---

Originally posted by peaceandlove

But wouldn't the Republicans just move to the new party if their party died? Then it would be back to square one again. no?
 

---

True, that could happen. There's nothing keeping them out. But they'd end up not being supported. They would get no funds. It's like with Arlen Spector.

When he voted with President Obama recently, the Republicans blackballed him. He had an upcoming race as a Republican senator and as punishment, the GOP was going to freeze him out of funds for campaigning against the other Republican in the primary. So Spector would have had to raise money by himself, the Dems wouldn't give it to him because he was a Republican, so that meant out of his own pocket. The people weren't going to support him because the party said not to.

These guys could leak over, but they wouldn't be fronted, so they'd either change, join and shut up or get shunned, or stay where they are.

Originally posted by Faxxer

no, this gallup poll is just another attempt to try and pile on, but everyone on the left doesn't see the massive wave people that have had enough and are going to make a change into a better direction.   I encourage you all to keep on thinking that conservatives are the minority...that way I can enjoy your horror come the next election cycle.  the term "knashing of teeth" comes to mind actually. lol

I had a strange flashback when I read that post Faxxer. The term "nashing of teeth" came to mind, indeed.

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/209744/page/1

Care to make it 0 for 2? You make predictions as well as you spell.

Gnashing at the bit, aren't you

Originally posted by outfctrl

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by outfctrl

Well, I know of one more Republican.  my Son turned 18 and is getting his voter registration card.  REPUBLICAN

I have twins(boy/girl) that are 16, both are hard core Republicans.  When they turn 18, two more.

They have conveyed to me the fear of socialism and excessive spending.

All are Catholic too.

It is just a matter of time until the Dems fall.

The only way for the dems to fall is for the republicans to change their ways.

What were you suggesting with your kids? That the republican party is somehow on the rise because your three kids are now republicans?

If all 3 of them have the same political views to the point you even call them "hard core Republican" and share the same religion before they even turned 18, I think they have been brainwashed by their family right from the start.

I seriously doubt your kids have a true political standpoint of their own.

All through the election my kids were made fun of for being Conservative. None of them believe in Global warming either.  They even came to me and told me that. 

My kids have made their own mind up.   None of my views were pushed on them, none.  In fact, they all believe in Intelligent design and have showed me books on it.

So you didn't send them to private christian schools, also known as the right wing utopia?
After reading your posts here, I don't believe for a second that those kids grew up in an unbiased environment.
Weren't you also raised with very strict christianity when you were young? I remember you saying that in a previous thread.

 

Originally posted by Gameloading

So you didn't send them to private christian schools, also known as the right wing utopia?
After reading your posts here, I don't believe for a second that those kids grew up in an unbiased environment.
Weren't you also raised with very strict christianity when you were young? I remember you saying that in a previous thread.

 

 

And your not very liberal about homosexuality because you grew up in Holland?

I'm liberal about it because I grew up in a tolerant enviroment. If I grew up in Iran or Russia, I would think very differently. So would you.  My dad physically spits on gay people. All old people his age do. And he's racist and bla bla bla. He is a product of the society he was raised in. 

He's an educated enlightened and tolerant individual, (perhaps more than anyone I know), but he's still a product of the machine. He hasn't made those adjustments because he hasn't had to. He has no significant daily contact with gays or colours. If he ever does, he will.

Your enviroment is a big factor in how your political views are formed. Unless you are a historian, it is not helpful to be unbiased in politics. The idea is that you row your own boat. Have your own say and influence the decisions.

Currently America is firmly left wing. The right is so hated that right wingers will be running a low profile. Floating voters will all be with the left. Right wingers will not all be praising Bush at dinner parties and down the pubs unless they are in the mood for an arguement. They will just be keeping their heads down until the public mood changes.

In 8 years time, most likely the opposite will be true.

For a European like you and me it should not be lost on you that the American left is more right wing than any European right. It's not a historically socialist country and it isn't making any giant leaps in that direction.

We know that politics is more a factor your enviroment, more factional than rational. Republicans haven't gone anywhere. they haven't stop breeding or raising little Republicans. There hasn't been any genocides or purges.

Sooner ot later everyone will get tired of heavier taxes and new regulations and Democrats will become as loved as Republicans currently are. It's swings and roundabouts.

@RoflCtrl, when your kids vote democrat, and at least one will, they won't tell you. The ballot box is a secret that Daddy can't ever find out about! Their politics come under different influences when they leave home. Like that hippy they are shagging at Uni.

