Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Here's the way I see.

Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead.  Oh really?  People who decided to skip work and live on welfare to play a game are the heroes of the day and should be rewarded?  Is that the way you see it?

I don't care what they do outside of the game as I have no interaction with them and it is none of my business. They can skip work and live on welfare and play non-stop or they can work 80 hours a week and beat their kids before bed. All that matters is the interaction space, which is the game. So the idiots that don't play the game at all but have a fat wallet should be rewarded as the heroes of the day and be the best in game? Doesn't really make sense. All accomplishments in game should be earned in game. MMO's have the ability to be online virtual worlds, and shouldn't have direct impact from the real world.

The entire point of a game is to play it.  So go play it the way you want and stop commenting on how others play their game. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? Why even bother how others play their game?  Jealousy? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it. If the purpose of a game to you, is to play it, then play it and stop bickering about how others play their game.

Clearly you failed to read my comment below first...

And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you".  Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing.  So, all you want is uberness, e-peening.  You want games and societies in general to reward players who plays a game 24/7, and contributes to the society by beating everyone in the game, while drawing tax payers money so they can skip work and play 24/7?  No.  I pay a lot of tax, I do not want my money to feed the 24/7 gamers.

Yes, all power gamers are on welfare. Great logic chief. I don't know, seems to me like the person that is willing to pay real money to be uber, e-peen stroking in a game is the one that cares more about having the e-peen. Is the point of a game not to try and win? I shouldn't be upset when some jackass with too much money decides to buy his way to the top instead of earning his acheivments, and then defeats me in the game because of it? Sounds a bit backwards to me.

I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it. You have all the right to avoid RMT games, but this crusader on message boards, I smell jealous and e-peens.  Frankly spending a lot of time in games does not make you look bigger.  It might distort your sense of righteousness, so much so you think you DESERVE to own the only sword of the winning b/c you refuse to log off for a month.

 

If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play.  None of your business.

Hey man, if you want to just send me money I'll send you a certificate saying that you beat the game so that you never have to actually play it at all, you can just pay money and win. Sound good?

 

 

And if you'll sit in front of your computer for the next 34 hours while spamming your attack button repeatedly, you'll have earned a lovely little award.  It will be totally worth it, I promise.  Just do it.

Your right, I was the one making over-exaggerated arguments.

Nope, no exaggeration.  Just do it, and you'll get the reward.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Here's the way I see.

Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead.  Oh really?  People who decided to skip work and live on welfare to play a game are the heroes of the day and should be rewarded?  Is that the way you see it?

I don't care what they do outside of the game as I have no interaction with them and it is none of my business. They can skip work and live on welfare and play non-stop or they can work 80 hours a week and beat their kids before bed. All that matters is the interaction space, which is the game. So the idiots that don't play the game at all but have a fat wallet should be rewarded as the heroes of the day and be the best in game? Doesn't really make sense. All accomplishments in game should be earned in game. MMO's have the ability to be online virtual worlds, and shouldn't have direct impact from the real world.

The entire point of a game is to play it.  So go play it the way you want and stop commenting on how others play their game. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? Why even bother how others play their game?  Jealousy? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it. If the purpose of a game to you, is to play it, then play it and stop bickering about how others play their game.

Clearly you failed to read my comment below first...

And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you".  Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing.  So, all you want is uberness, e-peening.  You want games and societies in general to reward players who plays a game 24/7, and contributes to the society by beating everyone in the game, while drawing tax payers money so they can skip work and play 24/7?  No.  I pay a lot of tax, I do not want my money to feed the 24/7 gamers.

Yes, all power gamers are on welfare. Great logic chief. I don't know, seems to me like the person that is willing to pay real money to be uber, e-peen stroking in a game is the one that cares more about having the e-peen. Is the point of a game not to try and win? I shouldn't be upset when some jackass with too much money decides to buy his way to the top instead of earning his acheivments, and then defeats me in the game because of it? Sounds a bit backwards to me.

I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it. You have all the right to avoid RMT games, but this crusader on message boards, I smell jealous and e-peens.  Frankly spending a lot of time in games does not make you look bigger.  It might distort your sense of righteousness, so much so you think you DESERVE to own the only sword of the winning b/c you refuse to log off for a month.

 

If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play.  None of your business.

Hey man, if you want to just send me money I'll send you a certificate saying that you beat the game so that you never have to actually play it at all, you can just pay money and win. Sound good?

 

 

And if you'll sit in front of your computer for the next 34 hours while spamming your attack button repeatedly, you'll have earned a lovely little award.  It will be totally worth it, I promise.  Just do it.

Your right, I was the one making over-exaggerated arguments.

 

Nope, no exaggeration.  Just do it, and you'll get the reward.

Ok, spend $300 for your insta-IWIN button, it will be totally worth it and the reward of "Earning" it will make you feel great.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Here's the way I see.

Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead.  Oh really?  People who decided to skip work and live on welfare to play a game are the heroes of the day and should be rewarded?  Is that the way you see it?

