You can not sugar coat a turd, they tried with vanguard and failed hard. You can not do the same with DDO bro

Originally posted by Blackice09

Originally posted by Liljna

 You 'need' to repeat dungeons to get xp. The normal is to run a dungeon 3 times on normal difficult, then 3 times on hard and finally 3 times on elite. I think it has loosened up a little since I played, but you are still forced to repeat dungeons to get enough xp.

When you want to lvl up fast you can do this on the quests that give the most xp. The normal thing for me is once on normal and hard. Sometimes once elite for xp. Mostly once elite for the extra favor it gives. I get to lvl 16 with doing maybe 50-60% of all quests atleast once.
This means you can really enjoy each quest and play them all once on hard for example. There are currently more then enough quests, you dont really need to repeat any if you do them all. Once again it's up to you if you want to repeat quests. You dont need to, in DDO you can do what you think is fun.

*shrug* I don't know why we have such different experience with the game. I ran stuff on normal once and ran out of content before I was good enough to take the same dungeons on hard.

I didn't play in full groups though, mostly small groups with 1-2 other people. So perhaps you are right, you can just do stuff once, if you can find a full group for it.

I was seldom able to find full groups, sometimes people simply didn't want to be grouped with a new player with no twink gear, other times there simply wasn't enough people. So I normally ran stuff alone on normal (solo dungeons gives absolutely zip in xp), or with 1-2 other people.

This is one of the reasons why I say I 'had' to run stuff 3 times, to squeeze as much exp out of the dungeons as I possible could.

So when you say 'in DDO you can do what you think is fun', I wish it was true. But it was not the experience I had during the months of playtime I have in the game. And when I look at the population, this thread and the newbie boards, I can see I am not alone in this experience.

But I'm glad you are having fun and have a completely different experience than mine :)

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by cukimunga

I would say DDO has some of the best Dungeons and Quests its just to bad its not a open world even if it was just zoned it would have been better than instancing pretty much everything.   The only thing that I didn't like about the game was people wanted to grind the same dungeons to get gear.  I know its not the games fault but they should have made it so that you can't do a dungeon again once you've completed it once.  Just like in PnP DnD you can't do the same quests over and over again.

 

DDO isn't a gem. I tried it. I agreee with the post above. Doing dungeons on easy, medium, and hard, is not very fun. Also did not like the clickety clickety combat that didn't really add anything, except tired fingers from clicking the mouse.

I did like the way treasure dropped. One chest, and everyone in the party got a pull from the chest. No ninja looting, no platemail for the wizard, or magic wand for the fighter, no "need before greed" arguments, it was a great solution for loot IMO.

The Dungeons And Dragons 4th Edition was supposted to have an online component, where you get an online map, a Dungeon master that could control monsters, 3d monsters and player characters. You played with a DM, the software calculated the damage, and the DM tells the story, you play with voice chat, or typed chat.

Now THAT I was looking forward to, but I don'tk now what happened to it.

Yeah Ihmotepp  the loot system was great you got what you could wear no arguing and it was nice.  

Yeah I was looking forward to the DnD insider which is what I think it was called but its the name of a Magazine as well.  But if they do release it I would pay 10 bucks a month to get on in some DnD action.  It may not have flashy graphics and a ton of people playing but atleast I'll get my party fix.    I get tired of playing solo most of the time in MMO's because nobody likes to party.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Atari does not own DDO, they own the D&D IP that is all.  Turbine has to consult with them when it comes to rulesets differing from the D&D design, but that is Atari's only connection with the game.   Next time get your facts straight.

Despite criticism above, the game is not bad and well maintained by Turbine.  Shame more people don't try it, it is well done considering the limitations of the D&D ruleset.

Actually WOTC is the final decider on ruleset changbes not Atari. Atari is supposed to doing the advertising and you can see what a great job they do there.

I have to question the well maintained part. Lag is terrible and Turbine to save money has farmed out the servers. They have failed the player base in maintaining this game of late.

