Originally posted by mklinic

 

Sounds interesting enough. I like the idea of item decay and think it was a bad choice to remove it from SWG. But I would have to disagree about SWG crafting being all solo. I mean, as a Master Architect I crafted building/furniture for our player city. Given the skill system in SWG, I could not craft everything at any given time. I would need to 'unlearn' something in order to learn to do something new. So, there was an interdependance with other players. From what I have been able to discern about DF, I could eventually learn to craft everything at any given time assuming I learned the skills. This sounds more solo oriented then SWG was. Furthermore, I would supply my goods to merchants who paid taxes in the player city which, in turn, went toward maintaining the player city among other things. I would say crafting and economics were very clan/PA oriented in SWG. That said, any game is what you make of it. If you choose to be solo, then some games might make that choice a bit more viable, but that doesn't make the whole game focued on solo play. That makes your choice focused on solo play.

I think a context he might use for his example would be boats. Nobody in DF is going to craft their own personal boat (rafts yes, boats not). Boats are far to expensive to make and to hard to protect as a solo. I dont know the specifics of SWG but my guess is that furniture is both a solo possible as well as a clan possible.

Boats are not realistically possible as a solo in DF

Another thing I like about DF crafting compared to EQ2 (sorry its the only thing I can speak to directly) is that some items you gather while fighting mobs can be used in crafting.

I have always felt that it makes sense to have a major raid into an area with a group in hopes of killing some major mob so that you can get X for crafting. In DF cases that does exist for boats and warhulks.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

I think a context he might use for his example would be boats. Nobody in DF is going to craft their own personal boat (rafts yes, boats not). Boats are far to expensive to make and to hard to protect as a solo. I dont know the specifics of SWG but my guess is that furniture is both a solo possible as well as a clan possible.

Boats are not realistically possible as a solo in DF

Another thing I like about DF crafting compared to EQ2 (sorry its the only thing I can speak to directly) is that some items you gather while fighting mobs can be used in crafting.

I have always felt that it makes sense to have a major raid into an area with a group in hopes of killing some major mob so that you can get X for crafting. In DF cases that does exist for boats and warhulks.

The team effort in SWG comes in the components used to craft something. Lets take a Player Association Hall (guild hall) for example. I might need items crafted by a Driod Engineer in order to create the deed for the building. So, at a bare minimum, I would need a couple people to make this item. Sure, I could make the subcomponents and then switch skills and therefore, eventually pull it off solo, but that would be a fairly inefficient way to go about it. I don't recall all the interpendancies, and this example may not be the most accurate as it has been far too long since i played, but you get the general idea with a very simple example. I think, as far as materials from creatures and such, the few (at the time) Jedi might have had more to do with that when it game to light sabers and such. I never unlocked Jedi and never explored that part of the game so can't reall say for certain.

So, again, I firmly believe SWG was Player Association oriented and I also believe someone could manage to live and possibly thrive solo. It was a sandbox after all ;). Just as you compare crafting to EQ2, I compare to SWG as I haven't found too many games that come close to the Pre-CU implementation. Both SOE games..what are the chances....The next closest I have found, and not for it's similarities, is Eve which has a very interesting crafting system. That said, I think comparing crafting in Eve to Darkfall may be apples and oranges just with how different the approaches seem to be.

Originally posted by mklinic

 

The team effort in SWG comes in the components used to craft something. Lets take a Player Association Hall (guild hall) for example. I might need items crafted by a Driod Engineer in order to create the deed for the building. So, at a bare minimum, I would need a couple people to make this item. Sure, I could make the subcomponents and then switch skills and therefore, eventually pull it off solo, but that would be a fairly inefficient way to go about it. I don't recall all the interpendancies, and this example may not be the most accurate as it has been far too long since i played, but you get the general idea with a very simple example. I think, as far as materials from creatures and such, the few (at the time) Jedi might have had more to do with that when it game to light sabers and such. I never unlocked Jedi and never explored that part of the game so can't reall say for certain.

So, again, I firmly believe SWG was Player Association oriented and I also believe someone could manage to live and possibly thrive solo. It was a sandbox after all ;). Just as you compare crafting to EQ2, I compare to SWG as I haven't found too many games that come close to the Pre-CU implementation. Both SOE games..what are the chances....The next closest I have found, and not for it's similarities, is Eve which has a very interesting crafting system. That said, I think comparing crafting in Eve to Darkfall may be apples and oranges just with how different the approaches seem to be.

yeah I have heard a lot of good things about SWG crafting and I regret not getting into that game when it came out to be honest. I am just a graphics junkie that I just cant bring myself to try it out. But yeah, SWG has always sounds like an engine I could get into

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Demonized

Played EQ2 for 4 years, quit a while back. Tried WAR but had routing problems so i quit. Playing online poker until something decent comes up.

