Originally posted by Rydeson

     Actually there are a number of games that have grown or remain constant over the years..  We are entering a new era of mmo's and people are ready for something new..  Obviously you are because you're here looking for a new game..  I find it somewhat ironic that a fanbois of Eve, is on another website LOOKING..   That is like a married man claiming love to his wife while standing inside a "chicken ranch" looking at the menu.. lmaoooo

    (YELLING)  I love Eve, it rocks.. It's the best sci fi game ever.. It's a success..  blah blah blah..   ( mumbling) btw, when does another game come out I'm bored with Eve...... lol 

     Maybe I should just wait for Blizzards new MMO to hit the shelves.. Rumor has it, it's going to be sci-fi PvE style.. I bet it attracts over 5 million in the first year... lmaooo

I am in no way looking for a game to replace the two I play. I enjoy discussing MMO topics with fellow fans of the genre and like reading on news of New games. If Anything when a New game comes out I take it on as my third MMO. I never Ever stop playing Eve Its always a game im subbed to and it's been that way since I started.

You seriously shouldn't assume to know me or anyone else on these forums, it makes you look like an ass tbh.

Also you should check the number bud, only WoW and eve have had steady growth since release. Unless you actually count F2p games, if so Ill toss Dofus into that group as well.

And yes to the above poster if a MMO survives more then 11 years it's a success. the game turns a nice profit for EA, so Does DAoC and Eve is the most successful of the bunch.

Yeah Pvp focused MMos can succed, I wish people on this forum didnt consider MMOs a failure because they didnt like the game. It's sad really.

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by Rydeson

     Actually there are a number of games that have grown or remain constant over the years..  We are entering a new era of mmo's and people are ready for something new..  Obviously you are because you're here looking for a new game..  I find it somewhat ironic that a fanbois of Eve, is on another website LOOKING..   That is like a married man claiming love to his wife while standing inside a "chicken ranch" looking at the menu.. lmaoooo

    (YELLING)  I love Eve, it rocks.. It's the best sci fi game ever.. It's a success..  blah blah blah..   ( mumbling) btw, when does another game come out I'm bored with Eve...... lol 

     Maybe I should just wait for Blizzards new MMO to hit the shelves.. Rumor has it, it's going to be sci-fi PvE style.. I bet it attracts over 5 million in the first year... lmaooo

 

I am in no way looking for a game to replace the two I play. I enjoy discussing MMO topics with fellow fans of the genre and like reading on news of New games. If Anything when a New game comes out I take it on as my third MMO. I never Ever stop playing Eve Its always a game im subbed to and it's been that way since I started.

You seriously shouldn't assume to know me or anyone else on these forums, it makes you look like an ass tbh.

Also you should check the number bud, only WoW and eve have had steady growth since release. Unless you actually count F2p games, if so Ill toss Dofus into that group as well. You might want to look at MMOcharts.. Wow and Eve are NOT the only 2 games that have shown growth or remained constant..   Runescape, FF,  Tibia, CoH  come to mind

And yes to the above poster if a MMO survives more then 11 years it's a success. the game turns a nice profit for EA, so Does DAoC and Eve is the most successful of the bunch.  I take it you call EQ1 successful in today's market?  Eve hasn't had any competition yet or been on the market long enough.. I suspect soon as a decent space mmo comes out.. Eve goes bye bye..

Yeah Pvp focused MMos can succed, I wish people on this forum didnt consider MMOs a failure because they didnt like the game. It's sad really.  And once again another poster jumps to comclusions.. What did you say above about ASSUMING?  oh.. makes you look like an ASS..  I believe I posted that in my view, that any game that "underachieves" it's potention is a FAILURE..

 

Have a nice day :)

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by Rydeson

Most PvP style games FAIL..   If JGE is to succeed and last longer then a few years with BIG numbers, they need to supply good PvE content..  However, that is easier said then done..  In the holy Dev bible is "The book of easy" as with learning MMO 101, you'll come to find out that the easiest and CHEAPEST games to design are those based around PvP or RvR..  This is because they require little to no PvE storyline, quest and content..  It takes many more employees to design and maintain a good PvE mmo then a PvP style one..

So.. one must ask themselves when playing PvP style of games..  Do you really want to trust a company that took the easy way out to make a quick buck, or do you want to support a company that focuses are quality instead?   Something to think about

Gotta love this guy.....

PVE = quality, PVP = easy money, easy way out!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't you ask the guys that made UO, Eve or DAoC if they took the easy way out.

They released more content and features for the players to mess with then Any Pve themepark Ever.

Pvp keeps people playing, Pve gets boring and after a while your stuck waiting for new content to arive until you unsub.

