Finally, the sony is the devil posts are starting to appear. Must have been a busy weekend as it took them long enough.

honestly who cares, Matrix Online was the biggest pile of crap I've ever seen or played, I'm glad its gone... I have no clue why any of you were even playing it.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

I doubt if any sony mmo's  are losing money. What some do not understand is that in the world of business its not about making money vs. losing money its about making enough money to make it worth while vs. just getting by.  Why would SOE or any company want to squeak by or break even? Savvy business people know when its time to close up shop and again, savvy, folks do so before the loss not after.  SOE makes money, if it didnt it would not exist. Some games make more than others of course but at the end of the day they all pull their weight or they disappear.  Matrix is over but did it lose money for Sony?  Sorry to burst the bubble of the "Sony is failing" crowd but its the way it is.

Not to stray off topic, but you are making this huge assumption that all people in business are "savvy".  The business/corporate world is full of people who are completely lacking in business sense, that's why companies lose money (daily), go bankrupt, make horrible decisision, etc, every day.  I'm not saying Sony's games are or aren't making money, but many companies operate in the red, or struggle to get by, or struggle to retain employees because they have something on the horizon (or so they think). 

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by grandpagamer

I doubt if any sony mmo's  are losing money. What some do not understand is that in the world of business its not about making money vs. losing money its about making enough money to make it worth while vs. just getting by.  Why would SOE or any company want to squeak by or break even? Savvy business people know when its time to close up shop and again, savvy, folks do so before the loss not after.  SOE makes money, if it didnt it would not exist. Some games make more than others of course but at the end of the day they all pull their weight or they disappear.  Matrix is over but did it lose money for Sony?  Sorry to burst the bubble of the "Sony is failing" crowd but its the way it is.

 

Not to stray off topic, but you are making this huge assumption that all people in business are "savvy".  The business/corporate world is full of people who are completely lacking in business sense, that's why companies lose money (daily), go bankrupt, make horrible decisision, etc, every day.  I'm not saying Sony's games are or aren't making money, but many companies operate in the red, or struggle to get by, or struggle to retain employees because they have something on the horizon (or so they think). 

In SOE's case I certainly won't buy that they are "savvy" when their managment is more famous for creating (by what they thought WAS "savvyness") the Prime Directive for the MMO industry which reads: "Thou Shalt Not NGE".

Originally posted by LaTigre

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by grandpagamer

I doubt if any sony mmo's  are losing money. What some do not understand is that in the world of business its not about making money vs. losing money its about making enough money to make it worth while vs. just getting by.  Why would SOE or any company want to squeak by or break even? Savvy business people know when its time to close up shop and again, savvy, folks do so before the loss not after.  SOE makes money, if it didnt it would not exist. Some games make more than others of course but at the end of the day they all pull their weight or they disappear.  Matrix is over but did it lose money for Sony?  Sorry to burst the bubble of the "Sony is failing" crowd but its the way it is.

 

Not to stray off topic, but you are making this huge assumption that all people in business are "savvy".  The business/corporate world is full of people who are completely lacking in business sense, that's why companies lose money (daily), go bankrupt, make horrible decisision, etc, every day.  I'm not saying Sony's games are or aren't making money, but many companies operate in the red, or struggle to get by, or struggle to retain employees because they have something on the horizon (or so they think). 

 

In SOE's case I certainly won't buy that they are "savvy" when their managment is more famous for creating (by what they thought WAS "savvyness") the Prime Directive for the MMO industry which reads: "Thou Shalt Not NGE".

 

Yep im sure sony is and ha been losing money for the last 15 yrs or so, how amazing it is they can stay in business.

Originally posted by LaTigre

In their defense, they acquired MXO well after Warner Brothers had screwed it up.  Indeed, it makes no sense why they even wanted it, except to act as filler in the station pass, perhaps to add a 2nd Sci-Fi title so as to entice SWG subscribers to go station pass.

SWG though is totally SOE's baby in terms of failure, poor management, and poor development.

