I didn't mean to emphasize "feature complete". I was commenting mainly on the design, which is use it to improve it skills, FFA PvP, FPS style arrows and spells.

I'ts not a design I care for, and one I think will never be  overly popular, but if Devs can make niche games with these features on a budget that lets them make a profit, that's great.

As far as teh graphic argument goes, I liked EQ2 graphics. Darkfall, I find to be very brown. Taht's how the whole game strike me, just brown. Very, very brown. Doesn't make it feel more "realistic" to me, just makes it seem more brown.

Feature complete is a bullshit term.  Any MMORPG will always be lacking in things that some player considers a musthave.  By becoming "feature complete," you also invariably compromise in a number of areas.  I've rarely seen a game that tried to do everything master them all.  At best, they can be good in one area and barely passable in the others.

I think you might do better positing a more specific question because you probably have some specific scenario in mind.  For instance, what if Darkfall added X, Y, and Z to crafting and enhanced its social/conquest systems by adding X/Y/Z?  That might help us out more.

If you want to look purely at what the game "needs", there is another way to examine the question.  I stated prior to launch that Darkfall's only hope was being another EVE Online.  When EVE started, it had a lot of exploits, a very tiny playerbase, and a lot of buggy/half-finished features.  CCP was also a very small studio from the middle of nowhere.  Their game's small playerbase still loved it and stuck by it, and by being smart with their spending and dev priorities, CCP scraped through and eventually molded EVE into a AAA product.  Darkfall seems to have fulfilled the first part of this story.  Against all odds, it released in a somewhat playable state, and some people enjoy it.  I'm not going to speculate on the fate of Darkfall a few years down the road, but its possible for Aventurine to become the next CCP.

So looking at the question from a longterm survival perspective, the only feature the game really needs to be feature complete is an intangible: a significant fun factor to keep people playing while they flesh the game out.  A million factors go into providing this, and you could add all the features in the world and still miss it.

If you're looking at "necessary" features to provide the advertised experience, I think Darkfall is more or less "feature complete" now.  PvP games of this type, the "hardcore" pseudosim, really aren't about combat or looking great.  Historically, successful games of this type have been defined by their social and political features, and I think Aventurine realizes this.  I don't mean social as in myspace bullshit.  If you're going to have a game like this work, it needs to launch with the ability to control and capture territory, tangible rewards for doing so, and a complex built-in manager for guilds, alliances, at-war settings, etc.  You also need significant non-combat activities.  Look at how much of EVE is crafting and gathering, for instance.

The list goes on for quite a while, but I think you all know what I'm talking about.  Darkfall has most of this stuff.  Right now they just need to add content and lots and lots of polish.

And yes, you can have content in a purely player-driven game.  In fact, I'd say a purely player-driven game needs it as much as a more channeled experience.  The point of MMORPG content is to add variety and provide new experiences.  Content here comes in the form of new PvP options, different rewards (not greater, as pointless power creep isn't too enticing to this brand of PvP'er), and new play experiences in the form of new classes/abilities/etc.

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

sorry but I find the term "european" to describe the art style of Morrownd and Darkfall to be stupid and I dont care who came up with it.

to re-cap.

1. I dont care about character models, never have, never will

2. I think we can ALL agree that "good art" depends on the viewer. I find EQ2, WoW to be borderline cartoonish and insulting while I find Morrowind and Darkfall to be ...wait for it...good art.

3. Regardless of the reality behind it all here is the physcological impact the following games have for me.

Crysis = realistic

Morrowind/DF = artisticallty realistic

EQ2/WoW = cartoon

 

and these impressions to me are not subtle but rather instantly radical.

oh and I do NOT consider DF to be "gothic"

added: wait I had to process this a bit. color has nothing to do with sytle? ok well I guess for all of us un art inclinded that sounds a little stupid. process that statement a bit for the common man "color has nothing to do with style"

 

Far be it from me to continue pointing out that you make it a habbit to write about things you know nothing about.

Games have a phsycological impact on you?

I am going out on a limb here and going to say that actually I in fact do know what I am talking about when I am refering to what my personal specific reaction is when I see those games which is what I was refering to.

Are you going to try and suggest to me that when I log into the Darkfall and have an instant visual positive reaction far better than i do in EQ2 that in fact I am wrong and that the reaction did not in fact happen?

I did NOT say Crysis IS realistic I said my REACTION of the games are as follows. As in the first words that come to my head when I log in.

