Are there currently any mmo's with perma death in them?

no because its a stupid feature for persistant online worlds.  Single player games should only have it if they have a decent save system in (and remind the players to save often) or checkpoints.

Bottom line:  It doesnt work without saves/checkpoints and there is no way that i am playing an MMO with those in it.

All of them. So long as they have a "DELETE" button on the character selection screen.

You're welcome!

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Originally posted by hanshotfirst
All of them. So long as they have a "DELETE" button on the character selection screen.

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QFT

I think Dofus has it or had it planned

Besides that I guess Neverwinter nights has plenty of of roleplaying PD servers

Closest thing you have to permanent death in an mmo is D2 Hardcore mode.

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

All of them. So long as they have a "DELETE" button on the character selection screen.

 

You're welcome!

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

All of them. So long as they have a "DELETE" button on the character selection screen.

 

You're welcome!

Well said sir.

Originally posted by Yamoth

Closest thing you have to permanent death in an mmo is D2 Hardcore mode.

In all seriousness this guys got it.

yes there is.

it is called Real Life and was published around 100.000 years ago.

some think though you can play on after the "game over" screen appears.

Instead of asking for this feature maybe you should think about the consequences about perma death from a developers standpoint.  In Diablo II's case it was not a big deal as it is really not a persistant world.  In a MMO though, think of what happens when the player has a bad connection and dies because of it?  Pretty common in today's world.  Think of the nightmare of servicing all the GM requests that would come from just one major hiccup in a server connection, not uncommon either.

Developers aren't going to code something that is going to fill up there GM queues. Perma death would be the grand daddy of them all in this matter.

You can design a game from the ground up with permadeath but it requires some sort of continuity. You can't just permadeath players and say "tough shit you lose everything and all of you time spent in game is erased."  It's likely to be very different from what you imagine though.  

You guys are all being pretty narrow-minded.

"It's impossible to sail to China by going West! You'll fall off the edge of the world!"

"Actually, you're just an idiot who thinks that just because something hasn't been done yet, it must be impossible."

Shaiya in hardcore mode has permadeath

Hellgate:London had it,and its expected that when (if) the new owners release it again, it will keep that feature

Originally posted by fischsemmel

You guys are all being pretty narrow-minded.

 

"It's impossible to sail to China by going West! You'll fall off the edge of the world!"

"Actually, you're just an idiot who thinks that just because something hasn't been done yet, it must be impossible."

Either that or this is one of the many beat to death topics for both players and developers.

The thread never changes. Someone suggests permadeath and then people start suggesting ways to make permadeath so that players will find it acceptable. Every single idea people suggest move it farther and farther from permadeath and more into a 'transition'  of some sort. Why? Because players consider MMOs an investment and they don't want to lose what they have invested time and money into.

That's the entire thread (this one, every one before it and everyone after it) in a nutshell.

Much more progress would be made on the topic if people gave up the idea of 'permadeath' and just looked for interesting and engaging ways to create a transition or transformation feature since every thread on the topic has shown extreme support for such a design.

Actually, it may introduce some interesting design concepts because most threads on transition/transformation are tackled from the angleof "sub-classing" and usually end up as just different ways to give a massive jump in power to a character.

I can think of one form of permadeath that a lot of players would probably find acceptable: permanent in-game recognition.

Fame is the reward most MMO players want. So some kind of in-game recognition (statues in public places, new spells named after them, new class of ship named after them, whatever). The specifics would depend on the game in question, but I can see myself wanting to play an MMO that would give me a permanent impact on the game world merely for making it to a certain point (or accomplishing some task) without dying, while risking permadeath if I fail.

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Originally posted by fischsemmel
You guys are all being pretty narrow-minded.
 
"It's impossible to sail to China by going West! You'll fall off the edge of the world!"
"Actually, you're just an idiot who thinks that just because something hasn't been done yet, it must be impossible."

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I doubt that calling anyone an idiot is going to advance your cause.

The replies you're getting are trying to communicate the impracticality of an MMO with permadeath. To put permadeath into a game suggests that the entire game be structured such that permanent death of a character is a natural expectation of the players.