Even though I despise SOE, it wouldn't be fair to blame them for MXO or Vanguard, as neither game would have lasted as long as they have without their takeover.  That said, however, I think taking those games over and spending anything on them was yet another mistake of SOE mismanagement.

SOE took over running the matrix as part of a deal invovling the rights to a DC comics based mmo.

Yes the matrix was a mess when they got it, but they never really tried with this game either.  They pretty much killed the game as soon as they got it when they killed the story telling feature which was central to the game. 

Originally posted by BlackWatch

SOE needs to feel some pain for using great IP like 'the Matrix' or 'Star Wars' and completely screwing up the delivery as an MMORPG. 

Seriously, I wonder what would've happened to these 2 solid titles if they would've been handled by other companies.  As it is, 1 is dead (with an official toe tag/body bag) and another is very nearly dead... iron lung.

 

I remember hearing about the Matrix online from a friend.  I was like, "No way, a Matrix MMO?  The MMO genre was made for the Matrix.  It is the Matrix!"  I was pumped.  Then I saw that it was being run by Sony.  I was playing SWG at the time, and we were really feeling shafted with broken promises, unfixed bugs and one of the many revamps.  Still, I thought, "Maybe they only screw up the StarWars game, and the Matrix will be okay."  So, I went over to their forums to see what players thought about it.  Then I went to other sites, like this one, to see how it was rated.  The first thing I read was an announcement from a dev about an upcoming combat revamp....  My response?  You've got to be kidding; no thanks.

If any MMO should have succeeded based on the appeal of its IP, you'd think it would be the Matrix...or Star Wars for that matter.  When I saw that SOE was doing DC comics online, my first thought was, "I'm glad I'm a Marvel fan."

Originally posted by Daffid011

SOE took over running the matrix as part of a deal invovling the rights to a DC comics based mmo.

Yes the matrix was a mess when they got it, but they never really tried with this game either.  They pretty much killed the game as soon as they got it when they killed the story telling feature which was central to the game. 

Well you explain the entire situation pretty well actually.

What SOE did want was the rights to the DC MMO and they were told they had to take MxO to get it.  So it would seem rather obvious they were not going to put many resources into MxO... they never wanted it.

I'm not saying its right or wrong... its just something that should be obvious.  Everyone here also knows pretty much a game has one shot to get an audience (regardless of who makes it).  I know EvE had a rough launch and grew very well.. but what other MMO has ever done that?  If I remember right MxO was consolidated down to one(?) server during the transition to SOE.  That would reflect imo why even if they didn't mind running it... they wouldn't put resources into it.

Smedley has already stated in interviews that after ToR launches.. depending on how it affects SWG player base they may have to sunset that as well (you can google it.. think it was an interview with massive (massively) not sure on the name.  The one thing besides bad management both those MMO's have in common?  3rd party IP...

I'm not aware of them ever mentioning (yet) that they are watching any game they own entirely... in case they need to shut it down.  I'm not sure of any other major developer running more than one MMO that is pay to play.. who hasn't shut a game down that they owned.  (as opposed to companies that only operate one game). *edited part of this for clarification*

I was suprised that they sent an email out 2 days prior to officially ending support (game runs another month?).  When EA was going to shut down Earth and Beyond as an example I believe they gave around a 9 month notice (just again.. as an example).  I'm not sure how NCSoft handled the shut down of Auto Assault .. but they gave a multi month "warning" with Tabula Rasa.  I also have no idea on the situation AC2 had... 

I'd also like to point out that the title of the thread and then the OP just being the email about MxO... don't really tie in together.  The original poster makes absolutely no attempt to explain the point....

Ok they had never shut an MMO down... they are a for profit company... why would they run a game that is not making money.  So you either go with the title and claim they broke a promise...  or that some rep of the company said they would never shut down an MMO (which would be BS since Smedley had already talked about the chance SWG will have to be sunset) or something...   I'm not sure as it is.. what the title has to do with the OP... or where the statement is supposed to have come from... if it was something another mmorpg.com poster said once... Do they work for SOE? 

"The Matrix Online to shut down"  would go better with the OP.... without any attempt to make some point (valid or not).

