Originally posted by jamizzle89

 

A few characters. You cannot emulate the story of a few characters and transpose them to what Bioware hopes to be hundreds of thousands of virtual characters. How individual do you really think these story paths are going to be? How original? How unique? It just does not work. The clue is in the name of the genre: MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER. That means that the inferred heroism they want to make you feel is lost in translation when you consider everyone is just as good. Therein lies the problem.

MMOs do not give god like status to individual players, you are a small part of something big.

 

Who made that rule? Why can#t you be a -BIG- part of something -BIGGER-? Just because you think it shouldn't be that way?

 

You cite this "moisture farmer" nonsense in reference to the gaming experience of SWG. You're quoting directly from SOE's marketing team when they were trying to plug the NGE, perhaps that is the game for you...? Do you honestly think that is an accurate description of SWG? What you seem to forget about SWG are its finer points, rather than the shit parts. Granted, urban sprawl was a bit of a joke, and there were plenty of other problems like fight clubs etc, but you dispute men with pet rancors? The ugly topless guy in Jabba's palace was the rancor's master, read the lore, and in a universe where pissy little cells in someone's blood can be somehow used to telekinetically manipulate objects would suggest that having a pet alien would not be too far removed from reality, don't you think?

 

Would you mind quitting telling me I supposedly quote something from SOE's marketing team? Just because they use the term moisture farmers doesn't mean i got it from there, thank you very much. Fact is, that is what quite a few people have asked to -BE- in many posts, including in some on this forum. Now to move on.

To your Pet Rancor theory. Yeah, fine. Of course there were Beast masters. But were they a huge part of the movies? No, they were not. Were they standing around on every corner INSIDE Mos Eisley? No, they did not. That' swhat I pointed out, no more no less.

Did you ever play SWG properly? Some of my best moments in MMO gaming came in SWG, defending my guild town, attacking our rivals, launching attacks on Star Destroyers, but there was also a good social element, like meeting people in the cantina or waiting in the starport for a shuttle. Not to mention how the players ran the economy. You don't find it fun, that's fine, but don't patronise the people that did enjoy it.

 

I enjoyed SWG for a long time. I liked the community in the game. The game itself, not so much. It certainly had its pluses, but it had a LOT of faults. Community was excellent though. Thanks again for making assumptions about people. I'm not patronising anyone. I pointed out the flaw in the logic of saying the original Star Wars movies were in the same "spirit" as SWG. Read. My. Post.

You also try to argue that the Jedi's dominace of the story is justification for everyone being able to be Jedi in the game simply because "back then there were loads" (TOR era). If consistency is what you base your argument on, tell me how a grunt is supposed to confidently take on a Jedi, and win? You might argue they are "elite". Trite. If the path to becoming a Jedi is so hard, A) why should you be simply allowed to click your mouse and become one (seeing as that would enormously inconsistent with the story) and B) why would someone with such prowess and potential even bother becoming trying to become a Jedi seeing as he could simply become "elite" and not put himself through the hassle? In fact, what would be the point in the Jedi anyway if they were so martially inept? What kind of a feared and respected organisation would the Jedi Order be if an average joe could bully their members? THAT would be inconsistency, no?

Are you kidding me? This is a frikking GAME! Have you spent countless hours doing weapons training, squad tactics and physical conditioning so you can be a good Trooper...in a GAME? No? Well then why should anyone be allowed to just -click- and make a Republic Trooper? Huh?

Fact is, in the Old Republic, you had quite a lot of Jedi. Thus, many Jedi's running around in the game is NOT inconsistent with the lore. Period.

To further this Jedi point, I really cannot see how someone can justify the point "there were plenty of jedi back then". By plenty, we'd be talking thousands here, as that is how many people will play them. Its a small selective order ! Do you honestly think such a small organisation could sufficiently scout that many force sensitive beings across the galaxy, and then oversee the training of THOUSANDS of aspiring Jedi whilst still possessing the wit to ensure NONE of them are tempted by the dark side on top of maintaning an exorbitant standard of training to ensure their quality is unquestionable? I don't see it buddy. The Jedi order is not a factory, and if it had the capability to produce thousands in the TOR era, why would they have stopped this practice (you don't see thousands of Jedi in E1-3).