Oh, and EQ2s crafting is light years ahead of DF. Basically, DF is a pile of decadent dung that should have been impaled in the wastelands as soon as it was "released".

 

In EQ2 here are the things you can NOT do that you CAN do in DF

1. have more than one crafting skill
You yourself said that you were a tailor and transmuter.  Although, you did say in one thread you were level 51 tailor and transmuter and then in another thread a 61.

Transmuting and tinkering are both crafting skills, and you can have either of them along with the primary ones.  So that's two crafting skills you can have in EQ2; not just one.

2. build ship, cannons and warhulks
Cause those are all over the place.

3. have different stat outcomes for the same equiptment based on your skill level
That's completely random as apposed to actual player skill.  Contrary to the way you try to describe it, simply hitting 1, 5, 6 doesn't automatically give you a pristine Item.  each of the skills you would use have dif. effects, and if used correctly give you a pristine item, if just spammed will cause the item to decay as you craft and cause it to be of a lower quality.  Then you have to counter negetive effects with the proper skill; so if you're just clicking your skills repeatedly the needed skill may be on cooldown and then your item won't come out correctly. 

4. buy additional skills specific to one crafting area.
And what kind of skills would those be?  Masteries?
As apposed to getting recipe books that allow you to craft more, and better items.   In EQ2 for each tier you can have over 20 books to find that will allow you to craft basic items as well as advanced books that allow you to craft advanced items within those tiers.

5. have reciepes that are actually very different per tier and involve multiple componets that do not all come from a few source.
Like a higher level sword that has slighly better stats then the lower one and costs x amount more of iron ingots, leather, and timber?  The items within a single crafting proffesion only require you to have MORE of the same crap the lower items took, or add a new ingredient. 

Not to mention the same bush in DFO that gives you strawberries also gives you blueberries, mandrake, snakeweek, steedgrass, etc. etc.  Just like in EQ2 two.

As a weapon smith I start crafting weapons out of copper, as I move up in tears the main component changes.  I don't craft t4 weaons using t2 compenents, and t3 harvest nodes don't give me t5 resources. 

Basically what you wrote here is completely wrong.  DFO has very little variety from one item to the next and the resources never changed.  You craft a rank 30 weapon using the same iron ingots you crafted a rank 0 weapon with, you just use more of them.

6. have crafting requirements based on player stats which can improve from doing harvesting.
The only stat requriment is the crafting level and that doesn't go up unless you craft.  Like building a raft requires lvl 75 wood working.  To get there you need to convert several thousand wood into several thousand timber.

 

oh and food is actually useful where in EQ2 its not.

More BS.  Food in DFO regens health, Stamina, and Mana while you're not sitting.  People kept telling me that it helps while crafting; so I tried it.  I ate some food and started harvesting,  The second I started the regen from the food stopped ticking.  It was wasted.  It's more benefitial to use while sitting or fighting.

Food in EQ2 regens health and mana.  Depending how good the crafter was and how good the food is you may have food and drink that lasts for 20 minutes or you may have food that last for an hour.  On top of the length of time the effects of food last it may also come with a buff.

Food in EQ2 is NECESSARY.  You can't get by without it.  When you run out of food you regen health and stamina at a insanely slow rate.  Provisioners are probably the most important proffesion in the game.
 

I myself said that I played EQ2 for 2 years. 
Someone else in this thread pointed out that they played for 4 years.
 

Now, knowing that others in this thread have actually played the game for a considerable length of time would you still write a bunch of stuff that is complete BS.

Did I mention that I've put almost 3 months in to DFO as well.
I did do a fair amount of crafting as well.

Either you didn't do much crafting in EQ2, or you're blatantly lying about it.
Considering your statement about food in EQ2 not being usefull, I'm going with blatantly lying about both.

Originally posted by Fariic

 

I myself said that I played EQ2 for 2 years. 
Someone else in this thread pointed out that they played for 4 years.
 

Now, knowing that others in this thread have actually played the game for a considerable length of time would you still write a bunch of stuff that is complete BS.

