Originally posted by Magnum2103

The differences between the PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware are minor at best.  Some graphical techniques perform better on the Xbox 360 while others perform better on the PS3.  If you program your game well enough there should be no difference or the game should play on both system's strengths.  Several game sites such as Gamespot have done comparisons by game and the results tend to vary from game to game.

You didn't even delve into the fact that PS3 supports 1080p, or that PS3 just outperforms the Xbox, if they dumb the graphics down so that it'll play on the Xbox, I won't even buy it.

The only reason I would ever buy a PS3 MMO>PC MMO would be graphics, considering my PS3 kicks the shit out of my PC.

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Originally posted by Magnum2103

The differences between the PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware are minor at best.  Some graphical techniques perform better on the Xbox 360 while others perform better on the PS3.  If you program your game well enough there should be no difference or the game should play on both system's strengths.  Several game sites such as Gamespot have done comparisons by game and the results tend to vary from game to game.

 

You didn't even delve into the fact that PS3 supports 1080p, or that PS3 just outperforms the Xbox, if they dumb the graphics down so that it'll play on the Xbox, I won't even buy it.

The only reason I would ever buy a PS3 MMO>PC MMO would be graphics, considering my PS3 kicks the shit out of my PC.

Wow, why not show complete ignorance of the console market.  Where you ever got the impression the PS3 out performs the xbox is beyond me.  The only thing good on the PS3 is the blue ray reader and even that is marginalized since blueray has failed to take off.   Programmers hate the PS3, it is a nightmare to program, hence so many titles for the xbox.   If your PS3 kicks the heck out of your PC you must have an ancient PC,  Besides the people who bought  bargin PCs, almost any PC built in the last couple years blows the PS3 out of the water.  Next time discuss a subject you have at least a little knowledge about.

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Originally posted by Magnum2103

The differences between the PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware are minor at best.  Some graphical techniques perform better on the Xbox 360 while others perform better on the PS3.  If you program your game well enough there should be no difference or the game should play on both system's strengths.  Several game sites such as Gamespot have done comparisons by game and the results tend to vary from game to game.

 

You didn't even delve into the fact that PS3 supports 1080p, or that PS3 just outperforms the Xbox, if they dumb the graphics down so that it'll play on the Xbox, I won't even buy it.

The only reason I would ever buy a PS3 MMO>PC MMO would be graphics, considering my PS3 kicks the shit out of my PC.

M$ press confrence said 1080p support on Xbox 360 'soon'. So you can take that off your list of hate.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Originally posted by Magnum2103

The differences between the PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware are minor at best.  Some graphical techniques perform better on the Xbox 360 while others perform better on the PS3.  If you program your game well enough there should be no difference or the game should play on both system's strengths.  Several game sites such as Gamespot have done comparisons by game and the results tend to vary from game to game.

 

You didn't even delve into the fact that PS3 supports 1080p, or that PS3 just outperforms the Xbox, if they dumb the graphics down so that it'll play on the Xbox, I won't even buy it.

The only reason I would ever buy a PS3 MMO>PC MMO would be graphics, considering my PS3 kicks the shit out of my PC.

 

Wow, why not show complete ignorance of the console market.  Where you ever got the impression the PS3 out performs the xbox is beyond me.  The only thing good on the PS3 is the blue ray reader and even that is marginalized since blueray has failed to take off.   Programmers hate the PS3, it is a nightmare to program, hence so many titles for the xbox.   If your PS3 kicks the heck out of your PC you must have an ancient PC,  Besides the people who bought  bargin PCs, almost any PC built in the last couple years blows the PS3 out of the water.  Next time discuss a subject you have at least a little knowledge about.

I dont know where you got the info that programmers hate the PS3 but any new dev program is difficult to get the hang of. Developing have had over 9 years of experience with DVD. If you payed attention to sony's E3 you'd see that they are coming out with more quality exclusives than ever. PS3 out performs the xbox because it has superior hardware. Better graphics card, better online capabilites, and it supports blu ray not just to watch movies but for the 50GB of  disk space, so they dont have to compress the files lowering the quality of graphics.

I think there is no denying that the specs on the PS3 is better.

You are talking about a 3 core system verse a 6 core active system.  Difference of 512MB Ram to 256MB Ram.  The games that will be developed for it have to be different from the ways the models are made to the way its programed.  A game designed specifically for the PS3 will not run well for an XBox360 which FFXIV is.

