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5/28/09 4:39:17 PM#61
Originally posted by JGMIII
Because it's easy to please pvpers, add decent combat and give players a reason to fight like intanced pvp or some world pvp objective and they bash eachothers faces in for months. It's much harder to please the pve guys that rush through all content right to the buggy untested endgame and bitch about it lacking content and stuff like that. People that care about shit like quests and pve progression far outwieght those that enjoy pvp (which sucks for someone like me). because of this most quick first looks focus on pve stuff. I tend to disagree that instanced pvp is favorable, the more open the better, I'd think, but purpose, absolutely. Having experienced the poor impressions and lack of immersion and limiting nature i came away with about instanced pvp in potbs and war, i'd rather not see it instanced. |
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5/28/09 4:39:19 PM#62
I think the only things that kind of bother me so far about the game are the words "instance" being so prevalent and the term PvP being pretty non-existent in the reviews and previews of the game. I agree with whoever mentioned it, that heavy instance games just keep people from playing together in groups. Fine for a solo player, but then why are you playing an MMO if you only want to play solo anyway? Kinda defeats the purpose of playing with other people, doesn't it? Pretty much the same with PvP. What's the point of playing with thousands of other people if you can't test your character against theirs? I know *I* for one don't want to play a game to "bunny bash" for months so I can claim I'm the best bunny-basher around. Wheee, look at me. I killed a cow. |
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5/28/09 5:04:50 PM#63
Originally posted by Yamota
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP. Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. |
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5/28/09 5:06:20 PM#64
Originally posted by Nightbringe1
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up |
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5/28/09 5:24:01 PM#65
Originally posted by Yamota Can you base some study/ proof or the such to back up your claim that PVP "is one of the biggest aspects of MMORPG"s"? Or are you just posting your opinion as fact?
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5/28/09 5:24:19 PM#66
Originally posted by qbangy32
Actually, the did stay on with the CoH for quite a while before moving on. As they developed it, they did bring it to the market . How could it get to the market without being created? You are right, they did not "market" the game. They abandoned/sold out of CoH because they thought that they were going to be part of something bigger - a Marvel Online game. As far as I can decern, when Marvel dropped the idea of releasing an MMORPG, Cryptic had to do something to do with the work that they had already done. (if someone else has inside info on this, I would be glad to hear it) Too bad that work had nothing to do with the excelent gaming system which is Champions the RPG. I think to some extent Cryptic has begun to realize what some people expect when the Champions name is stuck on something. Cryptic created CoH left it to try to make more money doing something else rather than supporting CoX (I guess they thought it would flop without them?) and have made a mockery of Champions RPG as far as I'm concerned. If it really was Champoins the RPG online, I would be here backing it like crazy. Be the fire! Stop staring at it! |
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5/28/09 5:49:19 PM#67
Originally posted by racasdorph
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. |
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5/28/09 5:51:04 PM#68
Originally posted by Nightbringe1
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
I would recommend starting with Step #4, as it will make steps 1, 2, and 3 significantly less difficult. |
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maskedweasel
 Tipster
Joined: 9/24/07
"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane." |
5/28/09 6:12:03 PM#69
Originally posted by racasdorph
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
Personally, I enjoy PvP ONLY if its good PvP. CoX was not good PvP, whereas I felt guildwars and Warhammer had good PvP. CoX didn't originally have PvP in mind and it was thrown in... and you can clearly tell it was thrown in. After the launch of CoV there were many powerset balance problems which most games have, but I feel CoX's were self imposed. They tried to play the "balance" game, which CO just won't be doing. They stated there will be some powersets that are just more powerful then others, but there won't be a single "Ultimate build"
