/*begin edit*/I have edited this post to contain more accurate information/*end edit*/

I thought my methodology for counting clans was flawed, because I didn't eliminate duplicate clans. There shouldn't be duplicates, but there were (31 in the list I created this morning).  It appears that  I was getting duplicates due to the manner in which I was sorting the data and the way the clan jounal queried data when  moving from page to page.  I was copying/pasting each page in the browse clans screens after first having sorted the clans by count, in descending order.  This gave me biggest to smallest.  Unfortunately, as I scrolled through the pages, especially once I reached those clans with only 1 member, clans would show up on multiple screens.  It bothered me that I was getting so many duplicates, so I came back this afternoon to copy/paste again.  This time I sorted by clan name instead of count.  When I tallied the figures in my spreadsheet, I didn't have any duplicates and the clan count matched the count on the journal screen, so it's accurate as of the time I copied the file.

As such, the current Clan Membership Tally, as of this afternoon, May 23, 2009, is:

15055

Please note:

• I copied and pasted the numbers directly out of the clan journal, which listed 791 clans over 40 pages
• I deleted the races and leader columns.  The races are pasted in as pictures that overlap these two columns and take up a ton of resources, especially when trying to publish over the web
• There were 0 duplicate clans.  My count of clans matched the browse clan total number of clans.
• Based on this newer, more accurate methodology, I went back to my original spreadsheets  I had eliminated 4 duplicates from the first list on May 1st.  In that instance, I had hand-entered every single clan based on screen shots I took from the game, so there was a possible degree of user input error. Based on my screenshots, I didn't sort the clans in any order at all, I just took screenshots and moved from page to page.  The manner in which Aventurine queries their clans from page to page most likely accounts for the duplicates, since I didn't find them until I sorted the spreadsheet by clan after data entry. At this point,the true counts are now:
  • May 01, 2009 - >= 15882, possibly >= 15935 (the first count I did).  Since the clans might have duplicated on screens as I queried them, there's also a likelihood that some clan's weren't returned at all as I went from screen to screen.  This is a good baseline, but it's not 100% accurate
  • May 18, 2009 - 14973 - net decrease of 909 Can't reliably use the  May 18th numbers since I had sorted the data in the browse clans screenprior to copy/pasting the data, which caused duplicates when querying the database from each subsequent screen. 
  • May 23, 2009 - 15055 (validated total number of clans copied to total clans listed online) - net dercrease of at least 827 since original count on May 1st

So, I can't provide exact numbers of clan increases/decreases since the shop opened, due to the error in my methodology in gathering the May 18th data. As you can see, since May 1st, some clans have had increases  (Blood, for example).  I've been playing in and around the Alfar starting city Akathos in the last week, however,  and I havent't seen any significant player increases in that area. There did seem to be a few new players, but certainly not many.  Of course, that's anecdotal evidence, not empirical. Regardless, based on the validated counts from today, total clan members have gone down at least 827 since May 1st.

~Ripper

Cool story

my clan is truly a zerg. second place on the sheet

Sounds like hyperion got steamrolled and quit. lol they had around 1500 member, some joined dusk/death right?

Also is this only alliances? because this is not all the clans in this game.

I cant see it because it freezes.

Yeah I had access of important intel during raids from hyperion so we knew their every move and destroyed them and took their cities one by one. They probably got frustrated by the fact that they spent so many hours building up their cities and now everything is lost. I truly feel sorry for their "king mannus" and now the whole territory that they used to own is boring because the cities remaining are uninhabitated.

Originally posted by Izure

Sounds like hyperion got steamrolled and quit. lol they had around 1500 member, some joined dusk/death right?

Also is this only alliances? because this is not all the clans in this game.

I cant see it because it freezes.

This list is comprised of every clan in the game, as of the time I had the clan screens open.  I literally copied and pasted directly out of the clan screens in the journal. 

~Ripper

Nice.

Does this count inactive clans / players?

Originally posted by Izure

Sounds like hyperion got steamrolled and quit. lol they had around 1500 member, some joined dusk/death right?

Also is this only alliances? because this is not all the clans in this game.

I cant see it because it freezes.

???

Is it just me or do the two sentences I high-lighted make absolutely no sense?

Umm... if you can not see "it" (by it do you mean the spreadsheet?) then how do you know it is not all the clans?

As rhinok has shown... it is all the clans.

Originally posted by Devour

Does this count inactive clans / players?

Rhinok will have to specify, but it looks to include every player who is a both a subscriber AND a member of a clan.  The only players not counted would be those currently NOT a member of any clan.

I'm sure that we will soon be hearing that at least 50% of those currently playing are NOT a member of a clan. 

Originally posted by Devour

Does this count inactive clans / players?

