Originally posted by BioNut

I really don't understand why one has to beat the other. BioWare is a successful company and probably has no intention to "beat" blizzard. Now, do they want to steal some subs from WoW? Yes of coarse but, I doubt they have daily "beat Blizzard" pep rallies in which they burn copies of WoW and sacrifice game cards to the MMO gods.

This whole competition thing is just for fanboys and bored forum posters to have something to argue about.

Besides, do we talk about how DICE has to beat Infinity Ward because they both make modern shooters with multiplayer components? No, of coarse not, but we may have opinions on which we enjoy more (I personlly play both games). This MMO competition with WoW crap needs to stop.

You know I bet there are a lot of companies that actually do hold such rallies. It actually does sound like fun, we should organize one as a joke.

All joking aside though business is all about beating your competitors. There is a huge difference between competition and a vendetta. Competition in and of itself is a healthy way of approaching things like a business, especially a business like the gaming industry. Bioware and Blizzard are now competitors, which is a good thing because it helps to rally their employees to do better and better work, which benefits us as consumers.

Both are very impressive companies that probably completely understand their markets. Both are extremely professional and have extremely experienced studios. Bioware has a lot more RPG experience under it's belt though, so it stands to reason that SW:TOR may actually put a huge wound into the gorilla that is WoW. It will -not- kill WoW though and it entirely has to do with the difference between fantasy and sci-fi games. This is a very complicated issue that deals with an in-depth study of demographics that cover multiple dimensions.

SW:TOR has every chance to be a huge success though. If you want to talk about which company is better then you have to define in what aspect. RPG's? Bioware is better, hands down. RTS? Bioware has never made an RTS that I'm aware of, so Blizzard wins. MMORPG? TOR fits into a different genre than WoW does, it's really hard to compare the two.

You'd be trying to compare blasters, lightsabers and vibroswords and the Force to bows, swords and magic. Not to mention you have ships (maybe space combat, probably not though) and energy shields versus griffons and steel armor. These are two very different genres that these MMO's fit into and you honestly can't compare then. Historically speaking fantasy games have sold better than sci-fi games, either because that's what the market force wants or because more fantasy games are made, or maybe both.

Good games always stand above genres though, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Originally posted by Smikis

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by BioNut

I really don't understand why one has to beat the other. BioWare is a successful company and probably has no intention to "beat" blizzard. Now, do they want to steal some subs from WoW? Yes of coarse but, I doubt they have daily "beat Blizzard" pep rallies in which they burn copies of WoW and sacrifice game cards to the MMO gods.

This whole competition thing is just for fanboys and bored forum posters to have something to argue about.

Besides, do we talk about how DICE has to beat Infinity Ward because they both make modern shooters with multiplayer components? No, of coarse not, but we may have opinions on which we enjoy more (I personlly play both games). This MMO competition with WoW crap needs to stop.

 

Well, Blizzard and Bioware have been in friendly competition ever since the Diablo-Balders gate (Not Baulders gate, OP) era.

man so many bioware fanboys, and noone can even spell baldurs game correctly.. its not balders its not bauldurs or what other random stuff.. i never played baldurs gate, nor been real bioware fanboy, first kotor was good, jade empire failed for me right from the start,

mass effect was great fun, and great game i still dont see it deserving more praise than wc games or sc, or any other good game from any other developer..

i dont thinkit  this mmo gona be something special, i have this feeling this is 2 months tops mmo, after which 60% subs will stop playing , do they rly have the story that good.. and  i mean story that can compete with witcher to keep me playing?

if you want to praise a game.. go praise witcher.. thats best story game ever, can bioware top that.. and make that story last for atleast 6 months?

they probably can top that.. but they wont make it last even 2 months. if someone like me will be playing 4-5 hours a day...

there is no pvp no crafting no edngame

we were told.. reroll

what kinda of mmo is that

ill take dragons age origin any time any day over tor.

 

as for blizz vs bioware, as many ppl said, thats different league, were you playing bioware games 15 years ago ? i was.. playing warcraft games.. was i playing bioware games.. no

do bioware have game that have its own lessons in school in particular country ?  or military actually allowing playing computer games.. and having its own team for tourneys?  ( starcraft korea.. both facts are real, )  no they dont

 

bioware is owned by ea.. thats only reason you ever need.. to know.. that bioware is just mediacory company which sold its soul to that atrosoty of a company ,

you can say blizz is owned by vivendi, but apart paying some part of profits or what else there might be , vivendi doesnt interact with blizzard

 

do you see vivendi sign on every blizz product or trailer.. no.. i dont even know how one looks

do i see ea sign on every new bioware trailer/product.. ofcs.. it takes 1/5 of trailer time to shown that god damn ea sign.. i hate you ea..

