It just makes me sad reading the changes in book 8. I left in lothlorien because while everyone else seemed to think it was great looking ect, personally I thought it looked awefull. Yes I was playing in dx10 maxed so if the looks where there I would have seen it. To me all it was, was a bunch of generic tree's with a couple funny/well written quests and twice as many lame, time sink boring quests. What got me the most about Lorien was the fact that they had been working on it for SO long. It seems most people forget that it was in development alongside moria as it was sposed to be part of the expansion. Hell the content was finished in a week or two tops for alot of people and with that being mostly a rep grind I truly ask where the content was.

The biggest plus of book 7 was the epic book itself. While it lacked any real combat ect it was verry verry well written imo for that timeframe in the books.

Now enter book 8. Back to moria. Back to combat. Thats great right? Well yea...I guess. Depends on if there is a new zone in moria or not. If it was like the rest of the books in moria (with the exception of a few that where the best epic stories ever told) it was alot of running back and forth all around moria. Utterly bland. Add into that the poor implimentation of the LI system and Moria, while verry good looking and feeling like I thought moria would felt dull in a sense. After you saw Moria it was grind LI's and hope you got the legacies you wanted. Everyone whines about rep grind in WoW and its timesinks. The LI system is exactly the same yet even more lame.

This brings me to first age LI's. At first they where raid only. I dont want to get into the whole raider vs. non raider debate BUT Turbine always said LOTRO would NOT be raid focused. They lied. But wait! in book 7 you could grind out items to get gift boxes that could verry, verry rarly give you a 1st age weapon. Even though it was a verry low rate and the other rewards you could possibly get made alot of people view it as not worthwhile the fact remains it was another option at getting a 1st age item. Better than nothing if your not a raider right? So what does book 8 do? Says FACK you non raiders. BTW I did raid so I am not whining at not getting the chance at 1st age. I did. Thats not the point. I like options. In book 8 these boxes will not only no longer drop 1st age items but now, in a level 60 zone, also have the chance to drop lvl 58,59 and rarly a lvl 60 2nd age item? A big middle finger to you turbine. Not only from myself, but from all the casual non raiders out there you just decided cant have 1st age weapons.

OH and lets not forget the cookie they tossed the raiders. Now you can barter your tokens for a 1st age item. Great right?! Dont let it fool you folks. Most raiding guilds have there group A, group B ect. So you will be getting 1, possibly 2 tokens a week and only then if/when others in your raid group get or already have there 1st age items. Plus you STILL get to play the legacy lottery. So yes, the 1st age grind lottery is still there. They just want you to think your going to get it faster. The only diffrence is you can pick which weapon type your going to get screwed on (unless your luck and if you are, odds are you already have your 1st age).

I love the fact that middle earth has come to life to see. I have every intention of picking up the next expansion to see/experiance the new content/area's that I have missed since I left 2 weeks after book 7 went live. It is Middle earth afterall. However after reading the test patch notes (yes I know they arent set in stone but I have played Turbine games long enough to know it pretty much is regardless of what they say) for book 8 I am glad I havent spent money hoping they actually fix the grindfest that has become the moria expansion. I wish Turbine would go back to pre-expansion ideas. Rethink how they did LI's and impliment it right. Fix crafting ect.

Anyway, thanks for reading my rant. It makes me sad to see what LOTRO has become and the direction its going. However I will see you all in the next expansion. Hopefully by then it wont be as big of a joke (to me) by then as it has become recently.

I dunno, seems to be a bunch of gibberish but then again Im not max cap uber level.

  There were others that disliked Moria to include the bugs that were introduced with path finding of mobs and pet pathfinding difficulties recently had some sent to wrong grave yard as well. To repair costs from raids, to the consept of not only character leveling but item leveling as well . Now it looks like they are heading in a direction of to get to play in a city in the expansion one must have reputation in order not to get killed by the guards.

  Add to that some of the new content in book 8 as it stands  requires eariler radience gear in order to play. It seems they are taking the path of you must follow the yellow brick road or not progress. It seems to me those in the 55 + range that do not want to raid, due to repair costs and the /roll the time it takes to complete it and still maybe not recieve the reward is just making it more difficult with book 8.

   I do hear you op and i as a player that chooses not to raid ( to expensive) feel at this point unless new content is added may be a nice time to take a break.