I don't care what they do outside of the game as I have no interaction with them and it is none of my business. They can skip work and live on welfare and play non-stop or they can work 80 hours a week and beat their kids before bed. All that matters is the interaction space, which is the game. So the idiots that don't play the game at all but have a fat wallet should be rewarded as the heroes of the day and be the best in game? Doesn't really make sense. All accomplishments in game should be earned in game. MMO's have the ability to be online virtual worlds, and shouldn't have direct impact from the real world.

You do not care, I do.  Why should I advocate supporting those who are lazy and leeching my tax money?

The entire point of a game is to play it.  So go play it the way you want and stop commenting on how others play their game. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? Why even bother how others play their game?  Jealousy? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it. If the purpose of a game to you, is to play it, then play it and stop bickering about how others play their game.

Clearly you failed to read my comment below first...

No, you failed to reply to my most basic premise.  Go play your game and shut up.  I do not feel the need to start world war 2 on a forum over the way others play their game.  A game.

And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you".  Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing.  So, all you want is uberness, e-peening.  You want games and societies in general to reward players who plays a game 24/7, and contributes to the society by beating everyone in the game, while drawing tax payers money so they can skip work and play 24/7?  No.  I pay a lot of tax, I do not want my money to feed the 24/7 gamers.

Yes, all power gamers are on welfare. Great logic chief. I don't know, seems to me like the person that is willing to pay real money to be uber, e-peen stroking in a game is the one that cares more about having the e-peen. Is the point of a game not to try and win? I shouldn't be upset when some jackass with too much money decides to buy his way to the top instead of earning his acheivments, and then defeats me in the game because of it? Sounds a bit backwards to me.

No, the purpose of a game is the purpose of the one playing.  You play to win, I play to relax, my friend play to socialise.  You take winning in a game too seriously, in my views.  I do not care how they play or what other players got as gear or whatever.  I do not worry about e-peens like you do.

As for how many are on welfare, your guess is as good as mine.  One of my projects two and a half years ago, is for a certain gov't agency assessing the profile of gamers.  You do not want to know how many gamers "cheat" life to play, and how ingenious they are.  Unfortunately, its a classified report, I cannot share.  It does influence the way I look at many uber gamers, who is online 24/7.  One of the way we did, we /who and take a sample of those online, we keep /who every hour 24/7 for months.  It gives very interesting findings.  We proceed to chat them up, join their guild, track their web posting and draw up profiles.  The findings caused a heart attack for some gov't officials.

I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it. You have all the right to avoid RMT games, but this crusader on message boards, I smell jealous and e-peens.  Frankly spending a lot of time in games does not make you look bigger.  It might distort your sense of righteousness, so much so you think you DESERVE to own the only sword of the winning b/c you refuse to log off for a month.

 

If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play.  None of your business.

Hey man, if you want to just send me money I'll send you a certificate saying that you beat the game so that you never have to actually play it at all, you can just pay money and win. Sound good?

 

Now you are putting up an incomplete business offer, and I have no way of assessing it.

First I am not going to send you money b/c I love you, it is your turn to show me what you have for sale. A certificate that tells me I have beaten the game? From you? What does that contributes to me? If you are offering me a free ride to a lovely scene, or a free month stay in a holiday resort I love, as a result of that cerificate, tell me your price. If your certificate is a well designed document and only cost 50 cents, no harm buying it, just to see how well your design skills are. Give me more details.

If you need to mock me in order to carry on your anti-RMT crusade, feel free. I am too "thick skinned" to worry about it. My daily job has me facing many begging vendors, using every trick to move or influence my decisions. This mocking trick can't induce a laugh.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

 

Ok, spend $300 for your insta-IWIN button, it will be totally worth it and the reward of "Earning" it will make you feel great.

First you are exaggerating and grossly misleading.  RMT =/= instant I win buttons.  Each game has its own RMT (if any) which is implemented differently.  There is no I win button in a MMO, as it never ends.

Second, RMT that helps skips part of the game is not a crime, whether you like it or not is the issue.  You like to play everything out, cool.  Do it.  If Mr X want to skip travelling, I can ask a mage to port him, buy a game item to allow him to port once, or RMT a porting item so he can port once or multiple times. You want to walk? fine.  Not everyone does, not for every occasion.

One of the officers of my guild in an ex-game, has his account hacked, and the game GM refused to revert his deleted maxed character.  He was the guild class leader and very experienced in leading raids, he was the main tank.  So he has two choices, relevel a max character from scratch, or buy an account with a maxed level tank and go from there.  He decided to buy it, and I do not see how it affects the gameplay.  Now this is an example where RMT does not necessarily mean a sin.

Not all RMT transactions are glorious feats, not all are sinister crimes that should be punishable by death.  Stop bashing with one sweeping statement.  Can we try to delineate where the blur line of tolerance can be placed?

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Here's the way I see.

Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead.  Oh really?  People who decided to skip work and live on welfare to play a game are the heroes of the day and should be rewarded?  Is that the way you see it?