Originally posted by peaceandlove

But after the two Parties took the Presidential Debate Commitee away from the National Women's Rights League (something like that). they had an agreement not to allow any third parties debate on stage with the two Parties.
 

So how will a Third party compete? The Democratic Party will always be my party, but I am just curious to know the answer because i see so much talk about Third parties. But it looks like they don't even have a chance.

Here in England we are looking to break with the party system completely. If thats what Democracy is, what difference Communism?

Those little scumbags are fighting it all the way, but if they don't play ball we will kill them all. There is no place for factionalism in the current climate. No excuse for representing your party when you should be representing your country.

Our third party doesn't compete, it only matters in moments of political deadlock, at which point it swings the balance. Since there are numerous occaisons when the vote is close, they are still a powerful lobby.

I agree, Left and Right, Black and White.. is what I say.

The current world doesn't support such blind pride.

Originally posted by clwoods

I agree that people in this country are far too supportive of people instead of ideas.  I've said before that both Republicans and Democrats, for the most part, will be willing vote for things they don't believe in just because someone pays them to vote a certain way.

 

fixed in italics

Originally posted by peaceandlove

That's why we indoctrinate our children very young in our public schools.

Like I was saying in another thread. I volunteer for a Gay Rights Organization, we go speak in public schools from kindergarden to 6th graders about Homosexuality. We teach them that Gay people are normal people just like them and that it is very American to stand up to somebody that treats Gays badly. We have them sign our Pledge Cards and everything. It's a good feeling knowing that we help little children. Soon nobody will hate Gays for who we are.

I should imagine there are a lot of parents out there that would like to murder you.

People have the right to indoctrinate their own children in the way they prefer. You will never step foot in my classroom.

If you want to indoctrinate children, produce your own.

It's bad enough you make all the kids salute the flag. I don't approve of Stalinism. I abhor it. There is no place for social engineering in schools.

I've run gay discos all round the country. I've chaffeured my housemates to and fro public toilets every night. When it comes to children, you are stepping on very thin ice. My tolerance only extends so far.

In kindergarten! Jesus Christ, have you no respect for other people at all?

Originally posted by baff

Originally posted by peaceandlove

That's why we indoctrinate our children very young in our public schools.

Like I was saying in another thread. I volunteer for a Gay Rights Organization, we go speak in public schools from kindergarden to 6th graders about Homosexuality. We teach them that Gay people are normal people just like them and that it is very American to stand up to somebody that treats Gays badly. We have them sign our Pledge Cards and everything. It's a good feeling knowing that we help little children. Soon nobody will hate Gays for who we are.

 

I should imagine there are a lot of parents out there that would like to murder you.

They would, if it wasn't blatantly obvious that peaceandlove is clearly trolling.

Seriously, "pledge cards" to not hate gays? Do you actually believe the shit this idiot is spouting off?

Originally posted by baff

Originally posted by Gameloading

So you didn't send them to private christian schools, also known as the right wing utopia?
After reading your posts here, I don't believe for a second that those kids grew up in an unbiased environment.
Weren't you also raised with very strict christianity when you were young? I remember you saying that in a previous thread.

 

 

 

And your not very liberal about homosexuality because you grew up in Holland?

I'm liberal about it because I grew up in a tolerant enviroment. If I grew up in Iran or Russia, I would think very differently. So would you.  My dad physically spits on gay people. All old people his age do. And he's racist and bla bla bla. He is a product of the society he was raised in. 

He's an educated enlightened and tolerant individual, (perhaps more than anyone I know), but he's still a product of the machine. He hasn't made those adjustments because he hasn't had to. He has no significant daily contact with gays or colours. If he ever does, he will.

 

 

Your enviroment is a big factor in how your political views are formed. Unless you are a historian, it is not helpful to be unbiased in politics. The idea is that you row your own boat. Have your own say and influence the decisions.

 

Currently America is firmly left wing. The right is so hated that right wingers will be running a low profile. Floating voters will all be with the left. Right wingers will not all be praising Bush at dinner parties and down the pubs unless they are in the mood for an arguement. They will just be keeping their heads down until the public mood changes.

In 8 years time, most likely the opposite will be true.

For a European like you and me it should not be lost on you that the American left is more right wing than any European right. It's not a historically socialist country and it isn't making any giant leaps in that direction.