   I think a book adding go back to Moria would be difficult for those that HATE moria......

    I would of perfered the hidden city before Moria be developed for those 54- 58 and alternative track for those that choose not to raid instead of you must follow this path and only this path design .

  At least 1 - 50 one had some choices ...... With the addition of 50 - 60 moria and raids just seem to be a departure from the rest of the design of the game..... Agree these turns are sad remind me of TOA from daoc and changes in other games that changed general game play

I'm sad I can't leave. %#%# stupid lifetime sub.

crafting revamp is coming in book 8 fyi

and I agree the mentality of turbine forcing us to raid is lame

Originally posted by xenogias

 Hell the content was finished in a week or two tops for alot of people and with that being mostly a rep grind I truly ask where the content was. 

Heh, thats a massive understatement, as I finished the entire Bk.7 epic quest as well as every new quest in Lothlorien, got Kindred rep with Caras, got the new Horse, and ran all 6 of the new crafting instances several times in less than 3 days.

It was entirely solo and complete BS....so I quit.  LOTRO is no longer fun and is way to esy and doesn;t require a group for practically anything anymore.  However, I'll still maybe someday return several Bks after the next expansion guaranteeing myself plenty of stuff to do for a few months, but ultimately quit again and wait on the next expansion.  I've invested way too much time into my Minstrel thus far so I might as well continue to play her through the story from time to time!

Originally posted by xenogias

It just makes me sad reading the changes in book 8. I left in lothlorien because while everyone else seemed to think it was great looking ect, personally I thought it looked awefull. Yes I was playing in dx10 maxed so if the looks where there I would have seen it. To me all it was, was a bunch of generic tree's with a couple funny/well written quests and twice as many lame, time sink boring quests. What got me the most about Lorien was the fact that they had been working on it for SO long. It seems most people forget that it was in development alongside moria as it was sposed to be part of the expansion. Hell the content was finished in a week or two tops for alot of people and with that being mostly a rep grind I truly ask where the content was.

 

The biggest plus of book 7 was the epic book itself. While it lacked any real combat ect it was verry verry well written imo for that timeframe in the books.

 

Now enter book 8. Back to moria. Back to combat. Thats great right? Well yea...I guess. Depends on if there is a new zone in moria or not. If it was like the rest of the books in moria (with the exception of a few that where the best epic stories ever told) it was alot of running back and forth all around moria. Utterly bland. Add into that the poor implimentation of the LI system and Moria, while verry good looking and feeling like I thought moria would felt dull in a sense. After you saw Moria it was grind LI's and hope you got the legacies you wanted. Everyone whines about rep grind in WoW and its timesinks. The LI system is exactly the same yet even more lame.

This brings me to first age LI's. At first they where raid only. I dont want to get into the whole raider vs. non raider debate BUT Turbine always said LOTRO would NOT be raid focused. They lied. But wait! in book 7 you could grind out items to get gift boxes that could verry, verry rarly give you a 1st age weapon. Even though it was a verry low rate and the other rewards you could possibly get made alot of people view it as not worthwhile the fact remains it was another option at getting a 1st age item. Better than nothing if your not a raider right? So what does book 8 do? Says FACK you non raiders. BTW I did raid so I am not whining at not getting the chance at 1st age. I did. Thats not the point. I like options. In book 8 these boxes will not only no longer drop 1st age items but now, in a level 60 zone, also have the chance to drop lvl 58,59 and rarly a lvl 60 2nd age item? A big middle finger to you turbine. Not only from myself, but from all the casual non raiders out there you just decided cant have 1st age weapons.

OH and lets not forget the cookie they tossed the raiders. Now you can barter your tokens for a 1st age item. Great right?! Dont let it fool you folks. Most raiding guilds have there group A, group B ect. So you will be getting 1, possibly 2 tokens a week and only then if/when others in your raid group get or already have there 1st age items. Plus you STILL get to play the legacy lottery. So yes, the 1st age grind lottery is still there. They just want you to think your going to get it faster. The only diffrence is you can pick which weapon type your going to get screwed on (unless your luck and if you are, odds are you already have your 1st age).

I love the fact that middle earth has come to life to see. I have every intention of picking up the next expansion to see/experiance the new content/area's that I have missed since I left 2 weeks after book 7 went live. It is Middle earth afterall. However after reading the test patch notes (yes I know they arent set in stone but I have played Turbine games long enough to know it pretty much is regardless of what they say) for book 8 I am glad I havent spent money hoping they actually fix the grindfest that has become the moria expansion. I wish Turbine would go back to pre-expansion ideas. Rethink how they did LI's and impliment it right. Fix crafting ect.