More questions answered (As best as I can): JGMIII "Well it was a limited hands on. Maybe pvp doesn't come into play until later levels." Supposedly you can level pretty much from start to finish through PvP in arenas and so forth. They leave it as the players option, although I'm not sure if testers, or how many testers, would play this way as the game is Primarily a PvE game. I would also imagine Cryptic would rather players test the vast levels and missions while testing rather then spend their whole time in PvP-centric areas. Reno0513 "I agree with whoever mentioned it, that heavy instance games just keep people from playing together in groups. Fine for a solo player, but then why are you playing an MMO if you only want to play solo anyway? Kinda defeats the purpose of playing with other people, doesn't it?" I won't lie in saying that everything I've heard so far about this game has made me happy. There are a number of issues I've found with this game just by reading dev posts, blogs, and leaked player experiences. What I will tell you as far as instances go, from what I'm to understand, not every world is "instanced" so much as "zoned" The difference being that a game like guildwars would be instanced, where a game like CoH would be "zoned" Now the zones have been said to be huge enough and have so much content that you could potentially level from 1 - max level (40) without leaving that zone. Dr.Rock What I really want to know is can you jump out of the way of a thrown or fired projectile if you are fast enough, as I am sick to death of simple LoS checks and homing projectiles. Without this a bit of twitch in positioning or blocking will still leave ranged fighters limited, as their mobility and ability to take cover are effectively ignored. Not sure I could play a MMO still limited by the CoX being shot through a wall scenario From what I'm to understand the game uses LoS checks (line of sight) as you mention, but to what degree is yet to be confirmed. For example, could hiding behind a larger teammate make him the target instead of you? Hmm, I'm not sure, but this is definitely a question to be answered by a developer, or something to wait on when the NDA has lifted. I can say from what I'm to believe, the LoS has been severely tightened so it plays more like a TPS then the old CoH. As far as dodge and blocks, you are inherently given those powers from your power sets. Maybe it calculates positioning plus skill or maybe not. I'm not sure. I can tell you that you can mix and match defensive powers such as Regeneration/Super Reflexes which may help some and make some fights more interesting. Dis_Ordur "What I want to know is whether or not the zones are wide open. Can anyone elaborate?" I answered this partially above, about the size of each zone. The zones are said to be immense, each zone allowing you to use the full extent of your travel powers. However, there will still be a transit system to move from zone A to zone B, as the zones themselves are all over the place. First you might be in Lemuria (under water) or be in the Canadian Wilderness, so you won't see Zones like.. "chunks" in vanguard or anything like that. Now will there be a long loading screen between which? That I can't answer right now. Hope that helps!
"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"
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5/28/09 7:48:10 PM#70
Originally posted by maskedweasel
I don't have anything against games being designed for PvP play, to each his own. Champions is not, however, being touted as having a pvp focus. It seems to be very much focused on PvE, with acknowlegements made from the begining that the classes are not balanced for PvP. As such, I have no expectation of the game being reviewed from a PvP standpoint. I responded as I did to the individual blasting the review as he seems to be under the impression that PvP should be treated as a central aspect of all games, even those not promoting themselves as primarily PvP. Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. |
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5/28/09 8:21:09 PM#71
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
So CO is not twitch based but it does depend on you mashing the right button or shoving the joystick the right way at the right instant in time. That's like saying, "I didn't drive home from work in a car, I drove home in a motorized 4 wheeled vehicle smaller than a truck and SUV. But don't call it a car!" What you describe in your second paragraph fits the definition of a twitch based game; the timing of when you do things matters more here than non-twitch games. |
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5/28/09 8:27:16 PM#72
Originally posted by WereTech
Here here! Champions is a great system and their 5th edition setting is better than most game settings I've experienced. What Cryptic is doing is just WRONG. It's like when you're a kid and your mother tells you to let the new kid down the street (you know the one who's 10 years old, drools and still wears diapers, and whos house is strangely empty of pets) play with your new toy then watch him slam it against the wall as hard as he can until it breaks into 3 pieces. And you're the one in trouble for making him cry. |
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5/28/09 9:48:52 PM#73
Originally posted by Shreddi
Cant you use 2nd build or respec? Respec gives you a good amount of money for unused enhancements. Sorry to hear your experience. I love cox. This game will probably be very similar.
