Ive been hearing this alot...people dont want to grind and to fix this they do quest over and over and over.....let me sheed some light on the unenlightened..QUESTING IS GRINDING...yes i said it.  WoW is Grindy...in fact any game that has levels has a grind...the only difference is too which route they take.  Quest grinding or Mob grinding....in the end they are both grinds.  The problem with Mob grinding is most of the time its done solo which = not fun....FFIX did this type of grind to perfections...group grinding can be quite enjoyable.  Quest Grinding is like Most MMO's released today....quest in a certain area, move to the next area, move to the next area....and so on... all while doing kill, fetch, or gather type quest with the occassional exceptions.  Its a very small part of the market that actually studies lore or read the quests.  Because of this a mojority of people are doing quest to level, NOT TO LEARN ABOUT LORE.  People doing quest over and over are grinding...sorry.  Quest just replaces the Mob in this case. 

wish people would stop complaining about grind period.

If you dont like grinding stop playing MMOs, all MMOs have grind.

Its all a grind.  The difference is, loads of quests are more FUN than mindless spawn camping AND you can still grind away in any MMO with lots of quests.  You don't HAVE TO do the quests.  You NEVER have to do the quests.  However, once you remove the quests all you have is mindless mob grinding.  CHOICE is better than none.  People like choice.

Besides, its not a grind if you're having fun;) 

Games with lots of quest can be grindy for those not really involved in what they are doing within the game world other the rush to cap lvl. Actualy getting involved with the story/quest is not a grind. Grind is doing the same thing over and over again which is a persons playstyle as every quest might end similar but the story's are not, not reading them will make people asume it's a grind.

Grind is caused by a persons playstyle not so much by the game. So if a person is experiancing grind he or she should re-consider perhaps changing playstyle.

Originally posted by 4Renziks

Ive been hearing this alot...people dont want to grind and to fix this they do quest over and over and over.....let me sheed some light on the unenlightened..QUESTING IS GRINDING...yes i said it.  WoW is Grindy...in fact any game that has levels has a grind...the only difference is too which route they take.  Quest grinding or Mob grinding....in the end they are both grinds.  The problem with Mob grinding is most of the time its done solo which = not fun....FFIX did this type of grind to perfections...group grinding can be quite enjoyable.  Quest Grinding is like Most MMO's released today....quest in a certain area, move to the next area, move to the next area....and so on... all while doing kill, fetch, or gather type quest with the occassional exceptions.  Its a very small part of the market that actually studies lore or read the quests.  Because of this a mojority of people are doing quest to level, NOT TO LEARN ABOUT LORE.  People doing quest over and over are grinding...sorry.  Quest just replaces the Mob in this case. 

Well, you do NOT do the SAME quests (until level cap) so there is a different.

Sure quest is grind too. At least it is more INTERESTING grind because each quest is different. That is 100x >>>> mob grind.

Questing is grinding if you don't take the time to read quests and enjoy them. If you are trying to speed level and only accept quests and read the objectives, then yes it is a grind.

Iam not saying 1 is better over the other, i like quests...i just hate the solo aspect of quest grinders...my point was that games with quest is a grind, if your doing quest and think your not grinding then you are mistaken 

Some people wouldn't consider quesingt a grind if they actually enjoy questing rather then hitting max level. 

Case in point: I knew 2 best friends while playing world of warcraft that each had a 60 on 5 seperate servers (this was back in 2006)  What they would do is just go from server to server, creating a new toon, level it, each it, then once they hit 60, they would leave for another server and roll another class.

But in my own personal opinion, any game that revolves around progression and the goal for most of the people to reach the end of that progression, is grindy. 

Counterstrike has no grind (unless you are trying to achieve top rank on that server or something of that matter).

World of warcraft has a grind (because my goal was always to hit max level and then gear up for pvp or pve).

The fact that people are trying to say there is no grind in certain mmorpgs is ridiculous.

Players are different and we like what we like. Any repetitive element in a game that doesn't mesh with our own personal preferences will feel like "a dull grind". That can be traditional grinding (killing mobs over and over for XP) or it can just as easily be the kill/collect/deliver quests that comprise the vast majority of mainstream quest-based content. Or running the same dungeon over and over for loot drops. Or meaningless PvP to accrue "points" and save up for item rewards.

After ten years of MMO gaming, the one thing that I've come to realise is that one mans "grind" is another mans "content".

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

one mans "grind" is another mans "content".

Bravo!

That would be a great sig.

And to the OP both questing and farming mobs is all a grind, actually everything in a MMO is a grind.

And by grind I mean a repetitive action done over and over for a specific goal.

What matters is if this grind is fun or not to you.

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

one mans "grind" is another mans "content".

 

Bravo!

That would be a great sig.

 

And to the OP both questing and farming mobs is all a grind, actually everything in a MMO is a grind.

And by grind I mean a repetitive action done over and over for a specific goal.

