In this latest interview, MMOGamer has sat down with Star Wars: The Old Republic Lead Game Designer, James Ohlen and Lead Writer, Daniel Erickson to discuss some aspects of the game we've not heard too much of yet.

For example, there are some wondering about how such an epic story driven game with no repeat content across classes is going to handle grouping. When asked about this in the interview, Lead Game Designer, James Ohlen responded:

James Ohlen: So, whenever he’s setting up the worlds, he’s very conscious of the fact that all the points of interest for the different class stories are set up in such a way that the flow of your party, you’re going to be able to move around the world in such a way that you can still stay together easily.

Plus, there’s activities to do like for example, if you’re going to help the Smuggler, and you’re a Jedi-I can’t talk about the specific Jedi class, but there will be Jedi-there’ll be activities for that Jedi to do while the Smuggler is doing his quest, that will help him out.

For the full interview, head over to MMOGamer.

Every time a read a new chunk of info about this game, it gets worse.  Hey, at least all the special needs children out there who wanted an MMO just for them will have this one.  It will hold your hand and guide you through every moment!

FREEEEEDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM!!  (William Wallace style)

And here we have one of the fundamental problems with MMO developers today.  Just read this quote:

"We always talk about the four pillars that create RPGs: You’ve got exploration, you’ve got progression, you’ve got combat, and you’ve got storytelling."

Whatever happened to the REAL 4th pillar in MMORPG's known as COMMUNITY?  Progression should NOT be a pillar of the game.  It should be a hidden aspect that no one pays much attention to. A behind the scenes game mechanic.  Like Dana Massey mentioned in the latest article; one of the problems with modern MMORPG is that people care too much about levels and progression and the content isn't important. Completely backwards.

What level are you in Fallout 3?  What?  You don't know and don't care because you are having fun without worrying about levels?  Hell you say!

I realize a lot of times that these MMO website interviewers have to polish knob to get these interviews, but can we not at least ask a couple hard questions??

That was 4 pages of Bioware saying "Story, Storytelling, Story, story, STORY!!, story, oh and this will be like KOTOR (hint: story)."

Can we not ask about crafting or other non-combat features?  Can we not ask how the game mechanics will support people who don't really care much about the story?  There is a game outside the story/quests, right? Can we ask if there will be vast, wide open areas to be explored? Are they planning to add space combat in the future? Stop throwing these guys cream puffs.

This in depth interview really did not tell us anything new.  I don't think they have much else to reveal exept the remaining classes and locations.

It sounds to me that a great portion of their resources is building multiple paths for this giant "Chooose your Adventure" book.  I'm sure it will be grand with all the cinematics, VO and unique experiances but at the cost of community building?  I will refrain from making a judgment as we have not heard how much depth there is on the other "Pillars" of this game.  Exploring could be good or not, Progression should be(as previously stated) un-nocticed and Combat hopefully be good.  Combat sounds intersting from these guys but will it carry over to non-story content?  Meaning can I confront multiple enemies and still stand my ground?

I watch with peaked interest.

Perhaps Bioware is simply emphasizing the exploration of branching storylines rather than pieced-together 3d assets....

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Every time a read a new chunk of info about this game, it gets worse.  Hey, at least all the special needs children out there who wanted an MMO just for them will have this one.  It will hold your hand and guide you through every moment!

 

FREEEEEDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM!!  (William Wallace style)

 

And here we have one of the fundamental problems with MMO developers today.  Just read this quote:

"We always talk about the four pillars that create RPGs: You’ve got exploration, you’ve got progression, you’ve got combat, and you’ve got storytelling."

Whatever happened to the REAL 4th pillar in MMORPG's known as COMMUNITY?  Progression should NOT be a pillar of the game.  It should be a hidden aspect that no one pays much attention to. A behind the scenes game mechanic.  Like Dana Massey mentioned in the latest article; one of the problems with modern MMORPG is that people care too much about levels and progression and the content isn't important. Completely backwards.

What level are you in Fallout 3?  What?  You don't know and don't care because you are having fun without worrying about levels?  Hell you say!

It would still be impossible to beat Fallout if you were always level 1.  So yes, progression is involved very much.

Originally posted by NecroHelium

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Every time a read a new chunk of info about this game, it gets worse.  Hey, at least all the special needs children out there who wanted an MMO just for them will have this one.  It will hold your hand and guide you through every moment!

 

FREEEEEDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM!!  (William Wallace style)

 

And here we have one of the fundamental problems with MMO developers today.  Just read this quote:

"We always talk about the four pillars that create RPGs: You’ve got exploration, you’ve got progression, you’ve got combat, and you’ve got storytelling."

