I know the Aeria games top two were around 5 mil each,so anything double that ,could be decent,i would like to check them out.

i never played ROM long enough to guesstimate cost,nor have i ever heard anything about cost.IMO the F2P world is surrounded with a majority of poorly designed cheap games.You CANNOT design a quality game on a low budget.You can slap together a world generator,plop in some mobs,maybe the generator does that for you too and have something playable,but knowledgable people will see through the lack of content.

I realize there are people who do not have the money,and they have probably brain washed themselves into accepting F2P games as being good.It is not like they have a choice anyhow,and with no cash to burn on gaming,they will also have very little knowledge when comparing a game to other games.So they play the F2p games with cutesy colours,the glowing weapons,the spikey armour,also HUGE over sized weapons and think they have something cool.

I would say that 99% of the p2p games are decent enough to warrant a look,but there are F2p games that they could not pay me to play.One example was Atlantica online.I played it as soon as it became available and at the start it intrigued me because it was a little different than the norm.Then Atlantica came out with the enjoy our game or we will pay you,and i did not bother to take them up on it,i just felt sorry for their efforts as the game was typical F2P as far as i was concerned.How about that megami Tensai or whatever it is called?I logged into that game was like "WTF?"total garbage,they could not pay me 100 bucks a month to play it,actually double that and i would not play it.I could make a better game than that in my sleep.

The big problem i see with F2P games is that their budget will sky rocket if they try to upgrade to top notch game engines.Thios alone would quadruple their budget and that is without even doing any of the content.With no set money coming in ,and no idea on the bandwidth neededto run a higher quality game,they would never do it anyhow,so F2P will always remain a low budget effort and a low quality effort as well.

I don't think that F2P games are good at all...hopefully that will change.  Most developers can release a F2P game and bank on that someone is attracted to it because its free, but personally I'd rather pay my whole monthly video game budget on one really well crafted feature complete game than a bunch of free ones that are either clones, lacking content to those who don't pay those annyoing cash shops, or just terrible.  Almost every P2P has something that is enjoyable, because they seem to get a lot more care.

And honestly, his articles would be good two years ago.  They have an appealing writing style, but everyone knows that reads this site that F2P is popular, not exactly a news flash in any stretch of the imagination.

Free to play is the future. Korea is 5 years ahead of us. They always have been.

The rise of the free to play game killed the subscription model over there.. just as it is over here.

Turbine just announced one of their subscription games is turning F2P.

Originally posted by TRsome

Free to play is the future. Korea is 5 years ahead of us. They always have been.

The rise of the free to play game killed the subscription model over there.. just as it is over here.

Turbine just announced one of their subscription games is turning F2P.

 

If cash shop games, they are not free to play especially over there, are the future then the future is a bleak wasteland devoid of intellegent life. You really don't understand the Western market. It's an entirely different gaming culture.

Free with a VIP program...
http://www.ddo.com/vip

It's more like an extended trial, really. Plus, the game isn't an MMO anyway, since it's so heavily instanced. It's basically the same as Guild Wars as far as zones/instances go, but NCSoft don't charge a monthly fee for their game, nor do they call it an MMO.

Korea might be 5 years ahead of US/Europe in some areas, but their MMO-s are lightyears behind. I remember people getting excited about Rohan Online coming to US/Europe, as it was considered to be the crown jewel of Asian MMO-s. Where is it now? It turned out to be yet another sucky clone no one wants to play.

Originally posted by BlackWatch

Again, who wants to have to 'grind' like that?  Obviously there are 'grinds' of some type in nearly every game... I get that.  I would need to grind in most of these games anyway, then to have a secondary grind for currency just to exchange for RMT currency just to exchange for the items.... bah.

I never said it is an exiting way to get gold - all I said it is still there. You stated "it is impossible to play without spending real money" and I just reminded you that it is not. Just a usual trade - if you are tide on money you can spend your time. Sounds like fair trade to me.

Btw, do you know ANY game where you do not have to grind for cash? (Ok, there is CoH, but it is not about economy anyway, hence not counted) F2P just give you an option to legally replace grind with buying gold.

I was playing Maple Story years and years ago… Ragnarock, Mabinogi, Voyage Century, Pirate Kings and such. I agree that we’re now starting to see some high budget productions but the fact is, this article discuss about a trend that started over 8 years ago.

Still, it’s a great subject to explore since the future is probably resolve around F2P with micro transactions. I personaly don’t mind and have got used to it now.
 

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by TRsome

Free to play is the future. Korea is 5 years ahead of us. They always have been.

