I have to stop using words like "homogeniety".  I try to take part, and I get ignored because I used a word that started with "homo".

Originally posted by madeux

I think there is a direct correlation between a users age and his opinion posted in this thread.  The younger (less experience, more naive) the poster is, the more likely he is to think this is a super rad idea!

Incorrect.  Age-correlated, yes.  But it's only those of us who grew up during the 80s who are likely to call an idea "rad".   :P

(or is "rad" coming back in style?  I have been using it a bit more often lately just for kicks ;)  I assumed I was being predictably silly and old, like the adults when I was growing up who used the word "groovy".)

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by madeux

I think there is a direct correlation between a users age and his opinion posted in this thread.  The younger (less experience, more naive) the poster is, the more likely he is to think this is a super rad idea!

Incorrect.  Age-correlated, yes.  But it's only those of us who grew up during the 80s who are likely to call an idea "rad".   :P

(or is "rad" coming back in style?  I have been using it a bit more often lately just for kicks ;)  I assumed I was being predictably silly and old, like the adults when I was growing up who used the word "groovy".)

If this is how the comment style on this topic is supposed to be, then let me say that the idea to form a "Gamer's Union" needs a FORK!  FORK!  FORK!

Originally posted by madeux

The idea of putting everyone into two groups seems to be naive and indicates that you have not spent a lot of time reading these forums.  Opinions and tastes are far too varying to be lumped up like that.

The other problem is that these forums do not represent the market as a whole.  Developers want games that will make them money, not games that will cater to a few losers who insist on calling themselves hardcore in order to make up for insecurities relating to their small penis size.

Well I'm getting opinions. I don't think that starting a flame is going to help Madeux. And the only one to mention penis size so far is you. So I'm beginning to understand your insecurities. Thank you for sharing that with all of us Mad, I'm sure we'll all be very sensitive to your needs. I'm sure SOMEWHERE they make millimeter condoms for millimeter peters

My first motion for the Gamer's Union is for the ejection of anyone who disagrees with my view of how MMORPGs should on the ground that they are not True Gamers and therefore do not belong in the Union.

Originally posted by Torik

My first motion for the Gamer's Union is for the ejection of anyone who disagrees with my view of how MMORPGs should on the ground that they are not True Gamers and therefore do not belong in the Union.

Excellent paradox ;)

Originally posted by SimperFi

ok fair enough, I appreciate the criticism. I'm just hearing peoples' opinions so I'm not saying I'm starting this yet or anything like that. I just heard it and wanted to hear what other people think.


And don't governments speak for all people? With so many voices in a crowded room, it can be very helpful to have one, concise, strong and clear voice rather than a rampant mess of things.


But as I said the criticism is welcome, let's hear what others think.

 

I'll speak up on the government part first.  The answer is no.  The government doesn't speak for everyone, it just happens to be a controlling body that gets heard.  Some may argue that it's  the same thing, but the truth is, dissent only lasts so long before it foments into something worse.

 

I know of several people in the last US election who indicated that if one candidate one, they were moving to Canada.  This also pertains to that in that some people do not agree with the government in the slightest, however for financial and economic reasons, they cannot remove themselves FROM that government.  I think in many cases it's a similar situation in MMOs, where trends occur and the gamers are unable to do anything about them because the trends exist across multiple MMOs.  This leaves the gamers in a position of either not playing at all, or deciding which MMO has the lesser amount of evils to contend with that will impact their gameplay negatively.

 

Insofar as a Gamer's Union..it's just not going to go very far.  The reason for that is multifold.  First, you have no leverage and won't against big-name companies, such as SOE, or Blizzard, because these companies operate on the fast-food employee principle.  Turnover is high, but that's fine because you've spent cash for at least one month, and the moment you leave, some new player is going to subscribe for the first time to take your place.  This is indicative of why you hear in many MMOs that all the "veterans" have gone.  The game has turned into a cycling turnstile of players, with only a small contingent that either like the MMO with changes as it currently stands, or are simply hoping for better days and weathering it out while potentially looking for another MMO themselves.

By leverage, I mean the capacity to impact their decisions to MMOs currently in production, or those already gone to retail.  Short of possibly..and this is tentative at best, but short of potentially producing such a mass amount of negative feedback for a game that it makes a noticable decrease in profits, then the only thing you could do would be to provide a "hang-out" for any developer that might come along and whatever gamers come along that are interested in this "hang-out".  And likely, if you were to create that amount of negative feedback anyway, they aren't going to change their minds, they're simply going to have their attorneys call you, or go ahead with legal action.  

 

Until such a point occurs that a official body comes into existence that regulates MMOs with the power to actually apply sanctions against MMO companies utilizing unfair or disreputable business practices, and with the nod to the fact that this official body will have the consumers' (read: gamers) interest in mind, it's pretty much a pipe-dream, at very best.

The idea is nice, but the idea of unionizing any particular set of interests requires that those that run said union are impartial to making decisions based off the feed back of mature and well thought out ideas, that being said; "impartial", "mature", and "well thought out" are traites very few community active gamers posess.

Originally posted by CulannHS

Originally posted by SimperFi

ok fair enough, I appreciate the criticism. I'm just hearing peoples' opinions so I'm not saying I'm starting this yet or anything like that. I just heard it and wanted to hear what other people think.


And don't governments speak for all people? With so many voices in a crowded room, it can be very helpful to have one, concise, strong and clear voice rather than a rampant mess of things.


But as I said the criticism is welcome, let's hear what others think.

 

I'll speak up on the government part first.  The answer is no.  The government doesn't speak for everyone, it just happens to be a controlling body that gets heard.  Some may argue that it's  the same thing, but the truth is, dissent only lasts so long before it foments into something worse.

