At the same time shutting it down at 98% is a dick move, but welcome to the business world.

I don't understand why people keep calling this a dick move. It's not. That dick move happen 4 years ago when people started a project based on what's not belong to them. Yeah, I am calling the developers of this project pulled a dick move. Why? When you are using materials belong to somebody else, no matter what intention or motive, you need to ask them first. If you want people to respect you, you have to show them respect. You are being a dick to them and expect them to respect you? WTF? Moreover, Square-Enix also have limited resources to handle this, they just can't respond to any threat, they have to be able to make sure it's a real threat to their IP before they make a move.

For people who gave out game mod examples. This is entirely different from a mod because you need to own the original game to play the mod. This is the modification of the game it self and then redistribute. If you make some changes in Warcraft 3 and then repackage the game, call it Warcraft 3 sequence and then let people download the whole game. Do that and see what Blizzard will do to you. See the different between a mod and this? You can download mod all you want but if you don't own the original game, you can't play, period.

Originally posted by Thachsanh

At the same time shutting it down at 98% is a dick move, but welcome to the business world.

 

I don't understand why people keep calling this a dick move. It's not. That dick move happen 4 years ago when people started a project based on what's not belong to them. Yeah, I am calling the developers of this project pulled a dick move. Why? When you are using materials belong to somebody else, no matter what intention or motive, you need to ask them first.

For people who gave out game mod examples. This is entirely different from a mod because you need to own the original game to play the mod. This is the modification of the game it self and then redistribute. If you make some changes in Warcraft 3 and then repackage the game, call it Warcraft 3 sequence and then let people download the whole game. Do that and see what Blizzard will do to you. See the different between a mod and this? You can download mod all you want but if you don't own the original game, you can't play, period.

Lol it was clearly meant as a dick move, you would have to be blind to not see this. I'm also not saying the guys making this game were not dicks, because clearly they were.

Seriously watching and waiting on a project near completion and stoping it 2% from completion, destroying all hopes and dreams of playing the game, is INDEED a dick move.

you guys will argue about anything.

Originally posted by HDomni

Originally posted by Thachsanh

At the same time shutting it down at 98% is a dick move, but welcome to the business world.

 

I don't understand why people keep calling this a dick move. It's not. That dick move happen 4 years ago when people started a project based on what's not belong to them. Yeah, I am calling the developers of this project pulled a dick move. Why? When you are using materials belong to somebody else, no matter what intention or motive, you need to ask them first.

For people who gave out game mod examples. This is entirely different from a mod because you need to own the original game to play the mod. This is the modification of the game it self and then redistribute. If you make some changes in Warcraft 3 and then repackage the game, call it Warcraft 3 sequence and then let people download the whole game. Do that and see what Blizzard will do to you. See the different between a mod and this? You can download mod all you want but if you don't own the original game, you can't play, period.

Lol it was clearly meant as a dick move, you would have to be blind to not see this. I'm also not saying the guys making this game were not dicks, because clearly they were.

Seriously watching and waiting on a project near completion and stoping it 2% from completion, destroying all hopes and dreams of playing the game, is INDEED a dick move.

you guys will argue about anything.

exactly what i was saying.

Originally posted by HDomni

Originally posted by Thachsanh

At the same time shutting it down at 98% is a dick move, but welcome to the business world.

 

I don't understand why people keep calling this a dick move. It's not. That dick move happen 4 years ago when people started a project based on what's not belong to them. Yeah, I am calling the developers of this project pulled a dick move. Why? When you are using materials belong to somebody else, no matter what intention or motive, you need to ask them first.

For people who gave out game mod examples. This is entirely different from a mod because you need to own the original game to play the mod. This is the modification of the game it self and then redistribute. If you make some changes in Warcraft 3 and then repackage the game, call it Warcraft 3 sequence and then let people download the whole game. Do that and see what Blizzard will do to you. See the different between a mod and this? You can download mod all you want but if you don't own the original game, you can't play, period.

Lol it was clearly meant as a dick move, you would have to be blind to not see this. I'm also not saying the guys making this game were not dicks, because clearly they were.