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Actually WOTC is the final decider on ruleset changbes not Atari. Atari is supposed to doing the advertising and you can see what a great job they do there.

 

I have to question the well maintained part. Lag is terrible and Turbine to save money has farmed out the servers. They have failed the player base in maintaining this game of late.

Long time ago since Atari did something right, I'm still upset about what them and Obsidian turned "Neverwinter nights 2" into.

But yes, DDO isn't doing as well as it should. Maybe they should turn it into a F2P game, or sell ok priced life time subscriptions like you get when you buy Guildwars (which seems to be the game that took most players from DDO).

Been there, done it and read the book...

*Grabs Pen *& Paper and plays D&D the way it's supposed to be*

About Atari owning D&D...? WTF? D&D originates from TSR (Gary Gygax's work), who went bankrupt in 1997 and bought by WOTC. Later WOTC was bought by Hasbro (who in turn is bought by some other party later on).

Atari only has a licence to make D&D as computer games, one that you actually don't need, since D20 is open source, and i you use that, everyone can make a D&D alike game (thought D&D is a TM'd name).

About the whole part you wrote... I've played DDO. Compared it to PnP (A)D&D, compared it to other games, and I think DDO sucks balls. Not even the DX10 graphics look nice...

The problem with DDO is that there is this game called Guild Wars which is free and quite similar.

DDO shines in a few places;

1) Character customization - Let's face it, most MMOs today are designed with next to zero character customization because it's easier to balance. And because it's easier for newbies and/or retards, which is what most MMOs today are designed for since they think anything remotely complex or difficult is just too much for the majority of their user base to handle. DDO is right up there with Shadowbane in the depth and awesomeness of its character customization. 

2) Grouping/Quests - This is DnD. The emphasis on forced grouping and instanced quests should be obvious. Again, DDO does this very well compared with your average run of the mill theme park MMO "go kill 10 rats and then run around delivering love letters" quests. The problem is, like every MMO, there is not enough content. The 25th time you do some quest it doesn't particularly matter how good it is. It's long since become a mean to an end and not something you actually enjoy doing. With DDO this is even more troublesome seeing as how there is... uh, nothing else to do in the game.

I grab a trial every now and agin to see if they have fixed everything Ken Troop screwed up. The only way to do that would be to delete the code and start over,only this time put it in the Forgotten Realms.

Originally posted by Reizla

Been there, done it and read the book...

*Grabs Pen *& Paper and plays D&D the way it's supposed to be*

About Atari owning D&D...? WTF? D&D originates from TSR (Gary Gygax's work), who went bankrupt in 1997 and bought by WOTC. Later WOTC was bought by Hasbro (who in turn is bought by some other party later on).

Atari only has a licence to make D&D as computer games, one that you actually don't need, since D20 is open source, and i you use that, everyone can make a D&D alike game (thought D&D is a TM'd name).

About the whole part you wrote... I've played DDO. Compared it to PnP (A)D&D, compared it to other games, and I think DDO sucks balls. Not even the DX10 graphics look nice...

DDO is the best MMO out there in my opinion. Atari owns all licensing right to create D&D based games to date. No, no one else can do it if they don't allow it.

I played most of the MMOs out there, starting with MUDs, Ultima Online, going through many like WoW, LotrO, WAR, GW, AoC, and free to play, like now - hack 'n slash Warrior Epic, which rips of DDO in some places - but lacks the depth, quests, narration and active combat of DDO. AoC is a DDO rip off too, to some extent.

This tells much, and DDO suffers ONLY becasue Atari didn't like to advertise it after rough start, which probably brought them losses. ONLY Atari can advertise DDO to date, however I smell something's changing now...

If DDO had much bigger population (and it's now bigger than few months ago, even with this mysterious "announcements" which hold Mod 9), it would shine. And I think it still may shine, because Turbine is working on something DDO behind the scenes. According to recent interviews, the announcement about it may come soon.

Lecture:

vault.ign.com/View.php
www.zam.com/story.html

Those are the most recent interviews. Long wait may soon end.

