Originally posted by luciusETRUR

Seamless, huge worlds, are really not a good idea right now, unless you have the resources to back you up to get the game ready for a good launch. It's unrealistic, and I think companies realize that instancing is needed. However, we need huge zones of instancing, rather than medium-sized ones that we see today. EverQuest II is a good example of huge zones, but with instancing involved. It also makes it easier to run the game, as well, and I think these are the reasons instancing isn't going anywhere.

However, if you have the resources and the time to do seamless, then I think that's a good way to go. It would be awesome if that was the case, maybe Blizzard's next MMO will be seamless.. who knows. SOE, Microsoft and Blizzard are the only companies that really have that choice right now, though. 

EQ2 was nothing but pure fail and only a pure fanboi would try to lift it up. This was the first instanced MMO I played with my buddy and we didn't know what the heck was going on. We were in the same place, talking to the exact same NPC, yet couldnt find each other.

After a few minutes we finally figured out we were split by 'instances' and managed to merge into same one.

Finally we get off newbie isle and we think the worst was behind us. Nope!

We get to the town, Quenos (good town), and once again we split by instances. Why in hell is a TOWN split by instances we keep asking each other. Then we go hunting and once again same crap

Instances are employed wholesale by lazy devs period. The only Instanced pseudo-MMO we enjoyed was guild wars even though we ran into multiple issues with their instancing as well.

Instancing seriously removes the 'depth' one looks for in an MMO. Turns them into overpriced First Person Shooters with worst combat. Even guild wars eventually got old due to lack of depth

Bah was just thinking I did play City of Heroes for awhile and that game was so instanced it matches Guild Wars almost. I did enjoy that game for a bit although the heavy instancing finally got me.

Hoping one day we will see a real superhero MMO done right tho

Originally posted by kakarotrage

Something that hit me when I got to try Aion , a game I was looking for , was the annoying feeling of instanced small zones, I realized I can't go back to that and the next mmo I'll be playing must have a huge amazing world to explore as a minimum like WoW and Lineage 2,

what do you think?

Depends, if devs can actually pull off epic PvP battles between players or PvE then sure.  If it ends up like it does even in WoW where it turns into a freakin' lagfest then screw that least at places they know events like that will take place. I would much rather have my gameplay intact by having those places instanced or located on a separate server than have a huge open world that runs like shit whenever people try revving things up or at times cause multiple people to crash or even crash the damn server.

So I guess my actual answer is no since least from everything I've seen so far they can't do that.

Originally posted by Adam1902

Originally posted by Axehilt

Adam1902, you may not realize it but games are created to be fun. Letting the 1% griefer population ruin the fun of the 99% normal population is retarded.

 

Free open worlds are fun, the fun of it is that anything could happen.
Tell me please, how is logging into your game, and seeing a boss in the town with 200+ players (some are friends some are enemies, tough shit they have to work together for now) killing it. Why isn't this fun? *puts head in hands* I don't get it!! Don't people like this kind of action in their games? Never knowing what the hell to expect? Am I the only one on this forum or what?

Also, I think the term "grief" has been taken out of context in games today. I define griefing, as doing something that prevents someone else from playing the game. Where your actions, result in someone else not being able to do anything at all. Nowadays if someones fighting a boss what I want, and I kill them - I'm a griefer.
If I'm grinding, and other people start killing mobs in "our" mob spawn, and we kill them - we're griefers.

I don't understand this mentality, honestly. If you're not preventing someone from playing the game, it isn't griefing. Heck, find a different mob spawn! If there's an epic boss fight in the town you're in, and for some reason you don't like it. Go to another town!

Players actions should have impact on how other players play the game, isn't that what an MMO is about? If you're griefing someone, giving them no other option but to log out, fair enough, that's bad. Nobody likes that.

PS. Sorry for 2 posts in a row, I don't know how to quote twice on this forum.