Crysis = Realistic

EQ2 = cartoonish

Darkfall = fictionally realistic

FACTUAL OR NOT. these are the words that come up in my head the second I log into those games. But no, clearly "i dont know what I am talking about when refering to my personal reaction"
 

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

sorry but I find the term "european" to describe the art style of Morrownd and Darkfall to be stupid and I dont care who came up with it.

to re-cap.

1. I dont care about character models, never have, never will

2. I think we can ALL agree that "good art" depends on the viewer. I find EQ2, WoW to be borderline cartoonish and insulting while I find Morrowind and Darkfall to be ...wait for it...good art.

3. Regardless of the reality behind it all here is the physcological impact the following games have for me.

Crysis = realistic

Morrowind/DF = artisticallty realistic

EQ2/WoW = cartoon

 

and these impressions to me are not subtle but rather instantly radical.

oh and I do NOT consider DF to be "gothic"

added: wait I had to process this a bit. color has nothing to do with sytle? ok well I guess for all of us un art inclinded that sounds a little stupid. process that statement a bit for the common man "color has nothing to do with style"

 

Far be it from me to continue pointing out that you make it a habbit to write about things you know nothing about.

Games have a phsycological impact on you?

 

I am going out on a limb here and going to say that actually I in fact do know what I am talking about when I am refering to what my personal specific reaction is when I see those games which is what I was refering to.

Are you going to try and suggest to me that when I log into the Darkfall and have an instant visual positive reaction far better than i do in EQ2 that in fact I am wrong and that the reaction did not in fact happen?

I did NOT say Crysis IS realistic I said my REACTION of the games are as follows. As in the first words that come to my head when I log in.

Crysis = Realistic

EQ2 = cartoonish

Darkfall = fictionally realistic

FACTUAL OR NOT. these are the words that come up in my head the second I log into those games. But no, clearly "i dont know what I am talking about when refering to my personal reaction"
 

I think WoW is cartoonish, not EQ2. Opinions will differ I suppose.

EQ2

WoW

Darkfall: (very brown, not realistic, the world isn't really brown)

Here's a pic of the real world (in case you can't look out your window from your computer.)

Which one looks more like the real world?

TO ME AND IN MY OPINION AND GUT EMTIONAL REATION ...read below

again I am telling you the emotional reaction I get when I see those three games I am NOT saying that its techically accurate.

Also, on the darkfall post. If you want colors just take a screen shot of elf lands for christ sake.

And yes, WoW is even more of a cartoon TO ME but to me EQ2 is a cartoon now that I have played some other games TO ME.

and anyone who thinks all of Darkfall is brown just hasnt explored enough

What if? Well no difference because:

DF Elite / Heroes player = Means use Hacks

DF Pro player = Means use Scripts.

Don't believe me? Trolling? I dare you! Double dare you!! Go create an account and see for yourself. This ain't no game, it's a playground. Don't come to me with that 'but approx. just 1 out of 5 players is a hacker here'. One Big Hack/Exploit/Macro game. Get the **** out of my way with this POS. Paying for this means ruining the MMO scene. 

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

TO ME AND IN MY OPINION AND GUT EMTIONAL REATION ...read below

again I am telling you the emotional reaction I get when I see those three games I am NOT saying that its techically accurate.

Also, on the darkfall post. If you want colors just take a screen shot of elf lands for christ sake.

And yes, WoW is even more of a cartoon TO ME but to me EQ2 is a cartoon now that I have played some other games TO ME.

and anyone who thinks all of Darkfall is brown just hasnt explored enough

 

 

I think the Elf lands are still kinda brown.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

 

I think the Elf lands are still kinda brown.

well true they dont have all the pretty solid blues, and auqa whatever that can be found in darklight woods in EQ2 but it is what it is.

 Although the pure pink landscape of whatever that floating ilsland zone in EQ2 is was kinda cute

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

 

I think the Elf lands are still kinda brown.

 

well true they dont have all the pretty solid blues, and auqa whatever that can be found in darklight woods in EQ2 but it is what it is.

 Although the pure pink landscape of whatever that floating ilsland zone in EQ2 is was kinda cute

not only the eq2 graphics are fluffy and comical at best, i also heard the devs patched that hitting 1, 5, 6 randomly with closed eyes will make every crafted item pristine. eq2 sucks. :(

Originally posted by pwnzorellOr

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

 

I think the Elf lands are still kinda brown.

 

well true they dont have all the pretty solid blues, and auqa whatever that can be found in darklight woods in EQ2 but it is what it is.