Whatever happened to the REAL 4th pillar in MMORPG's known as COMMUNITY?  Progression should NOT be a pillar of the game.  It should be a hidden aspect that no one pays much attention to. A behind the scenes game mechanic.  Like Dana Massey mentioned in the latest article; one of the problems with modern MMORPG is that people care too much about levels and progression and the content isn't important. Completely backwards.

What level are you in Fallout 3?  What?  You don't know and don't care because you are having fun without worrying about levels?  Hell you say!

It would still be impossible to beat Fallout if you were always level 1.  So yes, progression is involved very much.

Of course it is, but it isn't in your face all the time, and you aren't running from quest to quest as fast as possible so you can level up and get to end-game content.  It's completely different.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by NecroHelium

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Every time a read a new chunk of info about this game, it gets worse.  Hey, at least all the special needs children out there who wanted an MMO just for them will have this one.  It will hold your hand and guide you through every moment!

 

FREEEEEDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM!!  (William Wallace style)

 

And here we have one of the fundamental problems with MMO developers today.  Just read this quote:

"We always talk about the four pillars that create RPGs: You’ve got exploration, you’ve got progression, you’ve got combat, and you’ve got storytelling."

Whatever happened to the REAL 4th pillar in MMORPG's known as COMMUNITY?  Progression should NOT be a pillar of the game.  It should be a hidden aspect that no one pays much attention to. A behind the scenes game mechanic.  Like Dana Massey mentioned in the latest article; one of the problems with modern MMORPG is that people care too much about levels and progression and the content isn't important. Completely backwards.

What level are you in Fallout 3?  What?  You don't know and don't care because you are having fun without worrying about levels?  Hell you say!

It would still be impossible to beat Fallout if you were always level 1.  So yes, progression is involved very much.

Of course it is, but it isn't in your face all the time, and you aren't running from quest to quest as fast as possible so you can level up and get to end-game content.  It's completely different.

And have you played TOR yet to say its not EXACTLY the same as what you described for Fallout???  No, you haven't, and considering they keep on talking about the story, if that's what you play it for, the progression isn't going to matter nearly as much as in other games because instead of waiting for that new force power, you are trying to find out where to find the bad guy who blew up your planet.  Stop doomsaying based on speculation.

Originally posted by NecroHelium

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by NecroHelium

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Every time a read a new chunk of info about this game, it gets worse.  Hey, at least all the special needs children out there who wanted an MMO just for them will have this one.  It will hold your hand and guide you through every moment!

 

FREEEEEDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM!!  (William Wallace style)

 

And here we have one of the fundamental problems with MMO developers today.  Just read this quote:

"We always talk about the four pillars that create RPGs: You’ve got exploration, you’ve got progression, you’ve got combat, and you’ve got storytelling."

Whatever happened to the REAL 4th pillar in MMORPG's known as COMMUNITY?  Progression should NOT be a pillar of the game.  It should be a hidden aspect that no one pays much attention to. A behind the scenes game mechanic.  Like Dana Massey mentioned in the latest article; one of the problems with modern MMORPG is that people care too much about levels and progression and the content isn't important. Completely backwards.

What level are you in Fallout 3?  What?  You don't know and don't care because you are having fun without worrying about levels?  Hell you say!

It would still be impossible to beat Fallout if you were always level 1.  So yes, progression is involved very much.

Of course it is, but it isn't in your face all the time, and you aren't running from quest to quest as fast as possible so you can level up and get to end-game content.  It's completely different.

And have you played TOR yet to say its not EXACTLY the same as what you described for Fallout???  No, you haven't, and considering they keep on talking about the story, if that's what you play it for, the progression isn't going to matter nearly as much as in other games because instead of waiting for that new force power, you are trying to find out where to find the bad guy who blew up your planet.  Stop doomsaying based on speculation.

+1 nerd rage...

Seriously tho, all you hear about is story, and they didn't even include the 5th pillar which is more important than any other feature.....COMMUNITY. They even said one can play the game without interacting with other ppl. I'm not calling the fail card, just their starting to piss ppl off only talking about their story system. We get it, it is fukken uber. WHOOPIE FUKKEN DO! I play mmos for the fact i'm not alone grinding rats. Trust me TOR will have similar quest, just slapped on with a heroic feel. And all these "in-depth" interviews ask the same questions almost all the fukken time. Like someone said before, "if their not pulling one over us, then they fail at interviews".

Originally posted by NecroHelium

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by NecroHelium

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Every time a read a new chunk of info about this game, it gets worse.  Hey, at least all the special needs children out there who wanted an MMO just for them will have this one.  It will hold your hand and guide you through every moment!