Does this mean they will lower the cost of Station Access? lol

I completely forgot that SOE had Marvel.  That's gotta hurt the Marvel fans, tbh.

Sony will shut down any MMORPG that is losing money. However the definition of losing money might be a little different then what you expect. In business the past is virtually meaningless. Sony may have already lost a bundle on a particular title with huge development costs. That doesn't matter. What really matters is the subscription dollars coming in each month compared to the ongoing staffing costs and ISP costs. If they are breaking even or making a small profit each month then the game will continue. As few as 10,000 subscribers x $12.95 = $129,500 gross revenue each month which can cover a small staff and other costs.

A classic example of this is Funcom's Anarchy Online. It has been around forever and the subscriber base is a small fraction of its all time high. However it has a loyal following and is probably generating a profit each month. Thus it continues.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

I doubt if any sony mmo's  are losing money. What some do not understand is that in the world of business its not about making money vs. losing money its about making enough money to make it worth while vs. just getting by.  Why would SOE or any company want to squeak by or break even? Savvy business people know when its time to close up shop and again, savvy, folks do so before the loss not after.  SOE makes money, if it didnt it would not exist. Some games make more than others of course but at the end of the day they all pull their weight or they disappear.  Matrix is over but did it lose money for Sony?  Sorry to burst the bubble of the "Sony is failing" crowd but its the way it is.

Just because those mmos are up and running doesn't mean they are making money.  For example Sony corp is losing money hand over fist on playstation 3 consoles.  They lose money on every unit sold with the hopes that they will make money on game licenising.

This seems to be the same model as they are running their mmos.  Getting people to sign up for station pass by having a perceived value of access to numerous mmos.  Some of which I doubt make money and/or have been cutting expenses and staff to keep out of the red.  I doubt Mxo, Vanguard, SWG or Planetside on their own could produce anywhere close to the revenue to support a company if that were their only product and even sharing exspenses with the soe family I doubt they are profitable.  Maybe SWG, but only due to the card game which is a tree they are picking the fruit from far to often, but that is another discussion all together.

Frankly all of those games are as good as dead now with smedleys focus on changing soes revenue model to be primarily rmt based over the next few years.  Two years ago he wanted the 50% of their mmo revenue to come from real money transaction and over the next few years increase that number to 90%.  Combine that with the steady decline of all their current mmos and the future looks pretty ugly for the station pass. 

Soe doesn't just do mmos though and if freerealms/dcu and the agency don't pan out I bet you see soe depart from pd mmos all together and get redirected towards trying to improve the offerings of the ps3. 

Don't confuse the Playstation 3 sony with the SoE mmo sony.

totally different.

SoE makes money even though I hate them all!

Originally posted by BlackWatch

Does this mean they will lower the cost of Station Access? lol

I completely forgot that SOE had Marvel.  That's gotta hurt the Marvel fans, tbh.

SOE has DC, not marvel.  Cryptic had the license for marvel, but microsoft backed out and the project got scraped.  Mythic reworked the game with the champions online license.

I read somewhere that marvel had signed up with another company to give marvel online another shot, but I can't seem to recall where I read that.  So don't take my word for it.

Originally posted by Gravez

John Smedley: Great subscriber bases for EverQuest and EverQuest 2 and Galaxies, pretty much. I will tell you, I'm as surprised as anyone that the longevity of EverQuest. Our first spreadsheet had this thing running for about two years, and even that we thought was a little optimistic. Nine years later you go, "wow". There's still a large community there. As long as people pay us money and we love what we do, we'll keep running it.

http://www.massively.com/2008/01/14/a-ces-interview-with-soe-ceo-john-smedley-pt-2/

Maybe they didn't love the Matrix anymore.

Seems to me that quote is talking specifically about EQ.  Anyway, that quote does not equal "we'll never shut a MMO down".  Even if it did, we're talking about frickin Smedley here...SMEDLEY.  Does he have any credibility with anybody?  I have to admit it was refreshing to see an admission of the clusterfrack of NGE.  Of course, too little too late.

IMO the MMO market is over saturated.  There are probably a few other MMOs that could stand to be shutdown. 