I personally like a mix of both but to say Pvp focused games have no content and an easy way out is wrong

 

Ha Ha Ha..  DAoC was a joke of a game as far as I'm concern.. I couldn't stand it after 3 months.. lol   DAoC peaked in Summer of 02 at 250,000 and a 2 years later started to drop like a prom dress.. Latest report shows it below 50,000 subs = FAIL FAIL..

UO.. same thing.. peaked about 250,000 and dropped like a brick a couple years later.. FAIL   Now  what is your best example of success?  OH.. Eve?  Ha Ha Ha.. give me a break.. Eve has a monopoly on Sci Fi space mmo currently and all they can muster up is 250,000 subs..  I'm sure as soon as another sci fi space game comes out that is even 1/2 way decent, Eve's subs will drop as well..   I tried Eve and found it boring as hell before the trial offer expired..

But as you say.. PvE gets borning.. So tell me genius.. Name me a PvP game that has 11 million subs and has lasted longer then 4 years..   I'll be waiting for your reply genius :)

It seems you already found your game, please keep playing that one and leave us alone :p

 p.s. This game you like so much also has alot of PvP content and the PvP servers there are the most popular ( at least in europe ), so ... pwnd?

WoW has alot of PvP content?   hmmmmm really?  You must mean bg's, arenas and wintergrasp?  Actually genius.. 95% of WoW data bank and coding is PvE content, and without it WoW doesn't survive on the limited PvP content..   That is a SIMPLE FACT..

But we'll see what happens with JGE.. If they ignore PvE content and try to survive on PvP content like EvE has.. It's going to be a struggle just to stay afloat..  SWTOR claims to have a huge storyline with PvE content..  Postponing launch dates doesn't say much either.. Not good for business..  Can you imagine if the automakers delayed their line up of cars 6 months or longer.. YEP.. NOT going to happen, cause they know damn well how "normal" business works..  But then we're dealing with the cyber world of gaming where normal laws and rules dont' apply..

I know from my perspective.. my "hype" level as dropped for this game over the past year, and I see their website hype rating is dropping as well..  hmm   NOT GOOD..  

Originally posted by Rydeson

WoW has alot of PvP content?   hmmmmm really?  You must mean bg's, arenas and wintergrasp?  Actually genius.. 95% of WoW data bank and coding is PvE content, and without it WoW doesn't survive on the limited PvP content..   That is a SIMPLE FACT..

But we'll see what happens with JGE.. If they ignore PvE content and try to survive on PvP content like EvE has.. It's going to be a struggle just to stay afloat..  SWTOR claims to have a huge storyline with PvE content..  Postponing launch dates doesn't say much either.. Not good for business..  Can you imagine if the automakers delayed their line up of cars 6 months or longer.. YEP.. NOT going to happen, cause they know damn well how "normal" business works..  But then we're dealing with the cyber world of gaming where normal laws and rules dont' apply..

I know from my perspective.. my "hype" level as dropped for this game over the past year, and I see their website hype rating is dropping as well..  hmm   NOT GOOD..  

I'll tell ya there are people thinking this is supposed to be Eve with twitched based combat then actually know what this game is about. Eve does not have a healthy player driven econ because if it did then GM's would not have to regulate it. It's all an  illusion with a grindfest thrown in for the masochistic.

ND has said from the start that the focus was combat in big battles but for some reason every one thinks JGE should Eve's economy. Well guess what it can't because if Eve's system and specifically the total loss on death is used in JGE the Eve system breaks the econ. Ya that is right. because in JGE "you will die a lot" a quote from the devs. So what this means is people won't give a good god dam about your manufactured parts because they will lose it at close intervals, so they will just buy the cheap vendor parts or what ever parts are available that are close to the vendor price. You see if you institute total loss on death the econ becomes price fixed. The econ becomes broken. So all you Eve fanboys can go back to Eve and play your precious econ game cause it aint happening here.

And you Rydeson why don't lower your rating to 0, cause you are not the target market sorry. It is a twitch-skill-based space flight simulator action mmo not a pve wow clone. Good god can you people wake up. JGE is the best game ever to come down the pipe and you all are stuck in the past. This is not your game if you are not looking to prove your skill in pvp and bit of pve on the side. 

This game is for the new generation of space pilots who want fast action and a great combat flight simulator engine to prove their skill in and collect intell on enemy movements and sabotage the supplies of parts for building stations and attack and defend territory. This game is for the skilled pilots and the strategic thinkers. We need this game, but the game does not need you if you want another Eve.

O and by the way JGE got nominated for best in show at E3 so I doubt you know what you are talking about Rydeson. I have seen the game and it really is better than anything we have ever played.