EDIT: hidden1, going to have a look at Tera now, as in find out more info about it. ;) Those screenshots do look real nice.

the following boss fight had me drooling like Homer Simpson...
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQPn8bnLOu8&feature=related

Originally posted by kakarotrage

Originally posted by Anciegher

 Do you seriously need to ask this? I bet 99 out of 100 people would prefer a big seamless world if it was possible.

 

I really don't know that... otherwise I can't understand why they make Aion not only instanced and small but also have channels, which is the worst thing you can do to an mmo imo.

Imho the worst thing you can do to mmo is making it a "lunch game". Anyway I preffer seamless worlds but only if there are teleports or horses, or any other way to travel fast.

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by luciusETRUR

Seamless, huge worlds, are really not a good idea right now, unless you have the resources to back you up to get the game ready for a good launch. It's unrealistic, and I think companies realize that instancing is needed. However, we need huge zones of instancing, rather than medium-sized ones that we see today. EverQuest II is a good example of huge zones, but with instancing involved. It also makes it easier to run the game, as well, and I think these are the reasons instancing isn't going anywhere.

However, if you have the resources and the time to do seamless, then I think that's a good way to go. It would be awesome if that was the case, maybe Blizzard's next MMO will be seamless.. who knows. SOE, Microsoft and Blizzard are the only companies that really have that choice right now, though. 

 

EQ2 was nothing but pure fail and only a pure fanboi would try to lift it up. This was the first instanced MMO I played with my buddy and we didn't know what the heck was going on. We were in the same place, talking to the exact same NPC, yet couldnt find each other.

After a few minutes we finally figured out we were split by 'instances' and managed to merge into same one.

Finally we get off newbie isle and we think the worst was behind us. Nope!

We get to the town, Quenos (good town), and once again we split by instances. Why in hell is a TOWN split by instances we keep asking each other. Then we go hunting and once again same crap

 

Instances are employed wholesale by lazy devs period. The only Instanced pseudo-MMO we enjoyed was guild wars even though we ran into multiple issues with their instancing as well.

 

Instancing seriously removes the 'depth' one looks for in an MMO. Turns them into overpriced First Person Shooters with worst combat. Even guild wars eventually got old due to lack of depth

I'm not sure when you played.. but that isn't how the game works anymore. I never played EQ2 when it was like that. There is not several instances to each zone, each zone is instanced, though. A lot of people complain about loading screens, but I've never heard of this problem. 
 

Instancing is done by lazy developers? I really can't picture this logic.. any developer that embarks on creating an MMO is definitely not lazy.

Originally posted by hidden1

Originally posted by Adam1902

Originally posted by Axehilt

Adam1902, you may not realize it but games are created to be fun. Letting the 1% griefer population ruin the fun of the 99% normal population is retarded.

 

Free open worlds are fun, the fun of it is that anything could happen.
Tell me please, how is logging into your game, and seeing a boss in the town with 200+ players (some are friends some are enemies, tough shit they have to work together for now) killing it. Why isn't this fun? *puts head in hands* I don't get it!! Don't people like this kind of action in their games? Never knowing what the hell to expect? Am I the only one on this forum or what?

Also, I think the term "grief" has been taken out of context in games today. I define griefing, as doing something that prevents someone else from playing the game. Where your actions, result in someone else not being able to do anything at all. Nowadays if someones fighting a boss what I want, and I kill them - I'm a griefer.
If I'm grinding, and other people start killing mobs in "our" mob spawn, and we kill them - we're griefers.

I don't understand this mentality, honestly. If you're not preventing someone from playing the game, it isn't griefing. Heck, find a different mob spawn! If there's an epic boss fight in the town you're in, and for some reason you don't like it. Go to another town!

Players actions should have impact on how other players play the game, isn't that what an MMO is about? If you're griefing someone, giving them no other option but to log out, fair enough, that's bad. Nobody likes that.

PS. Sorry for 2 posts in a row, I don't know how to quote twice on this forum.

EDIT: hidden1, going to have a look at Tera now, as in find out more info about it. ;) Those screenshots do look real nice.

the following boss fight had me drooling like Homer Simpson...
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQPn8bnLOu8&feature=related

Me too :)
saw it just before I read your post.