Anyway, thanks for reading my rant. It makes me sad to see what LOTRO has become and the direction its going. However I will see you all in the next expansion. Hopefully by then it wont be as big of a joke (to me) by then as it has become recently.

/singed

I really dislike the direction Turbine put Lotro in with Moria... Im out for now, and wont be back untill Turbine gets a grip. Next stop, Fallen Earth.

So back to Moria again? Not thrilling. I must admit I truly disliked the entire Moria, and I did all to get through that part as fast as possible. So much running back and forth... nauseating. It just wasnt my pair of shoes.

I'm slowing moving off the boat as well, The vibe of the community has made a 90 degree turn , and I just don't like it. IF that is what sells subs then great, good luck. Nothing makes me more furious then alienating players cause they aren't in a kinship, or don't have a big friends list.

With the changes coming up, more people will feel left out of some of the core content, and the over all morale of the player base will deteriorate, it already happened with book 7.

My biggest annoyance is the 1st age weapons, there should not be millions of these, maybe a hundred or so per server, that is how I was hoping the system would be like, but with everyone raiding non stop the value of the first age stuff really isn't wotrth 80gold peices.

Something will have to clearly change between book 8 and 9, or we might just see a 3 year fizzle.

I guess a lot depends on why you play these games.

I am not a huge fan of Moria either, I finallt capped my minstrel at 60 yeserday, he does not don't own a single piece of radience gear and he does not have a LI item. But  on the other hand I enjoy my kinship, I enjoy the graphics, I enjoy toodling around middle earth. I enjoy the updates and am looking forward to playing in Rohan, Mirkwood, the Long Lake, Helms Deep, and the rest of Middle Earth.  I could nitpick the game but for me it is overall  the best game and best community out there right now. Will I play forever, nope just till something better comes along and so far it hasn't.

Originally posted by Jackdog

I guess a lot depends on why you play these games.

I am not a huge fan of Moria either, I finallt capped my minstrel at 60 yeserday, he does not don't own a single piece of radience gear and he does not have a LI item. But  on the other hand I enjoy my kinship, I enjoy the graphics, I enjoy toodling around middle earth. I enjoy the updates and am looking forward to playing in Rohan, Mirkwood, the Long Lake, Helms Deep, and the rest of Middle Earth.  I could nitpick the game but for me it is overall  the best game and best community out there right now. Will I play forever, nope just till something better comes along and so far it hasn't.

I agree completely with you. Alot of people still enjoy LOTRO. I also intend to play when another expansion releases. I couldnt not buy it if I wanted to. It is middle earth afterall. I applaud you that you arent even using a mini LI book. Its an enhancement to your toon but if you can live without them more power to you. You wont need to feel the hatred for the LI system most of us do :)

Its good to see I'm not the only one not wanting to continue with the way its currently going. Maybe if enough of us speak with our money they will finally realise they screwed up and start taking the game back to the times of SoA. Sure SoA had its issues but the end game content was fun and there was more than 1 option.

Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by Jackdog

I guess a lot depends on why you play these games.

I am not a huge fan of Moria either, I finallt capped my minstrel at 60 yeserday, he does not don't own a single piece of radience gear and he does not have a LI item. But  on the other hand I enjoy my kinship, I enjoy the graphics, I enjoy toodling around middle earth. I enjoy the updates and am looking forward to playing in Rohan, Mirkwood, the Long Lake, Helms Deep, and the rest of Middle Earth.  I could nitpick the game but for me it is overall  the best game and best community out there right now. Will I play forever, nope just till something better comes along and so far it hasn't.

 

I agree completely with you. Alot of people still enjoy LOTRO. I also intend to play when another expansion releases. I couldnt not buy it if I wanted to. It is middle earth afterall. I applaud you that you arent even using a mini LI book. Its an enhancement to your toon but if you can live without them more power to you. You wont need to feel the hatred for the LI system most of us do :)

 

Its good to see I'm not the only one not wanting to continue with the way its currently going. Maybe if enough of us speak with our money they will finally realise they screwed up and start taking the game back to the times of SoA. Sure SoA had its issues but the end game content was fun and there was more than 1 option.