Originally posted by JGMIII

Don't confuse the Playstation 3 sony with the SoE mmo sony.

totally different.

SoE makes money even though I hate them all!

Not different...they are both in the same division of Sony now.

Smedley is involved in both MMO and the PS3 department, as for PoTBS, FLS won't get far without the financial aid of SOE which is why they went to SOE for a deal. I even remember one of the head devs of FLS at one point saying "we'll never deal with SOE" then 2-3 months later, he actually defends SOE because of the potential $$$'s with the partnership.

As someone else said earlier, SOE's has a dirty marketing scheme, they want to squeeze in as money as they can with transations and TCG and it'll continue with DCU & other games in the future. Smedley may have a good money making management but a horrible long term quality game management.

Originally posted by sookster54

Smedley is involved in both MMO and the PS3 department, as for PoTBS, FLS won't get far without the financial aid of SOE which is why they went to SOE for a deal. I even remember one of the head devs of FLS at one point saying "we'll never deal with SOE" then 2-3 months later, he actually defends SOE because of the potential $$$'s with the partnership.

As someone else said earlier, SOE's has a dirty marketing scheme, they want to squeeze in as money as they can with transations and TCG and it'll continue with DCU & other games in the future. Smedley may have a good money making management but a horrible long term quality game management.

Good to see some one else finally saying some true words in this thread.  The SOE Games I've enjoyed (Planetside, SWG) Both have been destroyed in terms of what the community of "good players" wanted for good of the game.  Oh well, hopefully they make a Planetside 2 and don't screw it up, then I will forgive them. Until then, I just call them money hungry mongols.

Originally posted by NeokiNaomi

Originally posted by sookster54

Smedley is involved in both MMO and the PS3 department, as for PoTBS, FLS won't get far without the financial aid of SOE which is why they went to SOE for a deal. I even remember one of the head devs of FLS at one point saying "we'll never deal with SOE" then 2-3 months later, he actually defends SOE because of the potential $$$'s with the partnership.

As someone else said earlier, SOE's has a dirty marketing scheme, they want to squeeze in as money as they can with transations and TCG and it'll continue with DCU & other games in the future. Smedley may have a good money making management but a horrible long term quality game management.

 

Good to see some one else finally saying some true words in this thread.  The SOE Games I've enjoyed (Planetside, SWG) Both have been destroyed in terms of what the community of "good players" wanted for good of the game.  Oh well, hopefully they make a Planetside 2 and don't screw it up, then I will forgive them. Until then, I just call them money hungry mongols.

If they do Planeside 2 I promise you it will be loaded with just as much dirty marketing RMT schemes...

SOE is making money. No doubt in my mind anyway.

Even if it were losing money..the data mine that is the Station Pass games, is priceless.

Sony to shut down The Matrix Online MMO servers

Four years after The Matrix Online went live Sony has decided to stop supporting the MMO and will shut down the servers on July 31st.

The announcement was made via a community forum post by Sony Online Entertainment’s Daniel “Walrus” Myers. In it he said:

Now we’ve seen how far the rabbit hole goes and it’s time to wake up from that dream (or go back to sleep, depending how you look at it). On July 31, 2009, we will be jacking out for the last time. It’s a bittersweet moment for everyone involved with the game; as a player or as a developer.

It has been a good run. Where many games have fizzled out before or shortly after launch, by August we will have lived on in our home at SOE for more than 4 years. To this day, I have never worked with a community as dedicated as The Matrix Online community.

As did happen with Tabula Rasa Sony will be carrying out an end of world event for all remaining players. The post by Daniel went on to say:

The team will also be whipping up an end-of-the-world event. It won’t be quite the same as having over 100 developers in the game as Agents like when we ended beta, but we have 4 years of tricks up our sleeve. It’ll be a chance to revisit all the things that make MxO the memorable experience it is. And how could we pull the plug without crushing everyone’s RSI just one more time?

It looks like the team looking after The Matrix Online will likely make their way over to The Agency, but Sony has a number of MMOs on Station.com so I doubt anyone is going to be losing a job because of this.