Here is why I think the XBox360 has already met its limits.  Its based on the standard model for making games, and uses PC hardware. It makes it easy to judge its limitations.  The PS3 on the other hand uses tech that isn't widely distributed on the PC with techniques that are before its time.  If you were to develop for the PS3 traditionally, then you would hit its limits sooner.  However, you can do things that were not possible with a game before because of the hardware in the PS3.  You can achieve a higher amount of calculations every 60th of a second which you should take advantage of by adding more advancing physics and gameplay.  The lower memory means you have to throttle back on texture size, or use higher poly models with tiled textures.

Originally posted by KingKaio

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Originally posted by Magnum2103

The differences between the PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware are minor at best.  Some graphical techniques perform better on the Xbox 360 while others perform better on the PS3.  If you program your game well enough there should be no difference or the game should play on both system's strengths.  Several game sites such as Gamespot have done comparisons by game and the results tend to vary from game to game.

 

You didn't even delve into the fact that PS3 supports 1080p, or that PS3 just outperforms the Xbox, if they dumb the graphics down so that it'll play on the Xbox, I won't even buy it.

The only reason I would ever buy a PS3 MMO>PC MMO would be graphics, considering my PS3 kicks the shit out of my PC.

 

Wow, why not show complete ignorance of the console market.  Where you ever got the impression the PS3 out performs the xbox is beyond me.  The only thing good on the PS3 is the blue ray reader and even that is marginalized since blueray has failed to take off.   Programmers hate the PS3, it is a nightmare to program, hence so many titles for the xbox.   If your PS3 kicks the heck out of your PC you must have an ancient PC,  Besides the people who bought  bargin PCs, almost any PC built in the last couple years blows the PS3 out of the water.  Next time discuss a subject you have at least a little knowledge about.

 

I dont know where you got the info that programmers hate the PS3 but any new dev program is difficult to get the hang of. Developing have had over 9 years of experience with DVD. If you payed attention to sony's E3 you'd see that they are coming out with more quality exclusives than ever. PS3 out performs the xbox because it has superior hardware. Better graphics card, better online capabilites, and it supports blu ray not just to watch movies but for the 50GB of  disk space, so they dont have to compress the files lowering the quality of graphics.

A 7800 is hardly a stunning graphic card, the Xbox has the same online capability except Microsoft charges to play regular multiplayer ( they don't charge to play mmos such as FFXI ), and again for the millonth time the Xbox 360 having a hard drive negates any advantage Blu-Ray has as far as storage. all the client files can be placed uncompressed on the 360 hard drive.

As for Sony having more quality exclusives coming, they've lost their quality exclusives: Final Fantasy and Metal Gear being just two of the big ones.

And where does the idea of developers not liking to program for the PS3 come from? How about the developers themselves?

Shaun Himmerick, developer of Wheelman:

“The politically incorrect answer is that the PS3 is a huge pain in the ass. Anyone making a game, if you’re going to make it for both Xbox 360 and PS3, just lead on the PS3 because if it works on the PS3 it’ll work on 360. The easiest way to look at it is, the 360 has one big chunk of memory, but the PS3 has two chunks of memory that in total are the same size as the Xbox, but because they’re split you can’t share memory the same way. That will bite you in the ass, and it bit us in the ass bad."

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John Carmack:

During a recent interview with the US gaming magazine, Game Informer, id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead revealed a little about the developer's future plans and their thoughts on the next-generation of consoles.

Revealing that their next title after Quake 4 will be for the Playstation3 and Xbox360, Hollenshead reported that Co-Founder, Technical Director and videogame legend John Carmack's impression of both systems was great for the Xbox360 and a pain in my ass for the more demanding Playstation3.

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Valve's Gabe Newell said in 2007--long before Sony's decline started--that the PlayStation 3 is a "waste of everyone's time." He went on to tell Edge Magazine that "investing in the Cell...gives you no long-term benefits. There's nothing there that you're going to apply to anything else. You're not going to gain anything except a hatred of the architecture they've created. I don't think it's a good solution."

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Kaz Harai, C.E.O. in charge ofPlaystation:

In one of the most shocking and bizarre comments ever made by a company chief, Hirai, the brains behind the entire PlayStation empire, explained to the Official PlayStation Magazine in its February issue that Sony didn't want to make it easy on developers.

