Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by toddze

We have very similar gaming styles WSIMike, I agree with every post you make.

I dislike the solo mentality in MMO's it makes no sense. If I wanted to play solo I will play a console game. Or a single player PC game. I just cant figure out why so many love the solo idea. MMO's are just a single player game with a chat box now. We will have to see but if FFXIV caters to this it will most likely be my last MMO. This was my last hope for an MMO to provide me with a new challenge. Not all hope is lost solo play can envolve alot of things and the main game can still be group oriented. 

 

You really don't understand it?  It typically boils down to a time commitment.  A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc.  When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time.  Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content.  It seems pretty simple to me.

The key for developers is finding the right balance.  Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like  you are playing with NPC's most of the time. 

A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.

On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.

He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.

He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.

He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.

It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by Cynthe

 

 I'm not asking for a simple easy peasy game either, make the difference, I enjoy challenge but it better be worth my time. There's plenty of instances in the old game where it just wasn't worth it and reached a point where it sucked all the fun out of the game.

since you refuse to see anything besides your narrow view.

 

Oh I see the the other side of the spectrum. Where I get  lost is that every single new MMO game that gets announced all the boards are all identical (that is if its a PvE game). They all  want the same exact thing time in and time out. They want a challenge but they want it casual friendly, they want the best of both worlds and that is un-reasonable and un-realist. The fact is challenges take effort and time, if it didnt it wouldnt be a challenege.  The cold truth is that one guy hit the nail on the head when he said people dont know what they want in an MMO. They want things that contradict each other, that just proves his point. 

Yeah, I notice that contradiction a lot, too, and agree that that's a core problem with many people... They want something that isn't feasible.

They want challenging gameplay... that's soloable.
They want epic, raid-level boss battles... that are soloable (I've seen more and more demands for this)
They want a MMO with a huge population... that they can solo exclusively in.
They want challenging quests beyond just "kill x of y"... that can be solo'd.

Basically.. they want a single player game with other people around. It might sound like an over-simplification, but when you read the desires and demands of many people across various different forums for different games.. that's kinda what it sounds like. The concept of an epic raid battle being soloable itself is just ridiculous. It's not a "raid" if it's a solo fight. It then simply becomes a really difficult but soloable boss encounter.

This doesn't apply to those who like grouping but also like to solo at times (even I fit that category). This pertains to those who regard the very idea of grouping, at all, ever, for any reason, under any conditions, like kryptonite to Superman.

 

And thats exactly what i'm saying. I'm not against a game that you can hope on to for 40 minutes and solo some mobs for XP. But what I don't like are games that are just to easy, example: WOW you can serously solo level from 1-70 in a matter of a month with only playing 4 days a week for  4 hours a day ( I know because I did it). That to me is a "solo" game. A groupe game with the option to solo would be FFXI. (Call me crazy) But there where many a time when I couldn't get a group in the dunes, or I was waiting for a groupe so i'd go solo. And most of the time if I worked hard I could level in about 1.5 hours. (granted this was before level 20...)

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by WSIMike

Basically.. they want a single player game with other people around. It might sound like an over-simplification, but when you read the desires and demands of many people across various different forums for different games.. that's kinda what it sounds like. The concept of an epic raid battle being soloable itself is just ridiculous. It's not a "raid" if it's a solo fight. It then simply becomes a really difficult but soloable boss encounter.

 

 

Who are those people? I don't think I've met them yet.

I'm starting to think that whenever someone says, can it be possible to solo (via one certain class or something similar) people equate that with please give me everything on a silver plater so I don't have too much effort for the rewards. That's not it.

Maybe you guys are talking about how Blizzard keeps making things ever easier in their game, which in a lot of cases is a real shame like the last dungeon patch can't remember which raid it was but it was made a lot easier.... I don't agree with that, adding smaller group raids sure, but don't change what's already there into easy mode that cheats your new players of the experience imo anyway.

But mostly people who do things slower and/or chooses to solo already know it will take them longer to reach their goals and that's something we're ok with. Maybe it's the devs that misinterpret what players want and piss everyone off. :D

Also denying a different way (but no less challenging) to get a certain reward for people who play differently is just plain selfish in my view also. But I don't fear on that end because FFXI already has that in place, where it's possible to get your J boots in different ways. (It's j boots right?)

 

 

I've met plenty.

I'm fine with the idea of having some soloable content in a MMO. Like I said, I fit that category as well.

However, there's a group (and it's not a majority, luckily.. but growing), that want the entire game to be soloable and find grouping for any reason to be the worst thing they can imagine.
 

The problem is your logic.  In none of these games are you forced to solo.  You can team up for anyting, but the same cannot be said for soloers who are locked out from a lot of content that is group only.  Groupers are never denied any content, ever, 100% of any game can be played in groups.  Soloers may have content, usually below 50%,  but most of it sucks and most of it is unrewarding, making it content not worth doing in the first place.  Whatever though, this argument doesn't apply to this game, there will NEVER be an Asian based game that is solo friendly for even 25% of the content, let alone 100%.

Won't keep me from voicing my opinion till some company decides to seriously cater to it.

Originally posted by Vrazule

The problem is your logic.  In none of these games are you forced to solo.  You can team up for anyting, but the same cannot be said for soloers who are locked out from a lot of content that is group only.  Groupers are never denied any content, ever, 100% of any game can be played in groups.  Soloers may have content, usually below 50%,  but most of it sucks and most of it is unrewarding, making it content not worth doing in the first place.  Whatever though, this argument doesn't apply to this game, there will NEVER be an Asian based game that is solo friendly for even 25% of the content, let alone 100%.

Won't keep me from voicing my opinion till some company decides to seriously cater to it.

In some ways I sympathize with the solo mindset because frankly some games have a community where the people are most definantly not worth playing with.  And you are right about most games being party orientated.  Chances are there will never be a true Solo game, more or less because they are generally on consoles without online content and are called just rpg's.  Not trying to attack you, just pointing out that the MMO does stand for M-Multiplayer-O.  It kind of goes with that mindset that parties would have a role in it.

Though with changing trends you can never tell if a true Solo game might come out, though I tend to think it will be ultimately more PvP rather than PvE.

People playing online games so they can spend time in-game with other players makes sense to me.

People playing online games so they can be alone and go through solo content makes no sense to me.

However, I think having the option to do either (so people can do some stuff on their own after playing or competing with others) is very important. This way, raid members can occasionally catch some breath, and soloers can still show other players their awesome (solo) achievements once in a while.

WoW allows people to hit max level playing by themselves, and allows players to finish instances together. These things are not mutually exclusive, and FFXI had some problems with the first part. Fixing those problems does not mean FFXIV will not be a good game for alliance-lovers.

Originally posted by Vrazule

The problem is your logic.  In none of these games are you forced to solo.  You can team up for anyting, but the same cannot be said for soloers who are locked out from a lot of content that is group only.

Ahh but see your looking at it from a solo'ers stand point. You can team up if you can find people that want to team up. The problem is they only want team up if the need to run a dungon for loot or if there is something they need. Its next to impossible to make a group to level in solo based game. In a quest driven MMO grouping is actually harder because your constantly having to make sure everyones on same quest and blah blah blah. If you can overcome that and decide to just go mob grind then your missing all your quest rewards making it harder. thus people just solo grind quests, because its the least path of resistance. Gamers in general will always take the easies path. Ill be honest I am not going to make things harder on myself, I will do my best to just grind my way by it fast as possible.

 Any of you guys that have short time spans to play in (I am in this boat a lot too these days) try Warhammer's Public Quest system? I have been able to jump in the game for about an hour and get a little boss killed in Public Quest really easy. I think the key to this success of finding groups is because they did something similar to Everquest (Maybe not intentionally, or maybe they did). In EQ there wasn't really quest you did for xp so everyone was free to do what they wanted and that means it was easy to group up at certain spots of your level because people wasn't constantly on different quest. 

In Warhammer these Public Quest feel like that where you just walk into the area and you are in a Public Quest. People do them because they have nice rewards and it is repeatable. It rarely takes me over five minutes to find which Public Quest people are doing of my level in Warhammer and I am joined in the fun. 

I also think developers such as WoW have seen that some people do not have as much time to devote to a game play session and have went to great lengths to shorten instance raids and instance group dungeons into a very reasonable play session time. Most dungeons/raids can be completed in a little over an hour. If you have less time you still can do that. Pick up groups are very commonly doing these instances in WoW now and it takes very little time to get in one. WoW and other games have went to great lengths to get their dungeon content accessible for quicker gameplay sessions but that can only be taken so far. I still suppose they could add a few onyxia single bosses for groups .. or raids to do in aproximately 30 min time frame. That would be a quick game play session if you really do not have very much time to game at all. At that point your life is so busy are you really getting your money's worth playing an online game? 

If you playstyle is less than 30 minutes a day I have to ask are you really playing in the correct genre? Not to be mean, but these games you most likely will at least an hour to do something fun. When I am pushed for time and maybe only can game for 20 -30min I usually play some games designed for short game play. Games are very accessible now even for folks with short game play session time constraints. Like I said though if you life is so busy that you can't play about 20min - 30mins a day or even less, MMORPGs would be hard to justify playing. It would be a waste of money. First person shooters are nice if you only have a quick 30mins though. That is a away to get some online fun if you are really pressed for time.

/sigh >.>

Solo players don't play alone...... For example in EQ2 I spent a lot of time on my own, but there's a lot you can do to contribute to the health of your guild like grinding points, or making crafts for yourself and people who need something. Being in a guild means you can chat with the people you choose to spend time with while doing whatever, it means you can schedule events, raids, dungeons and attend those. Someone needs a hand with something maybe you'll be glad to tag along.

Choosing to level solo does not automatically mean we refuse to socialize or group up with a random pug to kill the same mobs instead of competing with each other, or answer someone shouting for assistance.

Watching these threads it's like watching 2 people scream at each other while having their fingers stuck in their ears.

Originally posted by Cynthe

/sigh >.>

Solo players don't play alone...... For example in EQ2 I spent a lot of time on my own, but there's a lot you can do to contribute to the health of your guild like grinding points, or making crafts for yourself and people who need something. Being in a guild means you can chat with the people you choose to spend time with while doing whatever, it means you can schedule events, raids, dungeons and attend those. Someone needs a hand with something maybe you'll be glad to tag along.

Choosing to level solo does not automatically mean we refuse to socialize or group up with a random pug to kill the same mobs instead of competing with each other, or answer someone shouting for assistance.

Watching these threads it's like watching 2 people scream at each other while having their fingers stuck in their ears.

 

<giggles>  Well I usually just put in my earplugs because I don't like getting my fingers waxy. ^^

I'd just like to say, when I played FFXI (I played awhile ago before these new patches...level sync, etc. which by the way sound like good ideas) I never had much gripe about the grouping situation. You put your flag up and go do something productive like mine, or craft or hunt NMs. If you don't get an invite in a reasonable amount of time form your own group, it was as easy as that.

As far as raiding content...I never got that far and I loved the game regardless! It was fun for me partying and leveling up and doing all the quests and such. I don't understand why it has to be about getting the best gear and all that stuff. If you don't have time to devote to getting all the best gear just enjoy the game for what it is...enjoy the journey, take your time!

That being said, ideally in an MMO I would give more xp/rewards for grouping (leveling wise) and make soloing possible, with a decent xp rate if you can't find a group or don't have time to group (these seem to be the primary complaints about not wanting to group). But honestly, these games are MMORPGs. Grouping, logically, would be the primary tool for progression in such a game according to the acronym. Don't get me wrong, there should be some solo content, but it shouldn't be created as an alternate playing style IMO,  it should be just something to do when you don't want to group or don't have time to do group content.

Originally posted by Aganazer

Voodoo Extreme just called it an "action-based massively multiplayer role-playing". That doesn't sound very old-school to me. I wouldn't call FFXI "action-based" so that means its something different.

The Excitement of going to Quifm, watching your fuzzy little taru buddy getting agro, Fast paced Skillchain action, getting a double attack with my Gax right b4 a skillchain then another double attack says differently. I had much more fun grouping in FFXI than I ever did in any other MMO. Playing your character correctly and to the best of it's ability was far more important than in casual mmo's. and it added a lot of excitement because of it. You couldn't just auto attack with random abilities and expect anything good from FFXI. you NEED to actively play and participate in the party dynamic/Skillchains/Manabursts/Agro control

I don't know what you think "Action Based" means but combat in FFXI isn't just auto attack.

When you get agro in FFXI it's a very bad thing, THAT is what makes it more exciting.

Originally posted by grndzro

Originally posted by Aganazer

Voodoo Extreme just called it an "action-based massively multiplayer role-playing". That doesn't sound very old-school to me. I wouldn't call FFXI "action-based" so that means its something different.

The Excitement of going to Quifm, watching your fuzzy little taru buddy getting agro, Fast paced Skillchain action, getting a double attack with my Gax right b4 a skillchain then another double attack says differently. I had much more fun grouping in FFXI than I ever did in any other MMO. Playing your character correctly and to the best of it's ability was far more important than in casual mmo's. and it added a lot of excitement because of it. You couldn't just auto attack with random abilities and expect anything good from FFXI. you NEED to actively play and participate in the party dynamic/Skillchains/Manabursts/Agro control

I don't know what you think "Action Based" means but combat in FFXI isn't just auto attack.

When you get agro in FFXI it's a very bad thing, THAT is what makes it more exciting.

I agree FFXI had my favorite combat system there was always something going on in a battle.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by toddze

We have very similar gaming styles WSIMike, I agree with every post you make.

I dislike the solo mentality in MMO's it makes no sense. If I wanted to play solo I will play a console game. Or a single player PC game. I just cant figure out why so many love the solo idea. MMO's are just a single player game with a chat box now. We will have to see but if FFXIV caters to this it will most likely be my last MMO. This was my last hope for an MMO to provide me with a new challenge. Not all hope is lost solo play can envolve alot of things and the main game can still be group oriented. 

 

You really don't understand it?  It typically boils down to a time commitment.  A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc.  When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time.  Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content.  It seems pretty simple to me.

The key for developers is finding the right balance.  Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like  you are playing with NPC's most of the time. 

A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.

On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.

He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.

He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.

He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.

It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.

 

You have a good point there Mike, also if you don't have that much time to play you can always make time...... I don't ever watch TV so that frees up time.  OR if your married get your wife or husband to play too you can still spend time with them and even RP in the game. Ive known a few couples that played FFXI.

IM single so the only other things that get in the way for my video game time is work and guitar. Which ive been doing both more of because I haven't found a good game to play....... I've been thinking of starting FFXI back up again, I just wish some real life friends woud start to play again.  

When I first started I knew at least 10 people in RL that played it now nobody I know plays it . They all quit to play WoW and other games.

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by toddze

We have very similar gaming styles WSIMike, I agree with every post you make.

I dislike the solo mentality in MMO's it makes no sense. If I wanted to play solo I will play a console game. Or a single player PC game. I just cant figure out why so many love the solo idea. MMO's are just a single player game with a chat box now. We will have to see but if FFXIV caters to this it will most likely be my last MMO. This was my last hope for an MMO to provide me with a new challenge. Not all hope is lost solo play can envolve alot of things and the main game can still be group oriented. 

 

You really don't understand it?  It typically boils down to a time commitment.  A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc.  When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time.  Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content.  It seems pretty simple to me.

The key for developers is finding the right balance.  Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like  you are playing with NPC's most of the time. 

A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.

On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.

He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.

He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.

He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.

It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.

 

You have a good point there Mike, also if you don't have that much time to play you can always make time...... I don't ever watch TV so that frees up time.  OR if your married get your wife or husband to play too you can still spend time with them and even RP in the game. Ive known a few couples that played FFXI.

 

IM single so the only other things that get in the way for my video game time is work and guitar. Which ive been doing both more of because I haven't found a good game to play....... I've been thinking of starting FFXI back up again, I just wish some real life friends woud start to play again.  

When I first started I knew at least 10 people in RL that played it now nobody I know plays it . They all quit to play WoW and other games.

Your last sentence should indicate to you that maybe FFXI isn't suited for much more than a niche crowd and if SE is smart, they'll fix some of those issues.

As for action based combat? .....if you mean sitting there waiting for your character to swing again and waiting for TP, sure it was action based. The action came about once every 2 minutes during a fight.

I never got to end game. But I did get high enough (level 60 on my pally, level 30+ on several other jobs) to experience the core of the game very, very well. I'd hardly like to see a "WoW" clone but I would like to see a step away from the tedious waiting-fest FFXI was.

Thing is doesn't matter what we could or could not put up with in FFXI, this new game won't be FFXI and it won't play like FFXI.

It won't be or play like WoW either. It's going to be it's own thing and that's something to be really excited about, and as for people not understanding the insta hype it's because of their track record if you love and play most FF's you can predict what you will get in more then a few areas.

Square Enix is always at the top of the game, even though some of their ventures a few years ago didn't go so well, FF14 won't be rehashed mechanics from FF11.

So anyway in conclusion and from looking at Dreams in Vana'diel and Zam forums it's pretty unanimous, people want a fresh new online game with a better progression (not just leveling) but no WoW copies or SE is going to have riots on their hands. :D

Originally posted by Shiva_Shadow

Originally posted by Cynthe

same mobs instead of competing with each other, or answer someone shouting for assistance.

Watching these threads it's like watching 2 people scream at each other while having their fingers stuck in their ears.

 

<giggles>  Well I usually just put in my earplugs because I don't like getting my fingers waxy. ^^

You're such a cutie!!! <3

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by toddze

We have very similar gaming styles WSIMike, I agree with every post you make.

I dislike the solo mentality in MMO's it makes no sense. If I wanted to play solo I will play a console game. Or a single player PC game. I just cant figure out why so many love the solo idea. MMO's are just a single player game with a chat box now. We will have to see but if FFXIV caters to this it will most likely be my last MMO. This was my last hope for an MMO to provide me with a new challenge. Not all hope is lost solo play can envolve alot of things and the main game can still be group oriented. 

 

You really don't understand it?  It typically boils down to a time commitment.  A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc.  When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time.  Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content.  It seems pretty simple to me.

The key for developers is finding the right balance.  Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like  you are playing with NPC's most of the time. 

A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.

On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.

He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.

He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.

He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.

It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.

 

Then he is the rare exception, especially when discussing a game like FF.  To be honest, most people with time intensive careers, don't typically "set goals" involving MMOs.  I know I haven't.  They play them to have fun, and have a brief respite from a busy life.

I'm honestly not sure what your point is here.  I was responding to a post that claims he "can't understand the appeal of solo play".  Limited time is typically one of the main reasons behind the growth in "solo" play in MMOs, which is one of the main reasons the genre has expanded exponentially.  Of course it is not the only reason, and I'm sure someone could give me some real life example of someone who only solos for a variety of other reasons, just like you just gave a RL example of one guy who fills his only free moments with FF with persistent dedication.

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by toddze

We have very similar gaming styles WSIMike, I agree with every post you make.

I dislike the solo mentality in MMO's it makes no sense. If I wanted to play solo I will play a console game. Or a single player PC game. I just cant figure out why so many love the solo idea. MMO's are just a single player game with a chat box now. We will have to see but if FFXIV caters to this it will most likely be my last MMO. This was my last hope for an MMO to provide me with a new challenge. Not all hope is lost solo play can envolve alot of things and the main game can still be group oriented. 

 

You really don't understand it?  It typically boils down to a time commitment.  A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc.  When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time.  Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content.  It seems pretty simple to me.

The key for developers is finding the right balance.  Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like  you are playing with NPC's most of the time. 

A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.

On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.

He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.

He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.

He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.

It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.

 

 

Then he is the rare exception, especially when discussing a game like FF.  To be honest, most people with time intensive careers, don't typically "set goals" involving MMOs.  I know I haven't.  They play them to have fun, and have a brief respite from a busy life.

I'm honestly not sure what your point is here.  I was responding to a post that claims he "can't understand the appeal of solo play".  Limited time is typically one of the main reasons behind the growth in "solo" play in MMOs, which is one of the main reasons the genre has expanded exponentially.  Of course it is not the only reason, and I'm sure someone could give me some real life example of someone who only solos for a variety of other reasons, just like you just gave a RL example of one guy who fills his only free moments with FF with persistent dedication.

Point taken.

When I first read your post, I took it in the context of "people with busy lives can't enjoy FFXI outside of casual activities" (for lack of a better way of putting it... generally speaking).

And I know that isn't necessarily the case. And, saying my friend is the exception may be so... but that's not really the point of my pointing him (and again, others I've known) out. The point is, if you set realistic goals and stick with it, you don't *have* to limit your play time to only "casual friendly" activities. You *can* experience more of FFXI on a limited schedule.

Guys, I'm sorry to say this...

"the heavy team-play aspect of FF11 has been deemphasized"

I get the impression that knowing your job and doing it well just won't be as critical in this new game. I never played FFXI but that aspect of it seemed like one of the strongest features of the game.