While the LI system isnt perfect I cant see why people are so upset with it. I guess the I WANT THE BEST NOW players dont like it since its pretty much impossible to get a Perefect LI. For everyone else we can just have fun and play the game like it was supposed to be since we get xp for items no matter what we do. Its not like having only a third-age item prevents you from doing anything in the game and its easy to get one with good legacies.

For me LotrO have never been better since Book 8 is fixing most of the big issues with the game IMO.

Originally posted by xenogias  

I agree completely with you. Alot of people still enjoy LOTRO. I also intend to play when another expansion releases. I couldnt not buy it if I wanted to. It is middle earth afterall. I applaud you that you arent even using a mini LI book. Its an enhancement to your toon but if you can live without them more power to you.

Amazingly enough I can keep a Turtle raid healed with my paltry second age items LOL. One of these days the damn turtle might drop a minnie LI item for me but I ain't holding my breath till it happens ROFL. Oh and I just got my second sublime dawn rose ring as of yesterday and while it is nice I was surviving perfectly well without it. I think one of the main issues here is that a lot of people have been leaving WoW to play LoTRO and cannot comp[rehend it isn't as gear dependent as their last game..

Originally posted by OoMpAlOmPaZ

 I agree the mentality of turbine forcing us to raid is lame

Um, they are not.

Because a book has some raid changes, all the sudden the whole game is about raiding? You guys have to be kidding me. Turbine always has done a good job of adding new content, new features and yes sometimes a raid.

Big deal.

Whats funny is, the gift box changes were asked for because people did not enjoy the high risk high reward system it previously used.

It's Ok if the change is not for you, but to say this is the "new direction" is just plain old fashioned drama. Pure drama. Especially when you are ignoring the crafting revamp, the continuation of the storyline, and the upcoming skirmish system, the bree-land revamp (in this book).

I just hope who ever got moved off this project and onto somethingnew  who was incharge of creating the lotro vibe, comes back, cause something has clearly changed ikn the ranks of Turbine cause the though processes for these books are nothing like Volume 1

I',m playing Far Cry right now so I 'm hoping the break from LotRo will heal some of my angst, BTW Far CRY 2 is F$#@#ING awesome !

I may be missing it, but the bk 8 patch notes didn't mention anything about the 4 new instances being added in bk 8; so I would have to assume those patch notes aren't complete.

*doesn't raid.. still enjoys the game*  :)

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by OoMpAlOmPaZ

 I agree the mentality of turbine forcing us to raid is lame

 

Um, they are not.

 

Because a book has some raid changes, all the sudden the whole game is about raiding? You guys have to be kidding me. Turbine always has done a good job of adding new content, new features and yes sometimes a raid.

Big deal.

Whats funny is, the gift box changes were asked for because people did not enjoy the high risk high reward system it previously used.

 

It's Ok if the change is not for you, but to say this is the "new direction" is just plain old fashioned drama. Pure drama. Especially when you are ignoring the crafting revamp, the continuation of the storyline, and the upcoming skirmish system, the bree-land revamp (in this book).

 

Thats true. They are not forcing you to raid, but they are trying to steer you in that direction.

For example:

I have done all the six instances once or twice (twice to help friends out), I have no intentions to raid so the radiance gear are of no interest to me. End game option 1 - grind the six instances for gear. No thanks! If I want to grind quests for gear, I rather play DDO which have much higher quality quests.

LI system. Again, gear centric end game. I am quite happy with my LI items, they are both lvl 35+ with decent settings. End game option 2 - Grind XP and setting for your LI items. Sorry, but I couldnt care less if my weapon is lvl 25, 40 or 50 and if the rune gives +150 morale or +100.

Crafting. Well this was gonna my saviour, but no. To gain access to the end game recipes in Lorien, you have to grind repeatable quests in lorien. Whoever came up with that bright idea should be smacked with a hammer! End game option 3 - (crafting) grinding repeatable quests in Lorien. No thanks!

Lotro PvP is out of the question. Whats left? Killing a Turtle for gear? Eating 100 lembas? When it comes down to it, Lotro's end game is all about grinding instances/quests for gear and thats the same mentality as raiding, which is starting to affect the community in a negativ way. It is raiding just on a smaller scale. Lotro has made a U-turn and I am loathing every minute of it...