 

FREEEEEDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM!!  (William Wallace style)

 

And here we have one of the fundamental problems with MMO developers today.  Just read this quote:

"We always talk about the four pillars that create RPGs: You’ve got exploration, you’ve got progression, you’ve got combat, and you’ve got storytelling."

Whatever happened to the REAL 4th pillar in MMORPG's known as COMMUNITY?  Progression should NOT be a pillar of the game.  It should be a hidden aspect that no one pays much attention to. A behind the scenes game mechanic.  Like Dana Massey mentioned in the latest article; one of the problems with modern MMORPG is that people care too much about levels and progression and the content isn't important. Completely backwards.

What level are you in Fallout 3?  What?  You don't know and don't care because you are having fun without worrying about levels?  Hell you say!

It would still be impossible to beat Fallout if you were always level 1.  So yes, progression is involved very much.

Of course it is, but it isn't in your face all the time, and you aren't running from quest to quest as fast as possible so you can level up and get to end-game content.  It's completely different.

And have you played TOR yet to say its not EXACTLY the same as what you described for Fallout???  No, you haven't, and considering they keep on talking about the story, if that's what you play it for, the progression isn't going to matter nearly as much as in other games because instead of waiting for that new force power, you are trying to find out where to find the bad guy who blew up your planet.  Stop doomsaying based on speculation.

yes, I realize TOR is a single player RPG with online elements.  Thanks for pointing that out again. Speculation?  hahaha.  As if you aren't speculating that the game is going to be a marvel of the modern world.  You and the rest of the fan boys.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by NecroHelium

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by NecroHelium

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Every time a read a new chunk of info about this game, it gets worse.  Hey, at least all the special needs children out there who wanted an MMO just for them will have this one.  It will hold your hand and guide you through every moment!

 

FREEEEEDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMM!!  (William Wallace style)

 

And here we have one of the fundamental problems with MMO developers today.  Just read this quote:

"We always talk about the four pillars that create RPGs: You’ve got exploration, you’ve got progression, you’ve got combat, and you’ve got storytelling."

Whatever happened to the REAL 4th pillar in MMORPG's known as COMMUNITY?  Progression should NOT be a pillar of the game.  It should be a hidden aspect that no one pays much attention to. A behind the scenes game mechanic.  Like Dana Massey mentioned in the latest article; one of the problems with modern MMORPG is that people care too much about levels and progression and the content isn't important. Completely backwards.

What level are you in Fallout 3?  What?  You don't know and don't care because you are having fun without worrying about levels?  Hell you say!

It would still be impossible to beat Fallout if you were always level 1.  So yes, progression is involved very much.

Of course it is, but it isn't in your face all the time, and you aren't running from quest to quest as fast as possible so you can level up and get to end-game content.  It's completely different.

And have you played TOR yet to say its not EXACTLY the same as what you described for Fallout???  No, you haven't, and considering they keep on talking about the story, if that's what you play it for, the progression isn't going to matter nearly as much as in other games because instead of waiting for that new force power, you are trying to find out where to find the bad guy who blew up your planet.  Stop doomsaying based on speculation.

yes, I realize TOR is a single player RPG with online elements.  Thanks for pointing that out again. Speculation?  hahaha.  As if you aren't speculating that the game is going to be a marvel of the modern world.  You and the rest of the fan boys.

I'm not saying its going to be the marvel of the modern world, I'm saying neither of us has nearly enough information to deduce EXACTLY how this game is going to turn out.  The difference is I'm doing my argument, that so far I have heard nothing to doom this game, without the childish overtones you portray so very well in your own.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

It sounds to me that a great portion of their resources is building multiple paths for this giant "Chooose your Adventure" book.  I'm sure it will be grand with all the cinematics, VO and unique experiances but at the cost of community building?

Unfortunately it seems that the majority of MMO players these days want solo content.  That's the reason WoW succeeded.  It came out at exactly the right time to capitolize on the soloing aspect of the genre.

I don't understand it personally.

But... I am way more excited than I should be about TOR because one thing I always wanted to be able to do in KOTOR was play with friends.

If this game is as good as KOTOR + playing with friends + decent PvP at end-game, I will be happy to pay the $16 a month.

progression, as the OP pointed out, is not a pillar. progression is the evolution of the character by means of content, which is hereby represented by "pillars": such as combat, exploration, crafting (not included in bioware's "pillars"), questing (or story-telling as they prefer) and community. As such, progression is not content, but rather the result of content.

in essence then, bioware has three pillars (unless they include progressive crafting); and rather than having "an extra pillar" which they so proudly announce, they are missing two (community and crafting).

These guys are so tight lipped on content that I have to assume the worst. 

