http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=191461

I think this says it very well on whats wrong with DF as a whole. I have in the past not agreed with some of the things the OP posted this however is very well written. 

FYI....Its a long post so if you dont have 5 minutes then do not bother.

Originally posted by parrotpholk

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=191461

 

I think this says it very well on whats wrong with DF as a whole. I have in the past not agreed with some of the things the OP posted this however is very well written. 

 

FYI....Its a long post so if you dont have 5 minutes then do not bother.

This time with a click link:  forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php  

Yup... I edited to add the click link to the quoted one above as well.  What can I say... it's slow at work this evening. 

Some noteable statements made in the post in the link above:

• Darkfall is awful. I knew it, I know it, and you know it.
• I clocked 786 hours of Darkfall gameplay. That doesn’t include my 3 weeks in Beta, during which I played 12+ hours every day.
  
• I’m not some random who played for 4 hours, got raped in the newbzone, and quit in a flurry of tears.
  
• Without full loot, I’m reasonably sure nobody at all would play.
  
• PvE is either exploiting or bringing an enormous quantity of people to box/focus fire something
  
• Siege warfare is lag-rape, and the political landscape is a handful of giant unskilled conglomerates plus Afghanistan.
  
• City building is a joke
  
• honestly boats and warhulks are so prohibitively expensive for the value they deliver that only the most wealthy (read: heaviest exploiters) will ever bother with them.
  
• Darkfall? Sandbox? Ultima Online is a sandbox, SW:G is a sandbox. Darkfall is dirt.
  
• The Dev team is, honestly, a group of people with good ideas and shitty execution of those ideas, headed up by a man who is frankly a reprehensible liar.
  
• To surmise, Darkfall is neither a sandbox nor a true RPG.

Interesting...

I'll re-edit again when I get a chance to read all the responses.

Heh... well I got to read 1 page of responses before it went poof. 

And poof it's gone
 
New link

I think that it's probably a good idea to copy and paste posts from the official forums because of their tendency to magically disappear.

In before [enter random fanboy here] comes and says "another WoW noob pwned"

Originally posted by heartless

I think that it's probably a good idea to copy and paste posts from the official forums because of their tendency to magically disappear.

Good call here:

IF YOU'RE GOING TO LOCK THIS THREAD (AND YOU PROBABLY ARE) TELL ME SO WE CAN AT LEAST DISCUSS IT.

Darkfall is awful. I knew it, I know it, and you know it. You can stop reading here if in your head you’re saying:
“IT’S NOT FOR EVERYONE! IT’S HARDCORE AND NOT CAREBEAR LIKE SHITTY GAMES WITH MILLIONS OF SUBS!”

Now that 95% of Forumfall are furiously drafting their 4-word rage replies, I’ll elaborate a little on my Darkfall game experience, since the default response to these threads (rather than a rational retort), is “lol nub got pwned” or “gtfo Darkfall isn’t for carebears”. Up to quitting about 2 weeks ago, I clocked 786 hours of Darkfall gameplay. That doesn’t include my 3 weeks in Beta, during which I played 12+ hours every day. There wasn’t a day that I didn’t log in, and only a handful where I wasn’t out PvP’ing for a large portion my playtime. I didn’t get “zomg facerolled”, I won the vast majority of fights I was in (50+ elemental, sharpshooter and weapon mastery is a handy combination). Yawn, nobody cares about my e-peen, yeah, I know, but the point is I’m not some random who played for 4 hours, got raped in the newbzone, and quit in a flurry of tears.