 

We know that politics is more a factor your enviroment, more factional than rational. Republicans haven't gone anywhere. they haven't stop breeding or raising little Republicans. There hasn't been any genocides or purges.

 

Sooner ot later everyone will get tired of heavier taxes and new regulations and Democrats will become as loved as Republicans currently are. It's swings and roundabouts.

 

@RoflCtrl, when your kids vote democrat, and at least one will, they won't tell you. The ballot box is a secret that Daddy can't ever find out about! Their politics come under different influences when they leave home. Like that hippy they are shagging at Uni.

Living in a liberal or conservative household is very different from living in a liberal/conservative nation. In most western countries, politics is not brought to the attention of children unless the family they grow up in choses to do so. My views on homosexuality has very little to do with the political identity of the Netherlands, don't forget that gay marriage hasn't even been around for 10 years yet.

If I grew up in Iran, i would think that way because that nation enforces its belief on young children. This isn't the case with most western nations.

I was fortunate enough to grow up in a mostly unbiased environment. Politics was never addressed in my family. I did go to a christian school but fortunately, it did not make an impact on me. I was able to make up my mind without bias.

Is that what you people think Christian private schools are...nothing to be gained but a homophobic racist right wing utopia?

What about a value system?  Last time I checked, hating "the colors" wasn't a corner stone of christian beliefs.  Respecting yourself and treating others the way Jesus would is. 

How about a better education?  I know familys that sacrafice most of life's luxurys just so they can afford to send their kids to private schools.  Yes...the public school system is that bad.  Whats wrong with wanting your kids to attend a school where they don't have to get waved with a metal detector at the doors.....disruptive class rooms, and teachers that couldn't care less???

As for political affiliation.....there is no difference between a Jesus hating left wing absolutist than there is with a Jesus loving right wing absolutist.  Extremisim is extremisim regardless of which side its on.  If we can not debate ideas in a civil manner then we are no better than placed like Iran.  The progression of ideas should not come from one group shouting over another. 

Many of the attributes the OP likened to the GOP are just the same within the Democratic party.  

And to say that young children aren't introduced to political themes in Western nations is not entirely correct.  It may not be a state sponsored message....but the message is still there in media.  Kids are completely overwhelmed with information compared to 20-30 years ago.  Kids are being influenced more and more from TV, radio, internet, social networks, schools....and less and less by parents.  Familys (on the whole) don't sit down at the kitchen table for dinner any more......the kid takes their plate of food to their room to eat where they can watch MTV and where they can twitter, text, and AIM.

Those who can influence the media can influence the percieved reality in Western nations.  And you don't think these political partys haven't noticed that? 

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by outfctrl

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by outfctrl

Well, I know of one more Republican.  my Son turned 18 and is getting his voter registration card.  REPUBLICAN

I have twins(boy/girl) that are 16, both are hard core Republicans.  When they turn 18, two more.

They have conveyed to me the fear of socialism and excessive spending.

All are Catholic too.

It is just a matter of time until the Dems fall.

The only way for the dems to fall is for the republicans to change their ways.

What were you suggesting with your kids? That the republican party is somehow on the rise because your three kids are now republicans?

If all 3 of them have the same political views to the point you even call them "hard core Republican" and share the same religion before they even turned 18, I think they have been brainwashed by their family right from the start.

I seriously doubt your kids have a true political standpoint of their own.

All through the election my kids were made fun of for being Conservative. None of them believe in Global warming either.  They even came to me and told me that. 

My kids have made their own mind up.   None of my views were pushed on them, none.  In fact, they all believe in Intelligent design and have showed me books on it.

So you didn't send them to private christian schools, also known as the right wing utopia?
After reading your posts here, I don't believe for a second that those kids grew up in an unbiased environment.
Weren't you also raised with very strict christianity when you were young? I remember you saying that in a previous thread.

 

 

Yes, I went to private Catholic Schools and all  my kids are going too.  Now, unbiased in who's opinion? Two of my kids are going to get scholarships to college.  Am I proud?  of course.  Not once did they complain about how hard it is.  The education is superior to public schools. 

Originally posted by peaceandlove

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by baff

Originally posted by peaceandlove

That's why we indoctrinate our children very young in our public schools.

Like I was saying in another thread. I volunteer for a Gay Rights Organization, we go speak in public schools from kindergarden to 6th graders about Homosexuality. We teach them that Gay people are normal people just like them and that it is very American to stand up to somebody that treats Gays badly. We have them sign our Pledge Cards and everything. It's a good feeling knowing that we help little children. Soon nobody will hate Gays for who we are.