Did you really just call out someone's spelling when you have like 20 spelling and grammatical errors in your post......?

And just so you know, Warcraft came out in 94, Bioware's first game came out in 96 (Shattered Steel).  Hardly some crazy difference in time they have been around.  BGate come out in 98, and was one of the greatest RPG's ever released (with universal acclaim from critics and fans alike)....but since you didn't even play it you wouldn't know.

If you don't think the quality of story telling in their games is great, then no type of story driven game will be good to you.  To throw the Watcher (which has a great story I agree) out there as far superior in terms of story-telling to Bioware's games is laughable.  They have had at least as good, if not better story telling in almost every RPG they have released......

Originally posted by andmiller

Did you really just call out someone's spelling when you have like 20 spelling and grammatical errors in your post......?

And just so you know, Warcraft came out in 94, Bioware's first game came out in 96 (Shattered Steel).  Hardly some crazy difference in time they have been around.  BGate come out in 98, and was one of the greatest RPG's ever released (with universal acclaim from critics and fans alike)....but since you didn't even play it you wouldn't know.

If you don't think the quality of story telling in their games is great, then no type of story driven game will be good to you.  To throw the Watcher (which has a great story I agree) out there as far superior in terms of story-telling to Bioware's games is laughable.  They have had at least as good, if not better story telling in almost every RPG they have released......

 

I would have to Agree here. Bioware has never really droped the ball as far as story goes. They have a good story board team and given a chance to make a star wars MMO after not one but 2 Star wars titles that hit game of the year I am going to have to agree with this guy. 

Originally posted by Horkathane

I am rooting for Bioware, this is their time to shine! They have a perfect record of games and are a solid development team and will PWN Blizzard! Thats the deal, they are stepping up to the plate. Cmon lets look at the record

Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect and the King of all time RPG Baulders Gate Its over for Blizzard. Blizzard got lucky with Wow, it was their first rpg. Diablo was an Action rpg not the same. The Masters have come and its Bioware! Wow is going to get pummled!

I would prefer to see Baldur's Gate MMO, that would be awesome. I dislike Sci-Fi.

 Funny. And here I thought it was all about getting a good game that I can enjoy. 

How silly of me. 

Originally posted by Horkathane

I am rooting for Bioware, this is their time to shine! They have a perfect record of games and are a solid development team and will PWN Blizzard! Thats the deal, they are stepping up to the plate. Cmon lets look at the record

Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect and the King of all time RPG Baulders Gate Its over for Blizzard. Blizzard got lucky with Wow, it was their first rpg. Diablo was an Action rpg not the same. The Masters have come and its Bioware! Wow is going to get pummled!

I think one of the flaws in recent games has been this obsession with beating Blizzard or taking players from their very successful game.  This is why we've seen a plethora of poorly populated WoW clones, and a number of revamps that have WoWified live games and alienated entire player-communities.

Personally I expect that Bioware will make an excellent game.  As you say, they always seem to put quality first.  I hope that they focus on doing their own thing though, and don't get distracted by Blizzard.  I think there are millions of StarWars fans that are not playing WoW that would love to play a quality StarWars MMO with good customer service.  This is what was lacking in the first StarWars MMO, and hopefully LucasArts has learned from this experience.

Bioware has made some good single player games.i have yet to see a good MMORPG from them.

Beating Blizzard is laughable,because i would be embarrassed if Blizzard had anything on my development studio.Blizzard is the classic case of average quality,aged tech and no advancements or unique ideas of their own.Basically if you cannot surpass Blizzard's stagnant developement studio,you are in for a fall.You are correct in saying Blizzard got lucky ..VERY lucky.

Other than SOE,i would say EVERY studio is banking on luck,even my beloved FF series was near bankrupt if not for SOE and the Playstation saving it via FF7.This is why so many developers are looking for speed development,they figure it is such a pot luck gamble,they might as wel lget it out fast and hope for the best.

Square Enix is VERY confident in their ability,i was extemely surprised to hear they have been working on FFXIV for already 4-5 years.Add in the release date and you have a near 7 year production,no wonder Square is the innovator and others are copy cat developers.

Well I can see the game doing well and yes Blizzard has done a good job with WoW I have played wow for 3 years and it was a good game but now that after this last exspansion leaves me wanting something to step up and do a good job.