Errr...actually, yes I do believe that is possible. Should I now point out how many sentient beings are probably alive in the Star Wars Galaxy? Gazillions? Think that a thousand exceptional individuals amongst BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of people is...weird? Personally, I really don't think so.

With regard to the other classes, they don't excite me; trooper and bounty hunter, along with 2 jedi classes. I wonder what they are going to be? Its kind of obvious, don't you think? There is nothing original here. The hype this game has received based unfounded. Bioware could lead you blindfolded off the edge of a cliff, and many people would happily follow. What are you basing this on, previous titles? Based on what I've seen so far (a few planets and the same bog standard player professions) this game is neither unique nor worth of all its attention. Sufficient certainty is what should be looked for in a game in development, not chasing of shadows and expectation. As good as KOTOR1&2 were, the were single player games, you could be the hero, Leeds Utd and the Miami Dolphins used to dominate their respective sports. Where are they now? I honestly believe that the developer's secrecy is down to the fact that they are only hatching another WoW clone.

Yes, I am basing my own hopes for this game on my previous experiences with BioWare. I enjoyed every single one of their games. I have no reason to not trust them to make a good game again. I do not -KNOW- if it will be good. never said that. I just give them the benefit of the doubt, while all you do is complain that their game does not correspond with YOUR vision of how a game for Star Wars should be made.

 

Oh, and I -love- the Old Republic timeline. Another factor for me why i am excited about this. Is that a problem?

Res Ipsa Loqitur....

PS I don't care for SWG anymore.

 

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by singsofdeath 

I have no problem with crafting. I have no problem with housing. I didn't even have a huge problem with player-housing as it was implemented in SWG. I didn't much care for it, but hey, to each their own.

 

But to say that the original Star Wars was about -THAT- is just blatantly wrong. Period. The original Star Wars was an epic story, about Luke and his friends, fighting an evil emperor and rescuing a princess in the process. It was about dramatic fights, it was about moral dilemmas. It was _NOT- about building your own home and being a moisture farmer on Tattooine.

 

I simply detest people who tell me that the original Trilogy was all about the "Little Man" and about "Life" in the Star Wars universe, because it was not. It was about -HEROES- in the Star Wars universe.

 

That's what I pointed out and if you would watch the original movies again, you might actually see that it is true.

 

Crafting and Community aspects are important in MMO's. To varying degrees. I've called for strong social functionality in this game before. Social hubs, cantinas and the like, I personally don't care much for crafting, but I know it is a necessary component in such a game because people enjoy it. Quit reading into my posts what you want to see so you can try to bash them.

No one has said Star Wars was about crafting or harvesting or player housing, you are just implying that those were the only features available in SWG. They were each in SWG because they keep people playing between large battles and quests. People want to craft, people want to harvest, some of us even want player housing, it doesn't mean that those are the only things that should be in the game.

 

There are plenty of people out there that do not want to be Darth Vader or Princess Leia, and forcing them into that type role will just alienate them. There are entire guilds and communities willing to try this game out but by alienating those who enjoy playing "the little man" you limit your potential player-base.

 

*sigh*

OK, for the last time: I took someone's post, someone who claimed that Star Wars galaxies represented the spirit of the original trilogy. I disputed this. I -NEVER- said crafting shouldn#t be in a game. I never said social activities shouldn#t be in a game. Nor did I say housing shouldn't be in a game.

But I -DID- point out that the original Star Wars was a -HEROIC- story. Period. The spirit of the original Star Wars was not about the droid engineer in his back-yard shop (tired of being accused of using SOE pep talk), or about a dancer in a cantina. That's -ALL- I said in my post.

Sure Star Wars Galaxies had other things to it. Never claimed otherwise. I played it for 2 years and played in Beta. I -do- know what the game had to offer.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by jamizzle89

 

A few characters. You cannot emulate the story of a few characters and transpose them to what Bioware hopes to be hundreds of thousands of virtual characters. How individual do you really think these story paths are going to be? How original? How unique? It just does not work. The clue is in the name of the genre: MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER. That means that the inferred heroism they want to make you feel is lost in translation when you consider everyone is just as good. Therein lies the problem.

MMOs do not give god like status to individual players, you are a small part of something big.

 

Who made that rule? Why can#t you be a -BIG- part of something -BIGGER-? Just because you think it shouldn't be that way?

 The industry made that rule. Name me one commercially viable MMO where heroism of individual players is the epicentre of the game.