Seriously watching and waiting on a project near completion and stoping it 2% from completion, destroying all hopes and dreams of playing the game, is INDEED a dick move.

you guys will argue about anything.

Well, I edited my post abit after you reply. Well, as a company, they can only dedicate a limited resources to this. They can't just respond to any threat to their IP, for a very popular IP it would not be possible. They can only respond to a verified real threat hence the 98%. Do you seriously thing they dedicate people to watch and monitor progress of every of these fan work? I don't think so, they will probably just go like this, "hey, there's this fan game, it's about to be released soon, we need to stop them before they do that". They probably don't even know any detail about the project until they started that case.

Originally posted by Thachsanh

Originally posted by HDomni

Lol it was clearly meant as a dick move, you would have to be blind to not see this. I'm also not saying the guys making this game were not dicks, because clearly they were.

Seriously watching and waiting on a project near completion and stoping it 2% from completion, destroying all hopes and dreams of playing the game, is INDEED a dick move.

you guys will argue about anything.

 

Well, I edited my post abit after you reply. Well, as a company, they can only dedicate a limited resources to this. They can't just respond to any threat to their IP, for a very popular IP it would not be possible. They can only respond to a verified real threat hence the 98%. Do you seriously thing they dedicate people to watch and monitor progress of every of these fan work? I don't think so, they will probably just go like this, "hey, there's this fan game, it's about to be released soon, we need to stop them before they do that". They probably don't even know any detail about the project until they started that case.

Well, considering the developers said they had been at work on this for years, I think SE would have had enough time to stop it at 50%, 60%, 80% etc. Why 98%? Yeah they were waiting for it, you're being to sarcastic with my words ( I don't believe they was watching it 24/7 but they had to be keeping a close eye).

Closing it down at 98% was to send a message, I think that message is clear.

Originally posted by HDomni

Originally posted by Thachsanh

Originally posted by HDomni

Lol it was clearly meant as a dick move, you would have to be blind to not see this. I'm also not saying the guys making this game were not dicks, because clearly they were.

Seriously watching and waiting on a project near completion and stoping it 2% from completion, destroying all hopes and dreams of playing the game, is INDEED a dick move.

you guys will argue about anything.

 

Well, I edited my post abit after you reply. Well, as a company, they can only dedicate a limited resources to this. They can't just respond to any threat to their IP, for a very popular IP it would not be possible. They can only respond to a verified real threat hence the 98%. Do you seriously thing they dedicate people to watch and monitor progress of every of these fan work? I don't think so, they will probably just go like this, "hey, there's this fan game, it's about to be released soon, we need to stop them before they do that". They probably don't even know any detail about the project until they started that case.

Well, considering the developers said they had been at work on this for years, I think SE would have had enough time to stop it at 50%, 60%, 80% etc. Why 98%? Yeah they were waiting for it, you're being to sarcastic with my words ( I don't believe they was watching it 24/7 but they had to be keeping a close eye).

Closing it down at 98% was to send a message, I think that message is clear.

people who steal our shit get fucked? thats a good message honestly and if you cry about it you are dumb

Originally posted by Carl132p

Originally posted by HDomni

Originally posted by Thachsanh

Originally posted by HDomni

Lol it was clearly meant as a dick move, you would have to be blind to not see this. I'm also not saying the guys making this game were not dicks, because clearly they were.

Seriously watching and waiting on a project near completion and stoping it 2% from completion, destroying all hopes and dreams of playing the game, is INDEED a dick move.

you guys will argue about anything.

 

Well, I edited my post abit after you reply. Well, as a company, they can only dedicate a limited resources to this. They can't just respond to any threat to their IP, for a very popular IP it would not be possible. They can only respond to a verified real threat hence the 98%. Do you seriously thing they dedicate people to watch and monitor progress of every of these fan work? I don't think so, they will probably just go like this, "hey, there's this fan game, it's about to be released soon, we need to stop them before they do that". They probably don't even know any detail about the project until they started that case.

