Originally posted by sepher

Originally posted by protoroc

Enkindu, few questions, when you were a musician, playing live, did you ever perform a cover of a song during a paying gig? If yes, did you reimburse the song's writer? You were making a profit off someone else's hard work, dont thiey deserve some compensation?

 

Cover bands are legal. Even selling covered music recordings are legal and protected by compulsory licenses.

So long as there's no trademark infringements alongside what copyright laws allow, then there's no issue.

People pay for cover bands and know what they're getting into, nothin' wrong with that.

This.

Of course we played covers.  We always told the crowd what artist/ album we were covering and said "go out and buy records to support this great artist that we liked enough to include in our show."

We even had a few people covering our songs within the local scene.. I never saw it as anything more than a tribute/ free advertisement.

I can tell you I would have felt really betrayed, however, if I'd seen our fans passing out free ripped copies of our music.  The difference in practice is blatantly obvious, which leads me to believe that supporters of piracy have never "created" anything worthwhile in their lives.

By the way, those of you saying "you didn't make it in music because you sucked" ....

I'll admit I was a total hack compared to many of the people I played with.  I always knew I'd end up in a straight job.  I was lucky enough to write a few decent songs.

I hate piracy because of the people it hurts the most.. the REALLY brilliant artists whose work is a truly valuable commodity.

Edit: typo

Is there a hell for pirates??? pirate hell.. where you have to buy everything that you ever downloaded from the internet.

Originally posted by oskironmaide

Is there a hell for pirates??? pirate hell.. where you have to buy everything that you ever downloaded from the internet.

No, it is worse.

In pirate hell you are forced to listen to an endless loop tape of  Britney Spears, Anita Bryant, Wayne Newton, and Yanni.

Fine. You've all convinced me. I now realize that DRM is more important than human life.

So I won't download this song.

BTW, if I have a photographic memory and I thumb through a novel at the bookstore, does that mean that I illegally copied the book to my brain?

Don't know if you've been paying attention but everyone here HATES DRM.

Piracy opened the door for DRM to waltz right through the front door and screw up everything.

I'm only interested in piracy being dealt with so that drastic anti-piracy measures won't have to exist. The only way the measures will end is if piracy ends. That of course will never happen, but the landscape can change from the open internet and important technologies, or dwindle to the point of irrelevancy.

Piracy effects a lot of things; reproduced cars for example. Who here cares about that? Probably not a lot of people; but its fought all of the time the same way movies, software and music piracy are fought. I'd love for piracy in our realm of things not to be a big deal; but right now it is so it has to change.

Originally posted by sepher

I'd love for piracy in our realm of things not to be a big deal; but right now it is so it has to change.

I kind of agree with this. I mean, I wont claim that i am innocent with piracy. It sounds bad but it's pretty convenient - to be honest. And it's something im sure people wish to never go away. But of course it's just plain wrong so it should be eliminated (kind of hard though hehe). I guess it should also start with people purchasing these media, they should stop redistributing it. I know there are hackers who hack softwares, but there are also people who are a bit too generous to give away what they've purchased to everyone Ü

Just thought i throw this out there: http://torrentfreak.com/artists-abused-in-pirate-bay-trial-strike-back-090602/

It's not the ones making the music that is losing money to piracy, it's the distributors, the record companies.

Originally posted by Lille7

Just thought i throw this out there: http://torrentfreak.com/artists-abused-in-pirate-bay-trial-strike-back-090602/

 

It's not the ones making the music that is losing money to piracy, it's the distributors, the record companies.

No. Artists lose money as well, since they're due to earn a certain amount of dollars and cents per unit sold. Naturally, they're due to lose a certain amount of dollars and cents per unit not sold.

That link you showed isn't testament to anything different. I'm not sure what the article's "strike back" sentiment was supposed to mean; it's the goal of organizations like the RIAA for those kinds of sites to engage in lawful activity.

So long as that group owned their own publishing rights for what they put out, well what's the big deal? If they pirated their own work, then that's between them and whoever owns their publishing rights, and ofcourse the lawyers between them.

Sorry but you are borderline psychotic and have no clue what freedom of information is or what they want control of.. LOL
 

Originally posted by sepher

It's a complex matter, but the sum of it is of course piracy is bad, hurts our economy

Piracy may be bad but claiming that it hurts the economy is ridiculous. What do you think happens to the money saved by not buying a DVD or CD? It doesn't vanish into the ether, it gets spent elsewhere, therefore no difference to the economy at all.