As much as they keep talking about how "story" is the main feature of the game, there is almost no mention of the MMO elements that matter to me.  I assume there won't be space combat or even space travel other than warp from planet X to planet Y.  There is certain to be no housing, maybe even no meaningful crafting or economy.  I know bioware makes a decent single-player RPG, but I'm starting to wonder if they have even the faintest idea what MMO players want in a game..... then again, maybe they aren't making this game for the existing MMO audience anyway.

I'm getting really tired of nerds who depend on game mechanics to force people to socialize and I'm really getting sick of people who think grouping is the end all, be all, social mechanic.

You people are sad and pathetic and need to grow up.

Originally posted by Vrazule

I'm getting really tired of nerds who depend on game mechanics to force people to socialize and I'm really getting sick of people who think grouping is the end all, be all, social mechanic.

You people are sad and pathetic and need to grow up.

OK, lets look at this another way.  What is in this game that requires me to interact with you?  Is there PVP?  Is there Crafting?  Is there an Entertainer system?  What makes interacting with you, for the games sake, at all required?

If your a Star Wars fan and I am to, great.  We have something in common and that should be enough.  If your a MMO vet, and I am to then that might have wieght also.  We then converse about our like interests.  What if you hate Star Wars and don't care for MMO players?  You then have nothing to share with this MMO community of significate note.  But, what encourages cooperative play in this game?  I can only note one mention in helping fellow players to earn quicker "progress".

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Vrazule

I'm getting really tired of nerds who depend on game mechanics to force people to socialize and I'm really getting sick of people who think grouping is the end all, be all, social mechanic.

You people are sad and pathetic and need to grow up.

 

OK, lets look at this another way.  What is in this game that requires me to interact with you?  Is there PVP? Yes  Is there Crafting? Yes (albeit what system, no one knows)  Is there an Entertainer system?  What makes interacting with you, for the games sake, at all required?

If your a Star Wars fan and I am to, great.  We have something in common and that should be enough.  If your a MMO vet, and I am to then that might have wieght also.  We then converse about our like interests.  What if you hate Star Wars and don't care for MMO players?  You then have nothing to share with this MMO community of significate note.  But, what encourages cooperative play in this game?  I can only note one mention in helping fellow players to earn quicker "progress".

See the two red insertions. 

I'd like to add that they also mentioned there will be "raids" (though in what fashion and form, no one knows yet). So there's PvP and Raiding which actually -requires- other players, no? 

And that leaves out the pure social aspect of people simply getting together to play together because it is fun. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because the Dev's opted to give you a chance to do nearly anything solo. 

-OPTION- being the operative word here.

My belief is that a significate crafting system is not going to happen.  We may get a basic system open to all professions much like in the original games.  Crafting and player controled communities(housing) will be found to be an obstical to the "face paced" action of this game.  The best there might be is some form of instanced apartments and/or banks.  At this point anything more incompassing will be saved for expansions or RMT transactions such as space travel and combat.

Again, must wait and see.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Vrazule

I'm getting really tired of nerds who depend on game mechanics to force people to socialize and I'm really getting sick of people who think grouping is the end all, be all, social mechanic.

You people are sad and pathetic and need to grow up.

 

OK, lets look at this another way.  What is in this game that requires me to interact with you?  Is there PVP? Yes  Is there Crafting? Yes (albeit what system, no one knows)  Is there an Entertainer system?  What makes interacting with you, for the games sake, at all required?

If your a Star Wars fan and I am to, great.  We have something in common and that should be enough.  If your a MMO vet, and I am to then that might have wieght also.  We then converse about our like interests.  What if you hate Star Wars and don't care for MMO players?  You then have nothing to share with this MMO community of significate note.  But, what encourages cooperative play in this game?  I can only note one mention in helping fellow players to earn quicker "progress".

 

See the two red insertions. 

 

I'd like to add that they also mentioned there will be "raids" (though in what fashion and form, no one knows yet). So there's PvP and Raiding which actually -requires- other players, no? 

 

And that leaves out the pure social aspect of people simply getting together to play together because it is fun. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because the Dev's opted to give you a chance to do nearly anything solo. 

 

-OPTION- being the operative word here.

Singsofdeath, do you PVP?
 

If so, great, I have no prob with that.  However, the direct market that this game is trying to appeal to does not.  They want that solo play experiance without having to be exposed to negative interaction of the PVP crowd.  This is a barrier to them ever sending you a /tell.  They want thier 3 hours a night unfettered then log to sleep for work or school.  That is the general conception of the target audiance.  Anyone that devotes themselves to improving thier character beyond finishing the final Quest is deemed Hardcore.  This is a concept that is beyond the pratical PVPer.  They don't see themselves as a niche demographic because the masses never come to boards like this and post about it.  Why make themselves exposed on 2 fronts (game and forums)?