For example, consider a game where players spend all their time building up personal achievements, as with a leveling game. After having labored mightily for weeks or months, the player's character is killed. End of achievements. Start over.

There just aren't that many people who enjoy laboring to build something, losing it, then starting over again.

Another example would be a game where players spend all their time building up personal achievements, but when a character dies, a family relative steps in to take over. The original character is dead, but the player's experience continues essentially unchanged.

That is the roleplayer's permadeath.

A last example would be a game designed for permadeath. The game has dozens of servers all running variations of the same game where any given game runs for a couple months. There are story goals in each game, always different. Players get a character at the start of the game, and try to keep it alive to the end. If the character is killed off, the player is out of that game. Find another server that is starting a new game.

That system can work because players know that they will lose everything when the game instance ends, so having the character killed off is expected and normal. Also, a game like that doesn't involve accumulating lots of in-game accomplishments.

Permadeath is a tough sell, but note that there are MMOs that implement permadeath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_death

You guys haven't been paying attention if you think there are no games with Perma Death.

If that's what you're into, go play Shaiya. Hardcore created characters get the most stat points per level up, but if they are not revived within 5 minutes they are permanently destroyed.

Originally posted by Brain-dead

I can think of one form of permadeath that a lot of players would probably find acceptable: permanent in-game recognition.

Fame is the reward most MMO players want. So some kind of in-game recognition (statues in public places, new spells named after them, new class of ship named after them, whatever). The specifics would depend on the game in question, but I can see myself wanting to play an MMO that would give me a permanent impact on the game world merely for making it to a certain point (or accomplishing some task) without dying, while risking permadeath if I fail.

I like that idea as well, but it leads to a difficult issue of where to place that cut off between dying with zzero notoriety and being immortalized. If it's too easy, then it's trivialized and not worth the risk ofpermadeath. If it's too hard to reach then most will just see death as loss and failure. Finding that "sweet spot" seems doable but extremely difficult. It's something a hobbyist would be able to try out because they have no money riding on it, but very few developers would probably be willing to risk that experiment.

You guys are all rude idiots, there is a mmo with perm death, It's called Dofus.
Although if you disconnect at level 200.. well, thats your problem, welcome to Perma death.

Originally posted by Agoden

You guys are all rude idiots...

Quoted for irony

Dungeons & Dragons Online does not have Permadeath as a feature of the game, but there is a large and active PD community with guilds on every server (in the US, don't know about EU).  Each guild has it's own set of rules (some don't allow the Auction House, some don't allow shrines, etc..  We just delete our characters manually when they die.

Thinking about this question has sparked my mind. 

I doubt you will ever have an mmo w/ permadeath per say, but it wouldn't be too far fetched to for an mmo to implement a zone or battleground so to speak that when you enter, upon your death, you cannot continue in that zone/instance till theres only 1 man left or until a time period is reached.  Make it that the zone would have great rewards the further into it you went, but once your dead you cannot reenter until it's reset or completed. 

The idea is similiar to a raid style instance but once your dead your dead until it's reset.

Originally posted by NeoKyosuke18

Thinking about this question has sparked my mind. 

I doubt you will ever have an mmo w/ permadeath per say, but it wouldn't be too far fetched to for an mmo to implement a zone or battleground so to speak that when you enter, upon your death, you cannot continue in that zone/instance till theres only 1 man left or until a time period is reached.  Make it that the zone would have great rewards the further into it you went, but once your dead you cannot reenter until it's reset or completed. 

 

The idea is similiar to a raid style instance but once your dead your dead until it's reset.

 

 

Although this is not permanent death, this is a great compromise that could be very interesting.  People want to play a permanent death server don't intended to die.  It just that the fear of dying can add a very thrilling experience to the game.  So instead of a permanent death, trying locked you out of the goodies for a set amount of time might just do the same thing.

Originally posted by Agoden

You guys are all rude idiots, there is a mmo with perm death, It's called Dofus.
Although if you disconnect at level 200.. well, thats your problem, welcome to Perma death.

Always nice to emphacize your point when disagreeing to call everyone else idiots.  Yeah, Dofus can do it because they have virtually little in game support.  You die, no matter the circumstances, they don't care.  Personally I avoid games where the developer has little or no ingame support, that is just asking for frustration.