It couldn't be more complete opposite o_o

We might begin to see some similarities once WoW stops raising the level cap though - they will stop at some point, right?

I'm saying that both games rely on the same gaming model, which I am pretty sure I clearly stated. I said nothing about "risk vs. reward" (and quite frankly I laugh at that idea too since again... the only "risk" in these games is spending more time gaining what you've lost. AKA timesink. I don't find that hard, I find it a timesink and that's all. )   WoW is more solo friendly with some group content up until end game when it becomes one of two things: PVP grind (both Arena and BG are 'group' dependant - one is static group dependant, the other is not)   and Raiding - group dependant. You can't argue with that - it's a fact.

FFXI is group depandant from level 12ish until end game, when it becomes ... yeah, the Raid grind, or a very close approximation of it. They are, in short, the same games with different ways of getting to the Raid grind that awaits. You have few choices of what you can do if you dislike the Raid grind in those games. In WoW, you can PVP-grind, make money or level an alt. In FFXI you can level a subjob or make money.  There is little innovation in these game models because at the time they released, it is what people wanted. But increasingly more gamers want something to do at endgame and during the advancement to said endgame other than grinding ceaselessly just to have the opportunity to grind some more.  In the past two or so years, there has been very little innovation or evolution in the MMO model;  gaming companies have gotten lazy.

I think the rest of my post explains in simple terms how it would be nice if SE decided not to be lazy and actually brought something fresh to the table that will appeal to a large percent of the population - both "casual" and "core"  - who are wanting something more than another endless grind for generic "rewards".

And what would that be, a non-grind that still lasts for long enough that SE can make more content before players clear the one from the last update?

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by KaitarBesh

Everyone's 15 bucks a month is equal in the eyes of the corporation. You may think your 15 bucks is better than the next guy's... but it's not, and big companies like to get as much money as possible by appealing to the most people as possible with their product.

 

They also like to get us to play for as long as possible- through interesting grinds. Part of the reason why FFXI's playerbase is still what it was years ago is because SE can achieve the balance.

I think that XI is doing it right right now anyway. Lots of stuff that takes 30mins to clear. Lots of stuff that takes hour or more to clear. The line of casual and hardcore isn't as clear as it could be.. they mix together. The whole system of the game just doesn't really work  with this kind of gameplay, so XIV should be more tailored towards this type of gameplay.

No, actually I've known many people who have tried that game and quit because of the timesinks. When you literally can sit there and read a book during a fight or sit there and make dinner while you wait for an airship to take you from one city to the next, the timesinks are too extreme for many people's tastes.  There is a reason FFXI is a niche game; it appeals to the small percentage of the gaming population that has hours upon hours to play and therefore doesn't mind being in front of their computer for 5+ hours a day.

Most people don't enjoy that.  However, with some thought you can balance out timesinks and add content for people who have a lot of time to play and people who don't.  It's up to the devs and SE to not be lazy about how they construct this game and take the easy way out by making it one or the other.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

And what would that be, a non-grind that still lasts for long enough that SE can make more content before players clear the one from the last update?

No doubt there will still be grind in the game, but put in some creative aspects as well. Player housing,  crafting that is both FUN (if anyone thought the crafting system in FFXI or WoW was fun their logic is beyond me. ) and profitable and rewarding.  Put in enough activities that might not necessarily give you exp or even "phat loot"  but are rewarding in other ways, such as entertainment value,  for both groups and solo players - special missions that open  up side stories, special dungeons for both groups and solo/duo players, etc.  Make exploration worth something.  Make it so characters can advance through any of several ways -  have the option to be an adventurer, a merchant, a diplomat, a farmer that supplies the stores - and make them all viable and interesting.  Yes, have the grind for those who just love the grind, but offer other alternatives that have taken a bit of thought to impliment and make FFXIV really something special and different that can keep its "core" base and yet appeal to all of us who are sick of the endless parade of clones-of-eachother games that keep coming out.

Originally posted by KaitarBesh

Originally posted by Hyanmen

And what would that be, a non-grind that still lasts for long enough that SE can make more content before players clear the one from the last update?