Someone should write into Mythbusters about this whole "sugar coating a turd" thing :P

Other than that I have no opinion here past everyone should be allowed to enjoy waht they enjoy and try to share that with others.

I tried getting into D&D, but I couldn't get any of my friends to give it a go.  Even my friends that played D&D (pen/paper/dice) before just didn't want to give this game a try... and yes, they do play other MMO's. 

While D&D was the original 'fantasy' game to me, well before I played computer based games, it entered the MMORPG realm too little, too late in the fight.  It's just one of the hundreds of watered down, bastardized titles out there now. 

The lore and history of D&D is a great one.  The format, style, and way that D&D is portrayed in DDO just doesn't pull me in though. 

I have circled back to DDO a few times to give it another try, but each time... it feels more lonely and vacant than the time before.  Ultimately, reading a book about the legend/lore is more fulfilling than playing the game.

Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Reizla

Been there, done it and read the book...

*Grabs Pen *& Paper and plays D&D the way it's supposed to be*

 

DDO is the best MMO out there in my opinion. Atari owns all licensing right to create D&D based games to date. No, no one else can do it if they don't allow it.

There you have a good point: in my opinion...

My guess is you didn't play (A)D&D on pen & paper, the way it's supposed to be..? If you did, you'd hate DDO as much as half the community here. DDO has absolutely nothing to do with D&D the way Gygax wanted, or Keith Baker's Eberron... Okay, they took the game system and the setting, but that's about it...

Originally posted by BlackWatch

I tried getting into D&D, but I couldn't get any of my friends to give it a go.  Even my friends that played D&D (pen/paper/dice) before just didn't want to give this game a try... and yes, they do play other MMO's. 

While D&D was the original 'fantasy' game to me, well before I played computer based games, it entered the MMORPG realm too little, too late in the fight.  It's just one of the hundreds of watered down, bastardized titles out there now. 

The lore and history of D&D is a great one.  The format, style, and way that D&D is portrayed in DDO just doesn't pull me in though. 

I have circled back to DDO a few times to give it another try, but each time... it feels more lonely and vacant than the time before.  Ultimately, reading a book about the legend/lore is more fulfilling than playing the game.

This all changes if there's more people to play with, trust me. After you have some friends, or join a guild, you start to have a hard time playing other MMOs - as they feel lacking in comparison with DDO!

Yes, population should raise to change it, some old rushers should leave (they're already bored, so why playing?), and then all will be fine.

Additionally, this feeling of "desolation" or emptiness in DDO will change soon. Did you notice how General Channel is silent in DDO? This will change, there will be much more interaction in Mod 9. 3 defalult channels: General & new Advice + Trade channels will be global (or I'd say "major hub centered"). Now you can't use General from inside a quest or any instance you adventure in, but after Mod 9 is live you'll be able to use those 3 channels at any time.

This will probably make a huge difference, especially in conjuction with other UI changes like Quest Sharing, Map improvements, Loot All buttons, improved targetting system, improved wands, and many other changes. There are even changes to PvP - you'll be able to challenge every player for a PvP match by clicking on him. They you choose rules, arena (or set it to random), etc. Up to 6 vs. 6 players may fight on arenas.

There's much more to that. I bet that this FALSE (trust me!) feeling of emptiness will soon be gone from DDO. All factors are being changed, from making the world more open to UI and other things.

Originally posted by Reizla

Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Reizla

Been there, done it and read the book...

*Grabs Pen *& Paper and plays D&D the way it's supposed to be*

 

DDO is the best MMO out there in my opinion. Atari owns all licensing right to create D&D based games to date. No, no one else can do it if they don't allow it.

 

There you have a good point: in my opinion...

My guess is you didn't play (A)D&D on pen & paper, the way it's supposed to be..? If you did, you'd hate DDO as much as half the community here. DDO has absolutely nothing to do with D&D the way Gygax wanted, or Keith Baker's Eberron... Okay, they took the game system and the setting, but that's about it...