Good of you to check that out actually, thanks for the thought. The game just changed too much for me with the removal of travel powers in the PvP zones. You know, superjumpers can't superjump, teleporters can't teleport, superspeed powers are no longer super fast--and all the enhancement sets in those powers are now junk, after working a long time to get them. That and how they brought in diminshing returns for heals, buffs and enhancement sets. It's just a different game as a result, and not one that I enjoy. I tried respecing, but couldn't get into the completely different gameplay. It's just not for me. Glad you like it though. I had some really good times. That said, this game might give me a chance to start fresh with a superhero MMO. I'd really like to try that out :) I hope Cryptic will shy away from massive revamps to a live game, but time will tell I guess. I'll enjoy the ride while I find it entertaining, and then get off if it stops being fun. |
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5/28/09 10:02:26 PM#74
Originally posted by WereTech
Well tbh, graphic novels only very recently have become collections of comic book series. You know so that the comic company can sell the same stuff twice in a different package. Until this recent marketting trend, graphic novels were another genre; in my view with superior art. Some of these still exist mind you. The 300 graphic novel might be an example of the kind of comparison the review is making. That's just badass art, with a badass story based on an amazing historical event. Also, I don't see Cryptic bad-mouthing CoX, as you suggest. I see someone else (not Cryptic) writing a review. The different nature of the graphics between CoX and Champions online is pretty obvious I think. They're very different. At this point, I'm not sure which one I prefer, but I want to give the new game a try. That said, I enjoyed CoX for three years. Cryptic did some excellent work in that game, and it's still there. A lot of the now NCsoft staff were with Cryptic too I believe. Tbh, I think competition in the superhero genre is a good thing. NCsoft, Cryptic and SOE are going to have to compete for our patronage. Hopefully they'll feel inclined to bring their A-game to the table. If one of these companies puts out garbage, or treats their players poorly, gamers will have some other options. I like that. Choice is good. |
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5/28/09 10:17:40 PM#75
I did not read the whole article because I don't have time... but i plan to soon.
I just want to say I am very excited for CO. |
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maskedweasel
Tipster
Joined: 9/24/07
"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane." |
5/28/09 11:21:21 PM#76
Originally posted by Nightbringe1
I don't have anything against games being designed for PvP play, to each his own. Champions is not, however, being touted as having a pvp focus. It seems to be very much focused on PvE, with acknowlegements made from the begining that the classes are not balanced for PvP. As such, I have no expectation of the game being reviewed from a PvP standpoint. I responded as I did to the individual blasting the review as he seems to be under the impression that PvP should be treated as a central aspect of all games, even those not promoting themselves as primarily PvP.
I agree with you to an extent. PvP is not the sole purpose of many games, in fact, its a very small part of many of the games out there right now. Its been said, and I have said and believe that this was meant to be a PvE game. When I say that I don't mean that I don't plan on PvP'ing in the game. On the contrary, I actually believe that CO might be some absolutely fantastic PvP simply because, its not balanced. Personally I would love nothing more then to review the game solely on a PvP standpoint. I'd love just to test the game, and write something more in depth then I can provide here, but now is not my time. PvP is part of this game, and although its not the main focus of this game, I always like to think of PvP as that added spice that makes a game great.
"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"
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5/29/09 3:01:13 AM#77
Puuk
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5/29/09 7:27:12 AM#78
Sounds nice, I just hope they got rid of the auwfull ( imo the worst pve ever, played most mmorpgs for years ) auwfull.......... auwfull random generated 5 theme lvl system. If you played every lvl of the 5 diff theme of lvls ( cave, office, etc ) once, you played them all and was it a pure grind with sometimes a diff staircase or diff door... I still got nightmares of it :)
if they acctually putted some effort in the pve missions / quests this time I will try this one :) |
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5/29/09 10:37:48 AM#79
Originally posted by Yamota
IMO, it is an example of a good understanding of MMOs. In the short span of time that someone previews a game there is no way to realistically gauge the PVP pros, cons, or even give an accurate description of it. All you would have is the limited experience of one or two classes in a tiny level range... and probably in a controlled environment. Think fo the MMOs that you play. Now imagine a person doing a review of the gameplay, and fitting in what little they saw or experienced of PvP in the day or so of playing. Do you feel they would be able to accurately represent PvP in your game from that?
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5/29/09 10:48:24 AM#80
In response to Madeux in post #52: " And the reviewers intent was completely obvious, unless you're trolling and just looking for something to pick at. I'm all for being critical, but the negativity so often seen here is disturbing. "The reviewer said something wrong, so this game is going to suck!! Everybody run!!!!" " His clarification is exactly how I read it, FWIW. I also didn't see a negative connotation, though I can see how some would infer one.
<Edited to add what I was quoting, because I'm a doofus.> |
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