No doubt there will still be grind in the game, but put in some creative aspects as well. Player housing,  crafting that is both FUN (if anyone thought the crafting system in FFXI or WoW was fun their logic is beyond me. ) and profitable and rewarding.  Put in enough activities that might not necessarily give you exp or even "phat loot"  but are rewarding in other ways, such as entertainment value,  for both groups and solo players - special missions that open  up side stories, special dungeons for both groups and solo/duo players, etc.  Make exploration worth something.  Make it so characters can advance through any of several ways -  have the option to be an adventurer, a merchant, a diplomat, a farmer that supplies the stores - and make them all viable and interesting.  Yes, have the grind for those who just love the grind, but offer other alternatives that have taken a bit of thought to impliment and make FFXIV really something special and different that can keep its "core" base and yet appeal to all of us who are sick of the endless parade of clones-of-eachother games that keep coming out.

But SE adds missions and quests every update- what's your point here?

There's lots of sidecontent like you described, it just doesn't work because there's no incentive. Ballista, Brenner, Pankration all break from that grind already, and are pretty nice activities to do, but they're not succesful because they aren't part of the main game. Missions are better, but there's no phat loot = nobody does it. But on the other hand you want to be able to advance through other ways- but don't want to get anything but entertainment value from doing so?

The option to be merchant, adventurer, farmer- they already exist. What you're thinking of sounds like something so abstract I'm not even sure if it'd work in a game like this, if you can to explain a bit better that'd maybe help.

And I enjoyed crafting in FFXI a lot- nothing better than choosing your own path to get to cap by looking at recipes, checking AH prices and calculating the most efficient way to get to cap, then putting your plan to motion and see it be a success- I didn't find it a grind at all.

Yeah FFXIV needs to be more like wow in some ways, here is why. Game Play in FFXI as it is right now is really boring as hell, Graphics engine is outdated, and a bit worse than wow in some ways.

Second Mana/Health Regen takes too long, It needs to be like wow's/Aion's, Not a lot of down time.

Third Solo play, FFXI totally lacks solo play except beast masters, I think that all classes need to be able to kill any monster they want in a game the same level or close to it, except for bcnm's, and just leave the option open for people to group with them.

Or they could possibly add AI Bots to it as well, so that you can just add henchmen like in guild wars to it, and solo without the need for a group in reguar mob to mob battles, and at the end of every 1 or 2 battles your mana/hp regens full, or something to avoid the boring down time.

Originally posted by Renoaku

Third Solo play, FFXI totally lacks solo play except beast masters, I think that all classes need to be able to kill any monster they want in a game the same level or close to it, except for bcnm's, and just leave the option open for people to group with them.

Or they could possibly add AI Bots to it as well, so that you can just add henchmen like in guild wars to it, and solo without the need for a group in reguar mob to mob battles, and at the end of every 1 or 2 battles your mana/hp regens full, or something to avoid the boring down time.

Fortunately that isn't the case nowadays, SE updated the game to a more solo friendly one. With a system that ignores soloability completely, it has been hard if not impossible to make it really efficient though. However, soloplay is there, and we will be seeing it in XIV as well.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by KaitarBesh

Originally posted by Hyanmen

And what would that be, a non-grind that still lasts for long enough that SE can make more content before players clear the one from the last update?

No doubt there will still be grind in the game, but put in some creative aspects as well. Player housing,  crafting that is both FUN (if anyone thought the crafting system in FFXI or WoW was fun their logic is beyond me. ) and profitable and rewarding.  Put in enough activities that might not necessarily give you exp or even "phat loot"  but are rewarding in other ways, such as entertainment value,  for both groups and solo players - special missions that open  up side stories, special dungeons for both groups and solo/duo players, etc.  Make exploration worth something.  Make it so characters can advance through any of several ways -  have the option to be an adventurer, a merchant, a diplomat, a farmer that supplies the stores - and make them all viable and interesting.  Yes, have the grind for those who just love the grind, but offer other alternatives that have taken a bit of thought to impliment and make FFXIV really something special and different that can keep its "core" base and yet appeal to all of us who are sick of the endless parade of clones-of-eachother games that keep coming out.

 

But SE adds missions and quests every update- what's your point here?

There's lots of sidecontent like you described, it just doesn't work because there's no incentive. Ballista, Brenner, Pankration all break from that grind already, and are pretty nice activities to do, but they're not succesful because they aren't part of the main game. Missions are better, but there's no phat loot = nobody does it. But on the other hand you want to be able to advance through other ways- but don't want to get anything but entertainment value from doing so?