Did I mention that I've put almost 3 months in to DFO as well.
I did do a fair amount of crafting as well.

Either you didn't do much crafting in EQ2, or you're blatantly lying about it.
Considering your statement about food in EQ2 not being usefull, I'm going with blatantly lying about both.

 

posters who suggest that SWG crafting is more in depth that DF might have a point

posters who suggest that UO crafting is more in depth that DF might have a point

posters that suggest EQ2 crafting is more in depth than DF are on crack. Not talking about that stupid comparision anymore

I got bored playing FFXi too much,so i have been playing very little,mostly some old UT99.That is the way PVP should be done,nothing on the market comes close,so i would never consider PVP in an MMO,mainly because it cannot be done properly.

BTW i am not a Df hater,i just have no use for the game.

Went back to EQ1, Going to relive the good ol days in Black Burrow.

Sure isn't Darkfall....... I decided to leave the MMOs alone till something good comes out so at the moment it is Mount & Blade,Fallout 3 and Elder Scrolls. I would go back to the crap UO has turned out to be now than Darkfall.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Fariic

 

I myself said that I played EQ2 for 2 years. 
Someone else in this thread pointed out that they played for 4 years.
 

Now, knowing that others in this thread have actually played the game for a considerable length of time would you still write a bunch of stuff that is complete BS.

Did I mention that I've put almost 3 months in to DFO as well.
I did do a fair amount of crafting as well.

Either you didn't do much crafting in EQ2, or you're blatantly lying about it.
Considering your statement about food in EQ2 not being usefull, I'm going with blatantly lying about both.

 

 

posters who suggest that SWG crafting is more in depth that DF might have a point

posters who suggest that UO crafting is more in depth that DF might have a point

posters that suggest EQ2 crafting is more in depth than DF are on crack. Not talking about that stupid comparision anymore

So what's the deal with the poster that blatantly lies?

Originally posted by Fariic

 

So what's the deal with the poster that blatantly lies?

Oh sorry yeah i didnt read the part about you calling me a liar.

well I dont know what to tell you. I was a level 61 tailor/ 61 wizard on the Nekolist (spelling) server and food was something that ONLY increased your regen while NOT in combat which in my view is useless.

 but if you want to keep calling me a liar and trying to suggest that EQ2 crafting is deeper than DF have fun I invite you do make an fool of yourself

Sean,
Didn't you post on the official DFO forums that you weren't sure you could continue to play the game because its effecting you pshycologically?

You made statements in regards to the how EQ2 crafting works.  Everyone one of the points you made is wrong.
If you leveled two crafting skills to 51 or 61 you would know exactly how they work.
If what you wrote wasn't true, and you did indeed level a crafter, then the only conclusion I can possibly make is that you intentially wrote things that were untrue.

That's called lying.

I'm cool with being labelled a hater of DFO.  Fine by me.
But,
If I see someone write something untrue about a mechanic in DFO I'll be just as quick to point it out.  Good or bad.
I may be a hater, but I'll at least do my best to be an INFORMED hater.

Being a fanatic is fine as well, but at least try and be an informed one.

Originally posted by alderdale

What game are you currently playing?  Come on dont be shy and stay on topic please.

WAR!

It is themepark, it is casual but it is fun. Darkfall is anything but and Mortal Online will finish it.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Oh sorry yeah i didnt read the part about you calling me a liar.

well I dont know what to tell you. I was a level 61 tailor/ 61 wizard on the Nekolist (spelling) server and food was something that ONLY increased your regen while NOT in combat which in my view is useless.

 but if you want to keep calling me a liar and trying to suggest that EQ2 crafting is deeper than DF have fun I invite you do make an fool of yourself

 

Uhm, I only played EQ 2 for a month or so but during that month I found it to be quite useful to regen inbetween combats. So, how do you regen inbetween combat if you don't use food?

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Frostbite05

darkfall isn't that great of a game thats a fact. people hate on adventurine not darkfall. all the hate towards the company is mostly warranted. get over it

 

repeat that?

darkfall isnt that great of a game. People hate AV not darkfall? I am not following that could you clean that up a bit?

I see what you're attempting to do there, but it won't fly... and it's a pretty weak attempt, to be honest.

Saying Darkfall isn't that great of a game is stating an opinion. It's not "hating on it". I know the fans around here don't see it that way, considering anything negative said about the game, AV or Tasos to be "trolling" and "hating". Unfortunately for you, it's not the case.