Well, considering the developers said they had been at work on this for years, I think SE would have had enough time to stop it at 50%, 60%, 80% etc. Why 98%? Yeah they were waiting for it, you're being to sarcastic with my words ( I don't believe they was watching it 24/7 but they had to be keeping a close eye).

Closing it down at 98% was to send a message, I think that message is clear.

 

people who steal our shit get fucked? thats a good message honestly and if you cry about it you are dumb

Somebody got it : )

If SE felt so threatened by this, they should have just bought it.

Now, it doesn't make sense buying your own IP, but, buying their work.

Lol they didn't feel threatened  they just protected their IP. Thats like someone stealing my paintball gun, upgrading it and selling it back to me, It doesn't work like that at all im gonna punch the guys teeth down his throat and take it back.

Originally posted by miropovo

How is the SWG emu allowed to bein development? I'm assuming they approached SOE and LucasArts and agreed not to make a profit off the game.

Are you kidding me? People have been begging SOE to bring back classic SWG servers for years and every time SOE even bothers to reply to these requests at all the anwser comes back the same: NO. The people who run the emu servers for the game don't have SOE's premission, I'm sure they never even asked because they already knew what SOE would say. Instead they told SOE to go F themselves and went ahead and made the server. How did they get away with it? Because its not illegal. As long as they make no money off of it and do not use any of the server-side software created by SOE then its entirely legal. Go to any emu server website and check their FAQ, it explains in great deatil why SOE can't shut them down.

When companies send out these "cease and desist" letters it is often a bluff. They do not have any real legal power to stop people and they know it. But if they send a threatening letter and ACT like they can stop you many people will be fooled. On the other hand if you call their bluff, they back down 90% of the time since a lawsuit would do more harm to their reputation than they can afford even if they win. I used to run a website about Sega back in the day and I got a few cease and desist letters about things I posted to my site and I ignored every single one of them. Nobody ever sued me. I even later found out one guy who sent me a cease and desist letter was using a fake name when he did it. He runs one of those japanese cantoon porn websites now and probably ignores all the cease and desist letters people send him.

Cease and desist letters are frequently ignored on the internet because it is so often just a bluff. Sega (of Europe) tried to shut down YTMND once and YTMND replied by posting their letter right on their site and laughing at Sega. More recently some girl in California died in a car accident and pictures of the accident leaked onto the internet. The family of the girl hired this total joke of a company called "Net Defender" somethong or other to get the pictures removed. Net Defender charged them $4000 to send out cease and desist letters but nothing else happened. The pictures can still be found in many places on the internet.

These guys who made this game need to call Squaresoft's bluff. Relese the game. The worst that Square can do is threaten their web hosts and whatever place hosts the download of the game to remove the files. But once the game is out there, its out there. Dozens of other websites will laugh at Square and their letters and continue to host the game, the same way the SWG emu servers laugh at SOE. The same way you can still download any SNES or Genesis game on your computer.

I'm sure a bunch of Square fanboys and internet lawyers are going to reply to this and be all: "BAAAAWWW!!! You can't do that! That would infringe on Square's IP!" Does Fan Fiction infringe on their IP too? No. If I write a fan fiction using characters from a Square game then its legal as long as I don't try to SELL it for MONEY. If I sell it and make money off of it then it becomes illegal. As long as I make no money, its legal.

This game is the exact same thing is fan fiction, just in the form of a game. Square can sue them and take them to court but if the creators didn't make any money and Square didn't lose any money then Square will get nothing from a lawsuit. The creators of this game may have a hard time finding web hosts willing to host a download of the game because of paranoia that Square will harass them to death, but even in a worst case scenario the game will still be available via torrent, just like all the emulators of SNES and Genesis games that the big game companies have been trying to get shut down for the last ten years.

Its a bluff people. Tell Square to put their letter where the sun doesn't shine and release the game.

Originally posted by Raltar

I'm sure a bunch of Square fanboys and internet lawyers are going to reply to this and be all: "BAAAAWWW!!! You can't do that! That would infringe on Square's IP!" Does Fan Fiction infringe on their IP too? No. If I write a fan fiction using characters from a Square game then its legal as long as I don't try to SELL it for MONEY. If I sell it and make money off of it then it becomes illegal. As long as I make no money, its legal.