But I did stop playing. Why? Darkfall is a passable FPS mod with a few bare-bones RPG features tacked on in the grindiest incarnations I’ve ever seen. Without full loot, I’m reasonably sure nobody at all would play. Gathering is all the challenge of having the time to find somewhere quiet and click every now and then, and doesn’t create any sort of contested territories for rare resources. Crafting is an unintuitive time/resource sink, totally devoid of any semblance of player skill, individuality or genuinely worthwhile outputs. I don’t know if you’ve ever added up the materials for a Full Plate set, but it’s not pretty at all. PvE is either exploiting or bringing an enormous quantity of people to box/focus fire something (with the possible exception of the Fire Dragon, but I doubt it). Siege warfare is lag-rape, and the political landscape is a handful of giant unskilled conglomerates plus Afghanistan. City building is a joke (cannons that shoot at nothing, glaring defensive faults in some major cities), and honestly boats and warhulks are so prohibitively expensive for the value they deliver that only the most wealthy (read: heaviest exploiters) will ever bother with them. I can almost hear the cries of everyone that wanted to be in a pirate clan.

PvP is fun… When you’re not raiding cities overpopulated with attended macroers (or getting zerged 8v1 by an alliance because every time they send one or two guys to kill you, they have to cry in clan chat about how they got slammed). It’s particularly fun if you have the time to invest in Aventurine’s grotesque treadmill skill system, which primarily rewards having a lot of time to jerk off to furry erotica while your character macros (not that I would know, I manual clicked like a chump because I’m too lazy to download AutoIt). The best times I had in Darkfall were small group PvP fights with clanmates where we faced 2v1 or worse odds and ended up with more loot than we could comfortably carry. The problem was, those times were very sparse. If you’re going to have a huge, intricate world, you either have to have enough people to fill it and make it vibrant (you don’t) or you need to have areas worth fighting over other than player cities to concentrate the PvPers in those areas (none of those, either). The only places you were almost guaranteed to find other players were easily exploitable high profit spawns, camped out by nakeds with surefire escape routes, or else cities filled with yet more naked people itching to go 5v1 with an Ork in robes. The incentive to go out and look for great fights is substantially diminished when you realise it’s almost certainly going to take a few hours to get a good scrap, and some roll patrol is probably going to waste an inordinate amount of that time chasing you.

I can hear a lot of people thinking “Darkfall is a sandbox, you fool! You’re just not creative or imaginative enough to enjoy its potential!”

No. No, no, no.

Darkfall? Sandbox? Ultima Online is a sandbox, SW:G is a sandbox. Darkfall is dirt. If you go and read the FAQ for the game that Aventurine said they would be releasing (I believe the entire thing is still on the official site), you’ll read about a sandbox game. A game with features for all kinds of players, a game where opportunities to be successful according to your own goals are virtually limitless, a game that allows both small individualistic clans and larger forces that sway the political landscape to coexist within a vibrant fantasy world. A game with a crafting system that actually rewards those who dedicate themselves to it in terms of their skill as a player, rather than simply the character skill treadmill. Where PvE battles are as enthralling and challenging as their PvP counterparts, and where the environment is as deadly and foreboding as the villainous PKers who inhabit it. A game with racial warfare and unique racial traits, as well as (finally!) a meaningful alignment system. Unique characters developed by an individual’s preference, able to be adapted to changing needs and desires, rather than the homogenous master-of-all-styles that every competitive player now uses, and is encouraged to use by the limitless skill system. A game with minimal grind, where ‘learning by doing’ would be just as effective in the long run as ultra-grinding skills. That may be true in Darkfall, but “the long run” measures in years rather than a few weeks. Can you even imagine getting weapon mastery without hours and hours of unproductive swinging? I really don’t like to think about it.

The fact is that Darkfall made grand promises and delivered hollow stand-ins for those promises. It is, in essence, an FPS in an open world setting, and with lootable items. The primary difference between Darkfall and the standard shooter, aside from the obvious full-loot mechanic, is that there’s no team balancing, no real objective other than “find some other guys and rape ‘em”, and a lot more downtime between bouts of combat. Everything else is ancillary and shoddily created.

This is all stuff we’ve known since Beta.