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Vrazule

I'm getting really tired of nerds who depend on game mechanics to force people to socialize and I'm really getting sick of people who think grouping is the end all, be all, social mechanic.

You people are sad and pathetic and need to grow up.

 

OK, lets look at this another way.  What is in this game that requires me to interact with you?  Is there PVP? Yes  Is there Crafting? Yes (albeit what system, no one knows)  Is there an Entertainer system?  What makes interacting with you, for the games sake, at all required?

If your a Star Wars fan and I am to, great.  We have something in common and that should be enough.  If your a MMO vet, and I am to then that might have wieght also.  We then converse about our like interests.  What if you hate Star Wars and don't care for MMO players?  You then have nothing to share with this MMO community of significate note.  But, what encourages cooperative play in this game?  I can only note one mention in helping fellow players to earn quicker "progress".

 

See the two red insertions. 

 

I'd like to add that they also mentioned there will be "raids" (though in what fashion and form, no one knows yet). So there's PvP and Raiding which actually -requires- other players, no? 

 

And that leaves out the pure social aspect of people simply getting together to play together because it is fun. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because the Dev's opted to give you a chance to do nearly anything solo. 

 

-OPTION- being the operative word here.

Singsofdeath, do you PVP?
 

If so, great, I have no prob with that.  However, the direct market that this game is trying to appeal to does not.  They want that solo play experiance without having to be exposed to negative interaction of the PVP crowd.  This is a barrier to them ever sending you a /tell.  They want thier 3 hours a night unfettered then log to sleep for work or school.  That is the general conception of the target audiance.  Anyone that devotes themselves to improving thier character beyond finishing the final Quest is deemed Hardcore.  This is a concept that is beyond the pratical PVPer.  They don't see themselves as a niche demographic because the masses never come to boards like this and post about it.  Why make themselves exposed on 2 fronts (game and forums)?

Yes, I do like to PvP. (to answer your question :) )

It is a fact that BioWare has looked to advice regarding PvP from Mythic, largely appreciated as pretty well versed when it comes to the PvP aspect of MMO's (due to DAoC and some would argue WAR, too, though that game has a host of other problems). This gives me personally a glimmer of hope that PvP will not be just a slapped-on system that doesn't make much sense. 

Personally, yes, I love to PvP. I also love to experience a story. And i cannot for the life of me, imagine why this would be such a problem. And even if it were, if it were as you said, then those people have other options, don#t they. PvP is one aspect that's been confirmed. There are Raids, and there is the story. There will most likely be social hubs as well if you want to get into RP (the cantina in one of the screenshots comes to mind). 

What the game won't be (probably) is fully open, FFA PvP and I think -that- is what most of the people you describe want to avoid. 

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Vrazule

I'm getting really tired of nerds who depend on game mechanics to force people to socialize and I'm really getting sick of people who think grouping is the end all, be all, social mechanic.

You people are sad and pathetic and need to grow up.

 

OK, lets look at this another way.  What is in this game that requires me to interact with you?  Is there PVP? Yes  Is there Crafting? Yes (albeit what system, no one knows)  Is there an Entertainer system?  What makes interacting with you, for the games sake, at all required?

If your a Star Wars fan and I am to, great.  We have something in common and that should be enough.  If your a MMO vet, and I am to then that might have wieght also.  We then converse about our like interests.  What if you hate Star Wars and don't care for MMO players?  You then have nothing to share with this MMO community of significate note.  But, what encourages cooperative play in this game?  I can only note one mention in helping fellow players to earn quicker "progress".

 

See the two red insertions. 

 

I'd like to add that they also mentioned there will be "raids" (though in what fashion and form, no one knows yet). So there's PvP and Raiding which actually -requires- other players, no? 

 

And that leaves out the pure social aspect of people simply getting together to play together because it is fun. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because the Dev's opted to give you a chance to do nearly anything solo. 

 

-OPTION- being the operative word here.

Singsofdeath, do you PVP?
 

If so, great, I have no prob with that.  However, the direct market that this game is trying to appeal to does not.  They want that solo play experiance without having to be exposed to negative interaction of the PVP crowd.  This is a barrier to them ever sending you a /tell.  They want thier 3 hours a night unfettered then log to sleep for work or school.  That is the general conception of the target audiance.  Anyone that devotes themselves to improving thier character beyond finishing the final Quest is deemed Hardcore.  This is a concept that is beyond the pratical PVPer.  They don't see themselves as a niche demographic because the masses never come to boards like this and post about it.  Why make themselves exposed on 2 fronts (game and forums)?