No, you're wrong : ). I'm an experienced Dungeon Master, who played Ad&d before 3e, then 3.5 and this new 4e. I've written many adventures for various sites, as I'm a huge fan of writing, storytelling and narration. One of my adventures was placed 4th in whole Poland, in competition on official D&D site for (at that time) D&D 3e.

I just accept that DDO isn't a storytelling game. It's action adventure on D&D 3.5 rules with great use of player skills, acitve combat and many other unique factors, not copied to date in any MMO. I accept it, and even roleplay in DDO with a group sometimes! It's the best MMO for true roleplaying, even with it's hack n slash nature, because of... instances. No moron using emoticons and all that talk will destroy your experience, if you won't invite him to play with you.

And DDOs integrated voice chat system help even more. While it's a game desinged for action and hack 'n slash stories, it's still D&D, and you have tools to roleplay better than in most other games. Heck, you even have the opportunity to roleplay without distractions. Something that no WoW, LotrO or WAR RP-Server could guarantee .

Peace. We all have different tastes. If you seek storytelling and RP quests, I don't think you'll find anything which could outdo DDO anyway - to date. To date, every MMO is just hack 'n slash, or even worse - kill 10 rats. DDO is not "kill 10 rats" game at least. And has dev team really dedicated to keep it all D&D and as close to ruleset as possible and still fun.

PS: I understand your frustration. You wanted to see something like Baldurs Gate or Plancsape: Torment, probably. But no one did it in MMO to date. Just wait for it, I bet that if the same team will be working on DDO 2 maybe few years from now, they'll find a way to do it. Turbine is really unique thinkers. Creating an MMO on D&D ruleset with all skills like jump, tumble, etc. is a HUGE task, and for a first try - Turbine did really better than we could expect. Look at WAR Online - it's just a copy of WoW. DDO at least is not.

Originally posted by Sarr

PS: I understand your frustration. You wanted to see something like Baldurs Gate or Plancsape: Torment, probably. But no one did it in MMO to date. Just wait for it, I bet that if the same team will be working on DDO 2 maybe few years from now, they'll find a way to do it. Turbine is really unique thinkers. Creating an MMO on D&D ruleset with all skills like jump, tumble, etc. is a HUGE task, and for a first try - Turbine did really better than we could expect. Look at WAR Online - it's just a copy of WoW. DDO at least is not.

Appolagize on the pen & paper thing... It took me as a surprise that a PnP D&D player actually could enjoy DDO :D Guess we indeed have different tasted :p

Hmm... Baldur's Gate in MMO... I'd love that. Or the Elder Scrolls for that matter (also a good single player RPG). To me, the closest thing to PnP RPG's so far is LotRo, though I play it with interfalls (approx 2 months on, 1 month off), to keep it interesting...

I enjoyed D&D great game to play for about 3 months then its off to the next timeSink.

Anyone looking for an online dungeon crawler RPG should play D&D online. It has all of that and more. Some deep character building, casual or hard core game play, and decent graphics.

The problem with this game is its not a real mmorpg. It is just an online RPG that should really not cost 15 bucks a month for. If it was 10 dollars a month I would say its worth trying, because its in the same category as Phantasy star Universe. Except with a bit more content and support. The game is solid for what it is but I would not call it a diamond that has been forgoten. I would say its more like a old song that people will probably like listening to once in a while but eventually just forget.

My favorite piece of this game was the dungeons, dungeons with real traps and secret doors, no running through, it's a thinkers dungeon crawl.

No MMO's can touch that.

Originally posted by tinywulf

My favorite piece of this game was the dungeons, dungeons with real traps and secret doors, no running through, it's a thinkers dungeon crawl.

No MMO's can touch that.

Very well said, its a Dungeon crawler but its not an mmorpg.

Originally posted by Brixon

If the game had a large open world set in Forgotten Realms, it would have been a much bigger success.

Aye, if it had been a large open world with the Forgotten Realms IP I would be be playing this game. I love the AI, the combat system, and the fact that a lot of the quests involve puzzle solving. I am also a long term player of PnP D&D ( been a DM since 1983 ).