I don't care what they do outside of the game as I have no interaction with them and it is none of my business. They can skip work and live on welfare and play non-stop or they can work 80 hours a week and beat their kids before bed. All that matters is the interaction space, which is the game. So the idiots that don't play the game at all but have a fat wallet should be rewarded as the heroes of the day and be the best in game? Doesn't really make sense. All accomplishments in game should be earned in game. MMO's have the ability to be online virtual worlds, and shouldn't have direct impact from the real world.

You do not care, I do.  Why should I advocate supporting those who are lazy and leeching my tax money?

The entire point of a game is to play it.  So go play it the way you want and stop commenting on how others play their game. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? Why even bother how others play their game?  Jealousy? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it. If the purpose of a game to you, is to play it, then play it and stop bickering about how others play their game.

Clearly you failed to read my comment below first...

No, you failed to reply to my most basic premise.  Go play your game and shut up.  I do not feel the need to start world war 2 on a forum over the way others play their game.  A game.

And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you".  Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing.  So, all you want is uberness, e-peening.  You want games and societies in general to reward players who plays a game 24/7, and contributes to the society by beating everyone in the game, while drawing tax payers money so they can skip work and play 24/7?  No.  I pay a lot of tax, I do not want my money to feed the 24/7 gamers.

Yes, all power gamers are on welfare. Great logic chief. I don't know, seems to me like the person that is willing to pay real money to be uber, e-peen stroking in a game is the one that cares more about having the e-peen. Is the point of a game not to try and win? I shouldn't be upset when some jackass with too much money decides to buy his way to the top instead of earning his acheivments, and then defeats me in the game because of it? Sounds a bit backwards to me.

No, the purpose of a game is the purpose of the one playing.  You play to win, I play to relax, my friend play to socialise.  You take winning in a game too seriously, in my views.  I do not care how they play or what other players got as gear or whatever.  I do not worry about e-peens like you do.

As for how many are on welfare, your guess is as good as mine.  One of my projects two and a half years ago, is for a certain gov't agency assessing the profile of gamers.  You do not want to know how many gamers "cheat" life to play, and how ingenious they are.  Unfortunately, its a classified report, I cannot share.  It does influence the way I look at many uber gamers, who is online 24/7.  One of the way we did, we /who and take a sample of those online, we keep /who every hour 24/7 for months.  It gives very interesting findings.  We proceed to chat them up, join their guild, track their web posting and draw up profiles.  The findings caused a heart attack for some gov't officials.

I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it. You have all the right to avoid RMT games, but this crusader on message boards, I smell jealous and e-peens.  Frankly spending a lot of time in games does not make you look bigger.  It might distort your sense of righteousness, so much so you think you DESERVE to own the only sword of the winning b/c you refuse to log off for a month.

 

If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play.  None of your business.

Hey man, if you want to just send me money I'll send you a certificate saying that you beat the game so that you never have to actually play it at all, you can just pay money and win. Sound good?

 

 

Now you are putting up an incomplete business offer, and I have no way of assessing it.

First I am not going to send you money b/c I love you, it is your turn to show me what you have for sale. A certificate that tells me I have beaten the game? From you? What does that contributes to me? If you are offering me a free ride to a lovely scene, or a free month stay in a holiday resort I love, as a result of that cerificate, tell me your price. If your certificate is a well designed document and only cost 50 cents, no harm buying it, just to see how well your design skills are. Give me more details.

If you need to mock me in order to carry on your anti-RMT crusade, feel free. I am too "thick skinned" to worry about it. My daily job has me facing many begging vendors, using every trick to move or influence my decisions. This mocking trick can't induce a laugh.

 

LOL I mean honestly, come on. The "leaching my tax money" argument is a bit ridiculous. Most power gamers are probably not in the position to work anyways, students, kids, disabled, whatever. The majority of gamers I have played with either worked all day and played at night, or were students and played when they didn't have class.

If you find satisfaction in paying real world money to be good in a video game, by all means go do it. I'll never play a game that provides that opportunity. I pay to play, not pay to win. I think it's really sad that gaming, and "gamers", have come to this. Willing to pay money so that they DON'T have to play the game. Sad.

The thread is about time being ubalancing in an MMO, and the truth is it isn't any more unbalancing than it is in any other part of life. The guy that practices a lot will probably have an advantage over the guy that doesn't. The guy that works more hours will make more money than his co-worker. The guy that gives more effort will achieve more. It is the same in life as it is in MMORPGs, so it isn't a valid argument. The guy who decides to dedicate his life to playing a game is going to be better off in that game, but the person who plays a little and works a lot is going to be better off in life. It's all about priorties.

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

 

Ok, spend $300 for your insta-IWIN button, it will be totally worth it and the reward of "Earning" it will make you feel great.

 

First you are exaggerating and grossly misleading.  RMT =/= instant I win buttons.  Each game has its own RMT (if any) which is implemented differently.  There is no I win button in a MMO, as it never ends.

Second, RMT that helps skips part of the game is not a crime, whether you like it or not is the issue.  You like to play everything out, cool.  Do it.  If Mr X want to skip travelling, I can ask a mage to port him, buy a game item to allow him to port once, or RMT a porting item so he can port once or multiple times. You want to walk? fine.  Not everyone does, not for every occasion.