What matters is if this grind is fun or not to you.

MMORPG's are classified and defined by their grinds. 

One could argue that w/o the grind, you don't really have an MMORPG.

I remember playing CRPG's 20 years ago. I would do quests, kill mobs, loot, and level up. I'm still doing it in MMORPG's today. It defines the genre! Its like going swimming and complaining about being wet all the time.

 anything that conceptionally has to be done over and over again is a grind. all games have it. The thing is, can they make it fun. There are aspects of the grind that can be fun... like if you can d it with a group, and u get to interact. or if the grind style changes allot so it doesn't feel so repetitive.

Ussually people who complain about quests being a grind, don't read them, say the stories suck after admitting they didn't read them and usualy complain OR brag about leveling to cap in a few weeks.  Its like complaining that your head hurts after punching yourself in the face...you can't be THAT stupid=)

Originally posted by 4Renziks

Ive been hearing this alot...people dont want to grind and to fix this they do quest over and over and over.....let me sheed some light on the unenlightened..QUESTING IS GRINDING...yes i said it.  WoW is Grindy...in fact any game that has levels has a grind...the only difference is too which route they take.  Quest grinding or Mob grinding....in the end they are both grinds.  The problem with Mob grinding is most of the time its done solo which = not fun....FFIX did this type of grind to perfections...group grinding can be quite enjoyable.  Quest Grinding is like Most MMO's released today....quest in a certain area, move to the next area, move to the next area....and so on... all while doing kill, fetch, or gather type quest with the occassional exceptions.  Its a very small part of the market that actually studies lore or read the quests.  Because of this a mojority of people are doing quest to level, NOT TO LEARN ABOUT LORE.  People doing quest over and over are grinding...sorry.  Quest just replaces the Mob in this case. 

I think you have nailed it in that the people who are doing the quests aren't paying attention to what they are doing. They just see "kill x of y" and they rush to do that then go back and get the next one.

It's the players who are ruining the game for themselves. Or they just don't care about the quests in which case I would propose that they are playing the wrong game. If they are rushing to level cap in a quest based game, my guess is that they aren't going to enjoy themselves too much once they reach level cap.

 Let me help:

Game A:  the only activity is kiling kobolds till level 200, and zombies till level 250.

Grindy Hell.

Game B: theres a few quest,  "Kill 300 kobolds".   "Kill 160 zombies".    Theres a attemp of history on these quest, but only on the text, the world don't follow. 

Grindy.

Game C: theres lots of quest.  Some of these are "Kill 20 kobolds" but others are fun, and creative, on the type "Use this kobold bear, infiltrate the kobold camp, and steal the ring of kobold king"

No grindy.

Game D: theres a zillion quest, most of these are somewhat creative, and supposedly interesting... but  not. 

Grindy. 

The key element is the writting. If the quest have a history that are interesting to read, if the world and the quest are interesting and support each another. The quest are supposed to be like a mini-adventure. If the quest is just another chose "give me 30 kobolds tails" is anotehr type of grind.

And theres 2 types of grind. The bad and the good one. The bad is boring, the good make you play and play and play. 

I see Quests just as a slightly more enjoyable, less monotonous grind.  Only slightly.

Too many of the quests are just running errands... travel here, then travel there, here's your gold and your magic boxer shorts, have a nice day.  They generally lack any true sense of adventure or accomplishment.  You didn't have to figure anything out, or try particularly hard anything.

It's all a matter of perception. Some people are easily entertained and don't mind going to and fro quest npcs and collecting n pieces of y and this won't be grinding to them.

To be accurate, the term grinding only applies to quests if your doing the same quest(s) over and over.  If your able to advance in level without having to repeat quests, then obviously the devs did something right.  As far as the OP's comments about doing the same old types of quests all the time, well that is unfortunately true.  At this point in the development of the MMORPG genre game devs ideas of quests have crystallized into a number of set formats ie; kill-10, fed-ex, escort etc.  Now I am one of those people who take the time to read the lore on quests, I enjoy it and I think it helps me to immerse myself in the game. 

Originally posted by spades07

It's all a matter of perception. Some people are easily entertained and don't mind going to and fro quest npcs and collecting n pieces of y and this won't be grinding to them.

I don't think it has anything to do with being easily entertained.

When they do a quest they are "doing the quest".

When they are being sent to kill 9 bears it has nothing to do with killing 9 bears. It has everything to do with needing to get enough bear pelts so that Louisa and her children can make decent clothes for the winter as her husband has gone off to investigate why he hasn't heard anything from his brother who left to go to the old mines last summer.

It's sort of an internal role play in that you are actually investing in what the spirit of the quest is.

Otherwise there is no reason for the quest and you might as well just grind bears in a field.

I will accept that there  are way too many "kill x and y" quests however. Though actually those don't really bother me. It's the fedex quests that I hate.