Originally posted by page

This is how I remember LOTRO from way back in beta.  I played most of it by myself, other than little groups hanging around doing the same thing as me. 

It was so frustrating to me and EVERYONE ELSE, that I was sure Turbine would have solved this after two years.  And that is why I created the original post.

Indeed they have. Of course, it's not 100%, but it's definitely not like in beta.

1. The first few books have quests made easier - you can do them with a 3 man fellowships as well.

2. Quest incentives - on high level epic FS quests there are incentives to go back and re-do them many times. Reward gear mostly, with the use of reward tokens as barter.

3. It is not Turbine directly, but partially: the population is a lot higher than beta.

Lastly - if you DO find a good kinship (albeit needs some research), you will have no issues whatsoever finding 1-2 higher level toons to help you through an FS quest - in case you are really, really stuck and you don't mind a high level helping you.

Mind you, the game is over 2 years old. I doubt you can show a 2+ yr old game where you can just find 5 other low-level players for a certain group quests out of the blue. There is no such thing anymore, not even WOW. I am talking out of experience. Almost nobody was doing 20/30 lvl raids there ever, and I plaid it 3 years ago.

DB

YES to be honest, I would do the research for a good guild as you say, In fact i could work my way around the problem, as you had with a good closed to the public guild.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 90% of players, how are they gonna work around Turbines problem, and why should they ?

This game seems to cater to two types of players,

1) The elite, in elite guilds.

2) Solo players. ( from my meny years of playing mmo's, a lot are ) 

My guess and my opinion is that this game looses the INBETWEEN, the ones that like both.  I would safely guess that would be the majority. That is where I fall in. 

 I'm tired of WoW because of the kid's,  but they have 11 million that LOTRO can have.

Originally posted by page

This game seems to cater to two types of players,

1) The elite, in elite guilds.

2) Solo players. ( from my meny years of playing mmo's, a lot are ) 

I think you just described every MMO I have ever played from UO to AoC.

Ok, I guess i'll never be able to get my personal one gripe across as long as Jackdog, and Donnie Basco, are defending everything about LOTRO 24/7.

Do you guys ever sleep :)

Originally posted by page

Ok, I guess i'll never be able to get my personal one gripe across as long as Jackdog, and Donnie Basco, are defending everything about LOTRO 24/7.

Do you guys ever sleep :)

You're blaming some people (now giving names too) of being one-sided, thus you don't actually read and comprehend what we write. My previous post stands, and as long as you haven't tried those things in the game (obviously since you had no idea about these changes), you have no credibility in entitling it just "defending". Those are facts and facts seldom need "defence".

I mentioned that not every piece of experience is 100% positive, and had many posts explaining how it it's never the same for everyone, on every server, in every region, at every level range, for every class.

Your posts sound more and more like written just for the sake of arguing only. Actually, posting in a forum of a game about explaining why you chose a different game afterall kind of speaks for itself.

Now go back to my previous comment with a neutral mindset, and this time try to be constructive.

Cheers :)

DB

P.E: how can someone have a personal gripe about a game that he haven't played for years? What makes you decide on whose personal, (thus biased in either positive or negative way) experience you believe? You have chosen the negative side based solely on comments, and then you come here broadcasting it. How would you call that kind of behaviour? It doesn't even fit into the usual troll-disguise coat, called "I just want to warn everyone".

Think about this :)

Originally posted by page

OK lets look at LOTRO from a new players perspective.  AND THAT WOULD BE ME, I like most have MMO experience, I would even have an advantage over the average new player as I'm very sociable in mmo's, and have at least beta experience.  I know beta was along time ago, so it does not count for much.  But my one gripe and it's only one, are the chain quest ( I guess for Lotro they are called Book quest ).

Scenario :

I load the game and start playing a human in their starting area, I don't know anyone.  Like everyone else that is new, I would choose to play by myself for the first 10 levels.  Picking up small unknown groups along the way to learn how to interact with groups, as the game is new for me.....Sound like most mmo's so far ?

After I get to Bree, I would now feel comfortable with the game to join a kinship, as I have the basics down.  Of coarse like all mmo's It should not be a problem finding one.  Being new, how do I decide on a good one ?.....I don't.........I ask in chat for a good guild, ones like to do things together ( same question everyone ask ). The hardcore but friendly one's that do everything together type kinship's remain silent.  I get about ten invites to  average one's and I have no choice but to pick one of them.  Only to find that other than a few jokes they really don't play together at all.........Still sound like most mmo's so far ?