 

I should imagine there are a lot of parents out there that would like to murder you.

They would, if it wasn't blatantly obvious that peaceandlove is clearly trolling.

Seriously, "pledge cards" to not hate gays? Do you actually believe the shit this idiot is spouting off?

You mean these Pledge Cards and these schools?
 

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,445865,00.html

www.drudge.com/archive/114485/school-wants-kids-sign-gay-pledge-cards

www.nationalrepublicrat.com/teacher-has-kindergartners-sign-gay-pledge-cards/

Here's a link where I volunteer www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/all/home/index.html

Passed out in Kindergarten? You have to be kidding.  I would be pissed.

Originally posted by peaceandlove

Originally posted by outfctrl

Originally posted by peaceandlove

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by baff

Originally posted by peaceandlove

That's why we indoctrinate our children very young in our public schools.

Like I was saying in another thread. I volunteer for a Gay Rights Organization, we go speak in public schools from kindergarden to 6th graders about Homosexuality. We teach them that Gay people are normal people just like them and that it is very American to stand up to somebody that treats Gays badly. We have them sign our Pledge Cards and everything. It's a good feeling knowing that we help little children. Soon nobody will hate Gays for who we are.

 

I should imagine there are a lot of parents out there that would like to murder you.

They would, if it wasn't blatantly obvious that peaceandlove is clearly trolling.

Seriously, "pledge cards" to not hate gays? Do you actually believe the shit this idiot is spouting off?

You mean these Pledge Cards and these schools?
 

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,445865,00.html

www.drudge.com/archive/114485/school-wants-kids-sign-gay-pledge-cards

www.nationalrepublicrat.com/teacher-has-kindergartners-sign-gay-pledge-cards/

Here's a link where I volunteer www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/all/home/index.html

Passed out in Kindergarten? You have to be kidding.  I would be pissed.

Well, we go to schools all over the country all year round. We try to get to kindergarden classes because then we know the following year, the kids in 1st grade have already been done and we can just focus on the new children.
 

What's so bad about it? Shouldn't children be able to take a break from math and science and learn about some real world issues that they will face from time to time? Plus, it teaches them tolerance of others and maybe, those who may be Gay, can feel ok with being who they are and not afraid.

Whats so bad about it?  School is for academia....not social education.  Thats the parents job, not yours.  How would you feel if an Evangelical group visited your child's kindegarden class and tried pushing Mormanisim, or Catholasism?  How would you feel if someone came to visit your 5-6 year old about abortion and made them see what dead featuses look like?

All of the above have no place in school where the children are a captive audience.  It should be by choice of their legal guardian.

By you spreading "tolerance", your are not tolerating a parents right to teach their children the way they see fit.  Total contradiction!

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by outfctrl
Mark my words.  All you people who thought you would be getting a tax cut is a dream.  Your tax cut is out the window.  With all Obamas spending, he is going to have to pay for it.  How?  You.
All his promises are going out the window and you liberals believed every word.
Now we are going to have Government control of banks, car manufacturers, credit card companies and many more.  You have just bought into a socialist state.   Whats the word?....umm...lets see.....
GULLIBLE!
HAHA
Oh, I forgot....Bend over

---

 

Post Office.

Firemen.

Police Officers.

Libraries.

Medicare/Medicaid.

Amtrak.

Education system.

 

 

We've had these socialized things for years in the United States and most times they work fantastically. I don't fear more democratic socialization. Why do you?

 

The post office is not a great example of government efficiency.   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28897426/  

It operates in the red but likes most government operations that doesn't matter because Uncle Sam is there to bail them out (Irony that Uncle Sam operates in the red also).    So the true cost of first class mail is not 44 cents but something higher with the extra cost passed on to others.   (Yay socialization)

Imagine if Fedex or UPS ran a deficit each year they would go out of business.   This happened to DHL.    They HAVE TO offer service at a competive price.     The post office doesn't (like government run monopolies).   Front door mail is a thing of the past.   Newer neighborhoods have kiosks where customers have to go get it.    If they don't like then tough for them.   If Fedex or UPS tried to do the same the other company would eat their lunch (as it should  free market principles)

Hell yes I fear democratic socialization.  

