Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by Hammertime1

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by rello

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by rello

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by JGMIII

I love it for years we've been saying WoW isn't as big due to its Asia Sub numbers (we don;t count them tbh)

All the fanbots said that's BS and they do count.

Now that Aion is kicking the shit out of blizzard in Asia they no longer matter to the fanbots.

Seriously better watch out that "11.5 million subs" crap that you shove up our ass 24/7 could turn into 5or 6 million.

I don;t even like Aion and im kinda excited that its doing well.

 

The only reason wow has 11.5 million subscribers is due to the weakness of the rest of the market.  Nothing more.  Most of your other claims are just bile filled rhetoric.  Calling people fanbots just makes you look petty.

If another game comes along and steals a large portion of the market it will be long over due.  The mmo market needs more games that can compete and show developers not to release half finished garbage.  There is no reason one game should dominate the entire market like warcraft does, but the reasons why it does are pretty obvious.

I am all for competition in the market, because in the end we will all win if companies have to step up their game to earn our subscription dollars.  Bring it on I say.

 

What weakness of the market? WoW is an average game. Please don't think more subs equal a better game.

We've been through this time and time again. We all know WoW is a basic average MMO.

Even fans of the game admit that WoW does everything decently so it appeals to everyone. It's not a MMO targetted at a niche market.

hell if other games have a weakness its that they decided to be excellent in a certain feature instead of a bland average MMO across the board.

I like high quality pvp games so a game like WoW is complete garbage for me. Same goes for a person that likes good crafting or challenging pve.

 

 

How much of wow's content did you complete exactly?

I was a MT on Gilneas NA server, Full Tier 3 with my thunderfury and HW with my Orc Hunter. TBC I completed Raid content through BT on my Holy pally and First two sets of my gladiator armor on my MS build warrior (left a couple months when sunwell released).  

My brother Owns WotLK and lives in my home. I've patially leveled his resto shaman and ran near all dungeons and Baby Naxx.

His shaman is his second character he raids with a rouge also on gilneas NA server I've Dpsed in his raids for him on nights when his boss kept him late at work (he doesn;t want to lose his raid spot).

 

Bro trust me I do not bash MMOs I havent played.

 

Why did you play the game for so many years if it was complete garbage? It must have had some redeeming factors or you would not have played it.

not true at all. blizzard turned WoW into garbage. I really enjoyed raiding and I could deal with the average pvp as long as I had my brother to yell at.  Blizzard messed up my pally, made 5 man dungeons and tanking Ezmode (AOE fests) continue to balance WoW due to lame pvp and ruining Dps builds in pve.

I personally Should have left during vanilla WoW when blizzard destroyed a great 40 man raid system to cater to newbs but I stayed because of my brother.

Edit: I would also like to add that WoW stopped being my Main MMO when TBC released I am normally subbed to two-three mmos at a time. I would only log in for raids and my bros arena games.

Edit 2 I consider Current WoW my NGE.

 

"Blizzard messed up my pally"

Ahhhhh.....I understand completely now. One of the many nerfed Pallys that went to war with WOW and never fogot the slight that they endured at the hands of Blizzard.

Seriously, the Pally rage posts took over the WOW forums for weeks and many ex-Pallys have made it their lifes work to bad mouth WOW at every chance.

I now understand this posters viewpoint and his constant anti-WOW comments in nearly every post that he makes. It makes sense now.....

 

And before ya'll attack me as a WOW fanboi, I play it and *several* other games. I appreciate it for what it is ( and I admire polish and attention to detail ), just as I can appreciate DF ( good concept, bad execution, it's becoming Medevil Half-Life and I'm sad to see that it didn't live up to it's hype...bummer )

Actually they didn't nerf my paladin at all. They changed core mechanics and made it play like a different class.

Just the seal and judgement change alone destroyed my character. I signed on to play a class that was easy to learn and hard to master not some simplified class that plays like blizzard thought every pally was retarded and had to dumb him down.