The option to be merchant, adventurer, farmer- they already exist. What you're thinking of sounds like something so abstract I'm not even sure if it'd work in a game like this, if you can to explain a bit better that'd maybe help.

And I enjoyed crafting in FFXI a lot- nothing better than choosing your own path to get to cap by looking at recipes, checking AH prices and calculating the most efficient way to get to cap, then putting your plan to motion and see it be a success- I didn't find it a grind at all.

The side content was hardly side content - there were a few missions, which you HAVE to do in order to get higher rank anyway, but no...there was almost nothing in the way of alternative advancement and the few things FFXI did impliment they did so poorly and they were not much fun at all.  There was no way you could advance through the game only as a merchant, a diplomat, etc. The player housing up until very recently was just a place for storage, and even now that's all it is because it wasn't implimented properly - EQ2 did it much better and because of RP servers, gave players a REAL REASON to go visit other houses.  But no one ever RP'ed in FFXI because "you're wasting time we could be out grinding mobs".  That's the whole point of FFXI - grind in order to grind some more. WoW is the same way.

Also: Vanguard tried to impliment alternative paths to end game - they half suceeded, mostly because the game was rushed out of the doors. But they had a great idea in the works. Mortal Online is trying the same thing, I hear.  SWG before it got ruined is another example of alternative ways of progression.

FFXI crafting took no thought. You did just what you explained - bought recipes off the AH and put the items into the "craft" slots and hit "craft". That was all. You sat there and hoped your items didn't blow up.  Again, I'd like to see something more in the way of how EQ2 implimented crafting - almost like a mini game where you had to interact with your goods in order to get the finished product.  The crafting and player housing were the only parts of that game I thought really shined - the rest of it was the same old same old, but SE could take a lesson from SEVERAL MMO's, both released and up and coming - impliment the good ideas and improve on them, toss out the stale or at least polish it up a bit, try something new and unique. It's what many gamers are looking for. There's little reason to pay for yet another "nothing but a grind" fest when there are already several and probably cheaper ones to go play. If they want this game to really stick out they are going to -have- to bring something new to the table.

Originally posted by KaitarBesh

The side content was hardly side content - there were a few missions, which you HAVE to do in order to get higher rank anyway, but no...there was almost nothing in the way of alternative advancement and the few things FFXI did impliment they did so poorly and they were not much fun at all.  There was no way you could advance through the game only as a merchant, a diplomat, etc. The player housing up until very recently was just a place for storage, and even now that's all it is because it wasn't implimented properly - EQ2 did it much better and because of RP servers, gave players a REAL REASON to go visit other houses.  But no one ever RP'ed in FFXI because "you're wasting time we could be out grinding mobs".  That's the whole point of FFXI - grind in order to grind some more. WoW is the same way.

 

FFXI crafting took no thought. You did just what you explained - bought recipes off the AH and put the items into the "craft" slots and hit "craft". That was all. You sat there and hoped your items didn't blow up.  Again, I'd like to see something more in the way of how EQ2 implimented crafting - almost like a mini game where you had to interact with your goods in order to get the finished product.  The crafting and player housing were the only parts of that game I thought really shined - the rest of it was the same old same old, but SE could take a lesson from SEVERAL MMO's, both released and up and coming - impliment the good ideas and improve on them, toss out the stale or at least polish it up a bit, try something new and unique. It's what many gamers are looking for. There's little reason to pay for yet another "nothing but a grind" fest when there are already several and probably cheaper ones to go play. If they want this game to really stick out they are going to -have- to bring something new to the table.

So you want to get "exp" from these things after all, just named as something else? I see. Just a different kind of grind, this time only rather than killing mobs you err, sell things and negotiate? Would be really nice to know how SWG did this, because I don't understand how this can possibly work.

You could craft in FFXI without putting any thought into it- however that way you lost all your money instead of gaining some. If you want to do that then the possibility should be there, but no way was it as simple as that even though the whole "synthesizing" was just what you described. Crafting wasn't only about that. A minigame like Fishing has in XI would certainly make it more interactive, but in the end it becomes only a neat feature and you get bored of it after a while no matter what.

Other than that you just want something new to be implemented- I agree.