One of the officers of my guild in an ex-game, has his account hacked, and the game GM refused to revert his deleted maxed character.  He was the guild class leader and very experienced in leading raids, he was the main tank.  So he has two choices, relevel a max character from scratch, or buy an account with a maxed level tank and go from there.  He decided to buy it, and I do not see how it affects the gameplay.  Now this is an example where RMT does not necessarily mean a sin.

Not all RMT transactions are glorious feats, not all are sinister crimes that should be punishable by death.  Stop bashing with one sweeping statement.  Can we try to delineate where the blur line of tolerance can be placed?

My entire point of that post was to grossly exaggerate and mislead because that was what the poster above me was doing. I was mocking him.

Oh, and if I was that person, first I would feel really dumb for getting hacked. Second, I wouldn't be playing that game any more as I would not want to pay more money to a company with such shoddy customer service.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Here's the way I see.

Time is not an unbalancing factor because that is time that they are actually PLAYING the game. They played the game for that amount of time, put in the effort, and received the awards. RMT is not time spent playing the game, but simply buying that playtime instead.  Oh really?  People who decided to skip work and live on welfare to play a game are the heroes of the day and should be rewarded?  Is that the way you see it?

I don't care what they do outside of the game as I have no interaction with them and it is none of my business. They can skip work and live on welfare and play non-stop or they can work 80 hours a week and beat their kids before bed. All that matters is the interaction space, which is the game. So the idiots that don't play the game at all but have a fat wallet should be rewarded as the heroes of the day and be the best in game? Doesn't really make sense. All accomplishments in game should be earned in game. MMO's have the ability to be online virtual worlds, and shouldn't have direct impact from the real world.

You do not care, I do.  Why should I advocate supporting those who are lazy and leeching my tax money?

The entire point of a game is to play it.  So go play it the way you want and stop commenting on how others play their game. Why even bother if you are just going to buy your way to the top? Why even bother how others play their game?  Jealousy? What will be next, paying for a certificate that says you beat the game, so you don't have to play it at all? RMT completely defeats the purpose of a game, and that is to PLAY it. If the purpose of a game to you, is to play it, then play it and stop bickering about how others play their game.

Clearly you failed to read my comment below first...

No, you failed to reply to my most basic premise.  Go play your game and shut up.  I do not feel the need to start world war 2 on a forum over the way others play their game.  A game.

And I know, "What do you care if some other guy bought a weapon while you earned it by playing the game, it doesn't effect you".  Well, lets say I have the mediocre sword of pwnage because I haven't yet achieved anything better, but Joe Blow just bought an Uber sword of pwnage in the item shop, and we meet in the battlefield and I get my ass handed to me? Seems that players usage of RMT has directly effected my playing.  So, all you want is uberness, e-peening.  You want games and societies in general to reward players who plays a game 24/7, and contributes to the society by beating everyone in the game, while drawing tax payers money so they can skip work and play 24/7?  No.  I pay a lot of tax, I do not want my money to feed the 24/7 gamers.

Yes, all power gamers are on welfare. Great logic chief. I don't know, seems to me like the person that is willing to pay real money to be uber, e-peen stroking in a game is the one that cares more about having the e-peen. Is the point of a game not to try and win? I shouldn't be upset when some jackass with too much money decides to buy his way to the top instead of earning his acheivments, and then defeats me in the game because of it? Sounds a bit backwards to me.

No, the purpose of a game is the purpose of the one playing.  You play to win, I play to relax, my friend play to socialise.  You take winning in a game too seriously, in my views.  I do not care how they play or what other players got as gear or whatever.  I do not worry about e-peens like you do.

As for how many are on welfare, your guess is as good as mine.  One of my projects two and a half years ago, is for a certain gov't agency assessing the profile of gamers.  You do not want to know how many gamers "cheat" life to play, and how ingenious they are.  Unfortunately, its a classified report, I cannot share.  It does influence the way I look at many uber gamers, who is online 24/7.  One of the way we did, we /who and take a sample of those online, we keep /who every hour 24/7 for months.  It gives very interesting findings.  We proceed to chat them up, join their guild, track their web posting and draw up profiles.  The findings caused a heart attack for some gov't officials.

I am completely 100% against any form of RMT, and I refuse to play any game that incorporates it. You have all the right to avoid RMT games, but this crusader on message boards, I smell jealous and e-peens.  Frankly spending a lot of time in games does not make you look bigger.  It might distort your sense of righteousness, so much so you think you DESERVE to own the only sword of the winning b/c you refuse to log off for a month.

 

If you want to play, go play, and stop telling us how we should play.  None of your business.

Hey man, if you want to just send me money I'll send you a certificate saying that you beat the game so that you never have to actually play it at all, you can just pay money and win. Sound good?

 

 

Now you are putting up an incomplete business offer, and I have no way of assessing it.

First I am not going to send you money b/c I love you, it is your turn to show me what you have for sale. A certificate that tells me I have beaten the game? From you? What does that contributes to me? If you are offering me a free ride to a lovely scene, or a free month stay in a holiday resort I love, as a result of that cerificate, tell me your price. If your certificate is a well designed document and only cost 50 cents, no harm buying it, just to see how well your design skills are. Give me more details.

