOR yet to say its not EXACTLY the same as what you described for Fallout??? No, you haven't, and considering they keep on talking about the story, if that's what you play it for, the progression isn't going to matter nearly as much as in other games because instead of waiting for that new force power, you are trying to find out where to find the bad guy who blew up your planet. Stop doomsaying based on speculation.
+1 nerd rage... Seriously tho, all you hear about is story, and they didn't even include the 5th pillar which is more important than any other feature.....COMMUNITY. They even said one can play the game without interacting with other ppl. I'm not calling the fail card, just their starting to piss ppl off only talking about their story system. We get it, it is fukken uber. WHOOPIE FUKKEN DO! I play mmos for the fact i'm not alone grinding rats. Trust me TOR will have similar quest, just slapped on with a heroic feel. And all these "in-depth" interviews ask the same questions almost all the fukken time. Like someone said before, "if their not pulling one over us, then they fail at interviews". |
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6/12/09 11:09:53 PM#10
Originally posted by NecroHelium Of course it is, but it isn't in your face all the time, and you aren't running from quest to quest as fast as possible so you can level up and get to end-game content. It's completely different. And have you played TOR yet to say its not EXACTLY the same as what you described for Fallout??? No, you haven't, and considering they keep on talking about the story, if that's what you play it for, the progression isn't going to matter nearly as much as in other games because instead of waiting for that new force power, you are trying to find out where to find the bad guy who blew up your planet. Stop doomsaying based on speculation. yes, I realize TOR is a single player RPG with online elements. Thanks for pointing that out again. Speculation? hahaha. As if you aren't speculating that the game is going to be a marvel of the modern world. You and the rest of the fan boys. G A M I N G . O N L I N E . S I N C E |1995| |
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6/12/09 11:19:10 PM#11
Originally posted by MindTrigger And have you played TOR yet to say its not EXACTLY the same as what you described for Fallout??? No, you haven't, and considering they keep on talking about the story, if that's what you play it for, the progression isn't going to matter nearly as much as in other games because instead of waiting for that new force power, you are trying to find out where to find the bad guy who blew up your planet. Stop doomsaying based on speculation. yes, I realize TOR is a single player RPG with online elements. Thanks for pointing that out again. Speculation? hahaha. As if you aren't speculating that the game is going to be a marvel of the modern world. You and the rest of the fan boys. I'm not saying its going to be the marvel of the modern world, I'm saying neither of us has nearly enough information to deduce EXACTLY how this game is going to turn out. The difference is I'm doing my argument, that so far I have heard nothing to doom this game, without the childish overtones you portray so very well in your own. |
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6/13/09 4:55:22 AM#12
Originally posted by JYCowboy
Unfortunately it seems that the majority of MMO players these days want solo content. That's the reason WoW succeeded. It came out at exactly the right time to capitolize on the soloing aspect of the genre. I don't understand it personally. But... I am way more excited than I should be about TOR because one thing I always wanted to be able to do in KOTOR was play with friends. If this game is as good as KOTOR + playing with friends + decent PvP at end-game, I will be happy to pay the $16 a month. "There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer." |
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6/14/09 10:18:11 PM#13
progression, as the OP pointed out, is not a pillar. progression is the evolution of the character by means of content, which is hereby represented by "pillars": such as combat, exploration, crafting (not included in bioware's "pillars"), questing (or story-telling as they prefer) and community. As such, progression is not content, but rather the result of content. in essence then, bioware has three pillars (unless they include progressive crafting); and rather than having "an extra pillar" which they so proudly announce, they are missing two (community and crafting). |
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6/15/09 12:19:36 AM#14
These guys are so tight lipped on content that I have to assume the worst. As much as they keep talking about how "story" is the main feature of the game, there is almost no mention of the MMO elements that matter to me. I assume there won't be space combat or even space travel other than warp from planet X to planet Y. There is certain to be no housing, maybe even no meaningful crafting or economy. I know bioware makes a decent single-player RPG, but I'm starting to wonder if they have even the faintest idea what MMO players want in a game..... then again, maybe they aren't making this game for the existing MMO audience anyway. |
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6/15/09 7:46:49 AM#15
I'm getting really tired of nerds who depend on game mechanics to force people to socialize and I'm really getting sick of people who think grouping is the end all, be all, social mechanic. You people are sad and pathetic and need to grow up. |
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JYCowboy
Advanced Member
Joined: 1/11/05
SWG: Jess Youngstar(CIA)-Ahazi |
6/15/09 10:51:18 AM#16
Originally posted by Vrazule
OK, lets look at this another way. What is in this game that requires me to interact with you? Is there PVP? Is there Crafting? Is there an Entertainer system? What makes interacting with you, for the games sake, at all required? If your a Star Wars fan and I am to, great. We have something in common and that should be enough. If your a MMO vet, and I am to then that might have wieght also. We then converse about our like interests. What if you hate Star Wars and don't care for MMO players? You then have nothing to share with this MMO community of significate note. But, what encourages cooperative play in this game? I can only note one mention in helping fellow players to earn quicker "progress". |
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singsofdeath
 Novice Member
Joined: 1/28/06
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." |
6/15/09 10:55:26 AM#17
Originally posted by JYCowboy
OK, lets look at this another way. What is in this game that requires me to interact with you? Is there PVP? Yes Is there Crafting? Yes (albeit what system, no one knows) Is there an Entertainer system? What makes interacting with you, for the games sake, at all required? If your a Star Wars fan and I am to, great. We have something in common and that should be enough. If your a MMO vet, and I am to then that might have wieght also. We then converse about our like interests. What if you hate Star Wars and don't care for MMO players? You then have nothing to share with this MMO community of significate note. But, what encourages cooperative play in this game? I can only note one mention in helping fellow players to earn quicker "progress".