"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.

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I happen to agree with Don Reisenger of Digital home:

I won't debate that the PS3 may have "a lot more to offer," but I do take issue with Sony's justification for it. What good is a powerful console, if developers don't know how to get the most out of it? I simply don't see anything positive about making things too difficult on developers.

The video game industry is unique because hardware makers rely on third parties to be successful. The more games a console has, the more likely people will want it. But if development is too challenging for third parties, I'm hard-pressed to see how that will benefit Sony at all, even though developers can do more with the console.

Developers are looking at the installed bases of consoles. realizing that Microsoft has more units in the wild. Developers want to make their games as appealing as possible to those extra 8 million people. So spending extra time (a luxury most developers don't have) on PS3 development just plain doesn't make sense.

 And finally,

@Cleffy: It doesn't matter if the PS3 had a 10 core processor. The processor for PS3 is not made for running graphics, it is purely for analytical calculations. AI yes, physics yes, graphics no.The modified 7800 vid card will bottleneck the PS3 regardless of how many cores its cpu has.

John Carmack makes mediocre games and he is in Micro$oft's pocket, and the developer of 'Wheelman'.......LMAO 

Like I said any new dev program is hard on programmers when it first comes out, John Carmack himself said in that 2006 interveiw you brought up that the PS3 has more power. The upcoming MGS game is not a big lose for sony its not exclusive to 360 and FF VS XIII is still PS3 exclusives. Sony's 2009 E3  had 31+ exclusives compared to 360's 7.

AND Final Fantasy XIV is still not on the 360. You can look into and blow up the word "CONSIDER" all you want to. Project Rapture AKA Final Fantasy XIV was stated to be released for 360 from the very begining even before PS3, why do you think they would have it ready for PS3 and PC but not for 360 all of sudden?

 Enjoy your RROD and Disk errors.

Originally posted by KingKaio

John Carmack makes mediocre games and he is in Micro$oft's pocket, and the developer of 'Wheelman'.......LMAO 

Like I said any new dev program is hard on programmers when it first comes out, John Carmack himself said in that 2006 interveiw you brought up that the PS3 has more power. The upcoming MGS game is not a big lose for sony its not exclusive to 360 and FF VS XIII is still PS3 exclusives. Sony's 2009 E3  had 31+ exclusives compared to 360's 7. Enjoy your RROD and Disk errors.

Spoken like a true fanboy. And I couldnt exactly understand your post, but I thought you said FFXIII was a ps3 exclusive? If so, WRONG. Go watch the M$ press confrence, it's going there also.

Originally posted by KingKaio

John Carmack makes mediocre games and he is in Micro$oft's pocket, and the developer of 'Wheelman'.......LMAO 

And what about the others, or do you just pick the ones you don't like to TRY to suport your lost argument?

Like I said any new dev program is hard on programmers when it first comes out, John Carmack himself said in that 2006 interveiw you brought up that the PS3 has more power. The upcoming MGS game is not a big lose for sony its not exclusive to 360 and FF VS XIII is still PS3 exclusives. Sony's 2009 E3  had 31+ exclusives compared to 360's 7. Enjoy your RROD and Disk errors.

Had my Xbox 360 for over two years, no RROD or disk errors yet. Come up with another argument.

And Wheelman is a new game, does that mean the PS3 is still "just coming out"?

The comment from Kaz Harai was Feb of '09. Pretty recent to me.

As evidenced by your desperate "RROD" comment, you're just flailing around in your fanboi death throes now and should just back away quietly.

You apparently dont know what your talking about. Final Fantasy Versus XIII is exclusive to PS3. And who cares about Quake 4, I have absolutly not intrest in playing that.

Final Fantasy Versus XIII

http://www.square-enix.co.jp/fabula/versus13/

Originally posted by sanders01

Originally posted by KingKaio

John Carmack makes mediocre games and he is in Micro$oft's pocket, and the developer of 'Wheelman'.......LMAO 

Like I said any new dev program is hard on programmers when it first comes out, John Carmack himself said in that 2006 interveiw you brought up that the PS3 has more power. The upcoming MGS game is not a big lose for sony its not exclusive to 360 and FF VS XIII is still PS3 exclusives. Sony's 2009 E3  had 31+ exclusives compared to 360's 7. Enjoy your RROD and Disk errors.