If you need to mock me in order to carry on your anti-RMT crusade, feel free. I am too "thick skinned" to worry about it. My daily job has me facing many begging vendors, using every trick to move or influence my decisions. This mocking trick can't induce a laugh.

 

 

LOL I mean honestly, come on. The "leaching my tax money" argument is a bit ridiculous. Most power gamers are probably not in the position to work anyways, students, kids, disabled, whatever. The majority of gamers I have played with either worked all day and played at night, or were students and played when they didn't have class.   That is your guess, that is not the results of my research 2.5 years ago.  Sorry, your guess my view.

If you find satisfaction in paying real world money to be good in a video game, by all means go do it. I'll never play a game that provides that opportunity. I pay to play, not pay to win. I think it's really sad that gaming, and "gamers", have come to this. Willing to pay money so that they DON'T have to play the game. Sad.  You insist on sweeping statements on all RMT without examining what it does in each game, np, your decision.  I do not care, as you simply do not provide any ground for discussion apart from a near religious zeal.

The thread is about time being ubalancing in an MMO, and the truth is it isn't any more unbalancing than it is in any other part of life. The guy that practices a lot will probably have an advantage over the guy that doesn't. The guy that works more hours will make more money than his co-worker. The guy that gives more effort will achieve more. It is the same in life as it is in MMORPGs, so it isn't a valid argument. The guy who decides to dedicate his life to playing a game is going to be better off in that game, but the person who plays a little and works a lot is going to be better off in life. It's all about priorties.  There is no truth, its just a view.  I do not sense imbalance, as there is no balancing, just a game.  The guy who dedicated his life to game is juat another guy, and whether the game need to reward him with extra e-peens is another business.  You can devote your life to bugging your governor, does the president need to reward you?  Good luck.

Come to think of it, almost your entire crusade is based on faith, zeal and wild guess.  No statistics, no nothing.  The ground for discussion is shinking, as you just amounts to say "I HATE RMT, PERIOD".

All your claims about fairness, about how a game should be is purely your view, and your attempt to push it down my throat is very disturbing.  Sorry I do not share your view about fairness (24/7 players do not deserve more).  I do not see why you need to worry about who plays with RMT or not, just go play your game and leave the other alone.  Most important of all, do not try to tell us that your views on a game is the absolute truth.  It is not, its is just your personal view.  It is not written in the constitution.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

 

Ok, spend $300 for your insta-IWIN button, it will be totally worth it and the reward of "Earning" it will make you feel great.

 

First you are exaggerating and grossly misleading.  RMT =/= instant I win buttons.  Each game has its own RMT (if any) which is implemented differently.  There is no I win button in a MMO, as it never ends.

Second, RMT that helps skips part of the game is not a crime, whether you like it or not is the issue.  You like to play everything out, cool.  Do it.  If Mr X want to skip travelling, I can ask a mage to port him, buy a game item to allow him to port once, or RMT a porting item so he can port once or multiple times. You want to walk? fine.  Not everyone does, not for every occasion.

One of the officers of my guild in an ex-game, has his account hacked, and the game GM refused to revert his deleted maxed character.  He was the guild class leader and very experienced in leading raids, he was the main tank.  So he has two choices, relevel a max character from scratch, or buy an account with a maxed level tank and go from there.  He decided to buy it, and I do not see how it affects the gameplay.  Now this is an example where RMT does not necessarily mean a sin.

Not all RMT transactions are glorious feats, not all are sinister crimes that should be punishable by death.  Stop bashing with one sweeping statement.  Can we try to delineate where the blur line of tolerance can be placed?

 

My entire point of that post was to grossly exaggerate and mislead because that was what the poster above me was doing. I was mocking him.

Oh, and if I was that person, first I would feel really dumb for getting hacked. Second, I wouldn't be playing that game any more as I would not want to pay more money to a company with such shoddy customer service.

You feel dumb for being hacked?  For christ sake, even the pentagon has been hacked, many times.  You feel that the pentagon system security experts are dumb?

That he was hacked has nothing to do with the game service provider.  Hmm, you got any idea how hackers operate?

Now I begin to wonder, do you really know about game security and hacks, before putting up that big sentence?  As in all your fanatic crusade, you just throw out your "invincible view" before having an understanding of the issues involved?

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Waterlily

Time and money are both unbalancing. However they are plentiful and everyone has the ability to have them in one way or another.

Take those 2 away and you will start to devide players just by skill. I would love to have more games like that, but don't forget that you're excluding a huge amount of players like this.

Take FPS, UT servers used to be crowded when the game launched, 2 months later most had left because they were unable to compete. This same scenario would happen if you take away time, although a lot of MMO should be way more about skill than playtime. Now it's 99% playtime and 1% skill.

 

I very much agree. I don't think time/RMT would even be an issue if games stopped putting so much emphasis on gear, and made it more about player skill.

But, even if a game relied on player skill more than anything else, the player that spends a ton of time playing will most likely be a lot better because they have practiced more, while the RMTer will not be able to compete because they haven't put the time in practicing, and then they will be extra upset because they can't buy skill in the cash shop. That would be an ok situation in my book.