See the two red insertions.
I'd like to add that they also mentioned there will be "raids" (though in what fashion and form, no one knows yet). So there's PvP and Raiding which actually -requires- other players, no?
And that leaves out the pure social aspect of people simply getting together to play together because it is fun. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because the Dev's opted to give you a chance to do nearly anything solo.
-OPTION- being the operative word here. |
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JYCowboy
Advanced Member
Joined: 1/11/05
SWG: Jess Youngstar(CIA)-Ahazi |
6/15/09 10:58:15 AM#18
My belief is that a significate crafting system is not going to happen. We may get a basic system open to all professions much like in the original games. Crafting and player controled communities(housing) will be found to be an obstical to the "face paced" action of this game. The best there might be is some form of instanced apartments and/or banks. At this point anything more incompassing will be saved for expansions or RMT transactions such as space travel and combat. Again, must wait and see. |
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JYCowboy
Advanced Member
Joined: 1/11/05
SWG: Jess Youngstar(CIA)-Ahazi |
6/15/09 11:14:37 AM#19
Originally posted by singsofdeath
See the two red insertions.
I'd like to add that they also mentioned there will be "raids" (though in what fashion and form, no one knows yet). So there's PvP and Raiding which actually -requires- other players, no?
And that leaves out the pure social aspect of people simply getting together to play together because it is fun. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because the Dev's opted to give you a chance to do nearly anything solo.
-OPTION- being the operative word here. Singsofdeath, do you PVP? If so, great, I have no prob with that. However, the direct market that this game is trying to appeal to does not. They want that solo play experiance without having to be exposed to negative interaction of the PVP crowd. This is a barrier to them ever sending you a /tell. They want thier 3 hours a night unfettered then log to sleep for work or school. That is the general conception of the target audiance. Anyone that devotes themselves to improving thier character beyond finishing the final Quest is deemed Hardcore. This is a concept that is beyond the pratical PVPer. They don't see themselves as a niche demographic because the masses never come to boards like this and post about it. Why make themselves exposed on 2 fronts (game and forums)? |
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singsofdeath
Novice Member
Joined: 1/28/06
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." |
6/15/09 11:21:17 AM#20
Originally posted by JYCowboy
See the two red insertions.
I'd like to add that they also mentioned there will be "raids" (though in what fashion and form, no one knows yet). So there's PvP and Raiding which actually -requires- other players, no?
And that leaves out the pure social aspect of people simply getting together to play together because it is fun. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because the Dev's opted to give you a chance to do nearly anything solo.
-OPTION- being the operative word here. Singsofdeath, do you PVP? If so, great, I have no prob with that. However, the direct market that this game is trying to appeal to does not. They want that solo play experiance without having to be exposed to negative interaction of the PVP crowd. This is a barrier to them ever sending you a /tell. They want thier 3 hours a night unfettered then log to sleep for work or school. That is the general conception of the target audiance. Anyone that devotes themselves to improving thier character beyond finishing the final Quest is deemed Hardcore. This is a concept that is beyond the pratical PVPer. They don't see themselves as a niche demographic because the masses never come to boards like this and post about it. Why make themselves exposed on 2 fronts (game and forums)?
Yes, I do like to PvP. (to answer your question :) )
It is a fact that BioWare has looked to advice regarding PvP from Mythic, largely appreciated as pretty well versed when it comes to the PvP aspect of MMO's (due to DAoC and some would argue WAR, too, though that game has a host of other problems). This gives me personally a glimmer of hope that PvP will not be just a slapped-on system that doesn't make much sense.
Personally, yes, I love to PvP. I also love to experience a story. And i cannot for the life of me, imagine why this would be such a problem. And even if it were, if it were as you said, then those people have other options, don#t they. PvP is one aspect that's been confirmed. There are Raids, and there is the story. There will most likely be social hubs as well if you want to get into RP (the cantina in one of the screenshots comes to mind).
What the game won't be (probably) is fully open, FFA PvP and I think -that- is what most of the people you describe want to avoid. |