Back in beta, a lot of people voiced the same concerns, a lot of people pushed for the game to be delayed. I was among them. The typical defence back then was “Ah, they have a totally awesome version of <shitty system>, it’s just not enabled!” No, folks. When they “turned on” weapon speed in beta, I suspect that was around about the time they actually coded it. The difference between beta and now is that back in beta I thought the Dev team would still be able to deliver - if they worked their asses off to bring us content updates and ameliorations for things like crafting. I made a post back then called “Even WoW has better craft/gathering than Darkfall”, and regrettably I must stand by that post to this day. You’re still playing beta, and you’re paying to do it. One might argue that an MMO is never finished, but Darkfall was never even release-ready.

The Dev team is, honestly, a group of people with good ideas and shitty execution of those ideas, headed up by a man who is frankly a reprehensible liar. Tasos stated shortly before release that “Mahirim four-legged running is the only feature that didn’t make release”. Nobody here can say that was anything but a bare-faced lie. The first indication that they would not only fail to provide but continue their failure for months after release came with the great pre-order fiasco and AV’s horrible handling of sales for the first 3 weeks after what we’ll tentatively call “launch”. I posted on page 2 of the now ancient account problems thread, and sent numerous e-mails and support requests to Aventurine, Brannoc, and anybody who seemed like they even might listen. I still have not received a response. Fortunately for them, I decided to just get Darkfall on a new account by playing “refreshfall” for several nights running. My rage thread (long since locked) can be found here.

I still held out hope that maybe it was just their terrible management of billing that would be a problem, and that their actual talents as developers would shine through once the game was populated and the servers were stabilized. Well, no. Aventurine have given us a few patches (that were padded out with a great deal of “we made this spell and this spell and this spell and this spell work!” never mind that they didn’t anyway, eh?) and most of them were relatively inconsequential. No overhauls of crappy systems, not a great deal actually added to the gameplay experience, and there are still a few totally glaring opportunities for players to exploit the shit out of faulty coding. The vast majority of the changes that have been lauded by witless brown-nosers are things that should never have even made it into the release client. Today’s update, particularly the “things to look forward to” section, is a prime example of the sort of exaggerated vagueness that AV have consistently failed to make good on thusfar, and it provides me with very little hope indeed for the future of this already sinking ship.

To surmise, Darkfall is neither a sandbox nor a true RPG. It is a full loot alternative to the standard FPS, but with a less accomplished combat system and an abysmal grind to go along with it, as well as far less ‘action’. It had, and still has, enormous potential, but the developers have shown themselves to be incapable of building upon that potential to bring to us the game that they sold to us for years before Darkfall’s actual release. In effect, they took a very grandiose dream and forged a borderline nightmare out of its image. Take this opportunity to deny these incompetent shysters your money. Use it instead to play a finished game, or else to drown your sorrows that such a great idea became such a shoddy product.

Feel free to flame me, I’ll flame you right back.

Signing Off,
-Hellmoob-

EDIT:not 2 mins since i copy pasted it here and it was gone from the official forums lol

 I admit I scan read it. I seem to agree with majority of ways in which darkfall is crap, but I can't help feeling all the "its not a sandbox", "its not as good as SWG/UO" mindset is not worth listening to generally because. A) they are so full of nostalgia ie "old UO, those were the days did you play on wicana server I was a famous crafter you see" that they will NEVER like any new mmo. B) they probably too old for FPS games, too used to auto attack. its nothing to do with "hardcore" its just a style of gameplay.

Damn it was actually a really good post too. The flame ones stay up while the quality ones go poof. This is why DF is so very full of fail

Edit: thanks for posting it ego

Not doubting the guy has played 700+ that's probably what made it harder to take when he and his clan got their collective arses handed to them lol.

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Damn it was actually a really good post too. The flame ones stay up while the quality ones go poof. This is why DF is so very full of fail

 

Edit: thanks for posting it ego

Yes thanks!

We will see how long it lasts here. 

heh, unmoderated.info is awesomeness incarnate. I love it when nannystate-mods are defeated like that.

How does that site work? Do people post threads to it or does it scan forums in real-time?

EDIT - Nevermind...I wasnt paying attention. It was copy/pasted. Thats still a great idea though...I hate it when mods delete posts for petty reasons.

