MMORPG.com Community Blogger Inktomi analyzes some recent comments from Cryptic Studios' Bill Roper about "teh bar? in MMOs.

I really coulnd't pass up writing about Bill Roper and the challenge will be to keep to my word and stay completely ambigous or in short term un-opinionated.

Bill Roper is Executive Producer at Cryptic Studios who are soon to be releasing the new Super-Hero MMORPG Champions Online. In his latest interview with Gamasutra he states the having an MMO try to hit the 11 million mark is way out of realistic conception. Mr. Roper says the 300,000 subs is a more realistic goal when creating an MMO, "I don't think any game at Blizzard, we never sat around and said, 'Oh, we're going to sell six million copies of the game.'"

"No, that's one," he says. "That's one game that's done that. No one else in the West has been even close. And I think it's challenging from the standpoint that gets looked at as an expectation or a goal to hit. It's a totally ridiculous goal to try to be hitting -- 'Oh, we're gonna go build an MMO that's going to compete with that.'." - Gamasutra

Read the blog.

Did he set this bar for failed Hellgate ?

Originally posted by stine96

Did he set this bar for failed Hellgate ?

Ouch, Failgate was really fun to play but nothing many ppl would pay for.
Would they have done it like Guildwars it may have stayed longer.

I think the author did not stay neutral.  I also think that setting the bar for your game vs setting the bar for subscription numbers are two different things.

You can have high quality expecations for your game and yet still be realistic that you are not going to get 11,000,000 subscribers.  Bill Roper is correct in thinking this way.  A good western game is very very lucky to get 500,000 subscribers.  Blizzard is a different beast altogether (they are benefitting from the synergies of the warcraft franchise and their international fame).  They also put a LOT of money into marketting.

I don't think Bill Roper is saying 'we set the bar low for the game'.  But all of my friends who work on the MMO industry have stated that any sane business model aims for the 300,000 to 500,000 mark.  If they get more that is great.  To discredit him for being a sane business man does not do him service.

I also found it great that he seems to have learned from his past mistakes.  These are mistakes he is less apt to make in the future.  Many MMO companies seem to be fine with repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

At first I was not looking forward to Champions Online at all.  Now I will be picking it up and trying it out.

Originally posted by stine96

Did he set this bar for failed Hellgate ?

Jawdropping,

I'm pretty sure he's also worked on some very successful franchieses.
 

Originally posted by Isaralas

Originally posted by stine96

Did he set this bar for failed Hellgate ?

 

Jawdropping,

I'm pretty sure he's also worked on some very successful franchieses.
 

Just a game called Diablo1&2 he worked on. Nothing big yanno, though people like to point out the failures in one another before any of the good comes out. The guy is an iconic legend in gaming. Some just mumble half-assed stuff and have no clue . 

 I want to thank the MMORPG staff for headlining todays post, I was very surprised. I also appreciate all the comments from the members too, any constructive criticism is welcome.

As far as the subject of investors is concerned, I can totally agree with Nevulus comment on the blog:

      I also want to point out that investors is what makes these little virtual worlds go round and some of the best ones were started in someone garage or college dorm room. (Google!) And when your in front of these 6 year olds making a pitch for the deal that might take you into a critical developement phase you are  praying to the Almight God that they say yes. None of these games on this website can run without A) our money and B) startup capital. Everything costs, especially in businesses that sometimes are just a bunch of ideas rolling around someones head.

Look, heres an example of good work gone bad, remember Duke Nukem' Forev'? Take-Two is now sueing the developers for 12 million dollars. 3D Realm sold the title to Take-Two and then never delivered. No game and a 12 million dollar loss, if you were an investor wouldn't you cringe? 

Play safe,

Ink

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Isaralas

Originally posted by stine96

Did he set this bar for failed Hellgate ?

 

Jawdropping,

I'm pretty sure he's also worked on some very successful franchieses.
 

 

Just a game called Diablo1&2 he worked on. Nothing big yanno, though people like to point out the failures in one another before any of the good comes out. The guy is an iconic legend in gaming. Some just mumble half-assed stuff and have no clue . 

out of curiousity, what EXACTLY did he do on all of the above-mentioned products?

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Isaralas

Originally posted by stine96

Did he set this bar for failed Hellgate ?

 

Jawdropping,

I'm pretty sure he's also worked on some very successful franchieses.
 

 

Just a game called Diablo1&2 he worked on. Nothing big yanno, though people like to point out the failures in one another before any of the good comes out. The guy is an iconic legend in gaming. Some just mumble half-assed stuff and have no clue . 

 

out of curiousity, what EXACTLY did he do on all of the above-mentioned products?

Dungeon design, from what i can remember he was/is doing the same thing in champions online

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Isaralas

Originally posted by stine96

Did he set this bar for failed Hellgate ?

 

Jawdropping,

I'm pretty sure he's also worked on some very successful franchieses.
 

 

Just a game called Diablo1&2 he worked on. Nothing big yanno, though people like to point out the failures in one another before any of the good comes out. The guy is an iconic legend in gaming. Some just mumble half-assed stuff and have no clue . 

 

out of curiousity, what EXACTLY did he do on all of the above-mentioned products?

his wiki entry lists this:
 

Blackthorne (1994) - Music
Warcraft: Orcs & Humans (1994) - Producer, Voiceover, Documentation
Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness (1995) - Design, Narration, Voiceover, Documentation
Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal (1996) - Executive Producer, Story Consultant, Narration, Voiceover
Diablo (1996) - Producer, Voice Production, Casting & Directing, Story, Voiceover, Documentation, Strike Team
StarCraft (1998) - Producer, Voiceover, Documentation, Strike Team
StarCraft: Brood War (1998) - Executive Producer, Voiceover, Documentation
Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition (1999) - Producer
Diablo II (2000) - Senior Producer, Voice Casting, Voiceover, Strike Team
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction (2001) - Global Launch Team, Strike Team
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos (2002) - Voiceover, Strike Team
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne (2003) - Voiceover
Hellgate: London (2007) - CEO
Champions Online (2008) - Design Director
 

That asswipe is going to run Cryptic into the ground.