That is what I don't get. People will continue to play games with gameplay styles they don't enjoy. If I didn't like a gameplay style and felt like I needed to buy my way through any of it then I would play something else. If people wouldn't play games with these features they don't like instead of purchasing virtual items, more games would be made with the gameplay people do enjoy.

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Waterlily

Time and money are both unbalancing. However they are plentiful and everyone has the ability to have them in one way or another.

Take those 2 away and you will start to devide players just by skill. I would love to have more games like that, but don't forget that you're excluding a huge amount of players like this.

Take FPS, UT servers used to be crowded when the game launched, 2 months later most had left because they were unable to compete. This same scenario would happen if you take away time, although a lot of MMO should be way more about skill than playtime. Now it's 99% playtime and 1% skill.

 

I very much agree. I don't think time/RMT would even be an issue if games stopped putting so much emphasis on gear, and made it more about player skill.

But, even if a game relied on player skill more than anything else, the player that spends a ton of time playing will most likely be a lot better because they have practiced more, while the RMTer will not be able to compete because they haven't put the time in practicing, and then they will be extra upset because they can't buy skill in the cash shop. That would be an ok situation in my book.

 

That is what I don't get. People will continue to play games with gameplay styles they don't enjoy. If I didn't like a gameplay style and felt like I needed to buy my way through any of it then I would play something else. If people wouldn't play games with these features they don't like instead of purchasing virtual items, more games would be made with the gameplay people do enjoy.

That is too subjective an assessment.  You do not know as a "fact", that the guy /RMT is not enjoying the game.  Fact is, from the standard approach of behavioural science, this Mr S has demonstrated preference to play a game thru paying for some extra elements in the game.  Of course, we need to know what he paid for and the impact of the /RMT to draw a more solid conclusion.  I do feel that you have drawn a conclusion just a tad too early.

Originally posted by madeux

I think players should only be able to buy the same items that other players can earn through time.  The only advantage they are truly paying for is saving them the time it would take to grind for it.  This balances things between the players with no lives that can spend 10 hours a day, and the players who have school, work, and family and can't give that much time.

If I've got the same gear you have, what should it really matter to you how I got it?  Worry about yourself, play the game the way that gives you the most enjoyment, and let everyone else do the same thing.

 

 

This system would be good. Why should it matter if someone spent time or money to get the same thing so they should have FUN. Keyword there not everyone's idea of fun is grinding of rhours on end if they have a busy life with family and work and can just squeeze in a hour or so. Why should they be forced to lag behind?

Announcing a new MMO:

Age of Credit Cards!
<sound of classical music big epic opener>

Features:
We have taken away all that tiresome grinding and gone straight to your pocket! You don’t play, you pay!
Lord it over the noobs with your credit card mastery; shock with your extortionately priced uber weapon, awe with your gloriously glowing expensive armour, amaze with your rapid (paid for) levelling.

Media:
Video 1: using the cash shop.
Video 2: excuses to use on your parents for the bill.
Video 3: excuses to use on your wife for the bill.

I just cannot see how anyone can seriously advocate RMT’s in MMO’s, this is how that fiscal model seems to me, a total joke. :)

 After reading the posts thats what i think on this subject:

I played many MMOPRGS, spent more time on some and less on others, i can understand the expectations of both sides, because i was a hardcore gamer before and for the last 10 years, i cant find as much time to play MMORPGS as i had before.

The people who have a limited time to play games just want to have an alternative to compensate the time gap between them and the hardcore gamers, so that they can enjoy the end game too, thats very much understandable. On the other side, hardcore gamers dont want a newcomer to achieve (actually BUY) everything in a short period, for which day spent countless hours, thats again very much understandable.

The problem here is the balance issue. MMORPGs are not individual single player games, those games are very much dependant on the society and someone BUYing his/her way from bottom to the top seems UNFAIR for most of the society. 

I read some people claiming that they dont have so much time to spend on a game since they are working hard and paying taxes so since they also want to enjoy the end game, they use money to speed the process. But, have you ever thought, how many of the hard working, tax paying players actually have the money to throw at a game??? And actually how many of not working, not tax paying spoiled wellfare guys are throwing money at a game??? 

Probably the later guys are paying a lot more than the previous ones. Does that compansate your claims?

What I actually think that is right is, providing some more compensation for the time to time players which some of the MMORPGs out there is already doing, like giving EXP boosts to players depending on their registered times but not playing times. So that players entering the game time to time will earn more EXP during that time, and for the hardcore gamers, when their EXP boosts are gone, they can still level, but at a slower rate...

And, about buying again,dont forget that most of the players are playing MMORPGs because there is a society in it, they love to achieve victories in there, they love to be important for others, they love to be recognized in there, the things which they mostly fail or frusturated about,  in the real life. So, BUYING THE WAY TO THE TOP as in real life, makes those games not much different than real life, which ruins the reason to play.