There's lots of interesting stuff on Tera here. Sounds great, and from reading that it sounds like they're all for open PvP and guild politics, and their will even be systems in the game to support stuff like this. Sounds amazing. My first MMO, which I will play again and always compare MMOs to it, was developed in Korea. Koreans have the right idea as far as instancing and PvP are concerned, PvP shouldn't be a seperate shitty little mini-game.

I've also read multiple times that they want to beat the goal for most concurrent users on a server, this probably excludes EvE ofcourse (because each zone is technicly run on a different server), because they will have to build a world large enough to support this number of people (which is easier to do in a game set in space)
Anyway, a game that wants to actually create a living breathing world (read around on that link, says something like "they will be working on the RPG element, aswell as the MMO element, meaning things like the games economy, etc).

Sounds really interesting, definately going to keep myself informed on Tera. :)

Originally posted by Adam1902

Originally posted by Axehilt

Adam1902, you may not realize it but games are created to be fun. Letting the 1% griefer population ruin the fun of the 99% normal population is retarded.

 

Free open worlds are fun, the fun of it is that anything could happen.
Tell me please, how is logging into your game, and seeing a boss in the town with 200+ players (some are friends some are enemies, tough shit they have to work together for now) killing it. Why isn't this fun? *puts head in hands* I don't get it!! Don't people like this kind of action in their games? Never knowing what the hell to expect? Am I the only one on this forum or what?

Also, I think the term "grief" has been taken out of context in games today. I define griefing, as doing something that prevents someone else from playing the game. Where your actions, result in someone else not being able to do anything at all. Nowadays if someones fighting a boss what I want, and I kill them - I'm a griefer.

Killing someone who's fighting a boss you want isn't griefing.

Pulling a high-level boss into a lowbie town is.

I don't know if you've ever played a MMORPG before, but that average lowbie town probably has a grand total of six characters in various states of entering/leaving town, or AFKing.  If a high level player pulls a mob into town even 30 levels above them, they're utterly griefed - there's no way they're going to survive.

"Everyone starts in the same town" as a 'solution' to newbie griefing?  Seriously?!?! Lowbies go somewhere in the world to quest/kill - that's where the griefing happens.

Dynamic, interesting world content?  Great!  And it can be done without enabling players to exploit mob placement!

75-man world raids?  Fine (as long as they don't dominate the game; 200+ player raids is probably a tad ridiculous.)

Haphazardly dragging mobs around the world and leave them there? Retarded.  It ruins the gameplay, it ruins the visuals (why is most of this encampment empty except for the 20 mobs piled into this small tent?), it's a vessel for griefing, it's just flat out bad.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Adam1902

Originally posted by Axehilt

Adam1902, you may not realize it but games are created to be fun. Letting the 1% griefer population ruin the fun of the 99% normal population is retarded.

 

Free open worlds are fun, the fun of it is that anything could happen.
Tell me please, how is logging into your game, and seeing a boss in the town with 200+ players (some are friends some are enemies, tough shit they have to work together for now) killing it. Why isn't this fun? *puts head in hands* I don't get it!! Don't people like this kind of action in their games? Never knowing what the hell to expect? Am I the only one on this forum or what?

Also, I think the term "grief" has been taken out of context in games today. I define griefing, as doing something that prevents someone else from playing the game. Where your actions, result in someone else not being able to do anything at all. Nowadays if someones fighting a boss what I want, and I kill them - I'm a griefer.

Killing someone who's fighting a boss you want isn't griefing.

Pulling a high-level boss into a lowbie town is.

I don't know if you've ever played a MMORPG before, but that average lowbie town probably has a grand total of six characters in various states of entering/leaving town, or AFKing.  If a high level player pulls a mob into town even 30 levels above them, they're utterly griefed - there's no way they're going to survive.

Please remember, that in most MMOs, something exists called "guards".

"Everyone starts in the same town" as a 'solution' to newbie griefing?  Seriously?!?! Lowbies go somewhere in the world to quest/kill - that's where the griefing happens.