But you still haven't answered the question about activities; Pankration, Ballista, Brenner and missions are exactly what you described, but then not? Why do you "Have" to advance in rank in the first place? That's only true for the nation missions though, which is about 10% of the missions in the game. There's about 500 missions right now and that doesn't include quests. It's not just few at all. It also is alternative advancement, not in levels but in story progression.  So if you had something else in mind I don't understand what it could be.

Originally posted by KaitarBesh

I'm saying that both games rely on the same gaming model, which I am pretty sure I clearly stated. I said nothing about "risk vs. reward" (and quite frankly I laugh at that idea too since again... the only "risk" in these games is spending more time gaining what you've lost. AKA timesink. I don't find that hard, I find it a timesink and that's all. )   WoW is more solo friendly with some group content up until end game when it becomes one of two things: PVP grind (both Arena and BG are 'group' dependant - one is static group dependant, the other is not)   and Raiding - group dependant. You can't argue with that - it's a fact.

 

FFXI is group depandant from level 12ish until end game, when it becomes ... yeah, the Raid grind, or a very close approximation of it. They are, in short, the same games with different ways of getting to the Raid grind that awaits. You have few choices of what you can do if you dislike the Raid grind in those games. In WoW, you can PVP-grind, make money or level an alt. In FFXI you can level a subjob or make money.  There is little innovation in these game models because at the time they released, it is what people wanted. But increasingly more gamers want something to do at endgame and during the advancement to said endgame other than grinding ceaselessly just to have the opportunity to grind some more.  In the past two or so years, there has been very little innovation or evolution in the MMO model;  gaming companies have gotten lazy.

I think the rest of my post explains in simple terms how it would be nice if SE decided not to be lazy and actually brought something fresh to the table that will appeal to a large percent of the population - both "casual" and "core"  - who are wanting something more than another endless grind for generic "rewards".

If it was not hard then why did u lose the xp in the first place? I mean if its not hard u would never die.. you would never Dlvl...thus no time sinks. What kind of a chellange is it to go time and time again to try to beat a mob and die only to ghost run to the body with very MINIMAL armor repairs as a punishment? Dying in FFXI was what it should be hopefully in FFXIV... something people work very hard to avoid. Facedown on the ground so u can be the joke of the day for passing adventurers or recall and lose time and xp...If that does not give people an incentive to work harder as a group or as an individual to avoid death then I dono what does. And maybe "Hard" is not the right word to put it but how about "challanging" ... but then again if it was not hard.. then u would never die and never need to sink more time in re-leveling

As for making these games inovative..give people more to do..I find it kinda funny, yeah I guess they could add a few things in the game for people to do but then again I feel like you are asking the Devs to find and implement the meaning of life in a video game. I mean even in RL most everyone does the same damn things over and over lol timesink (Work) to level your carier and get money to buy things so you can be better then your neighbor or just to make it for another month. I myself find it hard to see what else they need to add to these games aside from

a good community building game

a good and fun story to go through while playing

a fun fighting experience

and a way for people to get noticed from the others.

Those are the cores of MMORPGs anything else and you are  borderline asking game developers to make the game into a virtual reality with more REAL LIFE things to do.."Get Married" "Go Dancing" "Funrish a House and play House wife and host for your friends" god damn it if you want to do those things go do em in real life.

Originally posted by Renoaku

Second Mana/Health Regen takes too long, It needs to be like wow's/Aion's, Not a lot of down time.

1. There are ways to increase the rate of MP and HP regen, both while fighting and while resting - while soloing or while in a group.
2. If you're in a good party with mages who know how to manage their MP and don't blast through it by chain-casting, down time should never be significant.


Third Solo play, FFXI totally lacks solo play except beast masters, I think that all classes need to be able to kill any monster they want in a game the same level or close to it, except for bcnm's, and just leave the option open for people to group with them.

When is the last time you played? Because that statement about Beast Masters and solo-ability hasn't been true for quite a long time now.

Also, if you make all content (except BCNMs, HNMs, etc) soloable on an even level with the "option to group" then no one will group. Why share the loot and xp with others if you can do just fine by yourself? That's the misconception other devs have made... "Well, if we make the content soloable, then people don't have to group up, but they still have the option!".

The result in every MMO I've played that's tried something like that is people will solo all the time. They'll only group up for a tough instance or boss fight for a quest, etc. They then disband and go back to soloing 'til the next time they need help.