Originally posted by Rydeson

Can you imagine if the automakers delayed their line up of cars 6 months or longer.. YEP.. NOT going to happen, cause they know damn well how "normal" business works..  But then we're dealing with the cyber world of gaming where normal laws and rules dont' apply..

Uhm... Correct me if im wrong, but isn't there that whole "bailout" thing going on because they are epic failing?  Maybe if they did delay a car model and made something consumers really wanted, they would actually sell cars!

but yes, if thats how a "normal" business works, I want my mmos working totally different.

Delayed release can mean very positive things, depending on what the developer does in that time, and how close it was to meeting the launch as is.  I'd rather give them more time to get it together and be awesome, then have another AoC, WAR, or Darkfall. (played all but the last, but i glanced into what happened with darkfall and it makes me laugh).

     OMG.. got nominated..??  Do you have any clue how many mmo's have bragged they got nominated in years past and SUCKED..     I think you'll find that JGE will not turn out to be your lil playground of "massive" space twitch base combat you seek, but good luck to you my friend.. lol    But hey.. if you believe your going to be in huge (20 people are more) space dog fights all day long.. keep dreaming...    Planetside fanbois believed that too.. lmaooooooo

Originally posted by Rydeson

     OMG.. got nominated..??  Do you have any clue how many mmo's have bragged they got nominated in years past and SUCKED..     I think you'll find that JGE will not turn out to be your lil playground of "massive" space twitch base combat you seek, but good luck to you my friend.. lol    But hey.. if you believe your going to be in huge (20 people are more) space dog fights all day long.. keep dreaming...    Planetside fanbois believed that too.. lmaooooooo

I hate you for calling me out on the E3 brag but as for JGE's success and your attitude towards it, well it's not really sound reasoning. I mean Planetside is run by SOE lol. SOE is the most hated game developer/publisher in the history of mmo's for a reason. They are bone-heads through and through and don't get gaming or gamers. They suck! 

In contrast ND does not and I have loved them ever since I played JGc.

We shall see whether JGE brings the heat or not but it seeems so far the people that have played it really liked it even in it's current uncompleted state. I think JGE will be taking home the gold this year for best mmo ever created.

Your argument = epic fail sauce!

Comparing JGE/JGC and EVE is like comparing 1 state with 40-50 counties to 50 states with 40-50 counties each.

Eve is massive 100x times the size of JGE/JGC has lots of content both PvE and PvP but has a massive learning curve and time requirement before you can really do anything useful,hence thr reason the game is stagnating and those 250000 subs cut that  by 2/3 i had 3 accounts myself and I was not alone so the number is more like 60,000-70,000 actual physical players 20% who are farmers.

JGC/JGE cannot have a game of the size of EVE  because the servers could never keep up with the calculatons involved in a space fighter combat game,hell EVE chokes when there are 200 pilots in a sector even if they are not shooting at each other.

I am a eve beta player over 5 years and remember mining for weeks for my first cruiser,now you have to invest 3-4 months before you can fight or mine or trade because the size and number of people of all types who will try to shoot you up. I am also a lev 50 Optimus player in JGC

In EVE PvP is a question of who has the better equipment or numbers pure and simple.

In JGC and I hope JGE the equipment is the same but the combat skill of the pilots determines the outcome of any PvP,so  skill at flying like in Falcon 4 will determine who wins and who dies. Players used to only point and click flying will die a lot.

Yeah. The bigger ship with the best equipment always wins in eve. There is no solo players. They are a myth. Anyone thinking of trying eve should move along, it is in fact stagnating. Retlaw you are a tool.

As a seasoned gamer who started with SWG and then branched of to WoW and Eve around the same time, I really feel that Eve is an inferior game. What keeps eve up is the social aspect of corporations and the alliances. I have been playing eve for close to 4 years now without ever cancelling my account due to my skills leveling. The game's pvp system really suffers from slow and repetitive gameplay. I am in a 0.0 alliance, so most of my pvp is in somewhat large groups and half the times, I really do not know what the hell is going on. It is extremely slow and very boring. The one aspect of eve that can be really unique is the economy, but even the economy is broken, due the mega sizes of missions, and the drops obtained and salvaging, the economy in EVe is really 30% mission generated and 70% player.

if any mmo would like to stay competitive and grow in time, they have to balance both PVP and PVE, truth is, most gamers are loyal to whatever current game they are playing. Most of them will jump to the new game in hopes of something new, and better, but will return once their expectations are not meant. Another key aspect is leaving corporations or guilds of long time friends. It can be very difficult to not play with those personalities on vent or TS.
 