Originally posted by R4WkU5

Not doubting the guy has played 700+ that's probably what made it harder to take when he and his clan got their collective arses handed to them lol.

So are you saying the stuff he posted was incorrect? 

I didn't get a chance to read all the responses to his OP on the official boards, but that seemed to be the gist of them there as well.

They weren't discussing that his points were wrong... on the contrary... there seemed to be a lot of people agreeing with him on his points.  The main thing from those that didn't agree with him was making fun of his clan getting beaten.  Fair enough if he was from an opposing clan I suppose.

Not sure how making fun of him and his clan negates his points though...  

After reading the full post, I have to agree with the subject line; this is probably the most articulate "exit interview" I've ever read for an MMO. He actually explained in detail what he didnt like and why he was leaving. He actually knew how to spell and resisted the urge to use five billion exclamation points.

It does suck. I was really really looking forward to this game. Ah well. On to Champions Online...

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Damn it was actually a really good post too. The flame ones stay up while the quality ones go poof. This is why DF is so very full of fail

 

Edit: thanks for posting it ego

Yes thanks!

 

We will see how long it lasts here. 

Well thanks to the link zymurgeist posted (which works fine btw) showing it's definetely out there i think it's it's safe to assume that it will at least outlive the one from Forumfall and Hellmoobs 20' of writting it weren't a complete waste

Good post, nice read..

and thanks for copy/pasteing it... +1

I would get bored of any game that I played for 12 hours a day constantly seriously. I've done it before and nearly a month and I get bored because I have experienced all the features of the game too much.

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by parrotpholk

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=191461

 

I think this says it very well on whats wrong with DF as a whole. I have in the past not agreed with some of the things the OP posted this however is very well written. 

 

FYI....Its a long post so if you dont have 5 minutes then do not bother.

 

This time with a click link:  forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php  

Yup... I edited to add the click link to the quoted one above as well.  What can I say... it's slow at work this evening. 

 

Some noteable statements made in the post in the link above:

• Darkfall is awful. I knew it, I know it, and you know it.  Is this the best you can say without substantiation as to why?  Weak opinion to say the least. Not so much unlike me saying, i dont like chocolate, i knew it, i know it, and you know it. That is not a notable point without substantiation as to why.
• I clocked 786 hours of Darkfall gameplay. That doesn’t include my 3 weeks in Beta, during which I played 12+ hours every day.  Clocking gameplay doesnt mean anything.  If your going make a notable point, please make a point worth noting.
  
• I’m not some random who played for 4 hours, got raped in the newbzone, and quit in a flurry of tears.  No one knows anything more about the notable point by accentuating some anonymous persons personal opinion of themself....again, not a notable point
  
• Without full loot, I’m reasonably sure nobody at all would play. Why. The thought of substantiating this statement is completely missing.  Not much different than me saying, without rainbow sprinkles, im sure no one would eat chocolate ice cream.
  
• PvE is either exploiting or bringing an enormous quantity of people to box/focus fire something. Regarding its relativeness to the subjectmatter, I'd say that this this not representative of Darkfall PvE, though it is a highly player-centric ecosystem where players rather then predictable npc mobs that are computer controlled to contribute to a more whack-a-mole centric game, drive the environment.  When players to engage the computer coded mobs, those mobs are as responsive ai as in most mmo's today.  I do wish the PvE mobs were more environmentally intelligent and contributed to environmental game-play and risk a little more than they do, but then again, this is not a PvE centric game to say the least.
  
• Siege warfare is lag-rape, and the political landscape is a handful of giant unskilled conglomerates plus Afghanistan. Not really at all quite correct, but there is some truth to some of it.  Firstly, there are absolutely more downward adjustments to video and sound game-play that needs to be controlled by the player in DF when engaging in a siege where there are hundreds of players localized at the same time.  As with any mmo, most players still need to make system adjustments when there are hundred playing localized at the same time.  But as with DF, those scenarios dont occur nearly as frequently as the skirmish or 'teens' of players that combat or play collectively at the same time, and locally, where the game runs very smoothly at higher settings.  Secondly, this game does highly depend on player-influenced diplomacy and participation.  I happen to think that the with the finite size of the world and finite number of players participating, it does lend itself to a short shelf-life in some respects.
  