It sounds great in theory. It never works out quite as imagined in execution.

Or they could possibly add AI Bots to it as well, so that you can just add henchmen like in guild wars to it, and solo without the need for a group in reguar mob to mob battles, and at the end of every 1 or 2 battles your mana/hp regens full, or something to avoid the boring down time.

What you're basically getting at in this post is that you want a soloable MMO where you never have to cooperate with other live players and don't have to worry about monitoring MP or HP, because it's all refilled for you every 1 or 2 fights.

Why not go a step farther and set it up so you can automate your own character to choose their own targets, select the optimal attacks for every situation and execute them perfectly without you having to even press a key? Then you can just sit back and watch the game instead of actually playing it at all.

Seriously... The game you're describing, quite frankly, sounds extremely boring and not even worth playing. I sincerely hope SE doesn't go the direction you're suggesting. I also don't believe they will.

WoW is a mmo where people can play it casualy or play it "hardcore" like, it is probley one of the reasons for its succes as well as the Warcraft franchise.

FFXIV should be able to have some casual players but it should still be made for the final fantasy and FFXI fans out there, not for Warcraft fans they have WoW. I hate how people compare everything to WoW but it happens.

FFXIV should have more solo content so I can level my Tarutaru pld with out having to wait a entire week for 1 group that lasts 2 hours (True event!).

But like FFXI it should be based around group play which sort of makes casual playing hard to do when solo is really the only thing left for casual gamers.

End of ramble which probley went off topic.

What I've been wondering about is how they could implement a way of  "casual grouping".. Soloing doesn't have to be the only way!

Originally posted by Stooky

But like FFXI it should be based around group play which sort of makes casual playing hard to do when solo is really the only thing left for casual gamers.

Do you think maybe that's a misconception that we are lead to believe? Hyanmen raises a good question what about casual grouping? Surely this will be in FF14, actually I'm convinced it will be. :p

Originally posted by Stooky

WoW is a mmo where people can play it casualy or play it "hardcore" like, it is probley one of the reasons for its succes as well as the Warcraft franchise.

FFXIV should be able to have some casual players but it should still be made for the final fantasy and FFXI fans out there, not for Warcraft fans they have WoW. I hate how people compare everything to WoW but it happens.

FFXIV should have more solo content so I can level my Tarutaru pld with out having to wait a entire week for 1 group that lasts 2 hours (True event!).

But like FFXI it should be based around group play which sort of makes casual playing hard to do when solo is really the only thing left for casual gamers.

End of ramble which probley went off topic.

I am going to give it to you, It WAS hard for Paladins to get a party, especially tarutaru ones in the 2-3year of the game as more peopole went for specialized parties BUT I think you did go all wrong with trying to party with complete strangers all the time. Having a statick party was the way to go, it was both more enjoyable and more productive. Granted it was hard to get 6 people on at the same time but statick parties of 3 people worked just as good :). After leveling my PLD to 75 which was my first job to 75 I began to lvl my WAR with a NIN and a BRD. We would call eachother and get on at the same time get 3 pubs and go lvl it was always such an easy and entertaining experience(I never knew em in person btw). IN FACT I am getting in touch with them already so we make sure to start in the same server. 

Originally posted by KaitarBesh

O

 

The side content was hardly side content - there were a few missions, which you HAVE to do in order to get higher rank anyway, but no...

Get higher rank, get various rewards along the way (some very nice rewards) and, you know... progress through the multiple story lines - the thing Final Fantasy games are always focused on anyway?

there was almost nothing in the way of alternative advancement and the few things FFXI did impliment they did so poorly and they were not much fun at all. 

Not fun to you, perhaps. Plenty of fun to many others. You don't speak for everyone.

There was no way you could advance through the game only as a merchant, a diplomat, etc.

... because the game wasn't designed with that in mind. If you're going to bash it for things it's not, then why stop there? There's plenty of other things it doesn't do as well. Like any other MMO, FFXI does exactly what SE intended it to do. If you don't like what it has, fine.. your prerogative. But to bash it for not having features it never promised to have in the first place is pretty hollow. What game do you like? I bet you I can list a whole bunch of things that game doesn't do or have as well...