Not everyone starts in the same town, if I said that - I apologise. What I meant was, the town the high levels use, should be the very same town which newbies start in. Segregating newbies to their own towns is just telling griefers where to grief.

Dynamic, interesting world content?  Great!  And it can be done without enabling players to exploit mob placement!

You are probably imagining free mobs (that's what I'll call them) in some new game you're playing. Have you ever played a game that's well suited to this? Honestly, it's very good. And doesn't feel like anything is being exploited.

75-man world raids?  Fine (as long as they don't dominate the game; 200+ player raids is probably a tad ridiculous.)

Why is it ridiculous? Honestly, their is far more than 75 people in the same place for quite alot of events in many games. Often far more than 200.

Haphazardly dragging mobs around the world and leave them there? Retarded.  It ruins the gameplay, it ruins the visuals (why is most of this encampment empty except for the 20 mobs piled into this small tent?), it's a vessel for griefing, it's just flat out bad.

Yes in a situation like this free mobs is not the way to go. Again, you are imagining free mobs in some new game you're playing, which obviously wouldn't suit this game.

I don't even know where to start, so I'm going to do it the retarded lazy prick way. Sorry.

Wait - wehn you say small instances zones... do you mean small zones, or really that they have instances - as in zone x will have instance 1, instance 2, insance 3 of zone x? (ie like AoC)

Zones I can live with, though I dont like it... instancing them on top of that murders the game imo.

Originally posted by Adam1902

Killing someone who's fighting a boss you want isn't griefing.

Pulling a high-level boss into a lowbie town is.

I don't know if you've ever played a MMORPG before, but that average lowbie town probably has a grand total of six characters in various states of entering/leaving town, or AFKing.  If a high level player pulls a mob into town even 30 levels above them, they're utterly griefed - there's no way they're going to survive.

Please remember, that in most MMOs, something exists called "guards".

"Everyone starts in the same town" as a 'solution' to newbie griefing?  Seriously?!?! Lowbies go somewhere in the world to quest/kill - that's where the griefing happens.

Not everyone starts in the same town, if I said that - I apologise. What I meant was, the town the high levels use, should be the very same town which newbies start in. Segregating newbies to their own towns is just telling griefers where to grief.

Dynamic, interesting world content?  Great!  And it can be done without enabling players to exploit mob placement!

You are probably imagining free mobs (that's what I'll call them) in some new game you're playing. Have you ever played a game that's well suited to this? Honestly, it's very good. And doesn't feel like anything is being exploited.

75-man world raids?  Fine (as long as they don't dominate the game; 200+ player raids is probably a tad ridiculous.)

Why is it ridiculous? Honestly, their is far more than 75 people in the same place for quite alot of events in many games. Often far more than 200.

Haphazardly dragging mobs around the world and leave them there? Retarded.  It ruins the gameplay, it ruins the visuals (why is most of this encampment empty except for the 20 mobs piled into this small tent?), it's a vessel for griefing, it's just flat out bad.

Yes in a situation like this free mobs is not the way to go. Again, you are imagining free mobs in some new game you're playing, which obviously wouldn't suit this game.

I don't even know where to start, so I'm going to do it the retarded lazy prick way. Sorry.

At least you're honest.

1. You stated some epic, imagined "200 players vs. boss" fight inside the newbie town to beat off the high-level boss that was kited there.  So I guess that means 6 lowbies plus 194 guards then?

2. You keep missing the point: Griefers know where to grief.  Fixed starting locations or not, griefers know where the lowbies are.  If there's other reasons you think starting locations shouldn't be fixed, that's fine -- "to avoid griefers" isn't a valid one.  Unless you're going really epic in an EVE-like MMO where the world's ridiculously large.

3. Describe an MMO where "free mobs" works. I can't imagine it working in any MMORPG I've played.  Normally I can see the relative pros/cons of a game feature, even if I don't personally like it, but in this case it's a list of significant cons with zero pros.

Originally posted by Elikal

Is that a catch question? Does ANYONE prefer instanced zones over an open world, when there would be a choice???

