Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Phry 

it means the game world should be detailed and original. doh.. you fail.. generally..

I'm going to be generous and assume that's parody.

 

Originally posted by Phry 

a game world/universe etc, is important, its not just a colourful background after all. imo, a good mmo is one that provides you with the tools to create, maybe its because im an eve player. .. we dont accept sub standards.. in anything ;D

 

The only excitement in EVE occurs on their forums.

you have strange tastes then. But, i do realise that the game itself is somewhat challenging, dont feel discouraged if you werent up to it. ;D

WTF does EvE have to do with SWTOR? there are no comparisions? and Nothing exciting ever happens in EvE except the forums? You are obviously not an eve player to say so. I have NEVER had more fun playing an MMO than I have playing eve.

I have battled GODS were you cats couldn't even damage pawns!!  the game is what you make of it....and your not trying.

I am sure that SWTOR is going to be an awsome game and a big hit. because it will be another wow clone

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Phry 

it means the game world should be detailed and original. doh.. you fail.. generally..

I'm going to be generous and assume that's parody.

 

Originally posted by Phry 

a game world/universe etc, is important, its not just a colourful background after all. imo, a good mmo is one that provides you with the tools to create, maybe its because im an eve player. .. we dont accept sub standards.. in anything ;D

 

The only excitement in EVE occurs on their forums.

you have strange tastes then. But, i do realise that the game itself is somewhat challenging, dont feel discouraged if you werent up to it. ;D

Challenging? Which part was challenging? Obsessing over local chat, hitting orbit and F1-F8, or logging in at 3am to setup your next skill to train?

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by stillkillin

Originally posted by tillamook

You know what? What may be different about the stories in TOR is this…. I think they are aiming to really provoke emotion in these stories to steer your decisions in this game. Wouldn't surprise me if they convinced the docs to hire a psychologist, since they hinted at a certain type of “research, and thought study” going into this game well before we heard it was TOR. I thought that was strange when I heard it.

What if there were at least a few parts of your story arc where you go "WTF?" And you may even feel sadness, happiness, anger, fear, humor in an MMO story. When is the last time you felt that type of emotion in an MMO? Or any game for that mater? Was it as good as it could have been? Perhaps playing a BioWare game? Imagine the possibilities. It’ll be interesting to see if they pull this off. If you get pas the mechanical aspects of game grinding and pew pewing you may actually feel immersed.

That’s the problem with gamers these days, they never take enough time to slow down and actually enjoy a game and its plot the way it was meant to be enjoyed, unless you are forced, or steered. BioWare will force you to slow down by making decisions in the game mater because they can actually effect you long term.
 

 

you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning

people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight

people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground

bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game

we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long

Is there a way to nominate a post for most delusional of the year?

And I've said it before, if these game mechanics keep players like this away, then count me in.

+1

I have had enough of players like this one to last me a lifetime.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/208-Eve-Online

"...it's a glorified space-themed chat room for the nerds who are to nerds what nerds are to normal people."

Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw, 2008

Originally posted by Moirae

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by stillkillin

Originally posted by tillamook

You know what? What may be different about the stories in TOR is this…. I think they are aiming to really provoke emotion in these stories to steer your decisions in this game. Wouldn't surprise me if they convinced the docs to hire a psychologist, since they hinted at a certain type of “research, and thought study” going into this game well before we heard it was TOR. I thought that was strange when I heard it.

What if there were at least a few parts of your story arc where you go "WTF?" And you may even feel sadness, happiness, anger, fear, humor in an MMO story. When is the last time you felt that type of emotion in an MMO? Or any game for that mater? Was it as good as it could have been? Perhaps playing a BioWare game? Imagine the possibilities. It’ll be interesting to see if they pull this off. If you get pas the mechanical aspects of game grinding and pew pewing you may actually feel immersed.

That’s the problem with gamers these days, they never take enough time to slow down and actually enjoy a game and its plot the way it was meant to be enjoyed, unless you are forced, or steered. BioWare will force you to slow down by making decisions in the game mater because they can actually effect you long term.
 

 

you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning

people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight

people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground

bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game

we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long

Is there a way to nominate a post for most delusional of the year?

And I've said it before, if these game mechanics keep players like this away, then count me in.

+1

 

I have had enough of players like this one to last me a lifetime.

... how fun a game is, isnt dependant on winning at something.. losing can be fun too.. and any game that relies on pvp for motivation solely is probably going to get boring fast...have a hard time believing that the swg comment was a serious one, (i hope it wasnt) on second thoughts i'll add another vote for the most delusional post of the year award.. i believe he's earned it.