I for one will not play WoW anymore and there is a handful of titles I am looking forward to  SW:TOR being one of em. If this lets me down I hope DBO if it comes out in america will be good and my last hope witch has already failed me in the past is Star Trek....  Champions online looks fun but looks like it will be fun for 6 months tops like COH was...

And DC universe looks 2 years out dated the ghaphics look really choppy ...i know its not finished yet but the game looks bad to me.

It shouldn't even be a compition between these companys at all. 2 different game worlds 1 sci-fi the other fanatasy. If it becomes an issue of popularity and numbers and income, we can forget about ever getting great quality games ever again. it will all be about that success formula that makes a game a great seller.....IE World of Warcraft clones. everyone will be making the same game formula and no originality at all!

And to those people who keep correcting the spelling of Baulders Gate.

I cdnuolt blveiee that I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt.

Spelling is not important! You understood what I was saying so why waste your keyboard correcting what doenst matter?

Originally posted by Horkathane

I am rooting for Bioware, this is their time to shine! They have a perfect record of games and are a solid development team and will PWN Blizzard! Thats the deal, they are stepping up to the plate. Cmon lets look at the record

Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect and the King of all time RPG Baulders Gate Its over for Blizzard. Blizzard got lucky with Wow, it was their first rpg. Diablo was an Action rpg not the same. The Masters have come and its Bioware! Wow is going to get pummled!

Yes, Bioware will win the world champions title! You weird person, you!

Lionhead Studios are the best RPG creators.

The Fable franchise and the Black and White franchise.

All they need now is an MMO.

Originally posted by bossalinie

Comparing Bioware to Blizzard? Man, get out with that...Bioware needs to watch out for Bethsiba(sp) Ent. ever more and their talk about a Fallout MMO....

I don't think I would even count the Fallout MMO for Bethesda..  They supposedly contracted it to Masthead Studios.  So all of the Fallout MMOs success or failure will be on those crazy Bulgarians..

I have always like Bioware games more than Blizzard games.  So, in my book, Bioware has always beat the crap out of Blizzard.

 I dont know where you Bouldars Gate fans get your idealized vision of the game, but it was incredibly slow and the combat was horrible. No real strategy to it, just a <spacebar>, click each unit, issue command, <spacebar> watch them do it, <spacebar> etc, etc,

And the system where you had to rest to be able to cast the spell again? lame.

I'm looking forward to SWTOR, and know that it's combat system wont be like BG (thankfully), but I saw all these people commenting about BG's combat being great and had to say something.

And my major concern with SWTOR is that it will be so "class story based" that it turns into a single player game..Or a game where you can group only with your class and when you're on the same mission.

Bioware creates far more original stories, Blizzard is significantly ahead of the game in terms of gameplay.

Three major things to remember...

1) People want different things out of games, neither company will "win" and if Bioware can even get 1/4th of the subscriber base World of Warcraft has than their game is a resounding success the likes of which hasn't been seen since WoW's release. Their goal isn't to "beat" Blizzard, it's to come anywhere close to the success that Blizzard had with WoW.

2) Blizzard also has a pristine track record, both companies have been independently successful and existed alongside one another fine - this will not change.

3) Blizzard is working on an new MMORPG. Blizzard has a tremendous amount of funding available for the development of this new game, and unlike literally anyone else working on an MMORPG right now has the power, and funding to take as much time as they need to polish the ever-loving-shit out of it before it releases. They aren't retarded, they will not be releasing "WoW 2.0" - the new game will learn from this upcoming generation of releases (including TOR) and will refine/expand as needed.

Now, I don't want this to sound like I'm rooting for Blizzard to destroy Bioware - I'm rooting for neither. The MMORPG landscape doesn't need someone to "destroy" Blizzard, that isn't even a viable goal at the moment. The MMO scape just needs to see new, innovative titles being released as finished products and being independently successful. We've gone entirely too long with huge, expensive games being released and utterly failing. Too many people trying to release WoW 2.0... Bill Roper is right, Blizzard set out with WoW to make the best Everquest and they succeeded... there isn't room at the moment to make a better Everquest, but there is a tremendous amount of room to make a better MMORPG.

Originally posted by Minion552

1. Blizzard made big on wow cause it was tailored to the mass population. Blizzard them selves made a game based on lore that was put in place but was able to twist it to fit thier MMO.  Warcraft lore Vs Star Wars lore though is like compareing an apple to an orange

Warcraft is going to end with this Exp Blizzard has already started working on a New MMO that has not be announced yet but it has nothing to do with Warcraft/Starcraft or diablo.  So meaning that Warcraft is coming to its end after Arthas dies nothing more it was blizzards intent to make WoW and play it out they never thought it would have been as big as it was.

