I left the game when SOE came in and changed everything from the original design. I wanted the game I signed up for, just wanted the bugs and lag fixed. I didn't want a different game.

Originally posted by qombi

 I left the game when SOE came in and changed everything from the original design. I wanted the game I signed up for, just wanted the bugs and lag fixed. I didn't want a different game.

That's a common misconception.  I know you dislike SOE, I've read your other posts   ...but the Vanguard devs and producer and everybody that works on the VG dev team have come out and said SOE has not told them to do anything gameplay wise.  Everything they've done up to this point is all decided within the dev team, and they are still the original devs that worked on VG when Sigil owned the game.  Want examples of changes people didn't like?

How about teleport stones?  VG players didn't like them, said they killed "meaningful traveling"...yet the feature got implemented before SOE bought Sigil out. 

Reduced death penalty, all done within the first 3 months of launch.  Not because SOE told them to change it, but because there was a forum outcry from modern MMO players stating the exp was too slow and death penalty was too harsh.

People love to just blame SOE for this and that, when they should be blaming the devs that are making these changes, the devs that were with Sigil before game launched and still with VG today (Silius, for an example, now the head developer/producer for Vanguard).

Originally posted by darkbladed

The odds do not apply

Its like saying 70% of people in general like eating pie so 70% of people like eating mud pie.

It just doesnt equate.

For all these reasons and numerous I have not named I say this game has taken yet another hit and is doing worse than it was 3 months ago (which wasnt good to begin with).

Well I guess my main thing is... why is anyone supposed to care here?  or why do people post so much (as noted every forum has a thread like this).  I don't own stock in any of these companies.. and if I did I sold it long ago.. I have nothing to gain.. if I don't like a game I post a bit at that time and I move on... ok I posted a bit longer about one game then moved on..

What's the end game?

What do you win if the game shut down?  Or what do you lose if the game keeps running?

There has to be some logical reason to keep posting about it...

I think it would be interesting for them to show the numbers "currently logged in" for all 4 servers... then I could compare them to say DAoC's currently logged in numbers...

I don't know why... I guess it would be worth a new thread if I could..

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Originally posted by Mardy

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Originally posted by NizurA lot of people have grown tired of WoW's endless end game grind, whether it's raiding or arenas. Despite having an enormous player base and gigantic budget, people are still leaving WoW. WoW's player base isn't as big as it used to be, and it'll only keep getting smaller as more and more good MMOs enter the market. It's just part of the genre. Actually it's part of the entire gaming industry. People get bored with games and move on.

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That's stretching a bit too far don't you think?  Claiming WoW's playerbase is getting smaller, when in fact WoW has done nothing but grow since it got launched in 2004.  While it's true their subs are not growing as fast as it used to be, it could be slowly leveling off, but it is definitely not "getting smaller" as you claim.  I don't even play WoW anymore, but I can at least acknowledge that 800lbs gorilla and give credit where its due.

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I'm in no way trying to take credit away from WoW. No doubt they're the 800lb gorilla. I guess I'm mistaken, but I could've sworn I read WoW had over 12.5 million subs at one point. I can't find that figure anywhere though. The latest "official" numbers I've seen show it around 11.5 million, so I had assumed they had lost a million subs.

Still, you can't argue that people aren't getting bored with WoW, or weren't getting bored with it before WotLK came out. Blizz smartly releases their subs count after major releases or holidays. Actually, most MMOs companies do the same.

i actually think the realish figure is hanging around 10 million or so, most of which is actually in asia, but i also believe that a lot of the vets are giving up on this game from all the changes that they made, which basically takes all the challenge away from anything that you do in it. I for one, am one of them. And i am positive that i am not the only one to quit over the past year lol.

i am also surprised that they have managed to hold onto those numbers seeing as the game came out on November 23, 2004, and the graphics are way outdated....guess it's because it's playable on pretty much any computer that keeps the people going cause they don't have to go out and buy a new rig.