 Although the pure pink landscape of whatever that floating ilsland zone in EQ2 is was kinda cute

 

not only the eq2 graphics are fluffy and comical at best, i also heard the devs patched that hitting 1, 5, 6 randomly with closed eyes will make every crafted item pristine. eq2 sucks. :(

Still think DF is kinda brown. It's like the artists had some sort of color blindness or something, and couldn't tell the whole thing looked really brown. I can't imagine you would intentionally make an entire game brown.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

 

Still think DF is kinda brown. It's like the artists had some sort of color blindness or something, and couldn't tell the whole thing looked really brown. I can't imagine you would intentionally make an entire game brown.

I guess its just psychological preference. I find a great many of the newer zones in EQ2 to be insultingly filled with what feels to me as cartoonish colors. EQ2, Darklight Woods for example I just find personally emotionally insulting.

If it worked, I would play it. That means introducing a skill cap as well. Right now its players with all the skills, running around w/ the best equipment. And its a grind. Sandboxes are not meant to be grinds.

Originally posted by sofak

If it worked, I would play it. That means introducing a skill cap as well. Right now its players with all the skills, running around w/ the best equipment. And its a grind. Sandboxes are not meant to be grinds.

it is not a grind

only for those that make it so and those who are hard core about PvP action.

I dont grind.

Also, the ligit non-grind players are now starting to catch up stat wise with the grinders and the grinders are now starting to leave. kind of funny that way.
 

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

 

Still think DF is kinda brown. It's like the artists had some sort of color blindness or something, and couldn't tell the whole thing looked really brown. I can't imagine you would intentionally make an entire game brown.

 

I guess its just psychological preference. I find a great many of the newer zones in EQ2 to be insultingly filled with what feels to me as cartoonish colors. EQ2, Darklight Woods for example I just find personally emotionally insulting.

Nope, not at all. Lots of people agree with the "excess brown", it does not mean the game is bad. What do you mean with "cartoonish colors"? I've seen plenty of colorful stuff that has nothing to do with being cartoony or not.

Originally posted by Routver

 

Nope, not at all. Lots of people agree with the "excess brown", it does not mean the game is bad. What do you mean with "cartoonish colors"? I've seen plenty of colorful stuff that has nothing to do with being cartoony or not.

I really want to find away to avoid another "cartoonish" arguement while at the same time having everyone understand clearly that the first word that comes to MY HEAD when I enter the Darklight Woods and its city area of EQ2 is "cartoonish" even though I might be 100000000% worng, its still my first reaction and that will never change and it will always look and feel insulting to me.

 screen shot of what I am talking about

http://www.norrath-news.com/wp-content/neriak_city_0.jpg

 Sorry but to my eyes Darkfall is not only artistically better, more realistic but its even technically better TO MY UNDEDUCATED RETARDED EYES. That is how i feel even though I am clearly wrong according to posters here, it will not change my perference. I really reallly really do not want to play a game that looks like the screen shot above.

 I DO however want to play a "brown" game like this

http://zyukmw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pQMgpBmQkytgkv8XtePixtg6uHCtAdTv9VUaBKvYhnMemeh8f0O15bTfoRPA7YK_EZbkX7PwvTMHcpsIdbnvtUg/playercity2.jpg

http://zyukmw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p6YfAaJt4gkUj5gO-FjA5Pil17SxTGjNJWhwC4I5CHUsm3fSMYpez975iAWPJtW2PrpQ7rGu2WzG9cqMp5Dec1Q/playercity.jpg

for the op, if darkfall were feature complete, with great graphics; then, it would be a completely different game, with a completely different  development team.

Originally posted by Wycliffe

I think EQ2 has the best textures of all MMOs on the market. Darkfall doesn't come close to EQ2 in the graphics department. Only AoC does; and well beats EQ2 for the most part. That said, Darkfall looks fine. If you put the game on high settings it looks pretty good except for certain things like the fire effect (which is pretty awful). Most people complaining about the graphics probably haven't played; if you are basing it off fraps you saw on youtube or something, just keep in mind that most people run the game at the lowest possible settings.

run the game at the lowest possible settings, in order to pvp, in a pvp-centric game.

um... i guess you could crank up the video settings and slowly move around, hoping that the lag isn't anyone about to kill you...

Originally posted by busdriver

Had AV made the game they claimed to be doing for all those years, it would've pwnt every other MMORPG out there. Instead they "forgot" to add half of the features, (or they were very poorly implemented) case in point, dynamic mob spawns. I also love the "there will be no grind in Darkfall!" declaration. Biggest fucking grind I've ever seen.

this.  plus all the insane hacking that happens.

game pattern is failure ..less than 50% of the announced features has  been implented to the game

nothxbyebye