Blizzard as a company is great at marketing thier games and we seen over the years the funny wow commericals on TV the interent advertisments ect ect. But when it comes to stories and content in my opnion Blizzard lacks.. All thier stuff has been rinse wash and repeat and they them selves have not really done anything amazing since the last Exp BC.

People more or less play wow now cause there really is not much else to choose from out there that has as easy of a playing curve as wow does or the games them selves are really old and people do not want to go to a Vet community.  Lets be honest Raiding for one, how many of us out there like to raid with 24 other players that fall into one of these groups Kids/Married couples with limited play time/Teenagers who rather drink then raid anyways/Hardcore fanatics that scream in vent when you wipe on grobulas/Raid leaders who think thier way is the only way/ ect ect....   In my opnion wow is going to die yes it just is not going to happen as quick as everyone thinks. People said UO would die and hell they been around since 97 and still have an active community. 

2. Bioware has proven they can make a compeling story with some great added twists... They have made some very good RPG titles but they lack the experiance in the MMO world there will be alot of hit and miss with this game, I do think however they will be good enough to overcome some short comings.

Now do I think right out of the box SW:TOR is going to solve all my MMO woes...Doubtful I will say the first 3 months of a MMO will make or break it and I hope they know the constant nerfs that most MMO's do the first 3 months will kill the game like AoC/WAR/Darkfall ect ect...... They need to have a great beta test and a workable balance between jedi and the other classes if they can manage that I would hold on to my seats cause Tor will be amazing...

sorry to burst your self riteous bubble on this one, but blizzard reps themselves have stated that as long as people continue to play WoW they will continue to improve it and design content for the game, even with the development and eventual release of there new mmo...

Honestly, blizzard is too smart of a business to just die off, look at starcraft ghost, ended it before release because during testing and that it didnt do as well as they hoped, so instead of investing more money into something which probably wouldnt do well, they made a clean cut... Not to mention they are developing 2 very different themes. One is a Fantasy world (WoW) the other is a sci fi theme, so what makes anyone think they are going to steal a majority of WoW's player base. Has anyone actually stopped to think that maybe the people playing WoW like the "fantasy" theme over "sci fi" or they would be playing SWG, Eve Online... or any other sci fi themed space game that is currently on the market.

I dont get and i totally agree with why does one company, have to beat WoW, why is it EVERY single game that seems to be released it going to be a "WoW Killer" but none stack up and appeal to the WoW player base as much as the game itself does, it's funny, WoW might lose a few hundred thousand subs for a month while there players are trying the next big thing, but guess what more then 50% of the time those subscriptions are reactivated and those people are playing again, because unfortunatly for us the consumer... game companies are more interested in releasing a game 70% completely and really unpolished to start generating some revenue and end up releasing a game that doesnt deserve the server space it's using and it fails epically. Look at the WoW beta, that went on for months and although at release it might not have been perfect, it was better then alot of other games at release.... AoC, VG, LOTRO... to name a couple.

If companies didnt have to continually read and get hyped up by fanboys clamining there game is gonna be the next big thing and a WoW killer, maybe they'd be more incline to work a little harder and produce a better quality product to be in competition with WoW and not try to bring down the giant... because at the end of the day who loses out... US as the consumer, the game companies have already made there $50 you paid for the game and 1 or 2 months subscription you paid for, on there servers which are probably costing them a fraction of what they're charging you to play, so seriously cut the crap, stop worrying about games beating wow and start being more concearned about the crap there throwing at us, because we really are the only ones losing out...

on a side note, who knows... maybe WoW has decided to release it's own Sci Fi based MMO and thats what it's new IP is going to be, something new and innovative to compete with SW:TOR because lets face it, the power and backing that blizzard has it atstounding, they can dump ridiculous amounts of money into the game to make it work... guess we just have to wait and see

Originally posted by ronan32

bioware make better games than blizzard.

Bioware makes better RPGs, Blizzard makes better games.

doesnt metter...
i still believe in Turbine...

 Bioware makes games with stories that are nice for a single play-through but I haven't played a Bioware game since NWN1 that had any kind of replay value. Blizzard's games have amazing replay value - I'm still playing Starcraft now & then after 11 years.

I'm worried if Bioware will really be able to create a lot of replay-value in SWTOR. Successful MMOs need players that continue to subscribe for years and they'll burn through content/story much faster than Bioware can create it.