It's my understanding that the clan count includes inactive players who didn't drop from the clans prior to leaving the game or weren't purged by the clan leaders.  Other players confirmed that when I posted my last results, so unless that's changed, it's still the case.  Some clans, especially larger ones, probably do a better job of purging their members than small ones.

FYI - here's an alliance count:

LInky...

~Ripper

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by Devour

Does this count inactive clans / players?

It's my understanding that the clan count includes inactive players who didn't drop from the clans prior to leaving the game or weren't purged by the clan leaders.  Other players confirmed that when I posted my last results.

~Ripper

Ahh... thanks for the clarification rhinok.

So then it would probably be safe to say that the percentage included in the count; but are no longer subscribing, is fairly close to the percentage of those who are not counted because they are not a member of any clan.

Thanks again.

So...

Now granted, I know my #'s are not 100% accurate, I am sure they have expenses and possibly some investor payouts to make....but are you telling me there isn't enough revenue left to open an NA server?

Pulled from the official boards:

Today, 05:22 PM
blahblah Normal User   Join Date: Apr 2009	Quote: Originally Posted by Izure  Its not a little less than 15000 in all clans, on May 1st, there was 1000 more. Is dfo dying or is hyperion leaving and carebears leaving? dude the clan list shit is busted... we have people still listed as part of our clan that left over a month ago.. as in quit the game.. we even have people who are in our clan that rerolled a new char and joined up again.. both chars are listed in the clan.. so basically those numbers are useless

"Those numbers are useless" ?  Only in the sense that his comments prove the maximum count is inflated.  As such, the true count is lower, possibly much lower.

~Ripper

I think they are polishing and adding in neccessary content this next month or 2 or three. Until new server, they want this game to be nice polished with more content I believe, before they make a official release, IMO.

you repeated what he said right ripper?

Originally posted by Vampirian28

So...

 

# Players	Box cost	Sub cost	Total Rev
14995	59.95	15.95	$1,377,290.75
# Not in Clan	Box cost	Sub cost	Total Rev
2999	59.95	15.95	$275,458.15
# that quit during 30 day trial			Total Rev
2999			$179,790.05
Total Revenue			$1,832,538.95

Now granted, I know my #'s are not 100% accurate, I am sure they have expenses and possibly some investor payouts to make....but are you telling me there isn't enough revenue left to open an NA server?

Even if you are close, that's 1 million VS. How many they borrowed over the 8 year development time? Investors get paid back first, before profit.

Originally posted by Vampirian28

<snip>

They took out a ten million euro loan... In the middle of an economic crisis. Don't be expecting them to be doing much in terms of cash spent for a few YEARS.

Also, @ Rhinok, is this only active clans? Because I can't imagine many clans still playing the game if they're not part of an Alliance.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Vampirian28

So...

 

# Players	Box cost	Sub cost	Total Rev
14995	59.95	15.95	$1,377,290.75
# Not in Clan	Box cost	Sub cost	Total Rev
2999	59.95	15.95	$275,458.15
# that quit during 30 day trial			Total Rev
2999			$179,790.05
Total Revenue			$1,832,538.95

Now granted, I know my #'s are not 100% accurate, I am sure they have expenses and possibly some investor payouts to make....but are you telling me there isn't enough revenue left to open an NA server?

Even if you are close, that's 1 million VS. How many they borrowed over the 8 year development time? Investors get paid back first, before profit.

 

I understand that....normal business practice is to increase the loan amount by 20-30% to make payments while no cash reserves exist. So if they did that in the middle of 2008 then they still have money left. It is probably a short term loan meaning 3-5 years with a baloon payment at the end to make the payments manageable.
 

Bottom line is they are doing ok, and should have the cash flow to add a new server which willincrease box sales and subscription residuals.

At this point in the game (I agreed with slow growt when announced) I am not sure I agree with the draging of feet on additional servers. Doesn't make sense from a business model standpoint.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Vampirian28

So...

 

# Players	Box cost	Sub cost	Total Rev
14995	59.95	15.95	$1,377,290.75
# Not in Clan	Box cost	Sub cost	Total Rev
2999	59.95	15.95	$275,458.15
# that quit during 30 day trial			Total Rev
2999			$179,790.05
Total Revenue			$1,832,538.95

Now granted, I know my #'s are not 100% accurate, I am sure they have expenses and possibly some investor payouts to make....but are you telling me there isn't enough revenue left to open an NA server?

Even if you are close, that's 1 million VS. How many they borrowed over the 8 year development time? Investors get paid back first, before profit.

 

<3 mrbloodworth, this true, but I think a lot of the one who signed up at first are not shown in the clan lists, not to mention that the cheaters banned earlier did not get updated out of clans til a few patches ago. But yes they are stupid for their state of launch, and the state of the game it was in, they should of just waited a few more months(if they could of) or have a open beta for a month or two. but now they might get killed by  MO if it is what it is and if dfo does not change drastically.