Originally posted by DailyBuzz

Originally posted by Faxxer

no, this gallup poll is just another attempt to try and pile on, but everyone on the left doesn't see the massive wave people that have had enough and are going to make a change into a better direction.   I encourage you all to keep on thinking that conservatives are the minority...that way I can enjoy your horror come the next election cycle.  the term "knashing of teeth" comes to mind actually. lol

 

I had a strange flashback when I read that post Faxxer. The term "nashing of teeth" came to mind, indeed.

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/209744/page/1

Care to make it 0 for 2? You make predictions as well as you spell.

Gnashing at the bit, aren't you

You made a poor choice. When Germany put Hittler in power, they made a poor choice too didn't they....Boy he was such a great speaker too. 

It's pretty sad you didn't bother to look up my post the day Obama won either. 

in my opinion the same thing is happening to the republican party that has already happened to the democrats, for the most part.

Look at the democratic party since the vietnam war, you have conservative democrats(very middleish),  Liberal greenpeace envirnomental democrats, Flat out way way way way left liberals that call themselves the green party, Union democrats who support jobs in america and industry far above environmentalism but aren't opposed to it, and i could go on.

Right now the splits in the republican party i am seeing,. Right wing religious republicans sometimes called the silent majority(i think this is dying out because a lot of these people are people who got pushed this far right by demonstrators spitting on coffins in the vietnam war, and forever associated that with the color blue), moderate conservatives who want there guns don't mind gay marriage and such, anti big government republicans who believe the federal government should be as small as possible, etc.

I think that the republian party has just been far more unified and now that unification is starting to break, the party is by no means dying or such it is subdividing and changing.

This is just my opinion if i were to put myself into one of these categories i would be more of a conservative democrat.

Originally posted by qazyman

As long as Rush and Cheney are front and center the republicans are DOA. This is a real problem for the party because they are not as adept at change as the Democrats. They are in the same place the liberals were after the nation rejected there core ideology in the 70's, and it wasn't until Clinton taught the party how not to be liberal that they begin to rebound. I know it is hard, but conservatives will have to find a way to not be so conservative but still retain there core identity. I think it will take the republicans longer than it did the democrats.

Interesting, because it seems as though Cheney has got President Obama playing defense right now with all the speeches he's been giving.  Cheney, who's affectionately referred to as the dark lord by liberals, has seen his approval rating jump by eight points since he's gone on his speaking tour.  And the media arm of the White House, MSNBC, spent the entire day ripping Cheney's speech before the American Enterprise Institute.  A network doesn't do that to someone who is hurting his party.

---

Originally posted by Porfat

The post office is not a great example of government efficiency.   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28897426/  
It operates in the red but likes most government operations that doesn't matter because Uncle Sam is there to bail them out (Irony that Uncle Sam operates in the red also).    So the true cost of first class mail is not 44 cents but something higher with the extra cost passed on to others.   (Yay socialization)
Imagine if Fedex or UPS ran a deficit each year they would go out of business.   This happened to DHL.    They HAVE TO offer service at a competive price.     The post office doesn't (like government run monopolies).   Front door mail is a thing of the past.   Newer neighborhoods have kiosks where customers have to go get it.    If they don't like then tough for them.   If Fedex or UPS tried to do the same the other company would eat their lunch (as it should  free market principles)
Hell yes I fear democratic socialization. 

---

With things like the Post Office, it's not always about turning a profit. Sometimes its about jobs and the economy.

---

The United States Postal Service employs over 785,000 workers, making it the third-largest[1] employer in the United States, after the United States Department of Defense[2] and Wal-Mart.[3] Its employees deliver mail at an average yearly cost of $235 per residence as of 2009.[4]

---

Companies like DHL only employ a few people (40,000 employees), UPS (425,300 employees) and Fed Ex (252,000 employees) and quite a few of those employees are worldwide. When these companies compete against each other or other market forces cause them to shrink, that would be tons of jobs lost immediately, and a disruption in regular mail service if it was all split up between capitalists.

I would never want UPS to be in charge of my mail because the fees that they would be able to raise anytime they wanted would be astronomical. There seems to be a mistaken philosophy that if there is competition, that prices will ALWAYS go down, giving the consumer choices. Sure the Post Office raises prices on stamps every once in awhile... by two cents. I doubt private companies would do that.

UPS workers want to go on strike? Whoops, sorry John Q. Public, no mail for you this week or until the contract is settled. It is ILLEGAL for US Postal workers to go on strike, something which a private company could never guarantee and this is why it's subsidized. To keep the country's business running no matter what, even through times of war. During the Depression if the US mail was privatized, it would have collasped. For that protection, I don't mind subsidizing it.