WOE is me, WOE is me I have no radience gear or T1 items what ogh what shall I do LOLLoL

I guess if you are the type that has to have the latest and greatest gear to feel like your toon is playable I can see where some of the posters in this thread would feel the way ythey do. However as I am fond of pointing out, my level 60 Minstrel does quite well with a T2 weapon and  T2 songbook and has not a single piece of Radience gear. LoTRO is not WoW and you can get alontg just fine with solo and group quest  drops and crafed gear. Anyone who says otherwise is dead wrong and my character is virtual proof of it. Maybe by this time tommorrow I might have a L1 item since I am have been requested to assist in a  turtle raid, but if not I will not be crying and wringing my hands.

What really gets me laughing though is every single MMO I can think of has gear with stats with the exception of AoC and it's latest and greatest bandaid to stop the subscriber bleed is p[atch 1.05 whiuch my oh my introduces equipment with stats and makes the stats worthwhile.

I also have to wonder a lot about the mythical PvE endgame that everyone hypothcizes about, what exactly are you supposed to do when you level cap except help guildmates, work on crafting and  level alts. Could someone clue me in to the game with the perfect endgame and tell me all about it?

Originally posted by BesCirga

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by OoMpAlOmPaZ

 I agree the mentality of turbine forcing us to raid is lame

 

Um, they are not.

 

Because a book has some raid changes, all the sudden the whole game is about raiding? You guys have to be kidding me. Turbine always has done a good job of adding new content, new features and yes sometimes a raid.

Big deal.

Whats funny is, the gift box changes were asked for because people did not enjoy the high risk high reward system it previously used.

 

It's Ok if the change is not for you, but to say this is the "new direction" is just plain old fashioned drama. Pure drama. Especially when you are ignoring the crafting revamp, the continuation of the storyline, and the upcoming skirmish system, the bree-land revamp (in this book).

 

 

Thats true. They are not forcing you to raid, but they are trying to steer you in that direction.

For example:

I have done all the six instances once or twice (twice to help friends out), I have no intentions to raid so the radiance gear are of no interest to me. End game option 1 - grind the six instances for gear. No thanks! If I want to grind quests for gear, I rather play DDO which have much higher quality quests.

LI system. Again, gear centric end game. I am quite happy with my LI items, they are both lvl 35+ with decent settings. End game option 2 - Grind XP and setting for your LI items. Sorry, but I couldnt care less if my weapon is lvl 25, 40 or 50 and if the rune gives +150 morale or +100.

Crafting. Well this was gonna my saviour, but no. To gain access to the end game recipes in Lorien, you have to grind repeatable quests in lorien. Whoever came up with that bright idea should be smacked with a hammer! End game option 3 - (crafting) grinding repeatable quests in Lorien. No thanks!

Lotro PvP is out of the question. Whats left? Killing a Turtle for gear? Eating 100 lembas? When it comes down to it, Lotro's end game is all about grinding instances/quests for gear and thats the same mentality as raiding, which is starting to affect the community in a negativ way. It is raiding just on a smaller scale. Lotro has made a U-turn and I am loathing every minute of it...

So what did you do at level 50 in SoA? Running inatances wasnt worth it because good drops was VERY rare. There was no point grinding rep since the reward was poor. Sure crafting was good but it was grindy and once you got the crafted stuff there wasnt much point doing anything else. And you could run the Rift...So actually people were forced to raid in SoA.! In MoM there are now alot of differnt things to choose from and there are lots of ways to progress your character when reaching lvl 60.

People whinged that their was nothing to do at "end-game" before Moria.... now they whinge because there are things to do at "end-game". I guess its not possible to make MMO players happy :/

Ok you want to play a MMO where you dont Grind, Raid or Run instances at level cap? Tell me when you find one...

Not sure why i am responding but someone did not read what was written. No i am not moaning about no radience gear. I do not think the design of the game play is worth the effort or expense . Do not like or enjoy the land mass design of moria or gaining rep for a PAID for expansion .

 So the alternative is a break or play an alt. I do not be grudge anyone that goes after the prize or gets the /roll. It just will not be me or my character.....

  I also believe lotr is following many other games out there expansion ideas. As you achieve this set then next expansion level cap will have this prize around. Not........ I do not need that goodie or the next goodie as a player ...I will play what is fun to me and i enjoy and ignore the rest period.....