You cite this "moisture farmer" nonsense in reference to the gaming experience of SWG. You're quoting directly from SOE's marketing team when they were trying to plug the NGE, perhaps that is the game for you...? Do you honestly think that is an accurate description of SWG? What you seem to forget about SWG are its finer points, rather than the shit parts. Granted, urban sprawl was a bit of a joke, and there were plenty of other problems like fight clubs etc, but you dispute men with pet rancors? The ugly topless guy in Jabba's palace was the rancor's master, read the lore, and in a universe where pissy little cells in someone's blood can be somehow used to telekinetically manipulate objects would suggest that having a pet alien would not be too far removed from reality, don't you think?

 

Would you mind quitting telling me I supposedly quote something from SOE's marketing team? Just because they use the term moisture farmers doesn't mean i got it from there, thank you very much. Fact is, that is what quite a few people have asked to -BE- in many posts, including in some on this forum. Now to move on.

If you honestly felt like a moisture farmer whilst you player SWG, and kept playing, doesn't that make you a chump? You ARE quoting SOE's marketing team, thats their quote. I'm fairly sure you didn't start the Uncle Owen/Mositure Farmer profile of SWG.

To your Pet Rancor theory. Yeah, fine. Of course there were Beast masters. But were they a huge part of the movies? No, they were not. Were they standing around on every corner INSIDE Mos Eisley? No, they did not. That' swhat I pointed out, no more no less.

Would you mind not getting so worked up about a video game? Spies wren't a huge part of the movies, doctors weren't a huge part of the movies, rangers weren't a huge part of the movies, droid engineers weren't a huge part of the movies, commandos weren't a huge part of the movies, teras kasi artists weren't a huge part of the movies, image designers weren't a huge part of the movies. Need I continue? Why were they there? Simple! They were part of a community, and they were options given to players to be part of that community. Jesus Christ, are we to assume doctors don't exist in Star Wars because they were round every corner in Mos Eisley? I forgot Mos Eisley wasn't just a shitpot town in the middle of the desert and not a window into the Star Wars galaxy representing everything and anything in it. Tool.

Did you ever play SWG properly? Some of my best moments in MMO gaming came in SWG, defending my guild town, attacking our rivals, launching attacks on Star Destroyers, but there was also a good social element, like meeting people in the cantina or waiting in the starport for a shuttle. Not to mention how the players ran the economy. You don't find it fun, that's fine, but don't patronise the people that did enjoy it.

 

I enjoyed SWG for a long time. I liked the community in the game. The game itself, not so much. It certainly had its pluses, but it had a LOT of faults. Community was excellent though. Thanks again for making assumptions about people. I'm not patronising anyone. I pointed out the flaw in the logic of saying the original Star Wars movies were in the same "spirit" as SWG. Read. My. Post.

If you were as good as expressing yourself as you were at moping, maybe I'd understand what you mean by the "spirit".

You also try to argue that the Jedi's dominace of the story is justification for everyone being able to be Jedi in the game simply because "back then there were loads" (TOR era). If consistency is what you base your argument on, tell me how a grunt is supposed to confidently take on a Jedi, and win? You might argue they are "elite". Trite. If the path to becoming a Jedi is so hard, A) why should you be simply allowed to click your mouse and become one (seeing as that would enormously inconsistent with the story) and B) why would someone with such prowess and potential even bother becoming trying to become a Jedi seeing as he could simply become "elite" and not put himself through the hassle? In fact, what would be the point in the Jedi anyway if they were so martially inept? What kind of a feared and respected organisation would the Jedi Order be if an average joe could bully their members? THAT would be inconsistency, no?

Are you kidding me? This is a frikking GAME! Have you spent countless hours doing weapons training, squad tactics and physical conditioning so you can be a good Trooper...in a GAME? No? Well then why should anyone be allowed to just -click- and make a Republic Trooper? Huh?

Fact is, in the Old Republic, you had quite a lot of Jedi. Thus, many Jedi's running around in the game is NOT inconsistent with the lore. Period.

You've ignored the point (once again). Why. Would. A. Person. Capable. Of. Becoming. A. Jedi. Become. One. If. It. Gave. Him. No. Advantage. Over. A. Non-Jedi. Combatant? How would the Jedi Order function if they had no offensive clout? This is a point about class balance. Making a Jedi as powerful as a trooper is completely inconsistent with the lore. And when I played KOTOR, I don't remember seeing thousands of Jedi. Many, yes, but thousands?