 

Yes, I do like to PvP. (to answer your question :) )

 

It is a fact that BioWare has looked to advice regarding PvP from Mythic, largely appreciated as pretty well versed when it comes to the PvP aspect of MMO's (due to DAoC and some would argue WAR, too, though that game has a host of other problems). This gives me personally a glimmer of hope that PvP will not be just a slapped-on system that doesn't make much sense. 

 

Personally, yes, I love to PvP. I also love to experience a story. And i cannot for the life of me, imagine why this would be such a problem. And even if it were, if it were as you said, then those people have other options, don#t they. PvP is one aspect that's been confirmed. There are Raids, and there is the story. There will most likely be social hubs as well if you want to get into RP (the cantina in one of the screenshots comes to mind). 

 

What the game won't be (probably) is fully open, FFA PvP and I think -that- is what most of the people you describe want to avoid. 

Agree,

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Vrazule

I'm getting really tired of nerds who depend on game mechanics to force people to socialize and I'm really getting sick of people who think grouping is the end all, be all, social mechanic.

You people are sad and pathetic and need to grow up.

 

OK, lets look at this another way.  What is in this game that requires me to interact with you?  Is there PVP? Yes  Is there Crafting? Yes (albeit what system, no one knows)  Is there an Entertainer system?  What makes interacting with you, for the games sake, at all required?

If your a Star Wars fan and I am to, great.  We have something in common and that should be enough.  If your a MMO vet, and I am to then that might have wieght also.  We then converse about our like interests.  What if you hate Star Wars and don't care for MMO players?  You then have nothing to share with this MMO community of significate note.  But, what encourages cooperative play in this game?  I can only note one mention in helping fellow players to earn quicker "progress".

 

See the two red insertions. 

 

I'd like to add that they also mentioned there will be "raids" (though in what fashion and form, no one knows yet). So there's PvP and Raiding which actually -requires- other players, no? 

 

And that leaves out the pure social aspect of people simply getting together to play together because it is fun. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because the Dev's opted to give you a chance to do nearly anything solo. 

 

-OPTION- being the operative word here.

Singsofdeath, do you PVP?
 

If so, great, I have no prob with that.  However, the direct market that this game is trying to appeal to does not.  They want that solo play experiance without having to be exposed to negative interaction of the PVP crowd.  This is a barrier to them ever sending you a /tell.  They want thier 3 hours a night unfettered then log to sleep for work or school.  That is the general conception of the target audiance.  Anyone that devotes themselves to improving thier character beyond finishing the final Quest is deemed Hardcore.  This is a concept that is beyond the pratical PVPer.  They don't see themselves as a niche demographic because the masses never come to boards like this and post about it.  Why make themselves exposed on 2 fronts (game and forums)?

I think what we have here are the frustrations of SWG vets and other jaded MMO old timers coming out on a game that is obviously not their thing. They want a sandbox game so badly that it hurts but nobody will make it. And when they do (darkfall) its not good enough for them.

Honestly, BioWare is going after the community that will make them the most money, the same people that buy their single player RPGs. This is a sound marketing strategy and with their talent they will create one hell of a game. And you people bashing it why? If they did not claim it was an MMO would  you still bash it?

They have stated that each class' story line will be twice as long as a single play through of kotor. So lets say the average playthrough of Kotor is 30 hours. Thats 60 hours per class x 8 classes = 480 hours of gameplay. Now add in PvP, raiding, socializing and crafting  you can easily have 800- infinity hours. But lets say you only get 800 hours out of it and only play 8 hours a day (which is a lot if you have a job).  800 total hours/8 hours per day = 100 days or 3 and a half months.

I would think, in a story driven MMOG, that they could have new content out for you to devour in 3 and a half months as Turbine does it with LoTRO. With the way the hero engine works its possible they could add 10 hours of gameplay for each class within that time and hell, if they make it episodic, they could realease the game with new content ready for the next 6 months like TV shows do.

In conclusion, I am sorry that the sandbox MMO is dead (I would like one too) but the constant whining and bitching about  "theme park" MMOs is getting really old. SW:TOR looks to be something different and I, for one, am excited that SW:TOR will be an  MMO with a lot of great story content and the OPTION to group, raid, PvP, craft.....................Wait why is this not considered an MMO again?

Originally posted by BioNut

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Vrazule

I'm getting really tired of nerds who depend on game mechanics to force people to socialize and I'm really getting sick of people who think grouping is the end all, be all, social mechanic.

You people are sad and pathetic and need to grow up.

 

OK, lets look at this another way.  What is in this game that requires me to interact with you?  Is there PVP? Yes  Is there Crafting? Yes (albeit what system, no one knows)  Is there an Entertainer system?  What makes interacting with you, for the games sake, at all required?