The rise of the free to play game killed the subscription model over there.. just as it is over here.

Turbine just announced one of their subscription games is turning F2P.

 

 

If cash shop games, they are not free to play especially over there, are the future then the future is a bleak wasteland devoid of intellegent life. You really don't understand the Western market. It's an entirely different gaming culture.

I do understand the Western market... and no, the mmo industry is still nowhere near Korea is in number of players, percentage of the population playing, and percentage of players that purchase items (in free to play games.)

The problem is this: the Koreans are bringing over their most up to date games to a market that is not as mature as the one that made that individual game a success. How is it an entirely different gaming culture? Sure, there have been failures here... but there have been others (MapleStory) that have toppled every single game in America except WoW.

Korea used to be completely dominated by subscription games until enough quality free to play games forced P2P developers into F2P as well. I think we will see the major shift when Aion is released to less than amazing subscription rates. (by Aion hype standards at least)

Originally posted by TRsome

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by TRsome

Free to play is the future. Korea is 5 years ahead of us. They always have been.

The rise of the free to play game killed the subscription model over there.. just as it is over here.

Turbine just announced one of their subscription games is turning F2P.

 

 

If cash shop games, they are not free to play especially over there, are the future then the future is a bleak wasteland devoid of intellegent life. You really don't understand the Western market. It's an entirely different gaming culture.

 

I do understand the Western market... and no, the mmo industry is still nowhere near Korea is in number of players, percentage of the population playing, and percentage of players that purchase items (in free to play games.)

The problem is this: the Koreans are bringing over their most up to date games to a market that is not as mature as the one that made that individual game a success. How is it an entirely different gaming culture? Sure, there have been failures here... but there have been others (MapleStory) that have toppled every single game in America except WoW.

Korea used to be completely dominated by subscription games until enough quality free to play games forced P2P developers into F2P as well. I think we will see the major shift when Aion is released to less than amazing subscription rates. (by Aion hype standards at least)

Their most up to date games are unmarketable in the West. Seriously they are contentless sub par grinders. They don't translate well culturally to the Western market that will not accept accept them or their business model. Westerners do not go to cyber cafes and play on game time cards for hours on end doing the same repetative tasks.  We don't share the same cultural experiences, mores and mythology. The technology of their best games is five years behind Western MMOs.

Originally posted by Mirandel

Originally posted by BlackWatch

Again, who wants to have to 'grind' like that?  Obviously there are 'grinds' of some type in nearly every game... I get that.  I would need to grind in most of these games anyway, then to have a secondary grind for currency just to exchange for RMT currency just to exchange for the items.... bah.

 

I never said it is an exiting way to get gold - all I said it is still there. You stated "it is impossible to play without spending real money" and I just reminded you that it is not. Just a usual trade - if you are tide on money you can spend your time. Sounds like fair trade to me.

Btw, do you know ANY game where you do not have to grind for cash? (Ok, there is CoH, but it is not about economy anyway, hence not counted) F2P just give you an option to legally replace grind with buying gold.

I would have to disagree and say that it is not a fair trade off. As was explained, its either time or money, yet time is central factor. If I can spend money and get what I want in 5 minutes what it takes someone a day to grind, that means I will always be ahead of the person who has to get everything via time. At the end of the day its about who gets what first, be it information or items or levels. Purchasing any of these with cash versus traditional grinding methods will leave the grinder in the dust every time. Just having both options does not mean its an equal trade off. For those who like to compete this is unacceptable. For those who don't care thats another story. Either way, its far from a fair trade off.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Their most up to date games are unmarketable in the West. Seriously they are contentless sub par grinders. They don't translate well culturally to the Western market that will not accept accept them or their business model. Westerners do not go to cyber cafes and play on game time cards for hours on end doing the same repetative tasks.  We don't share the same cultural experiences, mores and mythology. The technology of their best games is five years behind Western MMOs.

I'm speaking in terms of "up to date" monetization features and not graphics. I think that graphics actually play a small role in making an mmo successful.

Originally posted by TRsome

 

I'm speaking in terms of "up to date" monetization features and not graphics. I think that graphics actually play a small role in making an mmo successful.

Who are you fooling? Graphics are giant in terms of initial success of an mmo game. I would be bold as to say its the number one factor (after IP/brand recognition). This has been proven time and time again. As for long time success less so but ultimately if the graphics are crap then the game will never be more than niche (assuming its any good).

I wish it werent so but it is.