Just think, A president is elected by the voters, by the society. That means a loong way of hard work, too much time spent to achieve and suddenly there is an option to BUY PRESIDENCY and some guy with the money buys it and becomes the PRESIDENT, issuing statements that will probably ruin the way you live your life, would you like to live in such a society???

(Well, giving some more thought, we are probably already living in such a society considering the money spent during last elections :) )

If time is a concern for you, go play Eve.  Time matters little in that game.  It would be easy to make a fantasy game using the same concepts dropping levels and grinding for a skill based game.

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

LOL I mean honestly, come on. The "leaching my tax money" argument is a bit ridiculous. Most power gamers are probably not in the position to work anyways, students, kids, disabled, whatever. The majority of gamers I have played with either worked all day and played at night, or were students and played when they didn't have class.   That is your guess, that is not the results of my research 2.5 years ago.  Sorry, your guess my view.

What guess? No guessing involved, that is what the VAST majority of all of the gamers I've ever had the opportunity to play with are. Not a guess, experience.

If you find satisfaction in paying real world money to be good in a video game, by all means go do it. I'll never play a game that provides that opportunity. I pay to play, not pay to win. I think it's really sad that gaming, and "gamers", have come to this. Willing to pay money so that they DON'T have to play the game. Sad.  You insist on sweeping statements on all RMT without examining what it does in each game, np, your decision.  I do not care, as you simply do not provide any ground for discussion apart from a near religious zeal.

Because any form of RMT that provides an ingame advantage is exactly what I just described. If the RMT is just fluff(Really fluff, as in absolutely no advantage in game at all, no xp potions, no teleportations, nothing other than a pretty hat or something) and the items are also available by in game means, won't care much. If it provides an in game advantage, no thianks.

The thread is about time being ubalancing in an MMO, and the truth is it isn't any more unbalancing than it is in any other part of life. The guy that practices a lot will probably have an advantage over the guy that doesn't. The guy that works more hours will make more money than his co-worker. The guy that gives more effort will achieve more. It is the same in life as it is in MMORPGs, so it isn't a valid argument. The guy who decides to dedicate his life to playing a game is going to be better off in that game, but the person who plays a little and works a lot is going to be better off in life. It's all about priorties.  There is no truth, its just a view.  I do not sense imbalance, as there is no balancing, just a game.  The guy who dedicated his life to game is juat another guy, and whether the game need to reward him with extra e-peens is another business.  You can devote your life to bugging your governor, does the president need to reward you?  Good luck.

Was that even a counter-arguments? Terrible, you didn't address my point at all.

 

Come to think of it, almost your entire crusade is based on faith, zeal and wild guess.  No statistics, no nothing.  The ground for discussion is shinking, as you just amounts to say "I HATE RMT, PERIOD".

All your claims about fairness, about how a game should be is purely your view, and your attempt to push it down my throat is very disturbing.  Sorry I do not share your view about fairness (24/7 players do not deserve more).  I do not see why you need to worry about who plays with RMT or not, just go play your game and leave the other alone.  Most important of all, do not try to tell us that your views on a game is the absolute truth.  It is not, its is just your personal view.  It is not written in the constitution.

Come to think of it, your entire crusade for RMT is based on some "research" which you can't share with anyone but we are supposed to magically believe that you did, that the results you found were accurate, and that you are accurately sharing those results unbiasly, without any proof at all. I'll believe my own experiences over you any day, sorry.

And, once again, I have already explained how RMT can effect me. Is this really that hard? Honestly.

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Abrahmm

 

Ok, spend $300 for your insta-IWIN button, it will be totally worth it and the reward of "Earning" it will make you feel great.

 

First you are exaggerating and grossly misleading.  RMT =/= instant I win buttons.  Each game has its own RMT (if any) which is implemented differently.  There is no I win button in a MMO, as it never ends.

Second, RMT that helps skips part of the game is not a crime, whether you like it or not is the issue.  You like to play everything out, cool.  Do it.  If Mr X want to skip travelling, I can ask a mage to port him, buy a game item to allow him to port once, or RMT a porting item so he can port once or multiple times. You want to walk? fine.  Not everyone does, not for every occasion.

One of the officers of my guild in an ex-game, has his account hacked, and the game GM refused to revert his deleted maxed character.  He was the guild class leader and very experienced in leading raids, he was the main tank.  So he has two choices, relevel a max character from scratch, or buy an account with a maxed level tank and go from there.  He decided to buy it, and I do not see how it affects the gameplay.  Now this is an example where RMT does not necessarily mean a sin.

Not all RMT transactions are glorious feats, not all are sinister crimes that should be punishable by death.  Stop bashing with one sweeping statement.  Can we try to delineate where the blur line of tolerance can be placed?

 

My entire point of that post was to grossly exaggerate and mislead because that was what the poster above me was doing. I was mocking him.

Oh, and if I was that person, first I would feel really dumb for getting hacked. Second, I wouldn't be playing that game any more as I would not want to pay more money to a company with such shoddy customer service.

 

You feel dumb for being hacked?  For christ sake, even the pentagon has been hacked, many times.  You feel that the pentagon system security experts are dumb?

That he was hacked has nothing to do with the game service provider.  Hmm, you got any idea how hackers operate?