Also, what Frostbite says is true... Not all, but several of the people here target AV and especially Tasos... Going into broken record mode again here, but several of us have said - for months now - that we find the concept of Darkfall to be quite interesting, but flawed in execution as has been pointed out by people who are playing it. What we don't like are the people behind it, how it's been mishandled, the hype, the spin and the lies - especially from Tasos.

What I'm wondering if or when the fans are going to stop pretending to not know the difference, and will stop labeling any criticism as "hating on Darkfall".

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 

repeat that?

darkfall isnt that great of a game. People hate AV not darkfall? I am not following that could you clean that up a bit?

I see what you're attempting to do there, but it won't fly... and it's a pretty weak attempt, to be honest.

Saying Darkfall isn't that great of a game is stating an opinion. It's not "hating on it". I know the fans around here don't see it that way, considering anything negative said about the game, AV or Tasos to be "trolling" and "hating". Unfortunately for you, it's not the case.

Also, what Frostbite says is true... Not all, but several of the people here target AV and especially Tasos... Going into broken record mode again here, but several of us have said - for months now - that we find the concept of Darkfall to be quite interesting, but flawed in execution as has been pointed out by people who are playing it. What we don't like are the people behind it, how it's been mishandled, the hype, the spin and the lies - especially from Tasos.

What I'm wondering if or when the fans are going to stop pretending to not know the difference, and will stop labeling any criticism as "hating on Darkfall".

 

there is an unusally high amount of untrusting posters on this board.

no, I was very seriously confused about the two words that seem to contradict themselves is all. No hidden agenda or trap.

given the type of gamer I am its often very hard for me to fully understand where people are coming from on the points regarding the company that created the game becuase in ALL cases for almost 30 years of gaming the company that made the game is something I have never cared one cent about.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Frostbite05

darkfall isn't that great of a game thats a fact. people hate on adventurine not darkfall. all the hate towards the company is mostly warranted. get over it

 

repeat that?

darkfall isnt that great of a game. People hate AV not darkfall? I am not following that could you clean that up a bit?

I see what you're attempting to do there, but it won't fly... and it's a pretty weak attempt, to be honest.

Saying Darkfall isn't that great of a game is stating an opinion. It's not "hating on it". I know the fans around here don't see it that way, considering anything negative said about the game, AV or Tasos to be "trolling" and "hating". Unfortunately for you, it's not the case.

Also, what Frostbite says is true... Not all, but several of the people here target AV and especially Tasos... Going into broken record mode again here, but several of us have said - for months now - that we find the concept of Darkfall to be quite interesting, but flawed in execution as has been pointed out by people who are playing it. What we don't like are the people behind it, how it's been mishandled, the hype, the spin and the lies - especially from Tasos.

What I'm wondering if or when the fans are going to stop pretending to not know the difference, and will stop labeling any criticism as "hating on Darkfall".

 

welp, it's not so much the fans, as it is the fanbois.  fanboi mentality is a cult.   takes a lot to change cultists' minds.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Frostbite05

darkfall isn't that great of a game thats a fact. people hate on adventurine not darkfall. all the hate towards the company is mostly warranted. get over it

 

repeat that?

darkfall isnt that great of a game. People hate AV not darkfall? I am not following that could you clean that up a bit?

I see what you're attempting to do there, but it won't fly... and it's a pretty weak attempt, to be honest.

Saying Darkfall isn't that great of a game is stating an opinion. It's not "hating on it". I know the fans around here don't see it that way, considering anything negative said about the game, AV or Tasos to be "trolling" and "hating". Unfortunately for you, it's not the case.

Also, what Frostbite says is true... Not all, but several of the people here target AV and especially Tasos... Going into broken record mode again here, but several of us have said - for months now - that we find the concept of Darkfall to be quite interesting, but flawed in execution as has been pointed out by people who are playing it. What we don't like are the people behind it, how it's been mishandled, the hype, the spin and the lies - especially from Tasos.

What I'm wondering if or when the fans are going to stop pretending to not know the difference, and will stop labeling any criticism as "hating on Darkfall".

 

welp, it's not so much the fans, as it is the fanbois.  fanboi mentality is a cult.   takes a lot to change cultists' minds.

Yeah.. my bad. I usually make sure to put a qualifier in there to separate the rabid fans from the normal ones, since I know not all are like that. My mistake :-p

Thread header to me = mimimimimimimimi

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 

repeat that?

darkfall isnt that great of a game. People hate AV not darkfall? I am not following that could you clean that up a bit?