Well, things are usually not that simple because you can make the game a lot prettier with instances.

Anyways, Jeff Strain who made the zooning in Wow say that he invented a totaly new way of doing things without zones that will be featured in GW2, I am not sure exactly how it will work but I am guessing that the computer will load in the stuff around you as you move instead of loading in a zone at the time (or 2 zones at a time like in Wow). If anyone can make a better system it is him.

But yes, If everything else is the same anyone prefer the big open world, with the possible exception of a few griefers that prefer a smaller area to gank people in. But on the other hand is great looking graphics good too, I want both :)

Originally posted by lornphoenix

Tho the starting areas in Aion are a little small, it didn't feel zoned off to me.

Anyway I perfer, large mostly seemless worlds. And I'm all from Instance dungeons.. I don't like the idea of fighting for spawns.

I remember hearing of a RvR game where the world would be seemless... but dungeons were instanced, like WoW...
But the catch was a group from the other faction could join your instance and fight your group for control of it.
I just can't remember the name of the game... I think I could deal with some like that, tho.

@lornphoenix  I thought Aion was set up so that the opposing faction can enter the instanced dungeons. I thought that was an awesome Idea I love PvP and Open world PvP but this sounds even better.   I always wanted to PvP in FFXI just kill off somone trying to steal your camp or vice versa.  It would have been even better to kill off the people camping NM.

I don't mind zoned areas as long as the zones are big enough. FFXI had pretty big zones so it felt like a huge open world.  

The OP made it sound like Aion was zoned and instanced like AoC does anyone know if that is true?

Edit: Oh yeah and the screens for Tera look awesome its just that one huge mage guy looks exaclty like a Galka from FFXI.

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by lornphoenix

Tho the starting areas in Aion are a little small, it didn't feel zoned off to me.

Anyway I perfer, large mostly seemless worlds. And I'm all from Instance dungeons.. I don't like the idea of fighting for spawns.

I remember hearing of a RvR game where the world would be seemless... but dungeons were instanced, like WoW...
But the catch was a group from the other faction could join your instance and fight your group for control of it.
I just can't remember the name of the game... I think I could deal with some like that, tho.

@lornphoenix  I thought Aion was set up so that the opposing faction can enter the instanced dungeons. I thought that was an awesome Idea I love PvP and Open world PvP but this sounds even better.   I always wanted to PvP in FFXI just kill off somone trying to steal your camp or vice versa.  It would have been even better to kill off the people camping NM.

I don't mind zoned areas as long as the zones are big enough. FFXI had pretty big zones so it felt like a huge open world.  

 

The OP made it sound like Aion was zoned and instanced like AoC does anyone know if that is true?

 

Edit: Oh yeah and the screens for Tera look awesome its just that one huge mage guy looks exaclty like a Galka from FFXI.

I played to level 15 and every zone was just small.. I really didn't feel like I'm in a real world like WoW/Lineage 2 where you can start going and exploring the world, which leads to the next issue which is huge for me :Channels , each zone you were in had channels (meaning me and you can stand in the same server in the same place but we're in different channel so we don't exist in the same world  - to anyone who doesn't know) which is the worte thing you can do in an mmo in my opinion.. for me it's like, instead of huge orizons and a living world, you're in a small enviorment with a just alot less people and the world isn't really a world.

Originally posted by kakarotrage

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by lornphoenix

Tho the starting areas in Aion are a little small, it didn't feel zoned off to me.

Anyway I perfer, large mostly seemless worlds. And I'm all from Instance dungeons.. I don't like the idea of fighting for spawns.

I remember hearing of a RvR game where the world would be seemless... but dungeons were instanced, like WoW...
But the catch was a group from the other faction could join your instance and fight your group for control of it.
I just can't remember the name of the game... I think I could deal with some like that, tho.

@lornphoenix  I thought Aion was set up so that the opposing faction can enter the instanced dungeons. I thought that was an awesome Idea I love PvP and Open world PvP but this sounds even better.   I always wanted to PvP in FFXI just kill off somone trying to steal your camp or vice versa.  It would have been even better to kill off the people camping NM.