I think it is true that wow is retaining the numbers and will release one more press statement of 12 million+ when lich king is released in china where roughly 1/3 of the wow players are. 

At the same time it is also true that there is a growing population of wow players (not just wow players either) who are growing very anxious for something new to grab ahold of them. 

Until that something happens I don't expect to see a big decrease in any sub numbers anywhere.  People will keep repeating the cycle of quit, resubscribe, try a handful of other titles that just don't do it, quit, resub, etc.   I didn't say wow, because I think this is happening to all mmos right now and the market is ripe for change just like late 2004.

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Originally posted by Daffid011
I think it is true that wow is retaining the numbers and will release one more press statement of 12 million+ when lich king is released in china where roughly 1/3 of the wow players are. 

At the same time it is also true that there is a growing population of wow players (not just wow players either) who are growing very anxious for something new to grab ahold of them. 

Until that something happens I don't expect to see a big decrease in any sub numbers anywhere.  People will keep repeating the cycle of quit, resubscribe, try a handful of other titles that just don't do it, quit, resub, etc. I didn't say wow, because I think this is happening to all mmos right now and the market is ripe for change just like late 2004.

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Yeah, there's definitely a big demand for something new and awesome in the genre. I found a good article on MMO burnout the other day that I think explains the current MMO malaise most people are feeling right now. Basically, your first MMO and the experiences you had with it early on can never be matched. Unless the new MMO is truly groundbreaking, it will get old much quicker than your first MMO.

After lackluster releases this past few years, first Vanguard, then AoC, then Warhammer Online...just to mention a few big titles, yes gamers are itching for something new.  It's a stale period in the genre. 

Mythic tried to imitate WoW with Warhammer, thought making a game similiar to WoW would attract its customers.  It did for awhile, but didn't last long because people end up going back to their games.

AoC and Vanguard both tried to be different, and tried new things, but they were both too ambitious and gave false promises.  Both games were launched prematurely and both suffered as a result.

That's kinda why these days you see so many people looking and trying out classic games again, like EQ1, DAOC, AC1, EQ2, and yes those that quit WoW a few years ago are probably giving it another look.  The thing about WoW is while you can say a lot of of their subscribers are getting bored, WoW is still one of the top selling games after 5 years.  So they may lose people, but they also at the same time gain so many.

I guess you can say the genre is ready for another blockbuster hit.  And in my opinion, the next big one is going to be....the next Blizzard MMO, which is still unnamed to the public

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Originally posted by Mardy
And in my opinion, the next big one is going to be....the next Blizzard MMO, which is still unnamed to the public

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Yeah, I would agree with that. I know a lot of people would argue SW:TOR will be the next big gorilla, but I just don't see it happening. I think it'll be a success, just not a WoW-killer.

Originally posted by Nizur

 

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Originally posted by Mardy
And in my opinion, the next big one is going to be....the next Blizzard MMO, which is still unnamed to the public

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Yeah, I would agree with that. I know a lot of people would argue SW:TOR will be the next big gorilla, but I just don't see it happening. I think it'll be a success, just not a WoW-killer.

well with  a few good looking games on the horizon, it will steal some of these numbers from them.

SWTOR

Aion

mortal online

fallen earth

just to name a few

Originally posted by Mardy

After lackluster releases this past few years, first Vanguard, then AoC, then Warhammer Online...just to mention a few big titles, yes gamers are itching for something new.  It's a stale period in the genre. 

 

Mythic tried to imitate WoW with Warhammer, thought making a game similiar to WoW would attract its customers.  It did for awhile, but didn't last long because people end up going back to their games.

 

AoC and Vanguard both tried to be different, and tried new things, but they were both too ambitious and gave false promises.  Both games were launched prematurely and both suffered as a result.

 

That's kinda why these days you see so many people looking and trying out classic games again, like EQ1, DAOC, AC1, EQ2, and yes those that quit WoW a few years ago are probably giving it another look.  The thing about WoW is while you can say a lot of of their subscribers are getting bored, WoW is still one of the top selling games after 5 years.  So they may lose people, but they also at the same time gain so many.