The player housing up until very recently was just a place for storage, and even now that's all it is because it wasn't implimented properly

Player housing just a place for storage? Not implemented properly? Wow... Either you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're just flat out lying.

You can do gardening in your moghouse.... a very involved system that can potentially yield a lot of money.
Every item you put in your mog house has an element associated with it and also has an effect on some element of gameplay.

Hell... here's a whole page on it: Click Here

Storage only, eh?

FFXI's housing system is one of the most detailed and involved I've seen in any MMO, including EQ2. It's not only for "show"... it actually serves a purpose and affects gameplay. And, yes, if you're a capable roleplayer, the housing in FFXI would suffice just fine.


- EQ2 did it much better and because of RP servers, gave players a REAL REASON to go visit other houses.  But no one ever RP'ed in FFXI because "you're wasting time we could be out grinding mobs".  That's the whole point of FFXI

 You're blaming the game for the behavior of the players. Interesting. There are people *do* RP in FFXI... If you do some searching around, you will find them.

Also: Vanguard tried to impliment alternative paths to end game - they half suceeded, mostly because the game was rushed out of the doors. But they had a great idea in the works. Mortal Online is trying the same thing, I hear.  SWG before it got ruined is another example of alternative ways of progression.

Great... those games' developers put a lot of emphasis into those particular game systems. SE put emphasis into different areas with FFXI... Again, you're faulting the game for not doing things it never promised to do in the first place.

What you're doing here is like going into a motorcycle shop and complaining because all their vehicles have two wheels and that other shops are better because theirs have 4. You're complaining about something being exactly what it was designed to be. If you don't like that design or miss the things that you have in other games, fine... but that's not a "flaw" of the game in question. It simply doesn't offer what you, personally, would like for it to have.

Again, name me any game and I could come up with a list of gameplay features it doesn't have that other MMOs do.

FFXI crafting took no thought. You did just what you explained - bought recipes off the AH and put the items into the "craft" slots and hit "craft". That was all. You sat there and hoped your items didn't blow up. 

The actual process of crafting isn't involved, but the influences and mechanics behind it are. Ask anyone who's an avid crafter and they'll tell you all the things they take into consideration when crafting. That said... I do agree that the process itself isn't that engaging and I believe EQ2's is more enjoyable as well (well, prior to them changing it where you can apparently press the same 3 buttons every tick and get pristines every time... that's just lame).
 

Originally posted by WSIMike
Seriously... The game you're describing, quite frankly, sounds extremely boring and not even worth playing. I sincerely hope SE doesn't go the direction you're suggesting. I also don't believe they will.

Sounds like WoW actually ... just saying.

And speaking of the idea of optional groups. It is one of the things I hated about WoW and what little I played of LotRO. You start standing in front of a big large dragon and you need help ... someone walks up that needs it to so you group up, kill it, and then disband. Typcially this is done without even saying {Hello!} which just baffles my mind coming from FFXI. There is some of this kinda thing in FFXI which reguard to missions and such, but in other MMOs where you have that soloability built in you just don't have the real oppritunity to get to know the people you play with ... so really you end up paying a subscription for an offline game it seems.

And in reguards to grouping in those games. I mean ... doesn't anyone talk to anyone? I'd get a random invite in one of those game and I would not know what it is for. I'd accept and they wouldn't even talk back when I say something. How do I know what this party is for? Is it for a quest where you have to find 10 wolf hearts? Is it for a mission? Is it for shits and giggles? Why? I mena just talk to people it isn't hard send a tell "Hey bro I need to do this quest called 'Find me the wolf hearts' i see you are in the area do you need it too?" Boom now I know what the invite is for and I can decide what I want to do if I want to accept or not. People in MMOs need to work on social skills in general. In an environment where you shoul be interacting with people (albeit a digital avatar) you should get practice in talking.

... .... ... and in reguards to finding 10 wolf hearts. Why do you need to kill like 20 wolves to find 1 heart. Shouldn't EVERY wolf have a heart? I mean they are supposed to be living creatures you are slaughtering for the profit of some guy in town that you just met and you take his word that he have 80 gold pieces for you and that can say one thing, why the hell wouldn't they have a heart that you can loot? And why the fuck do some have two?

Mutants....duhhh

that plus most of the wolves have some kind of heart desease making the heart undersirable.

I do agree most of the wolves look like mutants in WoW, good explanation D: