Way to early to call, that being said I must say im excited Bioware is making an MMO it being star wars is even better. If they fail ill be suprised.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

 Nah. He's perfectly right. That's the way this game is going to be in the eyes of the sandbox/SWG pre-CU/UO crowd. It will be a failure because it doesn't cater to their tastes and thus, can't be good. 

 

Everyone else....well, I'd advise people, as usual, to stay put and wait. As i said before, BioWare has a big chunk of respect from me, simply because so far, they have never disappointed me with a game, so I am fairly optimistic about this one. That the trailer doesn't tell anything about the game, is just common sense. 

 

And that in the end, people should wait for the final product to be just around the corner to make up their minds is also common sense. Except for the sandbox/UO crowd. Because for them, this game is definately not the one. I don't say this with a sense of anger or hatred towards those people, but just as a statement of fact. 

 

Cheers.

QFT
 

Originally posted by Draccan

 

New trailer looked sweet and awesome. But what is a cinematics trailer for a game? Nothing. Once you play the game it won't matter. Cinematics trailers are just fun. And this one rivalled some of the best cinematics I have seen.

 

But truth is that Bioware is still keeping major parts of what this game is about under wraps. But for sure some things can be concluded now:

1. Classes. Players will be stuck in one class.
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes
Seems to be eight classes. Jedi: Trooper, Jedi, Smuggler | Sith: Sith, Bounty Hunter

2. Factions. Players will be stuck in a faction - nothings points to mobility in allegiance.
Treaty of Coruscant = no real pvp
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/allegiances

3. Space. Not going to be included. We would have known by now.
Some will add: SWG didn't have it at launch, but this isn't 2003. Market is now very over-saturated with mmos and will be even more in a few years. Companies like Funcom counts on selling just enough copies at launch to give them a surplus. They know their games don't have lasting potential. ToR will have even less longevity than AoC.

4. Instances. Hard to say, but I wouldn't be surprised they go the way of AoC.

5. Crafting. Bioware states time and time again that this game is about story and heroes. Crafting is not part of their thought-proces. It isn't that slick, so why include it. Crafting is about creating your OWN story. And Bioware's idea of story-telling is that THEY need to direct your story.

6. Non-combat classes. This game will center on heroes. Meaning, vanilla gameplay with limited options. Don't expect anything but minor non-combat skills.

7.  Release date. Not going to be before 2011. These games always get postponed. Just wait and see. Could even be later.

8. Gameplay linear? Yes it will be. While technically possible to create great stories in a non-linear environment.

9. Housing? Player Cities? Housing and player cities also goes against the grain of their story-driven mmo where players are heroes, not housebuilder or crafters.

10. Combat system. Not much is known. But it will be smaller variety on the WoW/EQ formula. Sort of like other games like TCoS or AoC tries to change the formula. Don't expect something truly different, but something towards those lines. Maybe with a few twitch elements here and there.

11. Jedis. This time period is chosen to appeal to all the kids who wants to have a light-saber swining jedi (or sith). It is the lowest common denominator. There is no two ways about. But the uniqueness of the jedi character will drown in the multitudes of them after a while. Will that feeling of "wow a lightsaber" last?

12. PvP. A bit unclear. Except it to be children friendly. But since it is factional there must be some. A cross between WoW and WAR is not unheard of. Can anyone honestly expect something more hardcore with the direction this game is taking?

13. Graphics. Most likely next-gen graphics. Some improvements on existing ways of doing it. Maybe similar to AoC quality.

 

Conclusion:

This game is the NGE that LA always wanted. It will be linear, story-driven, have few hours of longevity, cater to the light-saber crowds, kids - tie in with graphical style of the Clone Wars, little crafting, not hardcore pvp, not many options, but lots of hand-holding and lead you through the maze..

Some might now jump in and say that it is guess-work, that we don't know all the facts; that maybe there will be deep crafting, hardcore pvp, housing, space flight etc. But these comments are ignorant and nothing to do with the truth. Truth is that the path of TOR is already set and it is set up for eye candy and a hollow gameplay. Not a real MMO as it won't be that massive or free.

Games make and break at launch now. There is no time to make space six to twelve months after (and what good did it really do SWG in the long run). There is no time to make that expansion that fixes all the problems (WAR + AoC). Either you make it or you will suffer a slow, suffocating death.

Bioware has taken the easy route of doing everything as simple and dumped-down as possible. It won't be hardcore pvp, it won't be massive diverse game with many play-options like crafting and non-combat professions.

What game companies does not understand is that the whole foundation of mmos is built around the principle that players should have the option of doing what THEY want in the game. Interact in many ways and not just kill-botting each other or npcs over and over. The combat oriented gamer should want the crafters and non-combatees to give flair and atmosphere to their game - to be able to interact with when needing an armour or a new weapon. This is what breathes life into the genre.

What Bioware is doing is to put one more nail in the mmo genre coffin. This game might get close to a million boxes sold or even 1.5 - but in the end it will be like many other mmos out there with empty, EMPTY servers after six months. People will buy it for the name, Star Wars, but leave when they see there is no freedom in this game. For Bioware it will mean not only breaking even, but also making a big chunk of cash - but for the players - the gaming community - it is just one more way to kill PC gaming..

 

Draccan

 

Update:
http://www.starwarsmmo.net/news/edge-magazine-bioware-interview/
The Old Republics Game Director - new interview:

"Most importantly, you never want people to have to look for fun. People want to be guided - they don't want to have to find the fun."

 

Do you think the game will have a potential 3-9 month average for player time?

Interesting post.

If it is the NGE LA wanted, at least it will be that from the beginning, polished and bug free with lots of content, not three different combat systems ramshackled together like NGE 1.0, and without betraying 300,000 subscribers, who woke up one day with a completely different game than the one they bought.

So far the general vibe i'm getting of SWTOR is that it will be half WoW and half Guild Wars. It may not be the type of game you want to play, but I hope, and all signs are pointing to, SWTOR being a quality game.

---

Originally posted by Draccan

 
New trailer looked sweet and awesome. But what is a cinematics trailer for a game? Nothing. Once you play the game it won't matter. Cinematics trailers are just fun. And this one rivalled some of the best cinematics I have seen.
 
But truth is that Bioware is still keeping major parts of what this game is about under wraps. But for sure some things can be concluded now:
1. Classes. Players will be stuck in one class.
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes
Seems to be eight classes. Jedi: Trooper, Jedi, Smuggler | Sith: Sith, Bounty Hunter
2. Factions. Players will be stuck in a faction - nothings points to mobility in allegiance.
Treaty of Coruscant = no real pvp
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/allegiances
3. Space. Not going to be included. We would have known by now.
Some will add: SWG didn't have it at launch, but this isn't 2003. Market is now very over-saturated with mmos and will be even more in a few years. Companies like Funcom counts on selling just enough copies at launch to give them a surplus. They know their games don't have lasting potential. ToR will have even less longevity than AoC.
4. Instances. Hard to say, but I wouldn't be surprised they go the way of AoC.
5. Crafting. Bioware states time and time again that this game is about story and heroes. Crafting is not part of their thought-proces. It isn't that slick, so why include it. Crafting is about creating your OWN story. And Bioware's idea of story-telling is that THEY need to direct your story.
6. Non-combat classes. This game will center on heroes. Meaning, vanilla gameplay with limited options. Don't expect anything but minor non-combat skills.
7.  Release date. Not going to be before 2011. These games always get postponed. Just wait and see. Could even be later.
8. Gameplay linear? Yes it will be. While technically possible to create great stories in a non-linear environment.
9. Housing? Player Cities? Housing and player cities also goes against the grain of their story-driven mmo where players are heroes, not housebuilder or crafters.
10. Combat system. Not much is known. But it will be smaller variety on the WoW/EQ formula. Sort of like other games like TCoS or AoC tries to change the formula. Don't expect something truly different, but something towards those lines. Maybe with a few twitch elements here and there.
11. Jedis. This time period is chosen to appeal to all the kids who wants to have a light-saber swining jedi (or sith). It is the lowest common denominator. There is no two ways about. But the uniqueness of the jedi character will drown in the multitudes of them after a while. Will that feeling of "wow a lightsaber" last?
12. PvP. A bit unclear. Except it to be children friendly. But since it is factional there must be some. A cross between WoW and WAR is not unheard of. Can anyone honestly expect something more hardcore with the direction this game is taking?
13. Graphics. Most likely next-gen graphics. Some improvements on existing ways of doing it. Maybe similar to AoC quality.
 