Also my tanking gripe is much more severe and many people agree with me and the simple dungeons and AOE tanking changes nullifying DPs utility roles in game.

I told you guys I know what im talking about.

 

OP: im sorry for derailing the thread a bit I wont post again in this one. really sorry guys like Zorn and the other WoW fanboys drive me a bit batty.

JGM just realized he was being a troll so he is going to stop posting, Another win for the home team!

Originally posted by rello

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by Hammertime1

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by rello

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by rello

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by JGMIII

I love it for years we've been saying WoW isn't as big due to its Asia Sub numbers (we don;t count them tbh)

All the fanbots said that's BS and they do count.

Now that Aion is kicking the shit out of blizzard in Asia they no longer matter to the fanbots.

Seriously better watch out that "11.5 million subs" crap that you shove up our ass 24/7 could turn into 5or 6 million.

I don;t even like Aion and im kinda excited that its doing well.

 

The only reason wow has 11.5 million subscribers is due to the weakness of the rest of the market.  Nothing more.  Most of your other claims are just bile filled rhetoric.  Calling people fanbots just makes you look petty.

If another game comes along and steals a large portion of the market it will be long over due.  The mmo market needs more games that can compete and show developers not to release half finished garbage.  There is no reason one game should dominate the entire market like warcraft does, but the reasons why it does are pretty obvious.

I am all for competition in the market, because in the end we will all win if companies have to step up their game to earn our subscription dollars.  Bring it on I say.

 

What weakness of the market? WoW is an average game. Please don't think more subs equal a better game.

We've been through this time and time again. We all know WoW is a basic average MMO.

Even fans of the game admit that WoW does everything decently so it appeals to everyone. It's not a MMO targetted at a niche market.

hell if other games have a weakness its that they decided to be excellent in a certain feature instead of a bland average MMO across the board.

I like high quality pvp games so a game like WoW is complete garbage for me. Same goes for a person that likes good crafting or challenging pve.

 

 

How much of wow's content did you complete exactly?

I was a MT on Gilneas NA server, Full Tier 3 with my thunderfury and HW with my Orc Hunter. TBC I completed Raid content through BT on my Holy pally and First two sets of my gladiator armor on my MS build warrior (left a couple months when sunwell released).  

My brother Owns WotLK and lives in my home. I've patially leveled his resto shaman and ran near all dungeons and Baby Naxx.

His shaman is his second character he raids with a rouge also on gilneas NA server I've Dpsed in his raids for him on nights when his boss kept him late at work (he doesn;t want to lose his raid spot).

 

Bro trust me I do not bash MMOs I havent played.

 

Why did you play the game for so many years if it was complete garbage? It must have had some redeeming factors or you would not have played it.

not true at all. blizzard turned WoW into garbage. I really enjoyed raiding and I could deal with the average pvp as long as I had my brother to yell at.  Blizzard messed up my pally, made 5 man dungeons and tanking Ezmode (AOE fests) continue to balance WoW due to lame pvp and ruining Dps builds in pve.

I personally Should have left during vanilla WoW when blizzard destroyed a great 40 man raid system to cater to newbs but I stayed because of my brother.

Edit: I would also like to add that WoW stopped being my Main MMO when TBC released I am normally subbed to two-three mmos at a time. I would only log in for raids and my bros arena games.

Edit 2 I consider Current WoW my NGE.

 

"Blizzard messed up my pally"

Ahhhhh.....I understand completely now. One of the many nerfed Pallys that went to war with WOW and never fogot the slight that they endured at the hands of Blizzard.

Seriously, the Pally rage posts took over the WOW forums for weeks and many ex-Pallys have made it their lifes work to bad mouth WOW at every chance.

I now understand this posters viewpoint and his constant anti-WOW comments in nearly every post that he makes. It makes sense now.....

 

And before ya'll attack me as a WOW fanboi, I play it and *several* other games. I appreciate it for what it is ( and I admire polish and attention to detail ), just as I can appreciate DF ( good concept, bad execution, it's becoming Medevil Half-Life and I'm sad to see that it didn't live up to it's hype...bummer )

Actually they didn't nerf my paladin at all. They changed core mechanics and made it play like a different class.

Just the seal and judgement change alone destroyed my character. I signed on to play a class that was easy to learn and hard to master not some simplified class that plays like blizzard thought every pally was retarded and had to dumb him down.

Also my tanking gripe is much more severe and many people agree with me and the simple dungeons and AOE tanking changes nullifying DPs utility roles in game.

I told you guys I know what im talking about.

 

OP: im sorry for derailing the thread a bit I wont post again in this one. really sorry guys like Zorn and the other WoW fanboys drive me a bit batty.

JGM just realized he was being a troll so he is going to stop posting, Another win for the home team!

<Off topic>Answering a derail when a question is directed at me is not being a troll ( I didnt start the derail). are you new to MMO forums.

Again OP im sorry, to stay on Topic I will add a bit the the thread. <off topic>

<on topic> I agree Blizzard is starting to mess up in ASia and if they don;t watch it Aion will destroy them since it seems to be a quality game and not a L2 grinder like the haters seem to think.

It could very well be that Aion will gain an advantage in Asia for the time being, but we would be silly not to think that Blizzard will be hellbent on launching their own successor to the crown of the mmorpg world.

Games like Aion and SW:TOR might be big the coming two years or so, but WOW will still be a force to be reckoned with, untill Blizzard chooses to assimilate us all with their new title, that is.

In that sense the million dollar question is ofcourse; Will they go for an additional mmorpg with additional target groups and plan to keep WOW updated for many years to come, or is the new game intended to be a WOW 2.0 (not in IP, but in giving their current customers a brand new toy)?

Edit your quote spam! Science damn you!

Originally posted by Frostbite05

heh been a while since someone completely blew a minor dispute outta proportion like this. First off no nothing is going to happen. At most blizzard will end up apologizing and paying a decent sum of money and that ends that. Secondly, Aion will only do well in Asia because well its an Asian Grinder in the same style as Lineage II.

You're an idiot.

That's all I'm saying to people who make statements like this anymore.

Do you think Blizzard is dumb or something?

Humans are capable of failing. It's in our blood.

Please dont tell me blizzard is managed by cyborgs :<

Originally posted by wootforwow

Show me where it says over half of WoWs popualtion is in china.

Well, this is a little out of date and not sure if its been answered yet, but here's proof that roughly half of WOW's playerbase is, in fact, Chinese.

http://eu.blizzard.com/en/press/080122.html

Though that still doesn't invalidate the fact that the game still has roughly 5 million players elsewhere at this point.

Edit: Crud, beaten to it 5 pages ago.

Originally posted by JGMIII

What weakness of the market? WoW is an average game. Please don't think more subs equal a better game.

We've been through this time and time again. We all know WoW is a basic average MMO.

Even fans of the game admit that WoW does everything decently so it appeals to everyone. It's not a MMO targetted at a niche market.

hell if other games have a weakness its that they decided to be excellent in a certain feature instead of a bland average MMO across the board.

I like high quality pvp games so a game like WoW is complete garbage for me. Same goes for a person that likes good crafting or challenging pve.

 

 

Here we go with you speaking on behalf of everyone again.  Yeah yeah yeah... We all agree with you. 

The mmo market is an even playing field where any game can succeed of fail on its own merits.  If wow is so bland and other mmos are so great, then more people would play them.  It is just as simple as that.  There are no secret mmos that are kept away from prospective players and millions of people are not incapable of enjoying a better game and somehow intentionally choose to avoid in favor of something bland.  I bet you more people quit wow every month than most games have in total population and they are looking for a new game to play .  The fact that other games can't even capitalize on the churn of wow players looking for a new game says something. 

So yes I can feel confident that the market is very weak and one game is dominating, which is pretty clear if you look at it objectively.  No matter how much wow doesn't cater to you and you prefer other games.

Trust me, that isn't something that makes me happy.  It is a sad reality of the gaming market right now.  Hopefully that will change, but it doesn't change the how and why of things as they are now.

Originally posted by JGMIII

What weakness of the market? WoW is an average game. Please don't think more subs equal a better game.

We've been through this time and time again. We all know WoW is a basic average MMO.

Even fans of the game admit that WoW does everything decently so it appeals to everyone. It's not a MMO targetted at a niche market.

hell if other games have a weakness its that they decided to be excellent in a certain feature instead of a bland average MMO across the board.

I like high quality pvp games so a game like WoW is complete garbage for me. Same goes for a person that likes good crafting or challenging pve.

 

 

 

Is that self contradictory?

Other games are good b/c they only excel in one area and sux elsewhere.  You go to a restaurant and eat b/c the fork looks shiny but the food sux and the restaurant stinks.  Oh yeah that is your taste, that is why no one agrees with you.

Blizz is not the best in every aspect?  What does it mean?  It means you are silly, you think there is one solution that is best is all aspects?  Oh that is your level of intelligence, that is why no one agrees with you.

What you are saying is Blizz does a good all rounded job, others specialise.  At the end, Blizz has a wider appeal.  Don't we all know that already?  Do you need such a dramatic and yet all wrong way of repeating this general consensus?

To the OP:

Its not yet a settled case, too much unknown and too much still in progress.

China is a different market.  You already pointed out that players pay by hours online.  That means players can sub to 2 games at a time without losses.  Unlike monthly sub.  Monthly sub to 2 games means "losses" to some of us, as we want to maximise the time use of a monthly sub.  Sub by hours?  You can play each game at a time, at your pace.  What does that mean?  Successful Aion launch in China might not crowd out WoW in the same proportion.  1m extra Aion =/= 1 million less WoW.  Both are quality games, both worth playing.  I will sub to both, monthly, when NA Aion comes out.

WoW has a solid root in China, and Wotlk will rekindle the Chinese gamers.  Aion has appeal as a new game, with the element of novelty, and of course a quality game.  It is healthy for gamer and market, for the two to compete.  Why not?

#1 anyone that says that more than half or a little less of WOW's subscribers aren't in ASIA are delusional, the facts are there..... so that should be a dead issue.

#2 Yah WOW knows what's going on with Aion and it's soon release in the USA and NCsoft is a monster when it comes to these kind of games.  

WOW is hoping to counter with their new MMO though I think WOW is coming late to the table.  There are 3 MMO's that Blizzard has it's eyes on right now.  

First lets talk about the MMO franchise of Guild Wars with a massive subscriber base.  Yah its F2P and people will probably buy it and  play it for free and still pay for another service like WOW or EQ or whatever else but the fact that Guild Wars 2  will be revamped with more player control and a persistent areas  might make it enticing enough to just leave Pay per use MMO's  alone (atleast for me)

Second Aion, beautiful game made by NCsoft who doesn't disappoint.  MMORPG gamers can't afford 2 or 3 accounts, we like to have one good account and I for one would like to pick Aion over WOW anyday.   IS Aion going to destroy WOW, probably not, but together with Guild Wars 2 and not to mention Old Republic,  WOW will take its lumps and bruises pretty hard.   

I know I already talked a bit about Old Republic, but really EA is gonna hit a homerun with this game, the only way they could screw this up is if they stick their toes and fingers where they don't belong and that is in Bioware's face.  Just Stayyyyyy away from Bioware EA and all should be fine.  And, don't get too cocky with your pricing schemes Old Republic won't be the only good MMO out  when the time comes, believe me.

Anyways good read thanks

 When the Western Roman Empire fell, it was split into multiple areas.  Eastern Rome remained, but only a fragment of the great empire it once was.  So it will be with WoW.  If WoW loses its eastern subs, then the West will remain and it will keep a very large, very steady subscriber base.  At the same time, what are the odds really of that happening?  Activision Blizzard will certainly not allow it, and would pay an incredible amount of money to whoever is asking for the check.

And to respond to someone's comment about WoW-Fanboys flocking, I think that the WoW-haters are worse than the fanboys.  I am neither, because I enjoyed my time with WoW but understand it is not the game for me, and can accept that people like it.  The only thing I don't like is that most new MMO games don't get enough subs to survive now, but I still don't care because a game should be good enough now, with technology six years down the road and experience, to top it.

the main problem with new mmo's is not being inovative or amazing graphics its having a decent IP to build your game around, if your background story is garbage or your classes such then no matter of fancy graphics or amazing story will save your game.

WOW succeeds because its consistant with its story and IP its also very friendly to new players and thats why it works.

Im amazed people still play gaming by numbers... I mean... WoW.  Aion wont kill WoW, sadly, being that Aion is another grind fest, just a very, very, pretty grind fest.

More than likely, Blizzards new MMO will kill WoW, and hopefully it wont be a huge waste of time... like WoW, or Aion.

( P.S. Posting a screen shot in an orient language is pretty much pointless you realize. )

Originally posted by giggal

the main problem with new mmo's is not being inovative or amazing graphics its having a decent IP to build your game around, if your background story is garbage or your classes such then no matter of fancy graphics or amazing story will save your game.

WOW succeeds because its consistant with its story and IP its also very friendly to new players and thats why it works.

Nah. Having an existing IP is just a vehicle for a bigger hype and an existing roadmap for developers to fill in certain aspects of a game like lore, world, npc's, etcetera. Which can also be done right without an existing IP. Look at all the games with great IP's and how they didn't got anywhere close to WOW's sub numbers ... AOC, WAR, etc. It helps to have a great IP but it won't decide whether it will be a success on its own.

The amount of success to a mmorpg is based on many, many more factors.

To name a few;

- The "easy to learn, hard to master" law.

- Long term gameplay values.

- Diversity of content (does the game appeal to all kinds of mmorpg players?) And the amount of 'choice' players have in how they fill in their gaming hours.

- Level of immersion players experience in general and in regard to their characters.

- The appeal there is for players to work on completing the game's meta-targets. And having a wide enough range of those in every available aspect of the game.

- The amount of fun and excitement to combat in general.

- The amount in which a game allows players to specialize, customize and feel 'unique'.

- The amount of stability and polish of the game.

- The amount of faith people have in the developer/publisher combo.

- The amount in which the game promotes social interaction between players.

Face it every one claims that any game with a big hype will "kill" wow but guess what never happens. WoW doesint have 11million peope for no reason. Even if Aion does become big it wont kill wow it will just be another decent game on the market that couple 100 thousand ppl will play. Imo the only thing that will ever top WoW is the next big game blizzard makes. Also im not a WoW fanbio in fact ive only played WoW for 2 months then quit. But in those few months it was easy to see how polished the gameplay was. No game can be perfect and make every single whiny ass person happy but WoW sure is close.

Originally posted by archerzz

Face it every one claims that any game with a big hype will "kill" wow but guess what never happens. WoW doesint have 11million peope for no reason. Even if Aion does become big it wont kill wow it will just be another decent game on the market that couple 100 thousand ppl will play. Imo the only thing that will ever top WoW is the next big game blizzard makes. Also im not a WoW fanbio in fact ive only played WoW for 2 months then quit. But in those few months it was easy to see how polished the gameplay was. No game can be perfect and make every single whiny ass person happy but WoW sure is close.

A couple hundred thousand? Aion already has 3.5 million subscribers.

 What is Aions definition of subscriber?

Originally posted by Nedax

While I don't think Blizzard will settle with being banned from China and losing subscriptions, I can see why they're moving to Aion (not because it's a "grinder" it's amazing). This thread should be interesting to see how many WoW fanboys come to its defense. They already seem to be cropping up.

Actually it's more interesting to see the battle between the old crew fanboys and the new kid on the block ones if anything.

Why anyone cares about who's #1 is beyond me but I'll admit it makes good theatre.  Never gets old...never...