Originally posted by stillkillin

you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning

people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight

people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground

bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game

we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long

Wow. I guess YOU really don't get it. Bioware owes no one anything, much less some self-important random breather with way too many imaginary friends. Why do people watch movies? Story. Why do people read books? Story. Why do gamers play games? One of 2 reasons 1. Mindless entertainment while waiting for something else in their lives, and 2. Story. So if a game actually pays attention to top notch story telling, that is a huge thing. To make the playerbase actually pay attention to the story as well, well that is just epic.

Yes, I too am a pre-nge/cu vet, and while I may agree with many that Smedley is the worst that could have ever happened to the game, I also long ago realized--- GET OVER IT. This sense of entitlement that you and your "250k" imaginary friends, of a completely seperate company, with a completely different product, is ridiculous. You will not take down Bioware. The only ones that will take down Bioware, is Bioware. You are just another random snot nosed brat that is better /ignored. If the idea of a descent story in a game scares you THAT bad, then I am more than happy to lock the door to keep you from crashing the party. 

Originally posted by Vrazule

I'm really getting tired of you grouping fanatics and your baselss assumptions about human behavior.  There are two popular games out there that offer a substantial amount of solo content, World of Warcraft and City of Heroes.  Yet there is a lot of grouping going on in these games even though it isn't forced.  People group, solo, craft, raid, socialize and what not and it's their choice to do so.  Stop tyring to pass off grouping as the only legitimate and worthwhile play style. 

Sometimes I get the strong impression that the grouper's agenda is to squash any ability to solo or at least relegate it to a worthless activity.  Stop blaming soloers for your insecurities.  Bioware intends to have a very casual friendly, solo friendly game. Stop griping about it and move on to a game that caters to you.

By the way, deceit implies false information was purposefully released and that is definitely not the case.  They can release game play details whenever the heck they want to and are not beholden to anyone on when that will be.  They have backed up every deatail released so far and your conspiracy theory is completely unfounded.

Agree 100%. No false details have been released by Bioware as of yet. When its ready we will hear about it. If you cant be patient and trust Bioware of all companys then you should probably find a diffrent hobby instead of gaming. PvP,crafting,socializing is all going to be in game Bioware is just wants to get it right the first time.

Originally posted by Kainis

Originally posted by stillkillin

you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning

people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight

people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground

bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game

we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long

 

Wow. I guess YOU really don't get it. Bioware owes no one anything, much less some self-important random breather with way too many imaginary friends. Why do people watch movies? Story. Why do people read books? Story. Why do gamers play games? One of 2 reasons 1. Mindless entertainment while waiting for something else in their lives, and 2. Story. So if a game actually pays attention to top notch story telling, that is a huge thing. To make the playerbase actually pay attention to the story as well, well that is just epic.

Yes, I too am a pre-nge/cu vet, and while I may agree with many that Smedley is the worst that could have ever happened to the game, I also long ago realized--- GET OVER IT. This sense of entitlement that you and your "250k" imaginary friends, of a completely seperate company, with a completely different product, is ridiculous. You will not take down Bioware. The only ones that will take down Bioware, is Bioware. You are just another random snot nosed brat that is better /ignored. If the idea of a descent story in a game scares you THAT bad, then I am more than happy to lock the door to keep you from crashing the party. 

How could you /ignore someone that posts this kind of gold??  Are you crazy?  This is the beauty of forums!  =)

Originally posted by hubertgrove

Originally posted by Embry77

 

Agree 100%. No false details have been released by Bioware as of yet that I know of. When its ready we will hear about it probably after I have just bought the game for fifty bucks. If you cant be patient and trust Bioware of all companys - because you should always trust a company that is trying to get money out of you -  then you should probably find a diffrent hobby instead of gaming. PvP,crafting,socializing is all going to be in game - and it will be just the way you want it too, I know this because it's in my head.  Bioware is just wants to get it right the first time. - Why can't you leave Britney aloooooooone!

 

Fixed to bring into line with reality.

Fortunately the rest of us are not required to live in the "reality" that you have developed in your head.

Reality: Nobody knows of any false details, and Bioware has a very good record of delivery on their promises. 

Reality: There will be plenty of opportunities to learn more about the game long before you put down 50 bucks to play it.