This game is the exact same thing is fan fiction, just in the form of a game. Square can sue them and take them to court but if the creators didn't make any money and Square didn't lose any money then Square will get nothing from a lawsuit. The creators of this game may have a hard time finding web hosts willing to host a download of the game because of paranoia that Square will harass them to death, but even in a worst case scenario the game will still be available via torrent, just like all the emulators of SNES and Genesis games that the big game companies have been trying to get shut down for the last ten years.

Its a bluff people. Tell Square to put their letter where the sun doesn't shine and release the game.

Heh, I think this guy is working for Square-Enix!! :D He's trying to setup for a fatality kill. Heheheh. If you think this game is exact the same thing as fan fiction then I suggest you go back and look what does fan fiction means. Fan fictions are things you created by your self inspired by the original contents. The developers of this game took the game ROM which contents codes wrtten by Square, art assets made by Square, modify it, and slap their name on it and want to release it. If you think it's the same as fan fiction, you are insane. You try to take the Warcraft III CD, modify the game scripts, slap your name on it, and give the game CD out to people to download as a sequence to Warcraft III in your name and see what Blizzard can do to you.

If the developers of this game release it, they will get sue not just by Square-Enix, they would get sue by Nintendo as well since the technology to create the ROM and the development tools have to come from Nintendo. Developers has to lisense them for a huge amount of money. Although, if they don't try to sell it, Nintendo will probably let them by.

PS: The developers are knowing they are doing something illegal as well as it stated by them "ROM altering and modification is illegal and the game has been made without the consent of Square-Enix. Should Square Enix perceive the project as a threat...Kajar Laboratories will immediately cease operation on the project and comply with Square Enix's orders". Heh, so now the order came and they have to keep their word or face the consequences.

Originally posted by Starz

If SE felt so threatened by this, they should have just bought it.

Now, it doesn't make sense buying your own IP, but, buying their work.

Why should they buy something that belongs to them in the first place? That makes no sense. It's essentially rewarding people for stealing their IP for their own game.

If anything, the fans who programmed this game should look at it as a double learning experience-- they programmed a game, and got first-hand exposure to the real business world, where some folks don't take too kindly to their property being used for your own personal gain.

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by miropovo

How is the SWG emu allowed to bein development? I'm assuming they approached SOE and LucasArts and agreed not to make a profit off the game.

 

Are you kidding me? People have been begging SOE to bring back classic SWG servers for years and every time SOE even bothers to reply to these requests at all the anwser comes back the same: NO. The people who run the emu servers for the game don't have SOE's premission, I'm sure they never even asked because they already knew what SOE would say. Instead they told SOE to go F themselves and went ahead and made the server. How did they get away with it? Because its not illegal. As long as they make no money off of it and do not use any of the server-side software created by SOE then its entirely legal. Go to any emu server website and check their FAQ, it explains in great deatil why SOE can't shut them down.

When companies send out these "cease and desist" letters it is often a bluff. They do not have any real legal power to stop people and they know it. But if they send a threatening letter and ACT like they can stop you many people will be fooled. On the other hand if you call their bluff, they back down 90% of the time since a lawsuit would do more harm to their reputation than they can afford even if they win. I used to run a website about Sega back in the day and I got a few cease and desist letters about things I posted to my site and I ignored every single one of them. Nobody ever sued me. I even later found out one guy who sent me a cease and desist letter was using a fake name when he did it. He runs one of those japanese cantoon porn websites now and probably ignores all the cease and desist letters people send him.

Cease and desist letters are frequently ignored on the internet because it is so often just a bluff. Sega (of Europe) tried to shut down YTMND once and YTMND replied by posting their letter right on their site and laughing at Sega. More recently some girl in California died in a car accident and pictures of the accident leaked onto the internet. The family of the girl hired this total joke of a company called "Net Defender" somethong or other to get the pictures removed. Net Defender charged them $4000 to send out cease and desist letters but nothing else happened. The pictures can still be found in many places on the internet.