I don't mind zoned areas as long as the zones are big enough. FFXI had pretty big zones so it felt like a huge open world.  

 

The OP made it sound like Aion was zoned and instanced like AoC does anyone know if that is true?

 

Edit: Oh yeah and the screens for Tera look awesome its just that one huge mage guy looks exaclty like a Galka from FFXI.

 

I played to level 15 and every zone was just small.. I really didn't feel like I'm in a real world like WoW/Lineage 2 where you can start going and exploring the world, which leads to the next issue which is huge for me :Channels , each zone you were in had channels (meaning me and you can stand in the same server in the same place but we're in different channel so we don't exist in the same world  - to anyone who doesn't know) which is the worte thing you can do in an mmo in my opinion.. for me it's like, instead of huge orizons and a living world, you're in a small enviorment with a just alot less people and the world isn't really a world.

Man that is a bummer,  I was kinda looking forward to the game but I still have a few other games that hopefully won't dissapoint me.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Adam1902

Killing someone who's fighting a boss you want isn't griefing.

Pulling a high-level boss into a lowbie town is.

I don't know if you've ever played a MMORPG before, but that average lowbie town probably has a grand total of six characters in various states of entering/leaving town, or AFKing.  If a high level player pulls a mob into town even 30 levels above them, they're utterly griefed - there's no way they're going to survive.

Please remember, that in most MMOs, something exists called "guards".

"Everyone starts in the same town" as a 'solution' to newbie griefing?  Seriously?!?! Lowbies go somewhere in the world to quest/kill - that's where the griefing happens.

Not everyone starts in the same town, if I said that - I apologise. What I meant was, the town the high levels use, should be the very same town which newbies start in. Segregating newbies to their own towns is just telling griefers where to grief.

Dynamic, interesting world content?  Great!  And it can be done without enabling players to exploit mob placement!

You are probably imagining free mobs (that's what I'll call them) in some new game you're playing. Have you ever played a game that's well suited to this? Honestly, it's very good. And doesn't feel like anything is being exploited.

75-man world raids?  Fine (as long as they don't dominate the game; 200+ player raids is probably a tad ridiculous.)

Why is it ridiculous? Honestly, their is far more than 75 people in the same place for quite alot of events in many games. Often far more than 200.

Haphazardly dragging mobs around the world and leave them there? Retarded.  It ruins the gameplay, it ruins the visuals (why is most of this encampment empty except for the 20 mobs piled into this small tent?), it's a vessel for griefing, it's just flat out bad.

Yes in a situation like this free mobs is not the way to go. Again, you are imagining free mobs in some new game you're playing, which obviously wouldn't suit this game.

I don't even know where to start, so I'm going to do it the retarded lazy prick way. Sorry.

At least you're honest.

1. You stated some epic, imagined "200 players vs. boss" fight inside the newbie town to beat off the high-level boss that was kited there.  So I guess that means 6 lowbies plus 194 guards then?

2. You keep missing the point: Griefers know where to grief.  Fixed starting locations or not, griefers know where the lowbies are.  If there's other reasons you think starting locations shouldn't be fixed, that's fine -- "to avoid griefers" isn't a valid one.  Unless you're going really epic in an EVE-like MMO where the world's ridiculously large.

3. Describe an MMO where "free mobs" works. I can't imagine it working in any MMORPG I've played.  Normally I can see the relative pros/cons of a game feature, even if I don't personally like it, but in this case it's a list of significant cons with zero pros.

1) We are assuming newbies are spawning in the main town, used by all the higher levels too, right? Newbies are alongside higher levels throughout the whole game. Not in starter towns especially for them.

2) ^ Look at "1".

3) Legend of Mir. - My first MMO, which has set standard for me. Every MMO I play, this is what I compare it with. And this is the game I'm sort-of visualising when I've been replying here. I'm starting up with a r/l friend for the re-launch of this game too. I'd assume it was this way in Ultima aswell, but I might be wrong, because I never played it for myself.
However, in this game, it wouldn't be possible to lure most mobs into the town, since dungeons are in seperate (un-instanced, no loading screen) zones.