Conclusion:
This game is the NGE that LA always wanted. It will be linear, story-driven, have few hours of longevity, cater to the light-saber crowds, kids - tie in with graphical style of the Clone Wars, little crafting, not hardcore pvp, not many options, but lots of hand-holding and lead you through the maze..
Some might now jump in and say that it is guess-work, that we don't know all the facts; that maybe there will be deep crafting, hardcore pvp, housing, space flight etc. But these comments are ignorant and nothing to do with the truth. Truth is that the path of TOR is already set and it is set up for eye candy and a hollow gameplay. Not a real MMO as it won't be that massive or free.
Games make and break at launch now. There is no time to make space six to twelve months after (and what good did it really do SWG in the long run). There is no time to make that expansion that fixes all the problems (WAR + AoC). Either you make it or you will suffer a slow, suffocating death.
Bioware has taken the easy route of doing everything as simple and dumped-down as possible. It won't be hardcore pvp, it won't be massive diverse game with many play-options like crafting and non-combat professions.
What game companies does not understand is that the whole foundation of mmos is built around the principle that players should have the option of doing what THEY want in the game. Interact in many ways and not just kill-botting each other or npcs over and over. The combat oriented gamer should want the crafters and non-combatees to give flair and atmosphere to their game - to be able to interact with when needing an armour or a new weapon. This is what breathes life into the genre.
What Bioware is doing is to put one more nail in the mmo genre coffin. This game might get close to a million boxes sold or even 1.5 - but in the end it will be like many other mmos out there with empty, EMPTY servers after six months. People will buy it for the name, Star Wars, but leave when they see there is no freedom in this game. For Bioware it will mean not only breaking even, but also making a big chunk of cash - but for the players - the gaming community - it is just one more way to kill PC gaming..
 
Draccan
 
Update:
http://www.starwarsmmo.net/news/edge-magazine-bioware-interview/
The Old Republics Game Director - new interview:
"Most importantly, you never want people to have to look for fun. People want to be guided - they don't want to have to find the fun."
   

---

 lol Well its very obvious that you are comparing this game to Pre-cu, and doing so in a very childish manor i might add. Look the game might not be for you because its not a recreate of SWG, well you could feel that way, but you maybe missing out on something big. SWG had tons of issues but its biggest issues will always be its lack of star wars elements. 

Maybe thsi game isnt for you. You want SWG, not KOTOR.

If i am not mistaken the OP  is complaining about things that hasnt even been annoucned yet or am i wrong?

Originally posted by Draccan

Originally posted by Baltus

Originally posted by waranwowsuck

 

As far as whether it succeeds or fails who knows, Bioware has delivered EVERY other time they have made a game, but MMO's are a whole new beast. All I can say is time will tell. Be patient and don't be a fanboi or a doom and gloom prophet.

 

Amen!

 

So what happens when SW:ToR runs out of stories?

What will be left for the players when you are finished running around in a linear fashion?

 

Oh who knows.... maybe all the OTHER content they are putting into the game.  They've said many times that it will be story driven but will have open content as well.    It IS possible to do both you know.  I swear people are so freaking assinine about what they want in a game that they forget to see the forest for the trees.

While you're off doing that open content or just RP'ing or doing PVP or whatever else is in the game they will be adding more stories.  Just like every other MMO in existance has ever done.

It would be very interesting if the story mode would be all you needed to do to get to the level cap, effectively eliminating the grind that plagues most MMORPGs, after that you can start on whatever the endgame is.

Originally posted by LogothX

It would be very interesting if the story mode would be all you needed to do to get to the level cap, effectively eliminating the grind that plagues most MMORPGs, after that you can start on whatever the endgame is.

Yep, and they have said it is. They also hinted at another leveling system and said you have a choice of going out and just killing stuff. I assume it will be like standard RPGs where if you wanna be good in a pistol, you go out and use that pistol a lot, but your level will always be tied to to your story arc progression. Works for me.

Didnt bother to read the whole thread, but we all know what type of mmorpg SWTOR will be, so if you are not interested in that, just let it go ...

The best thing that could happen is that SWTOR will be a relative success, around 300k subs, and SWG pretty much dies since  having 2 EQ / WoW based Star Wars mmo's is most likely too much.

Then perhaps another company can buy SWG and fix it :p

Either way, Bioware has their vision, it will be more like a theme park, it will be more about solo play, but is that bad? If you don't like it, don't play it.

It will be something like LOTRO, a good game for people that like Tolkien, based on the EQ/WoW model with some minor improvements, but still a solid game for the people that like it.

This thread is just play silly with so little know about the game so far.

However, if you are correct, and it is an epic fail, then I will be quite surprised since Bioware has NEVER turned out an epic fail RPG yet. And might I also remind you, they have already done a Star Wars RPG in KOTOR and it was a huge hit.

So, the only thing that is an Epic Fail is this thread.

Originally posted by CyberWiz 

It will be something like LOTRO, a good game for people that like Tolkien, based on the EQ/WoW model with some minor improvements, but still a solid game for the people that like it. 

Yeah, but those knuckleheads aren't leet or hardcore or know what a "real" MMO is, so they don't count.