If your a Star Wars fan and I am to, great.  We have something in common and that should be enough.  If your a MMO vet, and I am to then that might have wieght also.  We then converse about our like interests.  What if you hate Star Wars and don't care for MMO players?  You then have nothing to share with this MMO community of significate note.  But, what encourages cooperative play in this game?  I can only note one mention in helping fellow players to earn quicker "progress".

 

See the two red insertions. 

 

I'd like to add that they also mentioned there will be "raids" (though in what fashion and form, no one knows yet). So there's PvP and Raiding which actually -requires- other players, no? 

 

And that leaves out the pure social aspect of people simply getting together to play together because it is fun. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because the Dev's opted to give you a chance to do nearly anything solo. 

 

-OPTION- being the operative word here.

Singsofdeath, do you PVP?
 

If so, great, I have no prob with that.  However, the direct market that this game is trying to appeal to does not.  They want that solo play experiance without having to be exposed to negative interaction of the PVP crowd.  This is a barrier to them ever sending you a /tell.  They want thier 3 hours a night unfettered then log to sleep for work or school.  That is the general conception of the target audiance.  Anyone that devotes themselves to improving thier character beyond finishing the final Quest is deemed Hardcore.  This is a concept that is beyond the pratical PVPer.  They don't see themselves as a niche demographic because the masses never come to boards like this and post about it.  Why make themselves exposed on 2 fronts (game and forums)?

 

I think what we have here are the frustrations of SWG vets and other jaded MMO old timers coming out on a game that is obviously not their thing. They want a sandbox game so badly that it hurts but nobody will make it. And when they do (darkfall) its not good enough for them.

Honestly, BioWare is going after the community that will make them the most money, the same people that buy their single player RPGs. This is a sound marketing strategy and with their talent they will create one hell of a game. And you people bashing it why? If they did not claim it was an MMO would  you still bash it?

They have stated that each class' story line will be twice as long as a single play through of kotor. So lets say the average playthrough of Kotor is 30 hours. Thats 60 hours per class x 8 classes = 480 hours of gameplay. Now add in PvP, raiding, socializing and crafting  you can easily have 800- infinity hours. But lets say you only get 800 hours out of it and only play 8 hours a day (which is a lot if you have a job).  800 total hours/8 hours per day = 100 days or 3 and a half months.

I would think, in a story driven MMOG, that they could have new content out for you to devour in 3 and a half months as Turbine does it with LoTRO. With the way the hero engine works its possible they could add 10 hours of gameplay for each class within that time and hell, if they make it episodic, they could realease the game with new content ready for the next 6 months like TV shows do.

 

In conclusion, I am sorry that the sandbox MMO is dead (I would like one too) but the constant whining and bitching about  "theme park" MMOs is getting really old. SW:TOR looks to be something different and I, for one, am excited that SW:TOR will be an  MMO with a lot of great story content and the OPTION to group, raid, PvP, craft.....................Wait why is this not considered an MMO again?

BioNut

I neither attack or condem TOR as a MMO.  I simply ask the questions that many want to know of the games mechanics.  As to my fustrations from SWG, that is so 2005.  I am over it and still play the game it is today.  What I caution is to keep expectations low to Bioware's first MMO with the constraints that LEC has placed on it.

Don't be such a "BioNut" to not ask why is this game not fun for X reason? 

Originally posted by Troneas

progression, as the OP pointed out, is not a pillar. progression is the evolution of the character by means of content, which is hereby represented by "pillars": such as combat, exploration, crafting (not included in bioware's "pillars"), questing (or story-telling as they prefer) and community. As such, progression is not content, but rather the result of content.

in essence then, bioware has three pillars (unless they include progressive crafting); and rather than having "an extra pillar" which they so proudly announce, they are missing two (community and crafting).

If you don't progress in any way the game gets boring after a while.

That is the reason I quited Guildwars, great game and played it for a year but my character was more or less stuck at the same place after a few weeks.

Sometime you do need to evolve your character and find some nice loot or the game will just start to get boring, or feel like a FPS game. Don't missunderstan me here, you shouldn't play just to get another level, skill or piece of gear but sometimes you need a reward, sometimes your character needs to change a little bit, learn something new.

I don't actually think this MMO will be great with MMO players, it will instead bring in new players into the genre like Wow did. Wow did get a lot of old Diablo 1&2 players into the genre, this game will get a lot of Bioware players into it.

I like Bioware game so I will most likely love it but others don't. If you 10 years ago hated Baldurs gate and loved Diablo you are most likely not going to like this game, no game is for everyone.