Reality: Yes, you can pretend that all companies are evil and just trying to steal your money, and I'm sure you'll enjoy your paranoid fantasies.  As for the rest of us, Bioware is a company that has earned trust in the eyes of many players.

Reality: We don't know the details of PvP, crafting, socializing, etc.  And the rest of us are intelligent enough to wait for details rather than latch onto ignorant opinions.

Reality:  I prefer the Britney "chick" to your whining any day.

Originally posted by spdkilla

Originally posted by Anubisan

I have and I believe your fears are not justified. Bioware is one of the best gaming companies in existence and if there is one thing you can be sure of, it is that they do their homework. Every game this company makes is polished and of great quality. They have no doubt spent countless hours thinking about their game and the MMORPG genre as a whole. They would not be so stupid as to jump into a new genre without fully understanding the necessary components inherent in it and planning accordingly. The company is full of people who are gamers themselves and they understand what makes a game great.

Now before I write a novel replying to your post, I will close by saying this: Have faith! Bioware will not let you down.

  very good post (up until the last bit there highlighted). A big Bioware fan are we?   We have only been fed bits and pieces of the full game. It is too soon to freak out one way or the other. I doubt that most of the game is even coded yet. Wait till open beta then rant as much as you want.

      You can start writing your rant early and have a very polished and internet ready tirade by launch... Or you can just take it easy and like the rest of us wait for more info to be released till we have a nearly complete picture of the entire game. Which would include the skill system, quest system, leveling, pvp, raiding, crafting, pve, and the combat mechanics videos, as well as interviews and gamplay write-ups along with impressions from testers and reviewers alike.

      I would suggest at that point getting into OB even if you have to pay 5$ at EB/Gamestop for a pre-order. Then you can try it for yourself then you can have 1st hand info on how things did or didn't work. Then at least you can have something substantial to base your feelings and opinions on.

To sum up my opinion : Way Too Early for this thread topic.

 

/carry on

I am a huge Bioware fan and I will admit that from the beginning. However, I think the majority of the points I made in my post were not from that perspective, but rather a critical analysis of the information at hand thus far. While I personally believe that Bioware makes all around great games, they have never made an MMORPG. For this reason, I too was a bit skeptical at first regarding this game. Fortunately everything I have read about it makes me more positive and excited.

I do agree with your post though. It is still much too early for any of us to start any informed arguments about how this game will be when released. There simply has not been enough information released yet. I am just of the opinion that (so far) things are looking good...

 As far as the story theme goes - all seems well and good.  UNTIL the cheat sites get a hold of it. Then every storyline arc, decisions and outcomes will be posted on Allakazam, etc. The walkthroughs will allow players to rifle through to their desired outcome. Then the powerlevelers will post on forums with Age of Conan syndrome. No content! No content!

So how can Bioware keep up with this potential problem?

Originally posted by fansede

 As far as the story theme goes - all seems well and good.  UNTIL the cheat sites get a hold of it. Then every storyline arc, decisions and outcomes will be posted on Allakazam, etc. The walkthroughs will allow players to rifle through to their desired outcome. Then the powerlevelers will post on forums with Age of Conan syndrome. No content! No content!

So how can Bioware keep up with this potential problem?

Why should Bioware bother?

If a player is hell bent on cheating themselves out of content, that's their cross to bear.

Originally posted by fansede

 As far as the story theme goes - all seems well and good.  UNTIL the cheat sites get a hold of it. Then every storyline arc, decisions and outcomes will be posted on Allakazam, etc. The walkthroughs will allow players to rifle through to their desired outcome. Then the powerlevelers will post on forums with Age of Conan syndrome. No content! No content!

So how can Bioware keep up with this potential problem?

This is not a problem that you can peg on this game exclusively. -EVERY- game out there, no matter what system they use will have that effect sooner or later. Make it a sandbox and NO quests whatsoever, the sites will tell you the best grind-spots, and best loot. Make it a skill-based world, the sites will tell you the best skill combinations to -WTFPWN- in PvP or PvE. 

So this is hardly a concern that can be brought up only to this game. Every MMO will have this symptom. Nothing you can do about it, period.

 While that is true, my concern is that the main emphasis (or at least their emphasis) is the story.  If you plan on having 100 hours of gameplay from story content, walkthrough sites will trim this down a lot. In other MMOs you had to deal with the kill quests, the crafting recipes, the delivery missions, raids , etc. We all complained about them at one time or another, but we didn't run to these sites everytime because we knew what to do already. 