Only people who take a crap on every new game know what real gaming is all about. Their opinion is fact. Their pessimism is prophecy. Everyone knows there hasn't been a "real" MMO since [insert pre-CU SWG, pre-Trammel UO, or some obscure MUDD here]. And if you disagree, you're just a WoW diaper rash.

Oh and yes, I'm totally being factious. Calm down.

Originally posted by Thradar

I don't care what anyone says.

The game looks fun (so far).  I will buy it.  I will play it for 30 days.  If I still like it after 30 days I will subscribe.

The end.

 

Now, all you haters and obsessive whiners...keep on posting because I'm not listening.

Heheh, they can't let anything go, Kotor is its own thing and what it is or what it becomes is what it will be.
KOTOR is bad ass, and as thats that.

Stop over hyping the Jedi, you act like being a jedi is some crazy thing in which only those most dedicated show be allowed to even play or gander at.

Jedi arnt any different than Paladins, Druids, or Shaman. Class with heavy religious background that allows them to use mysitcle powers only obtainable from those that study their ways. Light sabers as some mystical weapon, funny how Han in episode 4 simply laughed at the light saber as a hunk of junk.

Stuck in a class, most games that do this are very successful, games that offer cross classing generally have problems with balance, management of classes, too many classes also generally dumb down the unique feel of each class. So whats the difference between my Ninja and rogue? o my ninja can run faster...

Also focusing on specific classes allows more class generated storylines, one of the great things WoW did early on was create unique class based quest that really emersed you into the story of your class, the problem is that they didn't continue this and simply stoped making these quest for most classes.

Status - July 20th:

It seems most predictions so far are pretty spot on. Bioware with their latest video revealed pretty much what this game is all about; it is about dumbing down to the masses.

Let me be clear: I have no doubts this game will sell 1-2 million boxes. But as MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME it is failing its target audience. Bioware deliberately is controlling the information flow. Their focus is clearly "story, story, story".

I will always claim that mmos are about the stories you create yourself. I think story arcs if made in the right way can be a great addition to the gameplay. However Bioware is not adding dynamic story arcs as an extra to the mmo experience. It is clear (without any crystal ball) that the game IS the story arcs.

Instanced, storyarc'ed play - with little freedom of choice for your character just will not appeal to me. Thus Bioware has failed me. I also feel it has failed the genre. It doesn't matter that ten or a even a hundred fans jump in and attack me. They still have failed. Why? Because the game will not be massive. It is clearly focused around forcefeeding players with their so-called story, and make all choices in the game about whether you say one or the other on the dialogue wheel.

This is not freedom. This is not massive. It is hardly roleplay. It is however about Bioware and LA wanting to sell a lot of boxes. And who can argue against them wanting to earn money.

The sad news is that we have to wait a long time for a successor to SWG. And it is now clear for the next decade or so it won't be in the form of a Star Wars game.

Well, the game can fail in your book, but if it has 1-2million or more people, I think your single opinion about the entire game is very unjustified. 

That is perfectly fine if you don't like what TOR is presenting, everyone is allowed that.  People dislike wow quite often. Yet they have to admit it is succesful and a good game.  Otherwise it would not have so many people playing.

If TOR does that well, and you still hate it just as much, but can't admit it is a good game for what it is trying to do, well, that just shows a little bit more about yourself now, doesn't it?

Originally posted by Swanea

Well, the game can fail in your book, but if it has 1-2million or more people, I think your single opinion about the entire game is very unjustified. 

That is perfectly fine if you don't like what TOR is presenting, everyone is allowed that.  People dislike wow quite often. Yet they have to admit it is succesful and a good game.  Otherwise it would not have so many people playing.

If TOR does that well, and you still hate it just as much, but can't admit it is a good game for what it is trying to do, well, that just shows a little bit more about yourself now, doesn't it?

Nonsense! What about retention? 

Let's see what people say 3-6 months after release! As an MMORPG it is already a failure!

how can a game be an epic fail this early into development . we have very little information as to what the game will be like . its a bit like talking about a movie thats in preproduction without a cast or script that anyones seen and saying its going to be a turkey before its even been made . i dont like to call people stupid but i think the OP reallly has opened himself up to such accusations in this thread .

Originally posted by googajoob7

how can a game be an epic fail this early into development . we have very little information as to what the game will be like . its a bit like talking about a movie thats in preproduction without a cast or script that anyones seen and saying its going to be a turkey before its even been made . i dont like to call people stupid but i think the OP reallly has opened himself up to such accusations in this thread .

it may upset the 'fanbois' but thats how its looking, its 'guildwars in space' complete with 6 iconic classes.. yawn, you know, if this game ever gets released, i can see it getting a major caning. course, they have to get it released first.