 

I know of several people in the last US election who indicated that if one candidate one, they were moving to Canada.  This also pertains to that in that some people do not agree with the government in the slightest, however for financial and economic reasons, they cannot remove themselves FROM that government.  I think in many cases it's a similar situation in MMOs, where trends occur and the gamers are unable to do anything about them because the trends exist across multiple MMOs.  This leaves the gamers in a position of either not playing at all, or deciding which MMO has the lesser amount of evils to contend with that will impact their gameplay negatively.

 

Insofar as a Gamer's Union..it's just not going to go very far.  The reason for that is multifold.  First, you have no leverage and won't against big-name companies, such as SOE, or Blizzard, because these companies operate on the fast-food employee principle.  Turnover is high, but that's fine because you've spent cash for at least one month, and the moment you leave, some new player is going to subscribe for the first time to take your place.  This is indicative of why you hear in many MMOs that all the "veterans" have gone.  The game has turned into a cycling turnstile of players, with only a small contingent that either like the MMO with changes as it currently stands, or are simply hoping for better days and weathering it out while potentially looking for another MMO themselves.

By leverage, I mean the capacity to impact their decisions to MMOs currently in production, or those already gone to retail.  Short of possibly..and this is tentative at best, but short of potentially producing such a mass amount of negative feedback for a game that it makes a noticable decrease in profits, then the only thing you could do would be to provide a "hang-out" for any developer that might come along and whatever gamers come along that are interested in this "hang-out".  And likely, if you were to create that amount of negative feedback anyway, they aren't going to change their minds, they're simply going to have their attorneys call you, or go ahead with legal action.  

 

Until such a point occurs that a official body comes into existence that regulates MMOs with the power to actually apply sanctions against MMO companies utilizing unfair or disreputable business practices, and with the nod to the fact that this official body will have the consumers' (read: gamers) interest in mind, it's pretty much a pipe-dream, at very best.

 

That was very well-written. So let me get one part straight. If I (and this gamer's union, should it be formed) were to give negative feedback to a company that isn't supposed to care in the first place, then they will sue me? Or worse? Quite frankly, if it ever reached that point, I assure you attorneys would do them no good. Words would become a thing of the past.

And as far as the government thing, fair enough that's your opinion and probably the opinion of others. But that does seem to be how it plays out with MMO's and I would like to change that. In the end, if a gaming company sued me for sharing my opinion  about their faulty product, I'd laugh. Because I'd never even BE ABLE to give them any money if I even wanted to. and secondly, they'd have to sue every website like this one or any author of review articles.

Originally posted by AllNewMMOSuk

Originally posted by SimperFi

Originally posted by AllNewMMOSuk

A gamer's union is a terrible idea and game companies won't listen to such a group.

 

Ok thanks, for that too 8). Maybe you can elaborate a little rather simply saying it "sucks"? Give some more constructive criticism on how it might be acomplished if one were so inclined to go about it?

 

First of all it's not like there's one type of gamer and one type of gaming style. Secondly you're not part of any gaming company so the term union makes no sense. Third it wouldn't come close to representing actual gamers, since the only people who would read about/participate in such a thing would be the same minority of gamers that post on forums, and those gamers don't even come close to representing actual gamers.

 

Most of the game companies out there are making a lot of money, because they know what they are doing. So to have some group of mostly kids sitting there and whining to them about how they want a game to work, when that group has no idea what it takes to make some of their ideas happen and how much it would actually hurt the money making process, would just irritate them or make them laugh at you.

 

If you want to change the gaming industry then get into it and make some games that you think will change everything. But don't get a group together that will whine and make all gamers look like idiots all while accomplishing nothing.

+rep if i could.

Im guessing it would mainly be the most vocal hardcore gamers whining who would ruin it all anyway. There seems to be a small knit of people who throw around the old cliches like 'living breathing world' and 'sandbox' without actually having any real idea of how it would all work or exactly what the player would be able to do.

And imagine a company did come along and take all of those ideas and put them all into a game. Would any of the whiners play it? God no, theyd all be complaining about everything and anything they could.

The general idea is nice, like a focus group for anyone to input, but it just wouldnt work.

Originally posted by gnlLucid

The idea is nice, but the idea of unionizing any particular set of interests requires that those that run said union are impartial to making decisions based off the feed back of mature and well thought out ideas, that being said; "impartial", "mature", and "well thought out" are traites very few community active gamers posess.

 

I know that all too well. Impartial is certainly not my cup of tea. And I've seen too many who lack all three.

Originally posted by SimperFi

Originally posted by Torik

My first motion for the Gamer's Union is for the ejection of anyone who disagrees with my view of how MMORPGs should on the ground that they are not True Gamers and therefore do not belong in the Union.

Excellent paradox ;)

Should my motion carry I fully expect these wannabies to try to form their own organization (probably called something like The Real Gamer's Union) and use it as a platform to besmirch my good name and character by accusing me of nonsense like using Union funds to buy that robotic Murloc or pay that hacker for the emberrissing picutures of me with said Murloc.

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by SimperFi

Originally posted by Torik

My first motion for the Gamer's Union is for the ejection of anyone who disagrees with my view of how MMORPGs should on the ground that they are not True Gamers and therefore do not belong in the Union.

Excellent paradox ;)

 

Should my motion carry I fully expect these wannabies to try to form their own organization (probably called something like The Real Gamer's Union) and use it as a platform to besmirch my good name and character by accusing me of nonsense like using Union funds to buy that robotic Murloc or pay that hacker for the emberrissing picutures of me with said Murloc.

Well now that you told everyone about the Murloc incident there's no use in paying me! 

..man I had some excellent plans for the money too... which may or may not have involved a Murloc as well.