But it is all well and fine, we do need more games that differs from eachother or the genre dies with Wow. If this game is not your cup of tea, the World of darkness online or Guildwars 2 might work for you instead. No need to trash a game because you don't like it's core, just aim for something more to your taste.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by BioNut

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Vrazule

I'm getting really tired of nerds who depend on game mechanics to force people to socialize and I'm really getting sick of people who think grouping is the end all, be all, social mechanic.

You people are sad and pathetic and need to grow up.

 

OK, lets look at this another way.  What is in this game that requires me to interact with you?  Is there PVP? Yes  Is there Crafting? Yes (albeit what system, no one knows)  Is there an Entertainer system?  What makes interacting with you, for the games sake, at all required?

If your a Star Wars fan and I am to, great.  We have something in common and that should be enough.  If your a MMO vet, and I am to then that might have wieght also.  We then converse about our like interests.  What if you hate Star Wars and don't care for MMO players?  You then have nothing to share with this MMO community of significate note.  But, what encourages cooperative play in this game?  I can only note one mention in helping fellow players to earn quicker "progress".

 

See the two red insertions. 

 

I'd like to add that they also mentioned there will be "raids" (though in what fashion and form, no one knows yet). So there's PvP and Raiding which actually -requires- other players, no? 

 

And that leaves out the pure social aspect of people simply getting together to play together because it is fun. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch because the Dev's opted to give you a chance to do nearly anything solo. 

 

-OPTION- being the operative word here.

Singsofdeath, do you PVP?
 

If so, great, I have no prob with that.  However, the direct market that this game is trying to appeal to does not.  They want that solo play experiance without having to be exposed to negative interaction of the PVP crowd.  This is a barrier to them ever sending you a /tell.  They want thier 3 hours a night unfettered then log to sleep for work or school.  That is the general conception of the target audiance.  Anyone that devotes themselves to improving thier character beyond finishing the final Quest is deemed Hardcore.  This is a concept that is beyond the pratical PVPer.  They don't see themselves as a niche demographic because the masses never come to boards like this and post about it.  Why make themselves exposed on 2 fronts (game and forums)?

 

I think what we have here are the frustrations of SWG vets and other jaded MMO old timers coming out on a game that is obviously not their thing. They want a sandbox game so badly that it hurts but nobody will make it. And when they do (darkfall) its not good enough for them.

Honestly, BioWare is going after the community that will make them the most money, the same people that buy their single player RPGs. This is a sound marketing strategy and with their talent they will create one hell of a game. And you people bashing it why? If they did not claim it was an MMO would  you still bash it?

They have stated that each class' story line will be twice as long as a single play through of kotor. So lets say the average playthrough of Kotor is 30 hours. Thats 60 hours per class x 8 classes = 480 hours of gameplay. Now add in PvP, raiding, socializing and crafting  you can easily have 800- infinity hours. But lets say you only get 800 hours out of it and only play 8 hours a day (which is a lot if you have a job).  800 total hours/8 hours per day = 100 days or 3 and a half months.

I would think, in a story driven MMOG, that they could have new content out for you to devour in 3 and a half months as Turbine does it with LoTRO. With the way the hero engine works its possible they could add 10 hours of gameplay for each class within that time and hell, if they make it episodic, they could realease the game with new content ready for the next 6 months like TV shows do.

 

In conclusion, I am sorry that the sandbox MMO is dead (I would like one too) but the constant whining and bitching about  "theme park" MMOs is getting really old. SW:TOR looks to be something different and I, for one, am excited that SW:TOR will be an  MMO with a lot of great story content and the OPTION to group, raid, PvP, craft.....................Wait why is this not considered an MMO again?

 

BioNut

I neither attack or condem TOR as a MMO.  I simply ask the questions that many want to know of the games mechanics.  As to my fustrations from SWG, that is so 2005.  I am over it and still play the game it is today.  What I caution is to keep expectations low to Bioware's first MMO with the constraints that LEC has placed on it.

Don't be such a "BioNut" to not ask why is this game not fun for X reason? 

Haha, my name is BioNut because I was a Biology major in college and I love the field. It, just so, happens that I enjoy BioWare games as well.

As for many of peoples concerns for this game, I believe the interview linked in this thread goes a long way to calm them.

They talk about how they don't want to be super instanced like guild wars. Only that they want the special story moments to be private to you (see LoTRO).

They also discussed how the lead world designer is really into raiding. So you can bet that will be there. PvP is still under raps but it has been confirmed to be in.

On top of all of that, they have stated the reason why they don't discuss endgame stuff is because it is already expected to be in the game. BioWare's big thing with this game is story. It is what they are doing different. There will be time to discuss the standard MMO stuff in the future but right now they are riding their "delta".