The linked Gamasutra interview is VERY interesting. 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4026/the_hardwon_wisdom_of_bill_roper.php

Excellent insights into things that most gamers don't even know exist about development.

Love him or hate him, the guy Knows game dev top to bottom, every level.

Originally posted by Fumbles

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Isaralas

Originally posted by stine96

Did he set this bar for failed Hellgate ?

 

Jawdropping,

I'm pretty sure he's also worked on some very successful franchieses.
 

 

Just a game called Diablo1&2 he worked on. Nothing big yanno, though people like to point out the failures in one another before any of the good comes out. The guy is an iconic legend in gaming. Some just mumble half-assed stuff and have no clue . 

 

out of curiousity, what EXACTLY did he do on all of the above-mentioned products?

his wiki entry lists this:
 

Blackthorne (1994) - Music
Warcraft: Orcs & Humans (1994) - Producer, Voiceover, Documentation
Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness (1995) - Design, Narration, Voiceover, Documentation
Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal (1996) - Executive Producer, Story Consultant, Narration, Voiceover
Diablo (1996) - Producer, Voice Production, Casting & Directing, Story, Voiceover, Documentation, Strike Team
StarCraft (1998) - Producer, Voiceover, Documentation, Strike Team
StarCraft: Brood War (1998) - Executive Producer, Voiceover, Documentation
Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition (1999) - Producer
Diablo II (2000) - Senior Producer, Voice Casting, Voiceover, Strike Team
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction (2001) - Global Launch Team, Strike Team
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos (2002) - Voiceover, Strike Team
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne (2003) - Voiceover
Hellgate: London (2007) - CEO
Champions Online (2008) - Design Director
 

ok, 1994 - 2003 looks good, this looks like a solid timeline. many of these titels are topgames, but most in time, he just was the "voice over guy.." lol. 

2003 - 2007 .. this are 4 years, he gets a CEO position and the result is... well ... a disaster. now he is at cryptic, yesterday they pushed again the release date back to autumn 09... besides this: ATARI (publisher for champions online) sold their european publishing rights to namco-bandai (14th may 09).

i really dislike SOE productions.. (DC Online) but who know maybe we see, in the future, bigger changes in champions online and a good game turns in to a failure.

Bill Roper's comments are anything but inspiring. His comments are reminiscent of those comming out of Perpetual Entertainment prior to its demise.

Roper makes me want to rush out the day Champions Online launches to buy anything but Champions Online.

This type of attitude in the Cryptic studio does not bode well for the future of Star Trek Online either.
 

Originally posted by Fumbles

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Isaralas

Originally posted by stine96

Did he set this bar for failed Hellgate ?

 

Jawdropping,

I'm pretty sure he's also worked on some very successful franchieses.
 

 

Just a game called Diablo1&2 he worked on. Nothing big yanno, though people like to point out the failures in one another before any of the good comes out. The guy is an iconic legend in gaming. Some just mumble half-assed stuff and have no clue . 

 

out of curiousity, what EXACTLY did he do on all of the above-mentioned products?

his wiki entry lists this:
 

Blackthorne (1994) - Music
Warcraft: Orcs & Humans (1994) - Producer, Voiceover, Documentation
Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness (1995) - Design, Narration, Voiceover, Documentation
Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal (1996) - Executive Producer, Story Consultant, Narration, Voiceover
Diablo (1996) - Producer, Voice Production, Casting & Directing, Story, Voiceover, Documentation, Strike Team
StarCraft (1998) - Producer, Voiceover, Documentation, Strike Team
StarCraft: Brood War (1998) - Executive Producer, Voiceover, Documentation
Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition (1999) - Producer
Diablo II (2000) - Senior Producer, Voice Casting, Voiceover, Strike Team
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction (2001) - Global Launch Team, Strike Team
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos (2002) - Voiceover, Strike Team
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne (2003) - Voiceover
Hellgate: London (2007) - CEO
Champions Online (2008) - Design Director
 

i agree with the writer .he was not even in the team that made the wow .how can he speculate on that game?? moreover i dont think a game can survive with merely 30,000 subscribers .and lets say if he is expecting those numbers and numbers are far greater?? will we see server crashes and so on??that would be disastrous!!!

Some, point to Bill Roper's "iconic" industry image with a sense of awe and wonder. From looking at his wiki resume, I see a guy with a lot of voiceover experience and a failed game when he was put in charge.

Someone's supposed iconic standing means little compared with results. Look at the industry "legend" Richard Garriott and his famed Tabula Rasa.

It's not that he's "setting the bar for mmos", it's that he's setting the bar for the game he's working on! That's perfectly valid. So, the title is inflamatory for no reason. He's saying, "we're hoping to get about 300k subscribers". He's not saying, "this game will be the standard by which all other games will be measured". Because that standard has already been set. And like it or not, it's not SWG. [Pre or Post anything]

I just really don't see anything being able to compete with WoW for another good five to ten years. Maybe, after a lot of things in the world calm down, a bit, [The bad economy, gamers getting older, Jonus Brothers being forgotten, etc.] then a game can come along and do nearly as well. However, in this current climate, it'd be increasingly hard for a game to actually compete. The masses from WoW want QUALITY and POLISH. So, a game that's rushed to launch with bugs and instability, and only some of its bells and whistles, will not even be able to touch World of Warcraft's toes. That's where things stand.