Spoken like a true fanboy. And I couldnt exactly understand your post, but I thought you said FFXIII was a ps3 exclusive? If so, WRONG. Go watch the M$ press confrence, it's going there also.

He's referring to FFXII versus, which is for PS3. And another FFXIII version will be on PSP also, he forgot to mentio that. Guess we should bow down to the awesome computational power of the PSp now, also.

Chances are that Versus will end up on 360 also, anyway. Sony seems to be getting little more than "launch exclusives" nowadays.

Originally posted by KingKaio

You apparently dont know what your talking about. Final Fantasy Versus XIII is exclusive to PS3. And who cares about Quake 4, I have absolutly not intrest in playing that.

 

Final Fantasy Versus XIII

http://www.square-enix.co.jp/fabula/versus13/

 

So in other words, you not having an interest in what the developer of a game says is based on whether you like the game or not? LOL

Keep 'em coming, you're digging the hole deeper every time and I love it.

By the way, what are some of these 31+ great PS3 exclusives? FreeRealms? LOL

Originally posted by natuxatu

clearly some people don't know what they are talking about. it wouldn't be dumbed down it's the same game.

No one cares except PS3 fanbois who like to feel elite.

The only reason I think anyone would play it on a console is for convience. Family members that use the internet or limited computer time. Which is a good reason but nevertheless it's not a big deal.

This post FTW.... I could care less I have all 3 consoles, dont ask :P   For shit's an giggles I have even loaded up the same game when a friend brings the same copy over, I can't see any differences on my 60inch 1080P HDTV...And if you look at gamespot they actually compare the graphics and though they say the 360 wins in most tests, again I think its to close to call and varies game to game. I haven't seen one thing that either console can do that I feel like "O I wish my other console made games look like that".

That being said if I play the game I might play it on a console as well, its a good change and the recliner does sound nice. If they come out at the same time ill get it on the 360 because I like the controller abit better, if the PS3 comes out first ill grab it on that and have no regrets. If you want a good laugh go over gamespots console war's and watch them argue over these two. And btw I can guarantee you if they even come close to unleashing the games full graphical potential on the PC there will a lot more dumbed down from the PC to the consoles than from the PS3 to 360. These consoles were 2005-2006 were talking 2010 PC power when the game releases.

Umm I thought the 360 had a better GPU and the PS3 had a better CPU so they exceled at different areas in graphics.

Originally posted by KingKaio

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by mrroboto40

Originally posted by Magnum2103

The differences between the PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware are minor at best.  Some graphical techniques perform better on the Xbox 360 while others perform better on the PS3.  If you program your game well enough there should be no difference or the game should play on both system's strengths.  Several game sites such as Gamespot have done comparisons by game and the results tend to vary from game to game.

 

You didn't even delve into the fact that PS3 supports 1080p, or that PS3 just outperforms the Xbox, if they dumb the graphics down so that it'll play on the Xbox, I won't even buy it.

The only reason I would ever buy a PS3 MMO>PC MMO would be graphics, considering my PS3 kicks the shit out of my PC.

 

Wow, why not show complete ignorance of the console market.  Where you ever got the impression the PS3 out performs the xbox is beyond me.  The only thing good on the PS3 is the blue ray reader and even that is marginalized since blueray has failed to take off.   Programmers hate the PS3, it is a nightmare to program, hence so many titles for the xbox.   If your PS3 kicks the heck out of your PC you must have an ancient PC,  Besides the people who bought  bargin PCs, almost any PC built in the last couple years blows the PS3 out of the water.  Next time discuss a subject you have at least a little knowledge about.

 

I dont know where you got the info that programmers hate the PS3 but any new dev program is difficult to get the hang of. Developing have had over 9 years of experience with DVD. If you payed attention to sony's E3 you'd see that they are coming out with more quality exclusives than ever. PS3 out performs the xbox because it has superior hardware. Better graphics card, better online capabilites, and it supports blu ray not just to watch movies but for the 50GB of  disk space, so they dont have to compress the files lowering the quality of graphics.

Like to post nonsense, you are certainly good at it.  Actually, if you would do any searches on the web you would see an overwhelming dislike of the PS3 by the people that program it.   Programming graphics for the PS3 is a real pain in the ass.  Hence the lack of titles for it.  Again I don't know of any game that stresses the normal DVD storage space to justify the expensive blue ray.   There have been a lot of stories on the web lately how blue ray is more or less a stop gap measure to technologies coming down the line.