I'm ok with all of the above.  Just standard stuff that comes along with all games......BUT now is where I have a problem with LOTRO The part that is unique to this game ( as most every mmo has something unique ).  Book quest or chain quest !!

I'm in Bree.  I get my first Book quest ( the claim to fame, the reason for playing Lotro ). First I nicely ask my kinship " Hay would anyone like to help me do my first book quest " silence.  I ask again in a different way, nothing !  Ok I'll ask in open chat. nothing.  I know I'll stand next to the quest giver and pick up a group that way......hay it worked, I now have a full group :) 

So were off doing the first few parts of the chain, were having a good time, all is going well.  BUT at part 4 of the first book Joe and Ann had left the group.  Were having such a good time the group scrambles to find replacements for the two.  Members are asking their guild's.  You see an advertisement in open chat " hay need two for part 4 of the first book".  Guess what..... silance...Nothing !

So we disband for lack of replacements, and all go our own ways.  For the next few days I work hard to get a group together for the first book part 4, only for the quest chain to go yellow then gray in my quest log book.

 

This is how I remember LOTRO from way back in beta.  I played most of it by myself, other than little groups hanging around doing the same thing as me. 

It was so frustrating to me and EVERYONE ELSE, that I was sure Turbine would have solved this after two years.  And that is why I created the original post.

Look it !!!!
 

Your answer to this REAL, yes REAL problem is to join an elite kin ??

What about the other 95% of the players ? 

How about some answers from someone else, except the two people controlling the forum's 24/7. 

Originally posted by page

Ok, I guess i'll never be able to get my personal one gripe across as long as Jackdog, and Donnie Basco, are defending everything about LOTRO 24/7.

Do you guys ever sleep :)

well if your one gripe as you put it is that LoTRO is not as group centric a game as FFXI and Vanguard your point has been made. I seriously doubt that Turbine will pull a SOE and do a NGE to the game like Funcom is doing with patch 1.05 in AoC since LoTRO's population is very healthy.

BTW I retired early a few months back so I sleep, surf the net and game whenever I want to or more accuratly when the wife isn't home spurring me on to working on the honey do list.

Originally posted by page

Look it !!!!
 

Your answer to this REAL, yes REAL problem is to join an elite kin ??

What about the other 95% of the players ? 

How about some answers from someone else, except the two people controlling the forum's 24/7. 

Kinships was mentioned outside of my 3 points, but let's skip that (also mentioned you need research, yes).

I am in my kinship since 14th of April, 2007. Many have left, many have come, it is a tuly casual kinship, with no restrictions, no requirements (very basic). We have raids planned every weekend (optional), and there are 50+ people logged in at all times, with altogether 500+ members.). Every single time someone needs to do a group quest, it can be solved - not always immediately, sometimes even only on the next day/occasion.

I am a 90% solo player, and I always try PUG's first when I really need an FS quests (success rate variable, 50-60%, depending on region), and only if that won't work do I use my kinship.

95% is a vague idea, not sure where you get it from. Whenever I play, I'd say the opposite: 90+% of all players are in kinships (you can see that under their name, as you know :).

Those are my experiences, and mine only. They do not necessarily apply to others. All I'm saying, that if you do a couple of things right, you will not have problems with FS quests.

Yeah, you cannot everything with no effort either. Still easier than the real world :)

DB

Originally posted by page

Look it !!!!
 

Your answer to this REAL, yes REAL problem is to join an elite kin ??

What about the other 95% of the players ? 

How about some answers from someone else, except the two people controlling the forum's 24/7. 

At least it's fair that you admitted that you're not looking for a discussion. Still, I hope we can help you :)

DB

Originally posted by page

How about some answers from someone else, except the two people controlling the forum's 24/7. 

Ok, how about this.

Turbine is asking the playerbase a question, now is your time to give them some actional feedback:

"What three changes would you make to the LFF panel?"

So, everyone's theory that they don't care, is, and has been stupid. I look forward to reading your suggestions.

If you are an MMO vet as you state, then you should know to research kins and not just ask in general chat.  Every MMO I have played I either researched the kin/guild/sg that I joined or joined ones with rl friends.  You NEVER ask in general chat for a kin.  I think you learn that in MMO 101 or some such.  The forums are full of kins looking and some have their own website. 