• City building is a joke.  No its not.
  
• honestly boats and warhulks are so prohibitively expensive for the value they deliver that only the most wealthy (read: heaviest exploiters) will ever bother with them. So, now winners are exploiters?  Not only is that completely false, aside from AV addressing exploiters as do any dev's of many mmo's, that ability to bring a WH to a siege didn't result in a win for one alliance that alliance brought it to a recent siege and ended up losing the siege they initiated.
  
• Darkfall? Sandbox? Ultima Online is a sandbox, SW:G is a sandbox. Darkfall is dirt. Neither UO or SW:G are sandboxes, first of all.  Secondly, the term has been so misused for so long, that every person has their own personal spin on what it means.
  
• The Dev team is, honestly, a group of people with good ideas and shitty execution of those ideas, headed up by a man who is frankly a reprehensible liar. I'm not a big fan of AV at all.  This is an indy group of non-big company professionals that threw out a great idea, true; crappy execution, true, but offers more today where players controll the landscape, story, and game-play than one would gain with any of the other PvE centric games (Not so much EvE) .  It is still a work-in-process, and actually has more to offer than AoC when it launched miserably and failed, and WAR, imho, which offers nothing more than glorified player against players in the same scenarios over and over and over again, and where the RvR is nothing more than a dulldrom of one game-coded teathered group against another. I happen to like more player-influence games and this is the best I can find at the time.
  
• To surmise, Darkfall is neither a sandbox nor a true RPG. Again, if its a sandbox you want, go to home depot, if its a story-line scripted rpg, go to LotRO.  Players controll their roles in DF and their roles are team-centric where you can develop as many character-types as you can in most other mmo's, but the development is not restricted to your race as with most other mmos.
  

 

Interesting...

I'll re-edit again when I get a chance to read all the responses.

Heh... well I got to read 1 page of responses before it went poof. 

 

 

Just some objective response from, well, me.

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by parrotpholk

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=191461

 

I think this says it very well on whats wrong with DF as a whole. I have in the past not agreed with some of the things the OP posted this however is very well written. 

 

FYI....Its a long post so if you dont have 5 minutes then do not bother.

 

This time with a click link:  forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php  

Yup... I edited to add the click link to the quoted one above as well.  What can I say... it's slow at work this evening. 

 

Some noteable statements made in the post in the link above:

• Darkfall is awful. I knew it, I know it, and you know it.  Is this the best you can say without substantiation as to why?  Weak opinion to say the least. Not so much unlike me saying, i dont like chocolate, i knew it, i know it, and you know it. That is not a notable point without substantiation as to why.
• I clocked 786 hours of Darkfall gameplay. That doesn’t include my 3 weeks in Beta, during which I played 12+ hours every day.  Clocking gameplay doesnt mean anything.  If your going make a notable point, please make a point worth noting.
  
• I’m not some random who played for 4 hours, got raped in the newbzone, and quit in a flurry of tears.  No one knows anything more about the notable point by accentuating some anonymous persons personal opinion of themself....again, not a notable point
  
• Without full loot, I’m reasonably sure nobody at all would play. Why. The thought of substantiating this statement is completely missing.  Not much different than me saying, without rainbow sprinkles, im sure no one would eat chocolate ice cream.
  
• PvE is either exploiting or bringing an enormous quantity of people to box/focus fire something. Regarding its relativeness to the subjectmatter, I'd say that this this not representative of Darkfall PvE, though it is a highly player-centric ecosystem where players rather then predictable npc mobs that are computer controlled to contribute to a more whack-a-mole centric game, drive the environment.  When players to engage the computer coded mobs, those mobs are as responsive ai as in most mmo's today.  I do wish the PvE mobs were more environmentally intelligent and contributed to environmental game-play and risk a little more than they do, but then again, this is not a PvE centric game to say the least.
  