EDIT: Oh yeah, don't knock Mirs graphics. ;) Be gentle. At the time, I remember showing my mates the game and they'd go "Woah!". It's also 2D, which is probably one of the main reasons it works nicely with "free mobs".

Instancing = suck

channeling = double suck

zones = totally fine, but not ideal

Honestly, I think instancing is one of the things tearing some of these recent MMOs apart. It's taking the "MM" out of "MMORPG". Honestly, even dungeon instancing drives me crazy. Adam1902 said it best. All of that competitive open world stuff is what makes MMORPGs so much fun! Sure it can be annoying every once in awhile when someone "steals your kill" or PKs you but that doesn't happen all the time and the reward for being in an open world to me far outweigh those bad experiences you may have every once in awhile.

On another note, why must we completely overhaul game mechanics in order to accomidate those that feel like they're constantly being "griefed"? First of all, that's overreacting. If by being griefed you mean being PKed in a game with PvP then you need to get a dose of reality...It's part of the game!! Secondly, I don't agree with the implementation of instances for the purpose of eliminating competition for spawns, bosses, etc. It's part of the game too. That's why they're Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games. Whatever maybe I'm "hardcore" just because I don't want everything in a game to be handed to me on a silver platter.

Originally posted by whatamidoing

Instancing = suck

channeling = double suck

zones = totally fine, but not ideal

Honestly, I think instancing is one of the things tearing some of these recent MMOs apart. It's taking the "MM" out of "MMORPG". Honestly, even dungeon instancing drives me crazy. Adam1902 said it best. All of that competitive open world stuff is what makes MMORPGs so much fun! Sure it can be annoying every once in awhile when someone "steals your kill" or PKs you but that doesn't happen all the time and the reward for being in an open world to me far outweigh those bad experiences you may have every once in awhile.

On another note, why must we completely overhaul game mechanics in order to accomidate those that feel like they're constantly being "griefed"? First of all, that's overreacting. If by being griefed you mean being PKed in a game with PvP then you need to get a dose of reality...It's part of the game!! Secondly, I don't agree with the implementation of instances for the purpose of eliminating competition for spawns, bosses, etc. It's part of the game too. That's why they're Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games. Whatever maybe I'm "hardcore" just because I don't want everything in a game to be handed to me on a silver platter.

Perfect.
Someone who relates to me on MMORPG.com, wow!

Well said, totally agreed.

I don't care if a game world  is small, large, seemless or zoned.

As long as the bastard isn't cut up into multiple instance copies of every zone im ok.

Originally posted by whatamidoing

Instancing = suck

channeling = double suck

zones = totally fine, but not ideal

Honestly, I think instancing is one of the things tearing some of these recent MMOs apart. It's taking the "MM" out of "MMORPG". Honestly, even dungeon instancing drives me crazy. Adam1902 said it best. All of that competitive open world stuff is what makes MMORPGs so much fun! Sure it can be annoying every once in awhile when someone "steals your kill" or PKs you but that doesn't happen all the time and the reward for being in an open world to me far outweigh those bad experiences you may have every once in awhile.

On another note, why must we completely overhaul game mechanics in order to accomidate those that feel like they're constantly being "griefed"? First of all, that's overreacting. If by being griefed you mean being PKed in a game with PvP then you need to get a dose of reality...It's part of the game!! Secondly, I don't agree with the implementation of instances for the purpose of eliminating competition for spawns, bosses, etc. It's part of the game too. That's why they're Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games. Whatever maybe I'm "hardcore" just because I don't want everything in a game to be handed to me on a silver platter.

I'd have to say, you're right. However, we as a community, need to stop expecting MMOs to be perfect at release. Even moreso, quit labeling MMOs as great before they release and understand the business side of things. Instancing is easier to do, because seamless is harder to run.
 

I do think seamless should be used primarily, and if need be, make dungeons instanced, kind of like in World of Warcraft. However, Vanguard did go the right way in everything being seamless, it's a shame they released the game too early.