I've heard lots of arguments from the media companies, all of them scaremongering hogwash. If they didn't churn out so much junk and have such stupid restrictions on what we can do with what we've paid for, they wouldn't be in this mess now.

I'd like to see a try before you buy model of some sort but the media companies would never go for that. They know 99.9% of what they churn out would never sell if people could try it first.

Originally posted by sepher

Originally posted by Lille7

Just thought i throw this out there: http://torrentfreak.com/artists-abused-in-pirate-bay-trial-strike-back-090602/

 

It's not the ones making the music that is losing money to piracy, it's the distributors, the record companies.

 

No. Artists lose money as well, since they're due to earn a certain amount of dollars and cents per unit sold. Naturally, they're due to lose a certain amount of dollars and cents per unit not sold.

You know what that percentage is dude? Try maybe $.90 royalty on top named bands for every $16.98 cd sold, which does not include recoupment costs and other reductions they will get charged..

this is after they have sold enough to retrn the recoupment costs which are basically loans... $250,000 recording time, $100,000 marketng, $150,000 production costs, etc etc etc etc etc, and they have an entire book made on reduction fee's and royalty concepts..

Basically it comes down to pennies............And the pennies are only made if the band sells 1,000,000+ there aint no money in it and very few do this.. Please dont debate of what you have no clue about
 

Originally posted by oskironmaide

Well you wanna know what makes me angry.. is when i buy a game and i see alot of people getting the same experience with a copy from the internet...

Sadly, in a lot of cases, the people playing pirated copies are getting a superior experience because they don't have all the DRM nonsense wrecking their systems. I don't know what the answer is here, too much piracy and there won't be any point in creating new games, but too much damaging DRM of the sort we are seeing these days and people simply won't be able to play them or, like me, will simply choose not to.

I spent ages cursing at EA after installing Spore and finding they'd placed a rootkit on my PC. Took ages to get rid of the damn thing. I'm avoiding Aion for the same reason, I wanted to look into that game but I'm not taking chances with the malware bundled with it.

Originally posted by korat102

Originally posted by sepher

It's a complex matter, but the sum of it is of course piracy is bad, hurts our economy

 

Piracy may be bad but claiming that it hurts the economy is ridiculous. What do you think happens to the money saved by not buying a DVD or CD? It doesn't vanish into the ether, it gets spent elsewhere, therefore no difference to the economy at all.

I've heard lots of arguments from the media companies, all of them scaremongering hogwash. If they didn't churn out so much junk and have such stupid restrictions on what we can do with what we've paid for, they wouldn't be in this mess now.

I'd like to see a try before you buy model of some sort but the media companies would never go for that. They know 99.9% of what they churn out would never sell if people could try it first.

Just because pirates save money doesn't mean the economy isn't hurt.

Piracy leads to vendors increasing prices on products and services to help offset losses; which is why software like Windows cost as much as it does. So the good majority of honest people are paying more. Other obvious factors in lost revenues matter as well, like jobs that are loss or aren't created at all. Lost reveneus also bleed over into lost tax revenues; which is why the anti-piracy pitches in Washington work so well.

And again, no one is ever going to buy the "they aren't doing enough" crap. EA pulled DRM from the Sims 3 and it was still pirated. So why should organizations like the ESA ever buy a remark like "such stupid restrictions on what we can do" when obviously its a non-factor in whether you will or won't pirate their works?

And what planet are we on? Do demos not exist for games anymore? Can we not preview songs on last.fm and iTunes? Can we not do the same on NetFlix? Has individual book vendors stopped offering up sample chapters and big sites like Amazon their "Peek Inside" deal?

Even before all this internet craziness; whatever stopped you from flipping through the pages of a book or putting on headphones in a record shop?

When have we ever been without "try before you buy"?

Originally posted by PeterPorker

Originally posted by sepher

Originally posted by Lille7

Just thought i throw this out there: http://torrentfreak.com/artists-abused-in-pirate-bay-trial-strike-back-090602/

 

It's not the ones making the music that is losing money to piracy, it's the distributors, the record companies.

 

No. Artists lose money as well, since they're due to earn a certain amount of dollars and cents per unit sold. Naturally, they're due to lose a certain amount of dollars and cents per unit not sold.