Now I begin to wonder, do you really know about game security and hacks, before putting up that big sentence?  As in all your fanatic crusade, you just throw out your "invincible view" before having an understanding of the issues involved?

LOL you wonder what I know? Do you understand the difference between someone intentionally targetting and attacking you (ex. The Pentagon) and  some nobody picking up a keylogger? There is a HUGE difference. I wouldn't feel stupid if someone intentionally attacked me and got through. I would feel stupid for picking up a key logger. Understand that before you try to lecture me about things you clearly know nothing about.

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by madeux

I think players should only be able to buy the same items that other players can earn through time.  The only advantage they are truly paying for is saving them the time it would take to grind for it.  This balances things between the players with no lives that can spend 10 hours a day, and the players who have school, work, and family and can't give that much time.

If I've got the same gear you have, what should it really matter to you how I got it?  Worry about yourself, play the game the way that gives you the most enjoyment, and let everyone else do the same thing.

 

 

 

There is more than this difference. You fundamentally change the game, and make the effort involved to get the same item worthless.

In other words, I can ONLY do a quest for an item, or grind for an Item. OR I can pay five bucks for it. I have five bucks. This means the quest is now worthless to me, and it would feel stupid doing it when I can pay five bucks. Now I don't want to play.

That is completely different from a game where EVERYONE must work for the item, no exceptions. That's a game I want to play.

This is the hardest part for people to understand:

I"m not worried YOU can buy items, I don't want the game to let ME buy items. Telling me "just don't buy it' doesn't work.

Here is where I would like to see a little more honesty.  See if an item is worth grinding X hours for then is it worth the X hours grind even if you can otherwise pay for it.  That is if that line of thinking is directly honest.  What goes unmentioned and is likely the real reason is that if you can only grind it, the real worth is the epeen factor.  I just wish once in this debate someone would just come out and admit that fancy item is worth grinding for the epeen factor.
 

I don't want the item. I want the game to require me to do the content. Items are often just a bench mark for completed content.

Do this quest, get this item. Some people do indeed just want the item, and want to show it off. I want to do the quest, or grind the mobs, and not be able to bypass this process.

Get rid of the item altogether. Let's say there is no sword, no gear. Then I don't want the game to let ME buy xp, xp potions, pets, powers, or anything else.

If I wanted an item for the "epeen" factor, then it wouldn't make any difference if I bought it with RMT, or actually did the content. Either way, I'd have the item, and my "epeen".

Originally posted by Scot

Announcing a new MMO:

Age of Credit Cards!
<sound of classical music big epic opener>

Features:
We have taken away all that tiresome grinding and gone straight to your pocket! You don’t play, you pay!
Lord it over the noobs with your credit card mastery; shock with your extortionately priced uber weapon, awe with your gloriously glowing expensive armour, amaze with your rapid (paid for) levelling.

Media:
Video 1: using the cash shop.
Video 2: excuses to use on your parents for the bill.
Video 3: excuses to use on your wife for the bill.

 

 

I just cannot see how anyone can seriously advocate RMP’s in MMO’s, this is how that fiscal model seems to me, a total joke. :)

Man you are Awsome!
 

I laughed so hard when I read this to bad that the lobbiest are running rampant on these forums trying to push thiere SCAMS on people. I do not Understand why people suport these kinds of games. But my guess is 90% of them work for RMT companies themselfs....

Originally posted by Scot

Announcing a new MMO:

Age of Credit Cards!
<sound of classical music big epic opener>

Features:
We have taken away all that tiresome grinding and gone straight to your pocket! You don’t play, you pay!
Lord it over the noobs with your credit card mastery; shock with your extortionately priced uber weapon, awe with your gloriously glowing expensive armour, amaze with your rapid (paid for) levelling.

Media:
Video 1: using the cash shop.
Video 2: excuses to use on your parents for the bill.
Video 3: excuses to use on your wife for the bill.

 

 

I just cannot see how anyone can seriously advocate RMP’s in MMO’s, this is how that fiscal model seems to me, a total joke. :)

Scot, we need to get this going and copyrighted! We'll make a fortune off the RMT loving idio....er, customers AND keep them out of everyone else game. It's a win-win!

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Scot

Announcing a new MMO:

Age of Credit Cards!
<sound of classical music big epic opener>

Features:
We have taken away all that tiresome grinding and gone straight to your pocket! You don’t play, you pay!
Lord it over the noobs with your credit card mastery; shock with your extortionately priced uber weapon, awe with your gloriously glowing expensive armour, amaze with your rapid (paid for) levelling.

Media:
Video 1: using the cash shop.
Video 2: excuses to use on your parents for the bill.
Video 3: excuses to use on your wife for the bill.

 

 

I just cannot see how anyone can seriously advocate RMP’s in MMO’s, this is how that fiscal model seems to me, a total joke. :)

 

Scot, we need to get this going and copyrighted! We'll make a fortune off the RMT loving idio....er, customers AND keep them out of everyone else game. It's a win-win!

Why doesn't ACC have it's own forum on MMORPG.com? Why are they descriminating against this game?