Originally posted by Devros

Who are you fooling? Graphics are giant in terms of initial success of an mmo game. I would be bold as to say its the number one factor (after IP/brand recognition). This has been proven time and time again. As for long time success less so but ultimately if the graphics are crap then the game will never be more than niche (assuming its any good).

I wish it werent so but it is.

No. Marketing dollars spent on a pre-launch campaign are giant in terms of initial success of an mmo game. I think the trend right now is where the big name companies (EA, Turbine, FunCom) are focusing all their advertising dollars on the graphic intensive games simply because they look better in a trailer. If that is what you mean by "initial success," then yes, I may have to give you that one.

However, I think in terms of success, several games have stood out without being cutting edge. MapleStory is the obvious choice, as well as many other F2P games and a few other subscription games like EVE. (yes, EVE is a success)

Originally posted by TRsome

 

No. Marketing dollars spent... 

I think the trend right now is where the big name companies (EA, Turbine, FunCom) are focusing all their advertising dollars on the graphic intensive games simply because they look better in a trailer

However, I think in terms of success, several games have stood out without being cutting edge. MapleStory is the obvious choice, as well as many other F2P games and a few other subscription games like EVE. (yes, EVE is a success)

 To borrow your intro, “No”. Companies don’t make games for multiple markets and then decide “Hey, our games with stunning graphics look best with trailers so let’s focus all our ad dollars there!”. There is no “trend” to focus ad-money on graphic intensive games “…simply because they look better in a trailer…”. That’s silly.

In fact, they have always been advertised with trailers. Contemporary video games, for a the most part, are a visual medium. Sure graphic intensive games look good in a trailer, but these games get all the ad money AND development money because they have the highest potential for large returns, because they are the most popular, because they are the most successful.
Keep in mind companies can make a pretty trailer for any game. If you look at the SWTOR trailer posted somewhere on here, you can see that many trailers for graphic intensive games don’t even have in-game footage. In other words, you can make an amazing trailer for chess if you wanted too.
 

Next, Maplestory? You can’t site F2P mmo's as a comparison for ”success despite graphics” over P2P mmo's. F2P games as a brand are known for lower quality graphics. Players of F2P games expect lesser graphics there by eliminating that factor effecting sales.
 

As for EVE, it was based on graphic superiority, that’s how it was marketed when it first came out, and it worked. It crushed all related games at the time, and they knew it (Mankind, Jumpgate, Space above and Beyond, to name a few) so you are actually supporting my point with that one. Over time Eve became known for its gameplay but even now the latest add-on was based around graphic intense campaign.
 

Now, if you were to say that in the realm of F2P games graphics don’t matter much in terms of success I would say that you could make a valid argument, but I would argue that it does make a difference since better graphics than the next guy would be a bonus in a market filled with below average graphics. This is actually closer to the parent post ;p

I kinda lost track of what you two are arguing about, a little of everything I guess 8)

My question remains unanswered.

Before you can say that the ftp model will "take over" or "not stand a chance" You kinda need to know if it is possible to apply a ftp model on all sorts of mmo's. I suspect that it's not, but my knowledge is limited and my analysis is poor.

If anyone could shed some light on this crucial aspect, it would be easier to make assumptions.

Originally posted by Devros

I would have to disagree and say that it is not a fair trade off. As was explained, its either time or money, yet time is central factor. If I can spend money and get what I want in 5 minutes what it takes someone a day to grind, that means I will always be ahead of the person who has to get everything via time. At the end of the day its about who gets what first, be it information or items or levels. Purchasing any of these with cash versus traditional grinding methods will leave the grinder in the dust every time. Just having both options does not mean its an equal trade off. For those who like to compete this is unacceptable. For those who don't care thats another story. Either way, its far from a fair trade off.

So, if some schoolboy has unlimited time and a working man can play only 2 hours a week (hence, has to grind for months without any chance to become equal with the boy) - it is still fair. However if that working man buys stuff which schoolboy simply grinded - it is not fair at all? Interesting. You refuse to see obvious and I think just because at that moment in your life you have more time on your hands then money. Let's discuss it again, when situation will be different and you would not be able to compete with all those kids because of your game-time limitation.

Originally posted by momodig

Is articles are decent... but when I read them, I get the feeling he is lightyears behind... it's as if he as wooken from a deep slumber --

 

Most if not all the stuff he  writes about... people know already, it's nothing new.

 

He talks as if FTP MMOs are a new discovered jem -- and he has found it.  FTP are not new... he should right with the times... his articles seem out of date.

i agree with u pal... the artics posted by him are all vague and nt clear... moreover.. he posts obvious facts and nothing new which is of interese and he posts news of the past!