As others have said, we are speculating. However, if Bioware makes a level 1-50 tortage and puts the rest of the game as an afterthought or banks on additional content will keep up with the players.. I just worry..

Originally posted by fansede

 While that is true, my concern is that the main emphasis (or at least their emphasis) is the story.  If you plan on having 100 hours of gameplay from story content, walkthrough sites will trim this down a lot. In other MMOs you had to deal with the kill quests, the crafting recipes, the delivery missions, raids , etc. We all complained about them at one time or another, but we didn't run to these sites everytime because we knew what to do already. 

As others have said, we are speculating. However, if Bioware makes a level 1-50 tortage and puts the rest of the game as an afterthought or banks on additional content will keep up with the players.. I just worry..

We share a worry then. While I am pretty confident that BiOWare can deliver an excellent story, even hundreds of hours worth of story for every class, if they just add the rest of the game as an afterthought, that is going to be bad. 

If they pay equal attention to their stories -and- the endgame, then things should work out fine. You eliminate the grind from leveling (or cover it up in a nice story) and at the end of it, you can go into the end-game or play a new character, whatever you feel like. This would be, in my personal opinion, the best outcome. 

But I'm worried that they might not put much thought into the raids/PvP aspect of the game as they should. Hoping those worried will be alleviated when they choose to share that sort of information. 

Deceit? Hardly. Marketing departments of Bioware and Lucasarts simply focus on the difference between SW:TOR and current MMO's. Using those as selling points. I mean whats the use in telling potential customers that this MMO will have some similar features as the existing ones? This doesnt mean that besides the story, the rest of the game is so much different then existing MMO's. I just hope that the story part and replayability from the class related quests, will make me enjoy the MMO longer.

Also its easier to show a little lore and some art at early stages. Gameplay takes longer to develop. Showing that at early stage might give a wrong first impression. Which can be very bad for the rep of an upcoming game.

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by fansede

 As far as the story theme goes - all seems well and good.  UNTIL the cheat sites get a hold of it. Then every storyline arc, decisions and outcomes will be posted on Allakazam, etc. The walkthroughs will allow players to rifle through to their desired outcome. Then the powerlevelers will post on forums with Age of Conan syndrome. No content! No content!

So how can Bioware keep up with this potential problem?

Why should Bioware bother?

If a player is hell bent on cheating themselves out of content, that's their cross to bear.

Yeah, there cheats for every game. Some like spoilers, others hate them. I rarely bother unless I’m stumped on one part for more then a day. One thing BioWare may do is make some of the puzzles complex enough to the point where even the cheats are hard to understand. I can think of one puzzle in KOTOR in particular where the solution was just as confusing as just figuring it out.

What I’m getting, and based on KOTOR, is that there is risk and reward for each path, so really you come out ahead, or behind depending on how you look at it. Doing a bad thing may give you instant gratification, but the end result will have some risk, or it may flip, instant risk, long term gratification. It will be kinda like KOTOR, with less linear feel. If folks wanna bypass that, then by all means go ahead. You aren’t really gaining or losing anything except the surprises they toss in. I’ll choose to play it with few spoilers.
 

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Why should Bioware bother?

If a player is hell bent on cheating themselves out of content, that's their cross to bear.

Abosolutely, Bioware should in no way, shape or form cater to the folks the powerlevelers and the like. They are like a disease on the MMO community. 

Originally posted by mantii

Originally posted by Elikal

Ok right ahead: I am very serious with this, and I dont intend to provoke you, but this is the result of weeks and months of thinking and following news and info, and I would really be interested in your (thoughtful) critique.

Here comes the thesis first: Bioware is either deceiting themselves about what a success SWTOR can be, OR they are deceiving us about the nature of the game.

 

Now to the analysis. I will try to keep it a brief as possible. I hope I dont create loopholes by shortage, but I may add to it, if some parts are unclear.

I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1.

I read about this far. The main reason I only read this far is because reading your sentences is like having trying to piece together a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots where there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or there, or that you meant to spell this a word correctly. Spelling and grammar are is important because it they helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this, I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language,  nor is it an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. The Next time you want to make a serious post, please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and using proper language and grammar skills so that your meaning is clear putting in words where they should be. 

 

 

A word of unsolicited advice:  if you are going to attempt to be a grammar nazi, please have the courtesy to use proper grammar yourself.

This message has been brought to you by a real grammar nazi, one who understands that not everyone who posts on internet forums is a native English-speaker...and that even many people who are native English-speakers are capable of butchering the English language, as you yourself have so brilliantly proven.