There is no way that that UPS could go door/door and deliver everything the USPS has to deliver at some kind of reduced cost and make a profit. You do realize that their are tons of small towns and citizens who don't just simply live in the cities? UPS would simply take those people off their route because it would be too cost effective to drive out to certain places to deliver a 44 cent postcard. Mail has to be hand delivered, it's not like when Ma Bell was broken up into smaller units. You don't have to "deliver" phone calls; once lines were up that was it. Mail is a different animal.

How would you have the mail service split up in the country among different companies? These other companies would simply cut back in areas they cannot reach or service, as many do right now. There are places that these companies don't deliver to and they don't deliver every day. That's with packages so imagine UPS coming to your house to deliver one piece of mail? Nope, they wouldn't do it for 44 cents.

---

This is where the story really gets good. I proceed to call the Federal Express 800 number, ask for a supervisor because I really didn't want to unload on some poor hourly worker and I demand to know why my package, as was promised by the nice, polite and ernest dispatcher on Saturday, is not going to be delivered today. I was told, and get ready for this one,

" Sir, Federal Express doesn't provide delivery on Mondays."

After I got back up in my chair, I asked, really, Federal Express doesn't deliver on Mondays? To which I was told that because my phone hardware company had indicated on the delivery order that this was a " Home delivery " as opposed to a " Business Delivery" that I fell under home delivery system rules and that Federal Express does not provide delivery to homes or residences on Mondays.

Really? Never mind that the reason they didn't deliver on Saturday was because the driver thought we were a BUSINESS and might not be around, or that the delivery was to THE LEGAL BROADCAST NETWORK, hardly a home based business, or that the address is in a business park. No, what stunned me was that the Phoenix office of Federal Express that handles home delivery is CLOSED ON MONDAYS! As in they can't even take a phone call. As in they can't even open the door if I want to drive down and get my package myself. As in they only work 5 days a week in a recessionary environment and decided, well, they just don't like Mondays.

I called my phone hardware provider, who uses Federal Express on a regular basis, and they apologized for improperly coding the delivery as home delivery, but expressed the same astonishment that Federal Express simply decided as a business decision to not deliver packages on Mondays, a day which is historically the most important day of the week to recieve packages.

---

There is a reason that those companies you mentioned are in the FREIGHT business and not the mail business. They simply wouldn't be able to make a good enough profit on handling mail for 44 cents. Try to send the same letter for 44 cents by UPS, FedEx, or DHL by their cheapest method. Now, how much does that cost you? Not so efficient either. The sheer volume of passenger mail and the logistics involved makes it impossible to be outsourced to any private company.

You say the true cost isn't 44 cents and they operate in the red. Police departments don't turn a profit, neither do libraries. Certain things for the common good are not always about a bottom line. I have no idea why people assume capitalism could deliver mail at a cheaper price more efficiently, when those people have problems delivering packages at a reasonable price now.

I like getting my mail everyday except Sunday, around the same time through any kind of weather without ANY excuses, for 44 cents.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by Porfat

The post office is not a great example of government efficiency.   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28897426/  
It operates in the red but likes most government operations that doesn't matter because Uncle Sam is there to bail them out (Irony that Uncle Sam operates in the red also).    So the true cost of first class mail is not 44 cents but something higher with the extra cost passed on to others.   (Yay socialization)
Imagine if Fedex or UPS ran a deficit each year they would go out of business.   This happened to DHL.    They HAVE TO offer service at a competive price.     The post office doesn't (like government run monopolies).   Front door mail is a thing of the past.   Newer neighborhoods have kiosks where customers have to go get it.    If they don't like then tough for them.   If Fedex or UPS tried to do the same the other company would eat their lunch (as it should  free market principles)
Hell yes I fear democratic socialization. 

---

 

With things like the Post Office, it's not always about turning a profit. Sometimes its about jobs and the economy.

 

---

The United States Postal Service employs over 785,000 workers, making it the third-largest[1] employer in the United States, after the United States Department of Defense[2] and Wal-Mart.[3] Its employees deliver mail at an average yearly cost of $235 per residence as of 2009.[4]

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Companies like DHL only employ a few people (40,000 employees), UPS (425,300 employees) and Fed Ex (252,000 employees) and quite a few of those employees are worldwide. When these companies compete against each other or other market forces cause them to shrink, that would be tons of jobs lost immediately, and a disruption in regular mail service if it was all split up between capitalists.