These guys who made this game need to call Squaresoft's bluff. Relese the game. The worst that Square can do is threaten their web hosts and whatever place hosts the download of the game to remove the files. But once the game is out there, its out there. Dozens of other websites will laugh at Square and their letters and continue to host the game, the same way the SWG emu servers laugh at SOE. The same way you can still download any SNES or Genesis game on your computer.

I'm sure a bunch of Square fanboys and internet lawyers are going to reply to this and be all: "BAAAAWWW!!! You can't do that! That would infringe on Square's IP!" Does Fan Fiction infringe on their IP too? No. If I write a fan fiction using characters from a Square game then its legal as long as I don't try to SELL it for MONEY. If I sell it and make money off of it then it becomes illegal. As long as I make no money, its legal.

This game is the exact same thing is fan fiction, just in the form of a game. Square can sue them and take them to court but if the creators didn't make any money and Square didn't lose any money then Square will get nothing from a lawsuit. The creators of this game may have a hard time finding web hosts willing to host a download of the game because of paranoia that Square will harass them to death, but even in a worst case scenario the game will still be available via torrent, just like all the emulators of SNES and Genesis games that the big game companies have been trying to get shut down for the last ten years.

Its a bluff people. Tell Square to put their letter where the sun doesn't shine and release the game.

Common misconception from people that do not understand Intellectual Property law. If I don't make money, I can do it if I want to.

Uh, no, making money has nothing to do with it.

You can think of it like this. If you're on vacation, I can live in your house if I want to right? You're not there so it won't make any difference right? As long as I don't charge anyone rent, and I don't make any money, that would be ok right?

The answer is no. It's your house. You get to say who stays there and when, nothing to do with making money. IP works the same way.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

Common misconception from people that do not understand Intellectual Property law. If I don't make money, I can do it if I want to.

Uh, no, making money has nothing to do with it.

You can think of it like this. If you're on vacation, I can live in your house if I want to right? You're not there so it won't make any difference right? As long as I don't charge anyone rent, and I don't make any money, that would be ok right?

The answer is no. It's your house. You get to say who stays there and when, nothing to do with making money. IP works the same way.

Thank you. I'm glad someone explained this.

Emu servers are still illegal and in violation of copyrights and IP rights no matter what their flimsy FAQ's might say. If they haven't been shut down yet, it's because SOE or whatever other company either hasn't gotten around to suing to force them to shut down, or they don't know about a particular server.

Profit doesn't matter with regard to IP or copyright. The only difference is how accommodating the owners of the IP are with people who use their original ideas for their own derivative works. For example, Anne Rice is notorious for actively shutting down ALL fan fiction and fan art based on her books. She doesn't give a damn if you make money or not -- she wants no part of it, and fiercely defends her copyrights. On the other hand, someone like J.K. Rowling will typically only intervene when someone tries to make money off her work, just due to the sheer size and typical age of the Potter fandom.

In the end, though, theft is still theft, no matter if you make money from it or not. The fans who created this Chrono game did so on the backs of Square Enix's original works. You can't do that and not expect a company to defend themselves.

I understand copyright laws and whatnot, but this is just pathetic how paranoid some companies can be. This was nothing more than a fan-project, nobody was going to be making any money off of it.

Originally posted by UWNVME

I understand copyright laws and whatnot, but this is just pathetic how paranoid some companies can be. This was nothing more than a fan-project, nobody was going to be making any money off of it.

That doesn't matter. Profit or not, in order to protect their rights, creators of original works have to defend their copyrights and IP. It's not about paranoia. It's about maintaining control of their own works.

If Square Enix hadn't shut both this and the previous Chrono fan game down, they could be seen as giving permission for derivative works in the Chrono universe. They obviously have no intention of doing that no matter what some fans might want, so they protect their rights. Folks might not like it, but that's how the real business world works. They're not being mean to their fans. If anything, they're protecting them. If they didn't shut these fan games down, then anyone could make games off their works, and possibly even include malicious code or otherwise rip people off. By asserting their rights to their own work, Square Enix is doing the right thing.

IF square enix were smart, they'd just review it and if it is worth while, option it, repackage it and sell it.