• Siege warfare is lag-rape, and the political landscape is a handful of giant unskilled conglomerates plus Afghanistan. Not really at all quite correct, but there is some truth to some of it.  Firstly, there are absolutely more downward adjustments to video and sound game-play that needs to be controlled by the player in DF when engaging in a siege where there are hundreds of players localized at the same time.  As with any mmo, most players still need to make system adjustments when there are hundred playing localized at the same time.  But as with DF, those scenarios dont occur nearly as frequently as the skirmish or 'teens' of players that combat or play collectively at the same time, and locally, where the game runs very smoothly at higher settings.  Secondly, this game does highly depend on player-influenced diplomacy and participation.  I happen to think that the with the finite size of the world and finite number of players participating, it does lend itself to a short shelf-life in some respects.
  
• City building is a joke.  No its not.
  
• honestly boats and warhulks are so prohibitively expensive for the value they deliver that only the most wealthy (read: heaviest exploiters) will ever bother with them. So, now winners are exploiters?  Not only is that completely false, aside from AV addressing exploiters as do any dev's of many mmo's, that ability to bring a WH to a siege didn't result in a win for one alliance that alliance brought it to a recent siege and ended up losing the siege they initiated.
  
• Darkfall? Sandbox? Ultima Online is a sandbox, SW:G is a sandbox. Darkfall is dirt. Neither UO or SW:G are sandboxes, first of all.  Secondly, the term has been so misused for so long, that every person has their own personal spin on what it means.
  
• The Dev team is, honestly, a group of people with good ideas and shitty execution of those ideas, headed up by a man who is frankly a reprehensible liar. I'm not a big fan of AV at all.  This is an indy group of non-big company professionals that threw out a great idea, true; crappy execution, true, but offers more today where players controll the landscape, story, and game-play than one would gain with any of the other PvE centric games (Not so much EvE) .  It is still a work-in-process, and actually has more to offer than AoC when it launched miserably and failed, and WAR, imho, which offers nothing more than glorified player against players in the same scenarios over and over and over again, and where the RvR is nothing more than a dulldrom of one game-coded teathered group against another. I happen to like more player-influence games and this is the best I can find at the time.
  
• To surmise, Darkfall is neither a sandbox nor a true RPG. Again, if its a sandbox you want, go to home depot, if its a story-line scripted rpg, go to LotRO.  Players controll their roles in DF and their roles are team-centric where you can develop as many character-types as you can in most other mmo's, but the development is not restricted to your race as with most other mmos.
  

 

Interesting...

I'll re-edit again when I get a chance to read all the responses.

Heh... well I got to read 1 page of responses before it went poof. 

 

 

Just some objective response from, well, me.

I think that you should read the actual post, as opposed to a summary.

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by parrotpholk

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=191461

 

I think this says it very well on whats wrong with DF as a whole. I have in the past not agreed with some of the things the OP posted this however is very well written. 

 

FYI....Its a long post so if you dont have 5 minutes then do not bother.

 

This time with a click link:  forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php  

Yup... I edited to add the click link to the quoted one above as well.  What can I say... it's slow at work this evening. 

 

Some noteable statements made in the post in the link above:

 

• Darkfall is awful. I knew it, I know it, and you know it.  Is this the best you can say without substantiation as to why?  Weak opinion to say the least. Not so much unlike me saying, i dont like chocolate, i knew it, i know it, and you know it. That is not a notable point without substantiation as to why.
• I clocked 786 hours of Darkfall gameplay. That doesn’t include my 3 weeks in Beta, during which I played 12+ hours every day.  Clocking gameplay doesnt mean anything.  If your going make a notable point, please make a point worth noting.
  