I see what you're attempting to do there, but it won't fly... and it's a pretty weak attempt, to be honest.

Saying Darkfall isn't that great of a game is stating an opinion. It's not "hating on it". I know the fans around here don't see it that way, considering anything negative said about the game, AV or Tasos to be "trolling" and "hating". Unfortunately for you, it's not the case.

Also, what Frostbite says is true... Not all, but several of the people here target AV and especially Tasos... Going into broken record mode again here, but several of us have said - for months now - that we find the concept of Darkfall to be quite interesting, but flawed in execution as has been pointed out by people who are playing it. What we don't like are the people behind it, how it's been mishandled, the hype, the spin and the lies - especially from Tasos.

What I'm wondering if or when the fans are going to stop pretending to not know the difference, and will stop labeling any criticism as "hating on Darkfall".

 

 

there is an unusally high amount of untrusting posters on this board.

no, I was very seriously confused about the two words that seem to contradict themselves is all. No hidden agenda or trap.

given the type of gamer I am its often very hard for me to fully understand where people are coming from on the points regarding the company that created the game becuase in ALL cases for almost 30 years of gaming the company that made the game is something I have never cared one cent about.

Ahh, well if you weren't trying to pull a fast-one here a la "certain other posters", and were genuinely looking for clarification, then I take it back.

Basically, I believe (and I know it's true for me), that the reason people care about the people behind it is because when you decide to invest time/money into something, you want to know that what you're getting is what's advertised. When the people doing the advertising fail to deliver on everything they've promised it makes you second guess that company and whether or not it's wise to continue supporting them via their product.

Several people here alone, myself included, are interested in DF and have been following it with some interest because - at least speaking for myself - I do like open PvP MMOs and was intrigued by much of what I read. Unfortunately much of what I read about, on the site, in interviews with Tasos, etc... does not represent what's in the game they've provided. They've carried on with very shady tactics since it "launched", they still haven't gotten their billing system sorted out apparently, Tasos carries on like a whiney brat when someone says anything negative about his game... It's just a bad scene over there.

If DF were in better hands and being managed by people with more experience, and a PR person who knew when it was best to keep their mouth shut (which in Tasos case, would be almost all the time), what to say and what not to, and who was capable of speaking more than 5 sentences without lying or grossly spinning the obvious reality of things... I think there'd be a much different overall "tone" around here.

 

Originally posted by WSIMike

Ahh, well if you weren't trying to pull a fast-one here a la "certain other posters", and were genuinely looking for clarification, then I take it back.

Basically, I believe (and I know it's true for me), that the reason people care about the people behind it is because when you decide to invest time/money into something, you want to know that what you're getting is what's advertised. When the people doing the advertising fail to deliver on everything they've promised it makes you second guess that company and whether or not it's wise to continue supporting them via their product.

Several people here alone, myself included, are interested in DF and have been following it with some interest because - at least speaking for myself - I do like open PvP MMOs and was intrigued by much of what I read. Unfortunately much of what I read about, on the site, in interviews with Tasos, etc... does not represent what's in the game they've provided. They've carried on with very shady tactics since it "launched", they still haven't gotten their billing system sorted out apparently, Tasos carries on like a whiney brat when someone says anything negative about his game... It's just a bad scene over there.

If DF were in better hands and being managed by people with more experience, and a PR person who knew when it was best to keep their mouth shut (which in Tasos case, would be almost all the time), what to say and what not to, and who was capable of speaking more than 5 sentences without lying or grossly spinning the obvious reality of things... I think there'd be a much different overall "tone" around here.

 

I can understand that to a point.

However here is how I differ. I had a long conversation with someone last night who said that they would in fact quit a game that they enjoy playing if some feature that was advertised (even during pre-release) was not in the game.

This is one area I differ in. I am not going to stop having sex becuase the girl promised me just a kiss. If I am having fun I keep on going.

Now, second to that. The total tonage of BS that comes from game developers pre-game launch is massive and mega crazy huge. If I gamed out of prinicple I would never game much at all outside of maybe Diner Dash.

When I leave home from work each day I consider myself lucky if I can find something to do that is fun. I am not going to remove that fun factor time because some game company promised something different.

Now as I have stated here many times before I very crystal clearlly and exactly understand the points everyone has been making to me without any deviation or misunderstanding whatsoever.

The question at this is however, does anyone understand my point? regardless of if they agree with it.