Having Jedi has a starting profession raises balance issues. Would a lightsabre not just cut through a troopers battle armour in the movies? Is that not why Jedi are superior? In your idyllic TOR, this would not be the case, what the hell is the point of a lightsabre if you can't use it to dispatch your enemies quickly!?

To further this Jedi point, I really cannot see how someone can justify the point "there were plenty of jedi back then". By plenty, we'd be talking thousands here, as that is how many people will play them. Its a small selective order ! Do you honestly think such a small organisation could sufficiently scout that many force sensitive beings across the galaxy, and then oversee the training of THOUSANDS of aspiring Jedi whilst still possessing the wit to ensure NONE of them are tempted by the dark side on top of maintaning an exorbitant standard of training to ensure their quality is unquestionable? I don't see it buddy. The Jedi order is not a factory, and if it had the capability to produce thousands in the TOR era, why would they have stopped this practice (you don't see thousands of Jedi in E1-3).

Errr...actually, yes I do believe that is possible. Should I now point out how many sentient beings are probably alive in the Star Wars Galaxy? Gazillions? Think that a thousand exceptional individuals amongst BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of people is...weird? Personally, I really don't think so.

Rrrrright. And how are these force sensitives found again? They are stumbled upon in their childhood. You don't send your curriculum vitae into the Jedi Order and hope to hear back from them numbnuts, nor did the Jedi Order send people door to door to find out if there were any potential recruits. Practicality is what this point is all about:

1. Find force sensitive Jedi who is young enough.

2. Train potential Jedi for a number of years

3. Ensure this Jedi does not become tempted by the Dark Side during his training.

4. Find a Jedi Master to train the pupil.

5. Repeat stages 1 through 4 for, apparently, thousands of other aspiring Jedi.

6.  Mysteriously stop this practice of training thousands of Jedi before the era of the films.

Bit of an administrative nightmare, don't you think? Its all about capacity, does the Jedi Order have the capacity to train so many Jedi? You claim they do, yet you have offerred no evidence in support of this.

You've also completely ignored the point about the Jedi, for some reason, halting this production before Episodes 1 through 3. If they were capable of producing so many, why did they stop?

With regard to the other classes, they don't excite me; trooper and bounty hunter, along with 2 jedi classes. I wonder what they are going to be? Its kind of obvious, don't you think? There is nothing original here. The hype this game has received based unfounded. Bioware could lead you blindfolded off the edge of a cliff, and many people would happily follow. What are you basing this on, previous titles? Based on what I've seen so far (a few planets and the same bog standard player professions) this game is neither unique nor worth of all its attention. Sufficient certainty is what should be looked for in a game in development, not chasing of shadows and expectation. As good as KOTOR1&2 were, the were single player games, you could be the hero, Leeds Utd and the Miami Dolphins used to dominate their respective sports. Where are they now? I honestly believe that the developer's secrecy is down to the fact that they are only hatching another WoW clone.

Yes, I am basing my own hopes for this game on my previous experiences with BioWare. I enjoyed every single one of their games. I have no reason to not trust them to make a good game again. I do not -KNOW- if it will be good. never said that. I just give them the benefit of the doubt, while all you do is complain that their game does not correspond with YOUR vision of how a game for Star Wars should be made.

 You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig. Your choice.

Oh, and I -love- the Old Republic timeline. Another factor for me why i am excited about this. Is that a problem?

Liek omgosh, did I say there was a problem? Can you please quit making statements about what I am trying to infer from your drivel!!!!???1111////

Res Ipsa Loqitur....

You probably don't know what this means.

PS I don't care for SWG anymore.

 

 

 Sigh....

F. For Fail. Thats what I grade your analysis of my post.

You've managed to completely miss everything I've said. I would like to try and explain what I've said in a more basic, rudimentary way, although I'm afraid you'll get your little red marker pen out and whine about how you're right and I'm wrong. Honestly, I don't know how I could simplify this further. I could have more constructive conversation with a shit chucking ape.

Perhaps you should crawl back into the TOR forum, where your fanboi friends will accept you back into their non-moisture farm, non-sandbox, pro-Bioware, high octane intense action, non crafting camraderie and then when the game fails, you can blame the SWG Vets for being negative.

Originally posted by jamizzle89

 Sigh....