I would never want UPS to be in charge of my mail because the fees that they would be able to raise anytime they wanted would be astronomical. There seems to be a mistaken philosophy that if there is competition, that prices will ALWAYS go down, giving the consumer choices. Sure the Post Office raises prices on stamps every once in awhile... by two cents. I doubt private companies would do that.

 

 

UPS workers want to go on strike? Whoops, sorry John Q. Public, no mail for you this week or until the contract is settled. It is ILLEGAL for US Postal workers to go on strike, something which a private company could never guarantee and this is why it's subsidized. To keep the country's business running no matter what, even through times of war. During the Depression if the US mail was privatized, it would have collasped. For that protection, I don't mind subsidizing it.

 

 

There is no way that that UPS could go door/door and deliver everything the USPS has to deliver at some kind of reduced cost and make a profit. You do realize that their are tons of small towns and citizens who don't just simply live in the cities? UPS would simply take those people off their route because it would be too cost effective to drive out to certain places to deliver a 44 cent postcard. Mail has to be hand delivered, it's not like when Ma Bell was broken up into smaller units. You don't have to "deliver" phone calls; once lines were up that was it. Mail is a different animal.

 

 

How would you have the mail service split up in the country among different companies? These other companies would simply cut back in areas they cannot reach or service, as many do right now. There are places that these companies don't deliver to and they don't deliver every day. That's with packages so imagine UPS coming to your house to deliver one piece of mail? Nope, they wouldn't do it for 44 cents.

 

 

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This is where the story really gets good. I proceed to call the Federal Express 800 number, ask for a supervisor because I really didn't want to unload on some poor hourly worker and I demand to know why my package, as was promised by the nice, polite and ernest dispatcher on Saturday, is not going to be delivered today. I was told, and get ready for this one,

 

" Sir, Federal Express doesn't provide delivery on Mondays."

After I got back up in my chair, I asked, really, Federal Express doesn't deliver on Mondays? To which I was told that because my phone hardware company had indicated on the delivery order that this was a " Home delivery " as opposed to a " Business Delivery" that I fell under home delivery system rules and that Federal Express does not provide delivery to homes or residences on Mondays.

Really? Never mind that the reason they didn't deliver on Saturday was because the driver thought we were a BUSINESS and might not be around, or that the delivery was to THE LEGAL BROADCAST NETWORK, hardly a home based business, or that the address is in a business park. No, what stunned me was that the Phoenix office of Federal Express that handles home delivery is CLOSED ON MONDAYS! As in they can't even take a phone call. As in they can't even open the door if I want to drive down and get my package myself. As in they only work 5 days a week in a recessionary environment and decided, well, they just don't like Mondays.

I called my phone hardware provider, who uses Federal Express on a regular basis, and they apologized for improperly coding the delivery as home delivery, but expressed the same astonishment that Federal Express simply decided as a business decision to not deliver packages on Mondays, a day which is historically the most important day of the week to recieve packages.

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There is a reason that those companies you mentioned are in the FREIGHT business and not the mail business. They simply wouldn't be able to make a good enough profit on handling mail for 44 cents. Try to send the same letter for 44 cents by UPS, FedEx, or DHL by their cheapest method. Now, how much does that cost you? Not so efficient either. The sheer volume of passenger mail and the logistics involved makes it impossible to be outsourced to any private company.

 

You say the true cost isn't 44 cents and they operate in the red. Police departments don't turn a profit, neither do libraries. Certain things for the common good are not always about a bottom line. I have no idea why people assume capitalism could deliver mail at a cheaper price more efficiently, when those people have problems delivering packages at a reasonable price now.

 

I like getting my mail everyday except Sunday, around the same time through any kind of weather without ANY excuses, for 44 cents.

 

 

Seriusly Dude how Mutch of the Crap the USPS Brings to your Door Daily Do you Honestly want? Not mutch of anything Here.

Its filled With Tons of Crap and Useless Cupons ect. Everything I Want to come in the mail Comes By UPS or Fedex.

Stop makeing it sound like some Worthy Industry. Its Not. These arn't Firemen, Police, Or Librians. They are Costing Us a Ton of Money to Ship Tons of Crap around the country 90% Of it More than likely Gets thrown away everyday.

This Is a Huge waste Of Money, Paper, Gas, And Man power. Nothing More.