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by reanor

EVE is definitely a great game of its kind. I've enjoyed overall probably a year of gaming and I still have an account active and play it from time to time since the day it was released.

You're of course right about differences between these 2 games. What I am concerned about is that it has been proven by the multiple similar genre games that space MMOs, or say sci-fi MMOs don't last long due to specific reasons. One of those reasons imho is when developers is not successful in delivering to players the promised content. Another reason is a simplicity of the game. We have to remember that JGE won't appeal to the mass gamers market, it will only appeal to gamers who likes space flight and space combat sims. While there will be some 'crafting' and 'trading' going on its a known fact that JGE will be focused on space flight combat most of all.

When game takes a specific focus the result of it must appeal to wide audience otherwise game may not meet the ends and run out of budget. I really want JGE to succeed because except SWG: Lightspeed there wasn't really any space MMO focused on space combat. We can still speak about EVE, but EVE -IS- a different game. So when I heard and learned some details about JGE I thought to myself - "Finally something new".

I really want this game to succeed and be very fun. But in order for it to be fun "Codemaster" devs need to understand that they won't be able to win wide audience of gamers by only spectacular graphics and go there and kill some ships missions. I've read some reviews and it seems that at the time of release some of the features promised may not be implemented. Thats of course fine. Even if JGE at the time of release will still only be a number of ships to grind for and missions to do that grind through, I will still enjoy it for a while.

I hope that Codemasters will be able to provide enough new content to keep the core group of JGE players interested. Because as I've mentioned already space flight sims only appeal to a specific group of members. And that group will become even smaller after players will realize that flying the ship will require a skill. I can already see people hyped up joining and excited about PvP potential in space and dropping off due to requirements of specific reflexes and attentiveness. Thats the main point.

Codemasters needs to keep this important fact in mind. Having PvE content as exciting as PvP will be very important to keep those gamers' subs who are not very skillful in flight sim PvP. Even by looking at EVE number of subs its clear that these type of games are not for everyone. The number of players on the server at any time grew more than 2x times since the release in 1997. In order for number of subs to stay constant and even grow Codemasters will have to make some real effort to bring more people on and not only those who likes to show how skillful they are with game controllers.

I can tell you for sure that if EVE didn't have so simple interface to control ships the number of subs would remain low and thats considering the fact that EVE is sold worldwide. Codemasters really need to be careful about what their doing. Driving a car in Auto Assault from NCSOFT did require a skill as well. But you know how the game ended.

 

Most PvP style games FAIL..   If JGE is to succeed and last longer then a few years with BIG numbers, they need to supply good PvE content..  However, that is easier said then done..  In the holy Dev bible is "The book of easy" as with learning MMO 101, you'll come to find out that the easiest and CHEAPEST games to design are those based around PvP or RvR..  This is because they require little to no PvE storyline, quest and content..  It takes many more employees to design and maintain a good PvE mmo then a PvP style one..

So.. one must ask themselves when playing PvP style of games..  Do you really want to trust a company that took the easy way out to make a quick buck, or do you want to support a company that focuses are quality instead?   Something to think about

Hell, I 'd be all over a PvP game with a great story line,  some awesome PvP focused questing ( say bounty hunting as a silly example), and some thought out zone control, in depth crafting etc for content.. However, it would need stable servers, somewhat balanced classes, and crowd control that doesnt render me unable to play my character while he is painfully decimated to oblivion.

Sounds simple, its amazing no one can pull it off... perhaps its more difficult than we think...

Though surely not as difficult as creating trash mobs in a dungeon only you and  your group get to enter, that leads you to the same boss you have been trying to kill for the last three weeks in between lock out timers, or not as simplistic as doing quests to get 9 more boar livers (again) from boars, who apparently have no livers... Or the content that involves an end boss, bent on taking over.. the world, lands, town... whatever.. or was wrongfully punished for... bleh...

Something to think about for certain...

Space-Sim lover reporting in.

I've played all of the simulations... Elite, Star-Wars, WingCommander, Privateer, Freelancer, X and even stuff like Dark Star One or simulations like Orbiter etc.

Then I've played Homeworld, before i eventually found EvE Online.

EvE Online I expected to be a simulator like all the others mentioned above, but it wasn't and I thought: WTF'?

But after some 10 days of my trial-time I got used to the system and having played Homeworld before, the game actually got me hooked for a few years.

I tried JumpGate, but I thouht to myself, that there's nothing I can't get from Freelancer aswell. you got to know, that I was playing Freelancer in multiplayer-mode on "public" servers and did alot of gang vs. gang-warfare there allready.
And tbh, I don't pay a monthly subscription fee for playing PvE-content.