F. For Fail. Thats what I grade your analysis of my post.

You've managed to completely miss everything I've said. I would like to try and explain what I've said in a more basic, rudimentary way, although I'm afraid you'll get your little red marker pen out and whine about how you're right and I'm wrong. Honestly, I don't know how I could simplify this further. I could have more constructive conversation with a shit chucking ape.

Perhaps you should crawl back into the TOR forum, where your fanboi friends will accept you back into their non-moisture farm, non-sandbox, pro-Bioware, high octane intense action, non crafting camraderie and then when the game fails, you can blame the SWG Vets for being negative.

 

 

I have no idea why you make this personal. Really, I don't. The fact is, -YOU- missed what point I was trying to make in my original post. All you did was complain that I am (in your eyes) a whiney, mopey person, complaining that SWG was not what I wanted it to be (or something to that effect).

In reality, I only pointed out that the Star Wars movies were an epic story and that's that. Comparing Star Wars Galaxies to the original movies and saying the game was everything the movies were just does not fit. Didn't say anything else. Whatever other issues you brought up have nothing to do with that anymore. You went on to complain about the Old Republic setting, about too many Jedi about god knows what.

Why you need to resort to insults to strengthen your arguments, I don't know. Maybe you get the same kind of pleasure from it as you get from putting phrases at the end of a post that you can feel smug about knowing where others don't know? Because no, I do not know what it means. I could google it, but frankly, you are not worth the effort anymore. Not after degrading your own, so far quite interesting posts into an insult-fling-fest.

I shall indeed -crawl- back to the TOR forums, where I can have a decent conversation and write my stories and be glad about a game coming out, being made by a company I believe in.

For every other poster I have argued with in this thread: Star Wars Galaxies was a fun game. I enjoyed it while I played it, -DESPITE- its flaws which were there. But no, I did not think it captured the spirit of the original Trilogy movies. The person I have quoted obviously cannot differentiate between the two things.

Good night and enjoy the continuing discussions.

I'm going to refrain from going back and quoting every point I want to make (reply to someone else) so I'll leave them in one response.

The Jedi were not the focal point of the original trilogy. Yes, his powers and the fact that his father was a Jedi... meeting of Obi Wan, etc had Jedi elements to it, it wasn't the primary focus. The focus was a battle between "good" and "evil" (I liked the Empire myself) in a world that was forced into a civil war between the Rebellion and the Empire. The fact that Moff's came into power to control planets, Admirals of fleets, Generals of Stormtrooper Armies had NOTHING to do with the force. The reason he made those movies first is because they had substance. The other three were very bland.

I don't want to play a pre-quel game, or anything having to do with the era before it. The Knights games were ok... nothing spectacular, and I played them all. After the first for PC it really wasn't revolutionary anymore. It was a sci-fi game set in a world distant from what I know as Star Wars. Of course all the new fans of the saga will only know the new trilogy... and I use that term trilogy lightly. They've read the NJO books, watched the tv show, and played the games all centered on the clone wars.

It's silly to me, sorry but Jedi, Sith, none of that interests me. I'd love nothing more than to sport a Stormtrooper uniform, and do battle on Hoth against hundreds of other players. Maybe steer an AT-AT or other such vehicle. But, we'll never see that outside of the already completed games until people get a grasp on their senses.

Honestly... what are half if not more of population going to be in that game if they have the right off the bat choice? Of course they're going to pick a force user. I don't care if you balance the classes out (which they never will be), you'll still have these fools running all over the place with lightsabers in their hands. LAME.

What these devs don't understand is that a class like Jedi can NOT be made available easily. The best part about pre-CU was that it took CONSIDERABLE effort to get Jedi. Even then I think it was way too easy. One a month is what I proposed on the forums... don't let any more than that be made. Of course they didn't listen and then they had too many. Same will happen here. People will try out the other classes, but they will want to be a Jedi. Why? Because that's what the movies, books, and shows are doing.

The days of Timothy Zahn's Empire and the Galactic Civil War are over. Until people start re-seeding their roots, we'll never go full circle. They'll keep making these "Same Old Republic" games until people are completely put off on Star Wars.

The problem is the fan base pre-prequel... is small. It rose a bit when they re-released the movies as the younger generation finally got their taste, but the fact is anyone who saw the original in the theater probably has a full time job, family, etc and doesn't play games like they used to. The younger crowd is what's taking over and unfortunately they just don't know.

SWG had the biggest player base, and most innovative system (allowing for ENDLESS possibilities in crafting, housing, entertainment professions, and with the mix and match system of the class trees) that made it a very enjoyable game. It only failed because it tried to capture the new generation and forget where it came from. They had HUGE success on the original trilogy era, and should have stuck with it. I remember servers packed to the gills with troopers, rebels, RPers, non-RPers, dancers, doctors, pilots... etc. It was a fantastic world created on the one thing I loved most at the time. But after it dove face first into the ground and LucasArts/LucasFilms or whoever is responsible now, turned it into the mess it is now, I have a hard time loving it like I used to.

This game wont solve that. This game wont appease the masses that felt left out after the SWG crash and burn. This wont appease the fan base that rose this franchise to its height. I wish it was the solution, and that it'll be great... but I'm sorry but anything involving Jedi as a selectable class is very suspect. I'll give it a try, don't get me wrong... but I can't say this will be anything we've not seen before.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by jamizzle89

 Sigh....

F. For Fail. Thats what I grade your analysis of my post.

You've managed to completely miss everything I've said. I would like to try and explain what I've said in a more basic, rudimentary way, although I'm afraid you'll get your little red marker pen out and whine about how you're right and I'm wrong. Honestly, I don't know how I could simplify this further. I could have more constructive conversation with a shit chucking ape.

Perhaps you should crawl back into the TOR forum, where your fanboi friends will accept you back into their non-moisture farm, non-sandbox, pro-Bioware, high octane intense action, non crafting camraderie and then when the game fails, you can blame the SWG Vets for being negative.

 

 

 

I have no idea why you make this personal. Really, I don't. The fact is, -YOU- missed what point I was trying to make in my original post. All you did was complain that I am (in your eyes) a whiney, mopey person, complaining that SWG was not what I wanted it to be (or something to that effect).

 

In reality, I only pointed out that the Star Wars movies were an epic story and that's that. Comparing Star Wars Galaxies to the original movies and saying the game was everything the movies were just does not fit. Didn't say anything else. Whatever other issues you brought up have nothing to do with that anymore. You went on to complain about the Old Republic setting, about too many Jedi about god knows what.

 

Why you need to resort to insults to strengthen your arguments, I don't know. Maybe you get the same kind of pleasure from it as you get from putting phrases at the end of a post that you can feel smug about knowing where others don't know? Because no, I do not know what it means. I could google it, but frankly, you are not worth the effort anymore. Not after degrading your own, so far quite interesting posts into an insult-fling-fest.

 

I shall indeed -crawl- back to the TOR forums, where I can have a decent conversation and write my stories and be glad about a game coming out, being made by a company I believe in.

 

For every other poster I have argued with in this thread: Star Wars Galaxies was a fun game. I enjoyed it while I played it, -DESPITE- its flaws which were there. But no, I did not think it captured the spirit of the original Trilogy movies. The person I have quoted obviously cannot differentiate between the two things.

 

Good night and enjoy the continuing discussions.

 

 

Oh purleaaaaaaaaaaaaase.

I write a step by step debunking of ALL of your points and you pick the most feeble parts of my argument to discuss backing it up with no evidence, that in itself is infuriating, so much of my original post you have simply ignored has you have no response to it and you have done it again this time focussing only on some light hearted banter. What's wrong, not got anything else to say?

I put the phrase at the end because it rounds off my post rather nicely, if you chose pride, ignorance and laziness over knowledge, what does that say about you..?

If you want to play TOR, go ahead, no one is stopping you, but for you to feel offended by what I've said means you need to get a grip mate. Personally, I find it patronising when you write posts and feel I am not quite able enough to take account of your emphasis on certain things by putting a - either side of a word, but I wouldn't ignore the main point of your post because I don't have nothing to respond. Have I said anything about it before now? No, because unlike you, I was focussing on the matter at hand rather than going off on a completely different tangent.

If you can't accept a different opinion, as well as compromise, you should not be posting yours..

Originally posted by ianicus

Originally posted by Dosska

Originally posted by ianicus

ok so you dont like biowares idea. Thats too bad, because im pretty sure its going to be a fun ride. What your looking for is not what the mass market is looking for anymore im afraid. The days of the sandbox mmo have come to a close as far as I can see, which is a shame, I love them too, but I can learn to love something different. If you cant learn to evolve with the video game industry your going to miss out bub.

 

 I question that what the video game industry is doing could actually be called "evolving"  A lot of times it seems more like "stagnating" to me as far as creativity and innovation are concerned.  In any event I feel the OPs' pain as far as Jedi and SWG goes.  That was what ruined it for me also.  I didn't even mind the combat and class changes as much.  If they had gotten rid of the Jedi there's a good chance I'd stil be playing. Having said that, I haven't completely written this new game off. Although it has Jedi I realize it's a different game and I'll wait for more info before deciding to try it  or not.  I have become less interested in it though, especially since I just learned they are planning on some kind of RMT system.

 

Well, even if it IS stagnateing as you say, thats evolution if you want to get technical, but in the end I disagree with your assement...

Yeah that's fine. I think for the most part it's probably a subjective topic anyway, no absolute rights or wrongs.  I'm not claiming that it definitely is stagnating, just that lately it frequently seems that way to me.  But my real point was this: I don't believe that all changes are good just because they are change, some can be negative as well, and I'm not obligated or required to embrace  or love every new change as something great and positive simply because it is a change.

Originally posted by Dosska 

Yeah that's fine. I think for the most part it's probably a subjective topic anyway, no absolute rights or wrongs.  I'm not claiming that it definitely is stagnating, just that lately it frequently seems that way to me.  But my real point was this: I don't believe that all changes are good just because they are change, some can be negative as well, and I'm not obligated or required to embrace  or love every new change as something great and positive simply because it is a change.

Yeah I could care less what someone calls it at this point. Things just kinda blow at this point. We have a bunch of companies drooling over Blizzards success and instead of creating the next big thing, everyone's trying to create something to compete with WoW. Blizzard proved that there are millions of gamers out there waiting for the right game to come along but everyone seems hellbent on fighting over WoWs customers.

Well I can see where the OP is coming from.  No space flight and you can bet far too many People playing Jedi are significant negatives that stand out from the information we have available to us at the moment.  

We will just have to wait and see how Bioware overcomes these deficiencies.  Remember Bioware has zero experience doing MMO's.  This is a huge step up from their successful games of the past.

I am taking a wait and see attitude at the moment, but I will laugh heartily at anyone extolling this game too.

Rip SWG

If SWG did what EVE Online has done the last 6 years, building upon their foundation, fixing bugs, tweaking features and adding more content, then SWG would have more then 600k subs.

Greetings

Originally posted by TJYoung80234

It embodied what the TRUE Star Wars saga is all about.

What about the original SWG embodied the TRUE Star Wars saga?

Was it the walking around everywhere, the home decorating, or killing of millions of vicous giant chickens to become a master of kung foo?

OP I mostly agree with you.  I understand, however, how people can get hooked on jedi.  We both gotta admit, jedi are darn cool.  That being said, I agree with everything else.  All the planets, and ships, and resources, and housing, not to mention the content that could have been developed.  Oh well, one of these  days we'll get a good sanbox/hybrid sci-fi mmo and it will be like swg all over again but hopefully better.

I do not think everyone in an MMO should be a hero, but people of ability. It seems the timeline for TOR sets that up nicely because jedi/sith were abundant, bounty hunters, etc, who were all people of ability. They were not the norms nor the ultimate hero or villain (although I'm sure each had instances of such).

I think that is what an MMO needs, characters of ability, who strive to make a name for themselves as a hero or villain.

On a side note, I am not sure how this game will pan out as an MMO. It almost seems like an online single player rpg with some interaction, but I will still give the game a try even if that is exactly what it is because I would hopefully still garner some enjoyment from it.

Originally posted by BioNut

Originally posted by mrw0lf

Here's the thing I don't get though, aren't Jedi supposed to be overpowered?

 

Yes but only against most common soldiers. You play the elite of the elite in the game.

For lore reference Bobba Fett was a Jedi Hunter. He killed plenty of Jedi by himself. If you read the books you will notice that mandolorians in general are very good at taking out Jedi. It is not hard to believe that not all Jedi are that amazing either. We only know about the top tier jedi, what about the scrubs? Maybe we will play one of those?

Jedi powers actualy don't work well on certain people. Also even non jedi have force.  The elite of the elite soldiers often have latent force ability, though not in a way that could make them jedi or sith.