 

You know what that percentage is dude? Try maybe $.90 royalty on top named bands for every $16.98 cd sold, which does not include recoupment costs and other reductions they will get charged..

this is after they have sold enough to retrn the recoupment costs which are basically loans... $250,000 recording time, $100,000 marketng, $150,000 production costs, etc etc etc etc etc, and they have an entire book made on reduction fee's and royalty concepts..

Basically it comes down to pennies............And the pennies are only made if the band sells 1,000,000+ there aint no money in it and very few do this.. Please dont debate of what you have no clue about
 

On what point exactly did I have no clue about? All you did was agree with me that artists do lose money due to piracy.

You even emphasized my point that artists are hurt as well; since the labels get paid from the start and only then do artists make money if they sell pass a certain threshold. So what happens when pirates to prevent that? The labels can stand to recoup what they spent by the artists receive nill.

Any underlying sentiment towards poor artists underneath mean labels I don't really care about, it can't be used as justification to steal money from the both of them because they're both against piracy. It's like going to your friend's job and stealing off of the shelves just because you don't like his boss. You sure did your friend a favor.

Originally posted by PeterPorker

Sorry but you are borderline psychotic and have no clue what freedom of information is or what they want control of.. LOL
 

Slinging baseless insults does not support your position.

As we read we see some for what they really are. They KNOW things, about musicians, or what ever and how they work and what they really make and need HAHA yet never been there.

We see some lie to the, self's so much that what they are doing is not wrong.. its not a crime. like "Acting illegally does not make you a criminal. Committing a crime does."Piracy is not a crime. Not in any country in the world." The advert at the start of the movie says "Piracy is Theft". It isn't." haha

Or we have the ones that say piracy is awful and wrong, its a crime and it really bothers them. We all do something. Lie about taxes or don't pay that ticket or run the stop sign blah blah blah. They come back with"oh that's different its not the same" like its a little crime not a big one. Oh is just theft not a crime so I'm that like them..

So for those that SAY its not wrong lol.. sit in a room where NO ONE can see them and say it all day. You can TRY to twist words all you want its still wrong. And again as we read there are those that no matter what you say they KNOW what their doing is not wrong.

So who are some of you that KNOW musicians, gaming company's should be giving there music, games away for free? Yet anything you have MADE or done you give away for free too huh. Your time is free huh.

Like I said those that have no problem with this sit in a room where they KNOW no one will see them or hear them.. yeah your the smart one.

So don't do to others what you don't want done to you. We as we can read, there will aways be those that don't have and know those that do have should give it to them. These are like the people that see accident on the road and drive by very slow and just watch or hear that girl, wife, kid getting beat next door and turn a deaf ear lol... someone else will help.. or someone else will BUY IT! yeah yeah I know thats not the same lol this is just a theft its not bad..

We emal, call up and ask that gaming company or record company or that musician friend we all have if they mind or think or can shows us if we download their game or song is worng or ok.. go do it and report back.

Go back and hide and watch.

--
"We should not judge life by the number of breaths we take, but on the moments that take our breath away"

I agree.

At least I'm pretty sure I agree.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by baff

 

People will always take a freebie first if it's available. You can't turn back time. You can't uninvent the wheel.

No, actually some people used to understand that stealing was wrong.  They respected the people that made the music that they loved.

  For all of their evils, one GREAT thing record labels did was to screen out all of the crap bands who's careers should rightfully end in a garage or the local pub.

 Ugh, you are so so wrong, there was a publisher ASCAP or some crap that charged fee's to radio stations and whatnot for quality entertainment, they had no competition, and one day doubled their prices, and everytime people opposed their direction, they threatened to raise their prices again.. Then BMI said heh, enough, go ahead and raise your prices, we DARE YOU and started streaming free amateur / semi proffessional quality music and took over 75% of the industry. Go read history, this actually is the same piracy crap we've debated for centuries... Quality has ZERO to do with anything. It's about technology stealing user creativity which is what these copyright lamers are trying to do so they get all the money tahts available.

The record industry has always had its share of problems.

No amount of armwaving on your part is going to change the fact that piracy is dishonest and hurts both artists and fans.

You can rationalize all you want.

You wanted stuff.  You didn't want to pay for it.  You took it.  Everyone pays the price.

End of story.

Also I'm not fond of the way you made your words look like mine above.  That's a sleazy move, and exactly what I'd expect from someone with your "point of view."