 

I guess you can say the genre is ready for another blockbuster hit.  And in my opinion, the next big one is going to be....the next Blizzard MMO, which is still unnamed to the public

Not tyring to flame a post or anything like that but I don't think most players are looking at classic games again. Have you tried logging into EQ1 or Ultima Online lately? It's brutal, graphically horrible, and over all a waste of time. Those games had there day and that day has passed. Also, when did EQ2 become a classic game? It was released around the same time as WoW. So if you're going to call it classic you should probably throw WoW in your definition of classic aswell.

Originally posted by fodell54

 

Not tyring to flame a post or anything like that but I don't think most players are looking at classic games again. Have you tried logging into EQ1 or Ultima Online lately? It's brutal, graphically horrible, and over all a waste of time. Those games had there day and that day has passed. Also, when did EQ2 become a classic game? It was released around the same time as WoW. So if you're going to call it classic you should probably throw WoW in your definition of classic aswell.

No offense taken, I kinda said what I did in a run-on sentence.  I listed the classic games (EQ1, AC1, DAOC), then listed EQ2/WoW also because they are "older" games...not classic games.  My fault for not separating them.  But it's hard to imagine EQ2 & WoW are also 5 years old.

As for if I've played EQ1 lately, yes I have, I'm playing it currently and it has tons more players in it than newer games such as this one, Vanguard.  It's also very close to the amount of players in EQ2, but nobody knows exactly how close since we don't know the numbers. But you can login to both games and get the same sort of feelings, such as there's a lack of lowbie population, both games are top-heavy, some servers feel like they're really empty while others are pretty populated.

When I said players are looking at the classic/older games, I mean the newer games just don't last long enough.  There's either not enough content to keep people around for long (Vanguard is this way), or the endgame content sucks (Warhammer is this way), or a combination of both (AoC is this way).  So because newer games with shiny graphics can't keep players for long, they end up going back to some of the older games for either nostalgia purposes or because they simply like the content/gameplay better.  While many others have been jumping from one MMO to another every few months looking for "the one" and just haven't been able to find one.

I keep coming back and leaving - mostly due to lack of time, and once due to frustration boiling over.

I think the thing here is - lower level content is wonderful.   If you have a great guild that still spends the time to go through it the way it was meant to be it is incredibly fun.  Not rushing it - doing these multi part quests, dungeons, etc.    There is great content from day one.   Increasingly you have more pick up groups going as more people are coming to the game at the low level.   These quest lines tho are designed around having a consistent group to work them.  To date the most fun I have had is in levels 20-40.

The top level game is  a grind-fest.  Swamp, RI, Crypt Flips, then SOD/BOD and POTA.    APW is good content - then the more casual group stuff is a big grind.   Some of it is fun and some of it is not.  Some of it is fun the first 5 times then not, hehe.

To a degree it follows the eq content model that happened around Velious and PoP.  Grind grind grind faction for velious armor, grind PoP (but with more challenging content).   And eventually great content opened up.

I don't mind a grind - it's a good time to learn a class, work with a guild, socialize.  However - EQ also supported fun single group spots and had more open no grind needed raid content.   More dungeons that you could walk in and just kick some butt, the original planes, etc.   As well as plenty of single group or two group content for good items.    I almost never raided in EQ and had plenty to do up till it got ridiculous.   There was room for many years for different play styles. 

Vanguard doesn't have that as a secondary.  That said I keep trying other things and coming back.   For me right now - this is the game if and when I have time for an MMO.   I am lookign toward  The Agency for something new potentially, and the Bioware star wars game, and some others.  

Pantheon was a great chance for what I thought would be diffcult but more casual friendly content - and it turned out not to be that.  Lucky for me I have taken the top of the game at pace and still have APW to work through slowly with my casual guild - so still content to take on for us.