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by page

How about some answers from someone else, except the two people controlling the forum's 24/7. 

 

Ok, how about this.

Turbine is asking the playerbase a question, now is your time to give them some actional feedback:

"What three changes would you make to the LFF panel?"

 

 

 

So, everyone's theory that they don't care, is, and has been stupid. I look forward to reading your suggestions.

/sigh

I think most aren't saying they don't care, least I'm not anyways.  Just that they won't do what's needed to fix the problem for reasons I've already stated.  The LFF panel isn't the issue.  Most don't use it as intended but what game that has an interface like this does it get used in?  Most still do the 'ole ask in chat rigamrole in all of the games I play no matter how much the devs try to make these lfg interfaces user friendly and comprehensive to no end.

They're avoiding the real issue, least in my opinion, for what some may say are valid concerns while I say it's being short sighted. Still, it's one of the best games on the market and I stand by my point that if you play on one of the populated servers or find a solid kin you won't have this issue.  Doesn't make it right that it's still an issue but at least it's manageable.

When I played before and tried making my point I was modded by them and received a suspension warning due to trolling.  Suppose i could give another go at it but that really pissed me off considering 99.9% of my other posts hailed the game and I get thrown under the bus simply because I felt that was a concern.  Pure bullshit if you ask me.

On an offtopic side note: Still amazes me that this is the same company running DDO.  How the hell they could put together a game like Rings and also have been the ones behind DDO is astounding. DDO is weak in so many areas compared to Rings.  Great concepts but piss poor execution.  Of course, Wizard forcing them to use the current edition they were trying to sell rather than letting Turbine have rights to really have opened things up considering the amount of story lines and modules D&D had available to use didn't help any either.

I'm not sure what the OP is expecting....there were concerns expressed about grouping issues....ways to assist this problem were given...mostly by Jackdog and Donniebrasco. I think they covered everything....sans forcing Turbine to change LoTRO at gunpoint.  Then the OP basically wipes away  the replies ...as if verbally  spit upon (or perhaps textually ...I guess the OP felt "textually abused")..and asks for others to answer instead.. These are the answers. Any other advise given by anyone else would basically tell you the same thing...including any advise I would give. There is no one person who is going to come on here spouting revelations and performing miracles. This is  real life...leave the magic for the game itself.

     As for Vanguard Vs. Lotro...I too would pick Lotro.   Vanguard has a decent community...imo...much like Lotro,,tho smaller.  other things it has going for it are Crafting and diplomacy systems. Which i enjoyed. It  has very open ended and seemingly endless lands.  Lotro crafting is good enough...a diplomacy style play would be great. It seems open enough,,and to me the graphics are more pleasing...and again...imo...seem more detailed than VG.,,this is despite the raves I've heard about VG graphics (which one of the reasons i tried the game...and was slightly let down).  Both are good games...but to me it came down to the overall feel and quality ...the total gameplay as a gestalt experience and not based on a list of pros and cons. LoTRO beat out VG in my mind. I do go back from time to time and tool around in VG...I just do not claim permanent residency.

I too though LotrO had great graphics, but once I fired up VG with the new quad system, I was basically blown away. Think the style of LotrO is awesome, but graphically, VG is just amazing...

Again, LotrO has has great art direction, but where it fails me graphically is how they do the trees and far away views, the imposter trees should look like how VG did theres, it would bring LotRO  into a new light if Turbine could fix the there distance blur.

I realize that is how the game pops in the forground, by having an amazing background..

Originally posted by blueturtle13

I never have any issues at all with Vanguard. Not even hitching anymore. The game has come a long way since it was launched and it shows. Not trying to seem like a crazy fan boy or anything but I know it had alot of issues at launch and a year out even. (I was in beta) But to say the game is broken and runs like crap just isnt true. If you dont like the game thats cool but at least be honest.

That last line makes me wonder about you not being a crazy fanboy. How do you know what play experience I had? Trying to tell me that because your experience has been a good one, mine had to have been too and that anything I say to the contrary is a lie is nonsense. The fact of the matter is that I wanted to play Vanguard badly, but it was so terribly buggy it was sad. 