As to the PS3 being better than the xbox, that is debatable.  They both do different things well.  I have seen the same titles on both and cannot see the difference.  Same with 1080p, the differences are so minor as to be ludicrous to argue about.

Secondly, I can build a pc with $300 in parts that blows away a PS3 in any situation.  You console bigots need to get out more.

Originally posted by Arndur

Umm I thought the 360 had a better GPU and the PS3 had a better CPU so they exceled at different areas in graphics.

From Tom's Hardware:

" The "RSX" GPU in the PS3 is literally a 7900GT at 550MHz with 8 ROPs disabled, and only 256MB of DDR3 1400MHz on a 128-bit memory bus. The Cell Processor is a custom IBM Power PC CPU and it's completely unlike anything we've ever seen, or likely will ever see in a desktop PC. It's not necessarily faster or slower than what you could put in your desktop, just different. It uses the Power PC instruction set, and is an in order processor, and is asymmetrical. The main core known as the PPU in the Cell is basically the same as one of the cores in the Xbox360's Xenos CPU; the Cell in the PS3 also has 7 SPEs (originally 8 but 1 was disabled to improve yields) and 1 of the SPEs is reserved to the PS3's OS, so developers really only have access to 6 of them. If you were doing something that required a lot of branch prediction, any semi-current desktop CPU would beat the Cell. Where the Cell shows its power is with scientific applications due to its massive FP performance, which would outperform even the QX9770 because that's all it was designed to do. If you take a look at the folding@home statistics, there are roughly 6 times as many active donors on Windows than there are PS3 donors, yet the PS3 group has a total performance rating a little over 5x higher than the Windows group. "

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As you can see, the PS3 graphics card is a chopped up 7900GT ( more along the lines of an OC'd 7800 ). And the Cell processor is suited mainly for straightforward calculations ( such as in SETI and folding@home number crunching ). As I said in an earlier post in reply to Cleffy, the Cell is great for AI, limited physics calculations, etc., but that's it. It relies on a gimped vid card for its graphic capabilities. And even the Cell itself is gimped, having only 6 of 8 SPEs useable by devs.

Also, another thing that makes the PS3 difficult for those developing multi-platform ( PS3, Xbox 360, and PC ) games is the fact the PS3 does not support directX but openGL. So two platforms ( PC and 360 ) can be developed for easily together while the PS3 has to be developed for by itself due to both its cpu and its graphic architecture, which increases dev time and expenses.

Originally posted by jakojako

i don't see how someone would rather play an mmo on a console over a pc...

Only reason I can see someone playing mmo's on a console over a pc is if your pc can't handle it or if you don't have a pc... but 95% of the time that's not the case

 

not that i have a problem with that or anything, it's just that it seems that a console mmo community would be extremely small and the game would be dumbed down a lot

Meh I don't think your being fair

I play'd FFXI and had it on both console and computer. And it was REALLY nice to have it on both. I enjoyed the large screen better (console and TV set-up) and I just hooked a keyboard into the 360. and it had the exact same key layout. but if the wife wanted to watch TV I could switch to my desktop. Or if i'm out of town on a job I could play on my laptop. But it is deffinitly nice to have both.

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by jakojako

i don't see how someone would rather play an mmo on a console over a pc...

Only reason I can see someone playing mmo's on a console over a pc is if your pc can't handle it or if you don't have a pc... but 95% of the time that's not the case

 

not that i have a problem with that or anything, it's just that it seems that a console mmo community would be extremely small and the game would be dumbed down a lot

 

Meh I don't think your being fair

I play'd FFXI and had it on both console and computer. And it was REALLY nice to have it on both. I enjoyed the large screen better (console and TV set-up) and I just hooked a keyboard into the 360. and it had the exact same key layout. but if the wife wanted to watch TV I could switch to my desktop. Or if i'm out of town on a job I could play on my laptop. But it is deffinitly nice to have both.

Sounds like you live a good life!

In my case, I don't have FFXI on my PS2, and I have it on my Xbox 360, but I only play it on PC. I've gotten used to moving around with the number pad, and I ended up prefering the keyboard (FFXI does not need a mouse) over the game pad.

I think as long as you own one of the platforms that FFXIV will be available in, there's not much to worry about. I won't care about "small" graphic differences if I'm enjoying a game.