I'm watching JGE and Black Prophecy for some time allready, and I'll give it a try, but I'm much more waiting for Infinity to get released sometime... hopefully.

---

For the question of comparison? No I don't think you can compare JGE or Black Prophecy to EvE Online. EvE Online is just a totally different approach and is made for player-driven politics and economy, not for PvE-content.

I really think that the whole farming instances for loot thing is really getting old. The next mega MMO is going to incorporate instances with a very unique crafting system. A very good MMO has to have multiple avenues of entertainment and try to diversify many different components of MMO. Pve, Pvp, and a Player ran economy are all very important areas to cover. If an mmo decides it wants to just only focus on one, than players will get bored and move on to other games. If they cover all 3, when the player gets bored with pvp, they will try pve, or the economy game, then go back to pvp and likewise. Leaveing the player in the game with a new challenge, rather than them quitting for another.

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by Rydeson

Most PvP style games FAIL..   If JGE is to succeed and last longer then a few years with BIG numbers, they need to supply good PvE content..  However, that is easier said then done..  In the holy Dev bible is "The book of easy" as with learning MMO 101, you'll come to find out that the easiest and CHEAPEST games to design are those based around PvP or RvR..  This is because they require little to no PvE storyline, quest and content..  It takes many more employees to design and maintain a good PvE mmo then a PvP style one..

So.. one must ask themselves when playing PvP style of games..  Do you really want to trust a company that took the easy way out to make a quick buck, or do you want to support a company that focuses are quality instead?   Something to think about

Gotta love this guy.....

PVE = quality, PVP = easy money, easy way out!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't you ask the guys that made UO, Eve or DAoC if they took the easy way out.

They released more content and features for the players to mess with then Any Pve themepark Ever.

Pvp keeps people playing, Pve gets boring and after a while your stuck waiting for new content to arive until you unsub.

I personally like a mix of both but to say Pvp focused games have no content and an easy way out is wrong

No it isn' it is actually a pretty accurate statement, why generate content if all people want to do is kill each other. You really want an Arena game.... not an MMO.

Originally posted by Isane

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by Rydeson

Most PvP style games FAIL..   If JGE is to succeed and last longer then a few years with BIG numbers, they need to supply good PvE content..  However, that is easier said then done..  In the holy Dev bible is "The book of easy" as with learning MMO 101, you'll come to find out that the easiest and CHEAPEST games to design are those based around PvP or RvR..  This is because they require little to no PvE storyline, quest and content..  It takes many more employees to design and maintain a good PvE mmo then a PvP style one..

So.. one must ask themselves when playing PvP style of games..  Do you really want to trust a company that took the easy way out to make a quick buck, or do you want to support a company that focuses are quality instead?   Something to think about

Gotta love this guy.....

PVE = quality, PVP = easy money, easy way out!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't you ask the guys that made UO, Eve or DAoC if they took the easy way out.

They released more content and features for the players to mess with then Any Pve themepark Ever.

Pvp keeps people playing, Pve gets boring and after a while your stuck waiting for new content to arive until you unsub.

I personally like a mix of both but to say Pvp focused games have no content and an easy way out is wrong

 

No it isn' it is actually a pretty accurate statement, why generate content if all people want to do is kill each other. You really want an Arena game.... not an MMO.

I love both pve and pvp. I'm glad JGE has both and I would not like it as much if it did not have both.

And no most pvp games do not fail. PvP is as fun if not more fun than pve. The reason any game fails is because of lack of vision and implementation of features that are not fun or take the fun away from other things in game. SOE games are good examples of how to make a game with both lame pvp and pve and ruining of fun features. SOE games generally lack vision and/or quality. You must focus test! You can not trust your game is good until it is proven and testers give positive feed back as to it's fun factor. JGE devs are doing extensive focus testing before the general public get there hands on it and that is a sign of a good developer. I don't think we have anything to worry about.

if your talking about real space dogfighting I think you have to be talking about PVE, and that's something EVE has never really done very well. EVE combat is more like being a commander that responds to information about the battlefield. The opportunity to really dogfight or experience the game from that POV is very limited. I think this goes back to the fact that is very difficult to predict exactly how two players in real time and without gravity will respond to one another. It's even less likely it will be fun.

With PVE many of these problems are solved and players can enjoy space dogfights that have action and depth. This is something EVE will never deliver and something I hope JGE does and does well.

I'll give it a go I think.

If it turns out to play like Planetside, then that's fine. If it turns out to be a big PVE adventure universe to explore then that's fine also.

Eve while very engrossing was never fun. I'd like something with a bit more gameplay if possible.