• I’m not some random who played for 4 hours, got raped in the newbzone, and quit in a flurry of tears.  No one knows anything more about the notable point by accentuating some anonymous persons personal opinion of themself....again, not a notable point
  
• Without full loot, I’m reasonably sure nobody at all would play. Why. The thought of substantiating this statement is completely missing.  Not much different than me saying, without rainbow sprinkles, im sure no one would eat chocolate ice cream.
  
• PvE is either exploiting or bringing an enormous quantity of people to box/focus fire something. Regarding its relativeness to the subjectmatter, I'd say that this this not representative of Darkfall PvE, though it is a highly player-centric ecosystem where players rather then predictable npc mobs that are computer controlled to contribute to a more whack-a-mole centric game, drive the environment.  When players to engage the computer coded mobs, those mobs are as responsive ai as in most mmo's today.  I do wish the PvE mobs were more environmentally intelligent and contributed to environmental game-play and risk a little more than they do, but then again, this is not a PvE centric game to say the least.
  
• Siege warfare is lag-rape, and the political landscape is a handful of giant unskilled conglomerates plus Afghanistan. Not really at all quite correct, but there is some truth to some of it.  Firstly, there are absolutely more downward adjustments to video and sound game-play that needs to be controlled by the player in DF when engaging in a siege where there are hundreds of players localized at the same time.  As with any mmo, most players still need to make system adjustments when there are hundred playing localized at the same time.  But as with DF, those scenarios dont occur nearly as frequently as the skirmish or 'teens' of players that combat or play collectively at the same time, and locally, where the game runs very smoothly at higher settings.  Secondly, this game does highly depend on player-influenced diplomacy and participation.  I happen to think that the with the finite size of the world and finite number of players participating, it does lend itself to a short shelf-life in some respects.
  
• City building is a joke.  No its not.
  
• honestly boats and warhulks are so prohibitively expensive for the value they deliver that only the most wealthy (read: heaviest exploiters) will ever bother with them. So, now winners are exploiters?  Not only is that completely false, aside from AV addressing exploiters as do any dev's of many mmo's, that ability to bring a WH to a siege didn't result in a win for one alliance that alliance brought it to a recent siege and ended up losing the siege they initiated.
  
• Darkfall? Sandbox? Ultima Online is a sandbox, SW:G is a sandbox. Darkfall is dirt. Neither UO or SW:G are sandboxes, first of all.  Secondly, the term has been so misused for so long, that every person has their own personal spin on what it means.
  
• The Dev team is, honestly, a group of people with good ideas and shitty execution of those ideas, headed up by a man who is frankly a reprehensible liar. I'm not a big fan of AV at all.  This is an indy group of non-big company professionals that threw out a great idea, true; crappy execution, true, but offers more today where players controll the landscape, story, and game-play than one would gain with any of the other PvE centric games (Not so much EvE) .  It is still a work-in-process, and actually has more to offer than AoC when it launched miserably and failed, and WAR, imho, which offers nothing more than glorified player against players in the same scenarios over and over and over again, and where the RvR is nothing more than a dulldrom of one game-coded teathered group against another. I happen to like more player-influence games and this is the best I can find at the time.
  
• To surmise, Darkfall is neither a sandbox nor a true RPG. Again, if its a sandbox you want, go to home depot, if its a story-line scripted rpg, go to LotRO.  Players controll their roles in DF and their roles are team-centric where you can develop as many character-types as you can in most other mmo's, but the development is not restricted to your race as with most other mmos.
  

 

READ THE WHOLE THREAD
 

Interesting...

I'll re-edit again when I get a chance to read all the responses.

Heh... well I got to read 1 page of responses before it went poof. 

 

 

Just some objective response from, well, me.

Just 1 recommendation from, well, me. :)

Originally posted by jonyak

let the MMORPG.com circle jerk of hate commence.

I sometimes wonder the IQ of some of the DF players. No hate being spread actually. It was a well written post without a ton of flames as to what is wrong with DF as seen by many since in the original thread there were many who agreed with his points. Flaming the game actually doesnt work as well as well thought out posts as to shortcomings. And maybe one of these days you might have something objective to say yourself but I doubt it.