Good choice, I have been a Vanguard fan since day one. I still think it is by far the best looking and most explorable MMO out there and it will always hold a place in my heart.

I moved to LOTRO simply as a stop gap until Champions. I am mainly a soloist and soloed to 49 in VG, had lots of fun doing it, but wanted a change. LOTRO is nice, graphics leave something to be desired, but I am enjoying it nonetheless. I have a long way to go though (only lev 15).

Originally posted by solareus

I too though LotrO had great graphics, but once I fired up VG with the new quad system, I was basically blown away. Think the style of LotrO is awesome, but graphically, VG is just amazing...

Again, LotrO has has great art direction, but where it fails me graphically is how they do the trees and far away views, the imposter trees should look like how VG did theres, it would bring LotRO  into a new light if Turbine could fix the there distance blur.

I realize that is how the game pops in the forground, by having an amazing background..

I actually have to disagree with you there. The far off trees in LOTRO are made more to be like an impressionistic painting. I really like how they did it and it's one of the more artistically interesting things that the world of LOTRO has. It would be a shame to change that. In my opinion the background works exceptionally well and was one of the things that I positively commented on during closed beta. It really took some talent to add that. I would also propose that at times it conjures Maxfield Parish (though he was not part of the impressionistic movement he was alive during it.)

Where LOTRO falls in my opinion are the horrible character models and gear.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by solareus

I too though LotrO had great graphics, but once I fired up VG with the new quad system, I was basically blown away. Think the style of LotrO is awesome, but graphically, VG is just amazing...

Again, LotrO has has great art direction, but where it fails me graphically is how they do the trees and far away views, the imposter trees should look like how VG did theres, it would bring LotRO  into a new light if Turbine could fix the there distance blur.

I realize that is how the game pops in the forground, by having an amazing background..

 

I actually have to disagree with you there. The far off trees in LOTRO are made more to be like an impressionistic painting. I really like how they did it and it's one of the more artistically interesting things that the world of LOTRO has. It would be a shame to change that. In my opinion the background works exceptionally well and was one of the things that I positively commented on during closed beta. It really took some talent to add that. I would also propose that at times it conjures Maxfield Parish (though he was not part of the impressionistic movement he was alive during it.)

Where LOTRO falls in my opinion are the horrible character models and gear.

I have some screenshots where that those trees in LotrO are in now way a impressionist veiw of tolkein, iti sjust really horrible around the "almost" diffused blur effect that has a very bad dark color around it. I have helld in my dislike for this aspec for a while, but to move forward in LotRO I need to be honest about some things.

Seriouly think if Turbine would create a background effect like Hellgate london, or Vanguard, it would make the world , that much more emmersive and ellusive.

Imagine this screen shot with a beautiful subtle guassian blur effect like in Hellgat ...

Originally posted by solareus

I too though LotrO had great graphics, but once I fired up VG with the new quad system, I was basically blown away. Think the style of LotrO is awesome, but graphically, VG is just amazing...

Again, LotrO has has great art direction, but where it fails me graphically is how they do the trees and far away views, the imposter trees should look like how VG did theres, it would bring LotRO  into a new light if Turbine could fix the there distance blur.

I realize that is how the game pops in the forground, by having an amazing background..

Apples and oranges... to may taste, these shots are still pretty ugly (very plasticy looks). I have played VG for 1 or 2 months, and cranked up gfx as I have a good system, but it was plain ugly. Trees, rocks, walls, buildings were wildly "jumping out" from the background, no integrity whatsoever. Whenever I entered a building, I could see my own toons eyeballs inside his head. Really, really distracting.
 

But as I said, each to his own. If I want to see truly amazing gfx, I play Crysis, Far Cry 2 or -still, up to today - Half-Life 2.

DB

 Po tay toes  - po tah toes

My 2 cents worth of opinion is  - I love to explore in these games and I initially thought Vanguards world was great, but it was way too much real estate with way too little worth exploring. I also think the characters are too Barbie doll plastic just like EQII's. When it comes to characters in my opinion LoTRO beats Vanguard, when it comes to armor Vanguard beats LoTRO. All these are just my opinions and others mileage may vary

Now if all you want just good eye candy you should play AoC, it blows LoTRO and Vanguard out of the water graphics wise. Unfortunately the game play sucks swamp water and for a explorer you are screwed because of the limited pathing it took to get those pixels.